Help me run Bastion of Broken Souls!

[Ursus the Grim]

A player in my group found the BoBS module lying around and decided she wanted to play it. As a completely green DM, she didn't think she should try an 18th level adventure. I was willing and so was the other primary DM, so we rolled for it. The fates decreed that I was to be saddled with this burden (I rolled 20, he rolled 1 :smallbiggrin: )

Looking through it, I realize its a little rough for the unoptomized. I like the primary hook, but that means an EL +3 devil/demon is going to solo out one character and either disappear with him or completely wreck the party.

I also see Ashardalon in there, and cringe at using the deus ex machina that will be required.

My questions are these:
How should I prepare the party for this? Only one is used to high level play but they still want to run it. What edges can I give them without spoiling the surprises that are coming?

How the hell do I convert the Cathezar to 3.5?

What do I do with the PC who is abducted? I am considering letting him play Nurn, but I always hesitate to replace characters.

How do I help my players optimize their characters without throwing too many splatbooks at them? Right now, I am most concerned with guiding a core bard in the right direction, but I know the other players will need help.

I feel the Druid has the best chance of staving off the Cathezar, and also fits being the blood of Dydd. Unless a cleric is played, he's likely the party's only chance at reincarnation. Most of the players are unaware of the "take some gold and pay the nearest church" mentality, and so still fear death greatly. Can I minimize fatality in this without holding their hand?


The party is so far known to include. . . .


Druid MoMF/Warshaper (good start).
Bard/? (This is the aforementioned module owner with poor experience optimizing.)

The other two PCs are unknown at this time.

[Eldariel]

How should I prepare the party for this? Only one is used to high level play but they still want to run it. What edges can I give them without spoiling the surprises that are coming?

*shrug* You could run a combat-heavy one-shot with them with the characters before the actual game to let them test their muscle a bit and see how the game functions. Maybe leave a buff or two away if truly necessary.


How the hell do I convert the Cathezar to 3.5?

It's fairly straight-forward. She's an unique creature so you should more or less use her as is. DR needs updating; I'd say the DR should be ~10-15/Good (and maybe "and Adamantine"; neither Cold Iron or Silver makes sense due to her unique nature). Some of her is usable as is though her buff suite is of course less useful in 3.5.

If you get her Quicken Spell-Like Ability-feat on her Greater Teleport (you'd need to increase her caster level to 22 for that but that shouldn't be much of a problem), you can still do the same approximation of offense as suggested in the book (obviously 3.5 Haste doesn't allow for the extra actions she needs to teleport and attack). You might want to give her some other buffs like Shield of Faith and Bull's Strength to compensate for the lack of numbers from Haste (3.0 Haste was obviously insane).


What do I do with the PC who is abducted? I am considering letting him play Nurn, but I always hesitate to replace characters.

That's a good option. You could also write him up some story of his life in captivity that you can pass him and have him read while the others formulate a plan to save him or you could just have him there. *shrug* Do what you'd do in case of character death without immediate, but rather postponed access to resurrection.


How do I help my players optimize their characters without throwing too many splatbooks at them? Right now, I am most concerned with guiding a core bard in the right direction, but I know the other players will need help.

Just...do it? I mean, give them small pointers on what might or might not be a good idea and what things might be unnecessary in their char sheets and so on. Try to have them form a somewhat competent party (urge at least one member to become an arcane caster so they don't miss out on a whole slew of vital spells) with clear party roles and stuff. And if somebody has some idea that can't be fully realized in Core, make a limited expansion to out-of-core stuff for whatever he needs.


I feel the Druid has the best chance of staving off the Cathezar, and also fits being the blood of Dydd. Unless a cleric is played, he's likely the party's only chance at reincarnation. Most of the players are unaware of the "take some gold and pay the nearest church" mentality, and so still fear death greatly. Can I minimize fatality in this without holding their hand?

Tell them to get Scrolls of Raise Death/similar and tell the Bard to learn Use Magic Device. Overall, point out that death is fairly common on these levels due to the lethality of the offense available at this point, and it'd be prudent to have as many classes as possible with some sort of an access to resurrection magic (might wanna open the curtains to non-core a bit to allow access to Revivify & Last Breath [Spell Compendium] as spells and scrolls, which would make fatalities in won fights or successful bails a bit less likely).

And try to make them realize just how big a deal 18th level characters are and that they probably have tons of friends in high places and turning to an outside party for resurrection should always be an option too.

Oh, and don't forget to point out that running is always an option if things seem to be going pearshaped; Teleportation is awesome like that.

[Ursus the Grim]

*shrug* You could run a combat-heavy one-shot with them with the characters before the actual game to let them test their muscle a bit and see how the game functions. Maybe leave a buff or two away if truly necessary.

Ah. That's a good idea. Actually, when I mentioned it to the other DM (whom I use for a sounding board), he volunteered to throw together a one-shot while I work on the module. Thanks.


It's fairly straight-forward. She's an unique creature so you should more or less use her as is. DR needs updating; I'd say the DR should be ~10-15/Good (and maybe "and Adamantine"; neither Cold Iron or Silver makes sense due to her unique nature). Some of her is usable as is though her buff suite is of course less useful in 3.5.

If you get her Quicken Spell-Like Ability-feat on her Greater Teleport (you'd need to increase her caster level to 22 for that but that shouldn't be much of a problem), you can still do the same approximation of offense as suggested in the book (obviously 3.5 Haste doesn't allow for the extra actions she needs to teleport and attack). You might want to give her some other buffs like Shield of Faith and Bull's Strength to compensate for the lack of numbers from Haste (3.0 Haste was obviously insane).

I actually wasn't that knowledgeable about the metagame in 3.0, so a few of the "fixes" for broken spell have completely escaped me. I guess the conversion should do some of the nerfing for me, and I hesitate to up her CL. If adjustments to 3.5 make her weaker, I don't think the solution is to make her stronger in order to negate some of the nerf.


That's a good option. You could also write him up some story of his life in captivity that you can pass him and have him read while the others formulate a plan to save him or you could just have him there. *shrug* Do what you'd do in case of character death without immediate, but rather postponed access to resurrection.

Hm. See, character death doesn't occur that often in my campaigns, though there have been extremely close call. Suppose that makes it my fault. Regardless, I'm a bit inexperienced with it. The postponement could take some time as they travel to retake him so I don't think I can just have him sit there, and I also don't think I can write well enough to keep him entertained.


Just...do it? I mean, give them small pointers on what might or might not be a good idea and what things might be unnecessary in their char sheets and so on. Try to have them form a somewhat competent party (urge at least one member to become an arcane caster so they don't miss out on a whole slew of vital spells) with clear party roles and stuff. And if somebody has some idea that can't be fully realized in Core, make a limited expansion to out-of-core stuff for whatever he needs.

I guess its that simple. I quoted this part to highlight that I am not forbidding non-core material. I am actually encouraging it. Its just most of the players are not familiar nor comfortable with what's out there. I played a swordsage and just got puzzled looks as I used the maneuvers.


Tell them to get Scrolls of Raise Death/similar and tell the Bard to learn Use Magic Device. Overall, point out that death is fairly common on these levels due to the lethality of the offense available at this point, and it'd be prudent to have as many classes as possible with some sort of an access to resurrection magic (might wanna open the curtains to non-core a bit to allow access to Revivify & Last Breath [Spell Compendium] as spells and scrolls, which would make fatalities in won fights or successful bails a bit less likely).

And try to make them realize just how big a deal 18th level characters are and that they probably have tons of friends in high places and turning to an outside party for resurrection should always be an option too.

Oh, and don't forget to point out that running is always an option if things seem to be going pearshaped; Teleportation is awesome like that.

I guess I'll remind them that characters die while we make the characters instead of just before we start playing. "Your characters will most likely die" is not a good way to open a dungeon. Unless its Tomb of Horrors.

Another problem is the party. We, as a whole, do not run often. Last night I played a venerable druid with an ape companion and my friend ran a level 4 war and magic cleric. We cleared out a level 3 dungeon as a pair of 4s. Not only that, but we walked into probable death knowing it was near suicide. Highlights include an ogre and a very young black dragon. Most notably, my Druid was at three of thirteen hit points with two spells left. Ape was at half. Cleric was almost at full. We suspect our elderly guide is actually the BBEG. I use Sense Motive when we confront him. Instead of "he's lying" the DM says "you feel a wave of terror come over you, as if you were staring into the eyes of doom incarnate!". After springing a pair of his own pet scorpions on him, druid climbs up a wall as the ape grapples and pins him. Cleric proceeds to deposit his greatsword in the prone old man repeatedly until dead. The DM has him dissipate into a vanilla shadowy form and flee because, apparently, he had two more forms but we weren't supposed to get to those for at least two more dungeons.

Our group loves to take on overwhelming threats, and if there's a failure its often pinned on the DM throwing death at the players. I guess we're bad sports in that regard. :smallfrown:

[Eldariel]

I actually wasn't that knowledgeable about the metagame in 3.0, so a few of the "fixes" for broken spell have completely escaped me. I guess the conversion should do some of the nerfing for me, and I hesitate to up her CL. If adjustments to 3.5 make her weaker, I don't think the solution is to make her stronger in order to negate some of the nerf.

Eh. She isn't overpowering. It doesn't make much sense for her to jump in and not do anything; I personally vastly prefer the given "Teleport in and attack in the surprise round, then roll for Initiative"-method given in the module (rewards them for preparing if they do manage to detect the sensor, for example) which requires some method of teleporting as swift action (since 3.5 Haste does not work that way) or some higher level spell nonsense (which wouldn't be cool). So I'd make that single adjustment (raise CL to 22 to legally take Quicken, then take Quicken) to maintain the feel the original version has; only use extra buffs if need be. Her attacks aren't really CL-based so the CL-increase wouldn't do much beyond making Quicken a legal feat option for her. And Multidexterity is an obsolete feat (rolled into Multi-Weapon Fighting in 3.5) so she conveniently has a free feat slot too.


I guess its that simple. I quoted this part to highlight that I am not forbidding non-core material. I am actually encouraging it. Its just most of the players are not familiar nor comfortable with what's out there. I played a swordsage and just got puzzled looks as I used the maneuvers.

Well. Act as the wizened old guide gently prodding people in the right direction; let them tell you what manner of a character they want to play and see where it goes from there. They don't, after all, need to know all the sources; just the ones that concern their character.

The Bard, for example, should probably get some feats from non-Core sources (Song of the Heart [Eberron Campaign Settings] comes to mind; perhaps Haunting Melody too). A Core Bard can be good but they need quite a bit of mastery to make use of the pseudo-high level spells they get and their skill points to make up for what they lack in raw power.


I guess I'll remind them that characters die while we make the characters instead of just before we start playing. "Your characters will most likely die" is not a good way to open a dungeon. Unless its Tomb of Horrors.

Another problem is the party. We, as a whole, do not run often. Last night I played a venerable druid with an ape companion and my friend ran a level 4 war and magic cleric. We cleared out a level 3 dungeon as a pair of 4s. Not only that, but we walked into probable death knowing it was near suicide. Highlights include an ogre and a very young black dragon. Most notably, my Druid was at three of thirteen hit points with two spells left. Ape was at half. Cleric was almost at full. We suspect our elderly guide is actually the BBEG. I use Sense Motive when we confront him. Instead of "he's lying" the DM says "you feel a wave of terror come over you, as if you were staring into the eyes of doom incarnate!". After springing a pair of his own pet scorpions on him, druid climbs up a wall as the ape grapples and pins him. Cleric proceeds to deposit his greatsword in the prone old man repeatedly until dead. The DM has him dissipate into a vanilla shadowy form and flee because, apparently, he had two more forms but we weren't supposed to get to those for at least two more dungeons.

Our group loves to take on overwhelming threats, and if there's a failure its often pinned on the DM throwing death at the players. I guess we're bad sports in that regard. :smallfrown:

Don't remind them about anything specific for that module; just remind them that "This is a high level campaign - it is possible to prepare for character death, and character death is always a risk, so dooo eeeet!" It's not so much that character death is inevitable as the fact that it's possible to do something about it and thus it'd be silly to not come prepared.

And running...well, every encounter in the module can be defeated so better just hope they fight well so they needn't run. That's always a possibility. And if it comes down to that, a gentle reminder that "Yeah, you're currently staring straight down Ashardalon's maw, all your allies have been turned into charcoal, you are barely standing and you have failed to make a meaningful dent into its hide with 10 turns of poking; you do still have your two legs and a Teleport scroll about you..." would probably drive the point home.

[Ursus the Grim]

And running...well, every encounter in the module can be defeated so better just hope they fight well so they needn't run. That's always a possibility. And if it comes down to that, a gentle reminder that "Yeah, you're currently staring straight down Ashardalon's maw, all your allies have been turned into charcoal, you are barely standing and you have failed to make a meaningful dent into its hide with 10 turns of poking; you do still have your two legs and a Teleport scroll about you..." would probably drive the point home.

Points taken and appreciated. Thank you.

In fact, I may want to phrase it that way. At the very least, pushing them to flee the Bastion would give them a reprieve and they wouldn't feel like "losing". I'm hoping one of them figures out that standing in the energy gives them fast healing too.

[Runestar]

If you aren't comfortable with running cathezar (and her cr is likely to be much lower given 3.5 cr guidelines), simply replace her with another appropriate cr'ed demon (such as the molydeus from fiendish codex, or a combination of weaker demons with combined EL of 19+).

[Ursus the Grim]

That's a pretty good idea, Runestar. My players aren't meta enough to have those stats memorized either, so the effect would be similar.

Something stood out to me about the Cathezar anyway. The module mentions that she takes the remains to her lair and then uses Raise Dead. But doesn't that fail if the spirit is unwilling? Wouldn't the spirit be unwilling to return to life weaker and in the possession of a devil?

Doesn't this tactic completely backfire and ruin the Cathezar's plan if the character has any common sense?

[Jacque]

I haven't read all of the above walls of texts, but I've run the Bastion of Broken Souls for my group and I have one single thing I want to point out:

When they go to the Cathezar's abode to rescue their abducted friend, there's a room with alot of chains on the walls which the Cathezar is able to control. That room made a quick TPK of my group and we had to rerun the scene.

Also, there's alot of encounters where the appearance of the Cathezar as an extra foe is enough to at least kill a partymember or two. Keep this in mind and decide from the beginning how hard you want to be on your players.

[Ursus the Grim]

Yeah, I noticed that room. Something like 35 chain rakes? Kinda ridiculous. Also, I don't think I'm going to throw in the Cathezar as an extra opponent at that one point, as I'm a bit of a softie. I don't think they'll have much trouble hurting Cathezar (Wild Shape Druid and a master thrower with 6 Holy Shuriken per turn as touch attacks), but she's going to put the hurt on right back, I suspect.

[Jacque]

If actually dealt with during a combat she isn't a problem. The problem is when the tough fighters and damage dealers are busy with Ashardalon's or that split personality demon guy's (just can't remember his name right now) minions, and the Cathezar pops in and full attacks and/or abducts the group's healer or wizard. It quickly turns a trash encounter to something very grim.

[Ursus the Grim]

I see. I'll keep that in mind. How much prep work do you think this requires? Most of what I've run I've had prescripted but all of the relevant information is already in the book. Aside from conversions, are there any blind spots in the book that I need to be aware of?

[Ursus the Grim]

Well, jeez. My dice suck, which is good for the party.

The party.

Cleric/Celestial Mystic
Bard/Seeker of the Song
Rogue/Thief Acrobat
Sorceror/Effigy Master with Legendary Bear Effigy
Nurn, Death Slaad Rogue

The Cathezar went after the bard and attempted the tail grab. She fumbled on the grapple roll, bard rolled a twenty. Next turn, repeated and knocked the bard unconscious. Before she can teleport, rogue hits her with an assassin's dagger. The DC to beat is 19, the Cathezar has a bonus of +25. . . . and fumbles again. They had dealt about 60 points of subdual damage and she had 190 left, and had already incapacitated one party member, and she died instantly. So now I've got to send in the Second String, a trio of Balors that will be, in some ways, easier to deal with.

The party has visited the Church of the Elements and is on their way to the Guild of Sleep, where they will learn of Ashardalon's location and how to gain access. Somehow they are about of third of the way through what was supposedly a fifteen hour adventure, with only 3 hours of gametime. I doubt they will go look for the Cathezar's lair, having killed her and pieced together most of the story already. Altogether, they aren't that bad off, but she would have wrecked them if it wasn't for that luck.