Ghost PC

[DonEsteban]

Hello playgrounders! One of my players wants to play a ghost. Probably a Master of the Unseen Hand. I'm unsure if I should allow it. The group is level 15+ and the other characters will probably be a druid, a gish, a mounted fighter, and a cleric if that matters.

I'm currently less afraid of his raw power (it's LA+5 after all), but mostly of his ethereal state. Perfectly suited for spying on everything, moving through my dungeons and enemy strongholds unimpeded (who installs permanent see invisible/walls of force in his castle?) and frustrating (i.e., killing) any opponents without magic and ghost touch weapons.

Do you have experience with ghost characters? Should I allow it? What else should I be afraid of? Why shouldn't I be afraid? How can I challenge him?

[Ranos]

At level 15, Ghosts can't do anything that a full caster can't replicate. Your ghost can spy, but they can go invisible, blink through walls, and also scry from half a plane across, or teleport through any dungeons.

At an earlier level, I wouldn't be so sure, but here ? He'll be fine.

[Jack_Simth]

At level 15, Ghosts can't do anything that a full caster can't replicate. Your ghost can spy, but they can go invisible, blink through walls, and also scry from half a plane across, or teleport through any dungeons.

At an earlier level, I wouldn't be so sure, but here ? He'll be fine.

If anything, he'll be underpowered, yes. A Ghost Ninja could be a problem, mostly due to the little issue that they can strike at people from the etherael without manifesting, but for the most part, it's less than what a Wizard of the level could do to your campaign.

[Lateral]

It would depend upon your party composition, of course, but with two tier 1s I don't think you'll have a problem.

[DonEsteban]

The difference is that unlike other abilities the ghost's ability is permanent.

[Ranos]

The difference is that unlike other abilities the ghost's ability is permanent.

Weaker, but permanent abilities do not trump powerful abilities that must be restored. This is true for the fighter, this is true for the warlock, and it is true for a ghost.

[Jack_Simth]

The difference is that unlike other abilities the ghost's ability is permanent.

Compare to the Third Eye Sense (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/universalItems.htm#sense), which lets you see and hear any known or obvious location, as a standard action, at will, on the scouting.

There's a Ghostform spell that'll let a Wizard become incorporeal, and have that issue as well.

Unless you regularly make lots of use of nonmagical foes, then it's not going to be a problem... and even if you do, it's still not going to be a problem, as all it'll do is make him consume less healing resources - after all, the *other* four party members don't have that bonus.

[Greenish]

The difference is that unlike other abilities the ghost's ability is permanent.Yeah, unlike (prepared) casters', who can pick new tricks each day.

As long as you can do something often enough, it doesn't matter a squat whether it's an infinite or a finite ability.

[Jack_Simth]

Yeah, unlike (prepared) casters', who can pick new tricks each day.

As long as you can do something often enough, it doesn't matter a squat whether it's an infinite or a finite ability.

Heh. Yes. A Sorcerer-15 can break a game more than most Whatever-5/Ghost-5/Master of the Unseen Hand-5's will.

[DonEsteban]

First of all, thanks for all your answers.

There's no question that a full caster is more versatile and I'm less concerned about the ghost's general power level. However, it's a rather old-fashioned adventure and I was considering to restrict scrying and teleporting anyway.

I certainly see you point, but it's a matter of scale. If a character wants to burn several mid-level spell slots to infiltrate a stronghold: okay, he's probably earned it. But just walking in and out there without a real chance to be noticed would be rather anticlimactic.

[Ranos]

That may be the problem, then. A dungeon crawl is just not going to happen at level 15+, and restricting scrying and teleporting won't do much to change that.

Is there any way you could drastically reduce the party's starting level, or is this an existing group ?

[Jack_Simth]

First of all, thanks for all your answers.

There's no question that a full caster is more versatile and I'm less concerned about the ghost's general power level. However, it's a rather old-fashioned adventure and I was considering to restrict scrying and teleporting anyway.

I certainly see you point, but it's a matter of scale. If a character wants to burn several mid-level spell slots to infiltrate a stronghold: okay, he's probably earned it. But just walking in and out there without a real chance to be noticed would be rather anticlimactic.
... Plane Shift (Cleric-5) will get you to the Ethereal. Teleport (Travel-5) will get you to a specific spot. You can see from the Ethereal to the Material, no problem. Then it's just a matter of getting back once you've found the precise spot in the fortress you're looking for. Study at lesuire, go back to the material plane, and teleport right on top of your goal.

Nothing above 5th level spells needed.

[DonEsteban]

Yeah, yeah, I know. *sigh

No, reducing the party level is not an option. I guess if worst comes to worst I'll have to assume that the baddies have at least a certain amount protection. Or let them succeed and send them an invisible stalker or ten. :sabine:

[Forged Fury]

... Plane Shift (Cleric-5) will get you to the Ethereal. Teleport (Travel-5) will get you to a specific spot. You can see from the Ethereal to the Material, no problem. Then it's just a matter of getting back once you've found the precise spot in the fortress you're looking for. Study at lesuire, go back to the material plane, and teleport right on top of your goal.

Nothing above 5th level spells needed.
Well, it does say that the Material Plane is "muted and indistinct" when viewed from the Ethereal, so I guess it depends on how you interpret that as the DM. I thought Shadowrun (3rd Edition maybe?) handled this pretty well with their Astral Plane. You were able to generally see the big picture around you, but most people were basically blurs and you definitely couldn't read anything. I would at least extend the inability to read stuff to how the Ethereal works in D&D. Need to take a look at the map showing the enemy's battle plan for an upcoming invasion? You gotta go Material for that. Granted, not a huge problem for a ghost, but it would force them to at least manifest, which would open them up to more potential danger.