Of wizards and spellbooks

[Kaeso]

We all know that the wizard is most likely the single most powerful class in 3.5e, but it seems he has a glaring weakness: his spellbook could be stolen, destroyed, get wet, get lost and who knows what. I'd like to know if there's a way to circumvent this issue, besides the eideitic(sp?) caster ACF from dragon magazine (since most DMs most likely won't allow it).

[Halae]

Simply put? write another spellbook. At that point, you only have to spend the gold for the pages you use up in writing the spells rather than paying someone for new spell knowledge - each page costs, I believe, 50 gold to utilize. that means a level 9 spell would only cost 450 gold to copy into a second spellbook - well within the realm of reason. You get several of those together and hide them where you can get to them as backups, and you suddenly have a very effective way of making sure you're never without. Even just carrying a single spellbook yourself and getting a party member to carry your second one makes sure that, unless the entire party loses their gear, you should always have one handy, despite the cost.

[Greenish]

Aureon's spellshard cares not for getting wet, and is in general much tougher than spellbooks. Normal spellshards are also decent backups.

If eidetic spellcaster isn't flying, spellhoarding dragonwrought kobold probably wouldn't, either, but I'll mention it for completeness' sake.

[Taelas]

Get two blessed books (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#blessedBook). 1000 pages at 50gp per page is 50,000 gold pieces, so they're an absolute steal at one-quarter that. Keep the spare in storage, preferably an extra-dimensional space.

[Talya]

It's 100gp per page. Which makes a blessed book an even better deal...

[Geigan]

Well Comp. Arcane has quite a few ways to protect your spellbook. Different materials plus, several spells like hardening make the thing pretty sturdy. Set an alarm on it to set off for anyone who touches it that doesn't speak the password, along with some magical traps as well to protect from anything to an annoying rogue, to vermin, to water damage. Keeping a backup also works and if it's a blessed book the cost of re-scribing everything is free.

[Gamer Girl]

We all know that the wizard is most likely the single most powerful class in 3.5e, but it seems he has a glaring weakness: his spellbook could be stolen, destroyed, get wet, get lost and who knows what. I'd like to know if there's a way to circumvent this issue, besides the eideitic(sp?) caster ACF from dragon magazine (since most DMs most likely won't allow it).

If your playing 3.5e you don't need to worry about anything, unless you have a old school DM and a group that likes the old school style of play.

3.5E is made to be especially easy on such things, and it would be blatantly unfair and wrong for a DM to ever, ever take away or even damage the wizard's spellbook. The same way a cleric will never loose their holy symbol and a melee type won't loose their weapon.

In 3.5E, it's against the game philosophy of most people: that the 'characters must have fun' and 'be always at least 50% of their full strength' at all times. No DM of this type of game would dare take away a wizards spell book and tell them to 'well just sit in the corner and not play until your character can get a new spellbook'.

And easy way to tell: Have you ever played an entire game session where any character lots their primary defining characteristic? For example, an archer that losses her bow and must be a 'warrior type' or and melee character that looses the use of their weapon hand or a character that is inflicted by blindness or a curse. Most games don't do this any more....

[Thrice Dead Cat]

To be fair, Gamer Girl, if the wizard player starts getting rude and flaunting his power, it may lead to a DM removing his strengths in an attempt to teach him a lesson. Is it a step overboard? Maybe, but this is assuming there wasn't a previous discussion out of character about that. Can it be remedied? Easily, both by the DM throwing him a new spellbook and the wizard waiting to level up and getting new spells or blowing a feat on Spell Mastery and having some spare spellbooks thrown around the planes for later, when the need arises.

[Geigan]

If your playing 3.5e you don't need to worry about anything, unless you have a old school DM and a group that likes the old school style of play.

3.5E is made to be especially easy on such things, and it would be blatantly unfair and wrong for a DM to ever, ever take away or even damage the wizard's spellbook. The same way a cleric will never loose their holy symbol and a melee type won't loose their weapon.

In 3.5E, it's against the game philosophy of most people: that the 'characters must have fun' and 'be always at least 50% of their full strength' at all times. No DM of this type of game would dare take away a wizards spell book and tell them to 'well just sit in the corner and not play until your character can get a new spellbook'.

And easy way to tell: Have you ever played an entire game session where any character lots their primary defining characteristic? For example, an archer that losses her bow and must be a 'warrior type' or and melee character that looses the use of their weapon hand or a character that is inflicted by blindness or a curse. Most games don't do this any more....
You're really taunting Murphy here.

[Dr.Epic]

You can tatoo the spells on your body. That's a variant in either Complete Arcane or Unearthed Arcana. Also there's a feat that allows you to prepare a certain number of spells without a spell book: if you're smart, you'll pick a few spells that'll allow you to escape and find a new one.

[Talya]

You can tatoo the spells on your body. That's a variant in either Complete Arcane or Unearthed Arcana. Also there's a feat that allows you to prepare a certain number of spells without a spell book: if you're smart, you'll pick a few spells that'll allow you to escape and find a new one.

By the way, I just noticed your avatar for the first time. Quite shiny. It's everything I ever...

[hoff]

If your playing 3.5e you don't need to worry about anything, unless you have a old school DM and a group that likes the old school style of play.

3.5E is made to be especially easy on such things, and it would be blatantly unfair and wrong for a DM to ever, ever take away or even damage the wizard's spellbook. The same way a cleric will never loose their holy symbol and a melee type won't loose their weapon.

In 3.5E, it's against the game philosophy of most people: that the 'characters must have fun' and 'be always at least 50% of their full strength' at all times. No DM of this type of game would dare take away a wizards spell book and tell them to 'well just sit in the corner and not play until your character can get a new spellbook'.

And easy way to tell: Have you ever played an entire game session where any character lots their primary defining characteristic? For example, an archer that losses her bow and must be a 'warrior type' or and melee character that looses the use of their weapon hand or a character that is inflicted by blindness or a curse. Most games don't do this any more....

Well, I once lost my spellbook on my abjurant champion, it was hell to get decent number of spells back (I did not have a backup). To be fair our cleric (focused on melee fighting) lost his +5 adamantine mace and his cleric powers too (not at the same time though, he got both back with some effort). The fighter archer lost his bow once. Yep, it was a pretty hardcore DMing. The sorcerer got off easy, he never lost anything beyond a couple of minor magic items.

I remember one time we needed some lich dust for a ritual, then we got some information on the city which pointed us at this cave. Once we got there we found a draco-lich, fun times. This other time we had to kill this vampire, we went scry and die tactics on him, but the bastard was the master of escape. It took us around 5 scry and die attempts to get to him (the dm even gave him a level up as he got XP every time he escaped)

[Tvtyrant]

If your playing 3.5e you don't need to worry about anything, unless you have a old school DM and a group that likes the old school style of play.

3.5E is made to be especially easy on such things, and it would be blatantly unfair and wrong for a DM to ever, ever take away or even damage the wizard's spellbook. The same way a cleric will never loose their holy symbol and a melee type won't loose their weapon.

In 3.5E, it's against the game philosophy of most people: that the 'characters must have fun' and 'be always at least 50% of their full strength' at all times. No DM of this type of game would dare take away a wizards spell book and tell them to 'well just sit in the corner and not play until your character can get a new spellbook'.

And easy way to tell: Have you ever played an entire game session where any character lots their primary defining characteristic? For example, an archer that losses her bow and must be a 'warrior type' or and melee character that looses the use of their weapon hand or a character that is inflicted by blindness or a curse. Most games don't do this any more....

No where in the rules does it say anything about this, and the topic has come up enough times on these forums that I doubt your ability to generalize personal experiences accurately. "Most games don't do this anymore..." is a blatant extrapolation from personal to general, and telling someone their experience will be the same as yours is false advertising.

[Taelas]

You're absolutely right about it being 100gp per page, my mistake.


If your playing 3.5e you don't need to worry about anything, unless you have a old school DM and a group that likes the old school style of play.
"Old school", is it? That's interesting. In my opinion, "old school" is of Gygaxian proportions, which this certainly is not.


3.5E is made to be especially easy on such things, and it would be blatantly unfair and wrong for a DM to ever, ever take away or even damage the wizard's spellbook. The same way a cleric will never loose their holy symbol and a melee type won't loose their weapon.
It would be generally unfair of the DM to do so for no reason, or without letting the player know out-of-character that he must take precautions against it. There are occasions which calls for it, though.


In 3.5E, it's against the game philosophy of most people: that the 'characters must have fun' and 'be always at least 50% of their full strength' at all times. No DM of this type of game would dare take away a wizards spell book and tell them to 'well just sit in the corner and not play until your character can get a new spellbook'.
There is such a thing as working under constraints. Telling the player to 'just sit in the corner' is spiteful and pointless. The player should have every opportunity to regain his spellbook, and a wizard is actually not completely helpless without the book. Wands and scrolls continue to work fine (and the latter can help him restart a spellbook). His familiar can still be of assistance, and the character himself have feats and skills which may be of use. Yes, a wizard without a spellbook is very weakened, but he is not useless.


And easy way to tell: Have you ever played an entire game session where any character lots their primary defining characteristic? For example, an archer that losses her bow and must be a 'warrior type' or and melee character that looses the use of their weapon hand or a character that is inflicted by blindness or a curse. Most games don't do this any more....
Yes, I have. They can be entertaining if done well, especially the boost in power once you finally regain your defining characteristic. (It is not an uncommon scenario to start players off as fighting slaves in an arena.)

[Greenish]

"Old school", is it? That's interesting. In my opinion, "old school" is of Gygaxian proportions, which this certainly is not.What, the old "guess what Gary is thinking"?

Oh, of course there's a sphere of annihilation in the statue's mouth, and it's so simple and obvious that you have to insert the dagger into the hole in the roof you didn't notice because you didn't look up.

:smallamused:

[AsteriskAmp]

What, the old "guess what Gary is thinking"?

Oh, of course there's a sphere of annihilation in the statue's mouth, and it's so simple and obvious that you have to insert the dagger into the hole in the roof you didn't notice because you didn't look up.

:smallamused:

I once had my players licking the darn thing and after half the party was gone they tried to keep inserting things in there to see what happened , in the process deaths also happened, this would have gone on forever until the remaining PC decided to sodomize the sphere for lack of a better description of what happened, in his defence he was the last one in the room and did it pretty much for the lulz.

It was on the second expedition that they managed to discover what the heck they were supposed to do, and then proceeded to die against Acerak since they kept trying to grapple him to perform Hamlet believing it to be an enchanted skull and not a demilich.

[bloodtide]

Well, in Old School D&D or any tough game, a Wizard would:

1.Always have at least one, if not two back up spellbooks of all types. It would have and exact copy of all the wizards spells.

2.You generally leave your real, important and primary spellbook at home. So that its very, very well protected.

3.You have separate home spellbook and traveling spellbooks. Your traveling spellbook is the one you take on adventures. It has just the spells you figure that you'd need for that adventure.

4.You'd even not carry your primary traveling spellbook, you'd leave that on your horse/mule or such, and again have it protected.

5.And as soon as you could, you'd put a copy spellbook in a Lemound's Secret Chest. This was the original idea behind the spell after all.

[Forbiddenwar]

5.And as soon as you could, you'd put a copy spellbook in a Lemound's Secret Chest. This was the original idea behind the spell after all.

Wondered how long it would take for this to be mentioned. Also, isn't there a spell you can cast on an object to summon it to you from all existence and time with a command word? I think the only way that spell doesn't work is if that object is in someone else's actual hands at that moment.

[Taelas]

Unfortunately, instant summons requires you to crush an expensive gem (1,000 gp), not merely say a word. But I believe that is the spell you were thinking of.

[faceroll]

{Scrubbed}

[Marnath]

It's 100gp per page. Which makes a blessed book an even better deal...

100gp per page to scribe a scroll to the book, or to replace a book from prepared spells in your head. Making a copy of an existing book only costs 50gp per page.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

Did you account for hardness? I mean, yeah, it's acid damage, but its, what 1d6 points of damage? His spellbook (by Complete Arcane) along with most of his other gear (magical stuff, most definitely) would have had hardness, meaning that, hey, guess what, that stuff probably survived!

EDIT: To be exact, you'd have to subtract hardness as per normal against the fog, then figure out how much damage the acid does. Each magic item would get a save against it each round, too. Is it a lot to keep track of? Hell yeah, but that doesn't mean it kills all his stuffs.

[Zaydos]

Another option is Lore Gem; Magic Item Compendium Pg 114; 7500 GP and takes up head slot (but MIC also has rules for adding common effects, i.e. Int enhancement, at a lower price), holds 30 spell levels and it also grants a +2 bonus on all knowledge checks.

[lightningcat]

When I've played a wizard, I've treated my spells just like I treat the info on my computer: multiple backup copies. Traveling spellbook with me (blessed book if possible), plus main spellbooks at home base, plus a vaulted copy.

[Marnath]

Did you account for hardness? I mean, yeah, it's acid damage, but its, what 1d6 points of damage? His spellbook (by Complete Arcane) along with most of his other gear (magical stuff, most definitely) would have had hardness, meaning that, hey, guess what, that stuff probably survived!

EDIT: To be exact, you'd have to subtract hardness as per normal against the fog, then figure out how much damage the acid does. Each magic item would get a save against it each round, too. Is it a lot to keep track of? Hell yeah, but that doesn't mean it kills all his stuffs.

The average leather-bound spellbook has like, 1-2hardness and 2 hp. Pretty safe bet it was destroyed. I have no idea what stats most magical gear is supposed to have though.:smallconfused:

[Geigan]

The average leather-bound spellbook has like, 1-2hardness and 2 hp. Pretty safe bet it was destroyed. I have no idea what stats most magical gear is supposed to have though.:smallconfused:

Most magical gear isn't even statted and most that are gain no additional hardness or hp for their magic, and are almost just as wimpy as the spellbook. If the wizard had any weapons or armor they may have survived. Metal items if he was lucky since they have hardness 10, but acid fog does 2d6 so it's possible for the smaller ones to melt easily. Unless the wizard was smart paranoid and cast hardening on everything he had, then they probably would have survived.

[King Atticus]

I'm new to building wizards (currently building my 1st) but even I am taking steps to avoid spellbook impotency. This game isn't just about everything going your way because you're a hero, it's finding a way around adverse situations. If everything was always rainbows and blue skies it would get boring...quick. A few mishaps make things fun. Thats not to say the DM should be having giants take away the Wizards spellbook and hold it over his head while he jumps for it with flailing arms in every session but if a Wizard (who knows how important that book is by the way) doesn't take steps to protect his power, it's on him. It's the same reason there are rules for sundering the melee guys' weapons.

[Coidzor]

Have undead minion. Haunt Shift(Libris Mortis) it into something adamantine or sufficiently resilient. Have it manifest and give it spell book. No one can take control of it while it's not manifested, and, IIRC, even if the object gets destroyed, all that does is cause the undead to manifest permanently.

[faceroll]

Did you account for hardness? I mean, yeah, it's acid damage, but its, what 1d6 points of damage? His spellbook (by Complete Arcane) along with most of his other gear (magical stuff, most definitely) would have had hardness, meaning that, hey, guess what, that stuff probably survived!

EDIT: To be exact, you'd have to subtract hardness as per normal against the fog, then figure out how much damage the acid does. Each magic item would get a save against it each round, too. Is it a lot to keep track of? Hell yeah, but that doesn't mean it kills all his stuffs.

I followed the rules, yeah.

[cfalcon]

Enemy NPCs hunt down your PCs spellbooks. Environment effects (such as the correctly played Acid Fog) also destroy them. If he doesn't have Spell Mastery or a backup spellbook, he's screwed.

You aren't being mean to your players. Spellbooks are items. They can be stolen, burned, dissolved, blasted to pieces, disintegrated, the list goes on. Anyone not doing that is (a) coddling their players and (b) not playing by the rules. (a) can be fine, if that is how you run. (b) is also no big deal. But generally you shouldn't assume that your spellbook is safe just because most encounters pose it no danger. Powerful wizards have many spellbooks, in many places, and losing one is a minor setback. A wizard without precautions may go a whole campaign without it ever biting him- or he'll just get worked, like yours did. Acid Fog is pretty high level. I bet your PC is too. His bad. Now he knows how to play!

I would suggest you allow your players to "attune" spellbooks as I think mentioned in Complete Mage or Complete Arcane. That gives them a partial backup at no cost from looted spellbooks, at least.

[Coidzor]

I would suggest you allow your players to "attune" spellbooks as I think mentioned in Complete Mage or Complete Arcane. That gives them a partial backup at no cost from looted spellbooks, at least.

Complete Arcane, though that depends upon the DM not taking spellbooks out of the loot, which seems to be a quite popular way to get out of doing work, or just running with sorcerers instead.

[michaelmichael]

There are two methods not mentioned I'd like to point out.

Since a spellbook, even with spells inscribed is nonmagical gear, it can be created or restored with a wish spell if it's value is less than 25,000 gp. A favorite use of both wish and limited wish is to add spells to your rep. I often spell mastery them.

A second more bizarre method is major image. Specifically, if the DM allows you to fix the exact illusion you want to create at the time of memorization rather than casting, you simply memorize your entire spell book as a particular instance of a major image of, your spellbook. Duration concentration means you may need another caster to help you copy the spells over, or a feat. A permanent item of the specific major image can certainly be created to store an unlimited number of spells if blessed book is not cheap enough. Even more amusing is the spell permanent image.


:thog:

[Halae]

There are two methods not mentioned I'd like to point out.

Since a spellbook, even with spells inscribed is nonmagical gear, it can be created or restored with a wish spell if it's value is less than 25,000 gp. A favorite use of both wish and limited wish is to add spells to your rep. I often spell mastery them.

A second more bizarre method is major image. Specifically, if the DM allows you to fix the exact illusion you want to create at the time of memorization rather than casting, you simply memorize your entire spell book as a particular instance of a major image of, your spellbook. Duration concentration means you may need another caster to help you copy the spells over, or a feat. A permanent item of the specific major image can certainly be created to store an unlimited number of spells if blessed book is not cheap enough. Even more amusing is the spell permanent image.


:thog:

That... second one... is glorious!

[Taelas]

Why bother with major image? Silent image will do it just as well (and it's only a 1st level spell). Not as if a spellbook requires sound, smell, temperature or texture -- and you can move the spell within the confines of its effect, so you can easily turn pages.

[cfalcon]

The duration is problematic. Silent Image stops when you cease concentration, and Major Image only lasts a couple rounds. Permanent Image would work fine, of course, but is higher level and costs a material component.


The ability of illusions to depict arbitrarily complex things can be limited on a per campaign basis, however, there's certainly no rule against that.

That's pretty glorious. The second caster solution, of course, solves the problem as well.

[Anzyr]

Need to keep multiple spellbooks because your a paranoid wizard? There's an app for that. (Available in that most powerful of splat material, the PHB.)

Secret Page (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/secretPage.htm)

[blazingshadow]

The duration is problematic. Silent Image stops when you cease concentration, and Major Image only lasts a couple rounds.what about a ring of silent image that is tuned to only become a spellbook?

[cfalcon]

You would still have to concentrate to "turn the pages", so it wouldn't work unless it was a higher level or something (programmed image, etc.).

However, you could probably rig up something- for instance, why limit yourself to a book when you could have the script appear in midair, or something? In any event, I'm not sure if rings commonly produce that effect, it would probably have to be a custom item. Certainly something setup like that wouldn't be easy to update- the custom item you would actually want would do something like, hold a silent image for you as if you were concentrating on it.

[michaelmichael]

Yes, silent image would also work, but is more likely to piss of an average DM..

I mention it out of habit, since major image is probably one of the most powerful spells in the game. Illusionary chain telekinesis/hold person/control winds/poison gas, can all be thrown in the face of a true seeing opponent for instance. Illusionary complete lack of air is good too.

Mirage arcana is probably the most practical, since it can carry your entire library around with you and has a good duration.

:thog:

[blazingshadow]

or you can just get a thought bottle and rule out/cut back the cheese

[Wings of Peace]

or you can just get a thought bottle and rule out/cut back the cheese

Because a thought bottle certainly isn't cheese. :smallsmile:

[blazingshadow]

just rule out everything that is not storing your spells and that you can have only one bottle at a time and you might have contained some of the cheese

[cfalcon]

I mention it out of habit, since major image is probably one of the most powerful spells in the game. Illusionary chain telekinesis/hold person/control winds/poison gas, can all be thrown in the face of a true seeing opponent for instance. Illusionary complete lack of air is good too.


I don't see any of these claims as making much since. Since you cause an image of an object or force, and directly touching it lets you see through the illusion (and true sight grants it in any case), I don't see how you could do illusionary chain telekinesis, or hold person. I don't see how illusionary poison gas could poison anyone, and I'm definitely confused because even played by older edition rules I don't see how these would goof up true sight- in fact, true sight would see straight through them.


Mirage arcana is probably the most practical, since it can carry your entire library around with you and has a good duration.

Yes, a good find. It's even a glamer so it could still be books and such, as that phrasing seems to allow it.

[cfalcon]

On the note of legality- I'm still not entirely certain. I mean, we are extrapolating pretty heavily on the ability to memorize a spell out of a book into "gaining information from a display", which is very much not a guaranteed thing. So do assume that this is speculative and wouldn't work in all games.

[michaelmichael]

I don't see any of these claims as making much sense. Since you cause an image of an object or force, and directly touching it lets you see through the illusion (and true sight grants it in any case), I don't see how you could do illusionary chain telekinesis, or hold person. I don't see how illusionary poison gas could poison anyone, and I'm definitely confused because even played by older edition rules I don't see how these would goof up true sight- in fact, true sight would see straight through them.

The point is that they would not normally be seen, though not explicitly invisible. Certainly no one would be poisoned by gas, but it could make your eyes burn, possibly weakening the usability of said true seeing. The uses listed there are all simple disables. The advantage is that the whole functionality of mass disabling such as mass hold person can be achieved with a tactile only major image over a large area, but with an effectively lower save. Of course illusions in general need more rules IMO, as the effectiveness is extremely variable from one DM to another. I'll start a new thread for illusion rules, but not before sharing another fun anecdote. I once had a party exploring an area covered by a screen spell, and they brought with them a gem of true seeing. Much to their dismay, once they entered the area, the gem became invisible.
:thog:
"You don't see any gem of seeing."

[Qwertystop]

As far as needing to maintain concentration for the Image of a spellbook, there's a skill trick somewhere that makes Concentration a swift action.

[FMArthur]

Skill tricks are 1/encounter. I think it's already been mentioned that there is a feat for that, but it wasn't named.

Anyway, I don't think a Wizard can remember all of the information contained in his spellbook at once; the Autohypnosis skill (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/skills/autohypnosis.htm) is the source of rules for memorizing large amounts of text, and can't be done with any magical writing (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#arcaneMagicalWritings). I think it's pretty clear that a Wizard's ability to prepare spells and his familiarity with them via Spell Mastery is the mechanic for such memorization.

Because Silent Image and spells based on it must be as visualized by you, your capacity to remember the magical writings is called upon. I think you could probably do this as you prepare your spells, or maybe even just at any time while you have them prepared (it's unclear whether you memorize the whole spell or not at preparation). If you do have to do it while looking through the book you'd probably have to do it one page at a time, at 100gp per Permanent Image casting. If you do indeed memorize the whole spell you could do one image of a spellbook containing all the spells you currently have prepared for one casting, repeated over a few days for your full spellbook. It would be hard to keep them all following you though, since they require concentration to move.

[Taelas]

To be specific, it says, 'This spell creates the visual illusion of an object, creature or force, as visualized by you.'

There are no rules for how much you can visualize. With the spellbook on hand, you do not need to remember anything; it is right there for you to look at.

I fully agree that it is a very questionable use of the spell... nothing says that even if you do copy the book in its entirety that you could memorize spells from it. But it is creative.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

I like this silent image idea, but I agree that you couldn't visualize the entire contents of a (spell)book acuratley without some skill or feat that made doing so unnecesary, but what if you made a item that cast a silent image of your spell book. Since you'd be spending a full 8 hour day crafting the item I'd assume you could refer back to your spellbook at will slowly imprinting it a word at a time into the illusion.

Oh while we're on the subject silent image shadowcraft mage will make your spellbook very small and make your gimping upon being seperated from it minimal.

[Seth62]

I one made a necromancer and i made my familiar my spell-book as well. It was the book of the dead from the move the Evil dead, you know the one with the skin cover and blood pages. Anyway I made it sentient and gave it pretty much made it a homunculus that could fly at 10' and could absorb people into it if more pages were ever needed and each person who failed its will save was absorbed (lots of peasants and children died this way) that and it was a dread necro (level 1). Point being if your book can defend itself it will last longer, and if it is alive put a status spell on it so you can scry for it and no well its status.

[Rejakor]

Secret Page, as written, allows you to create a hidden copy of a spell. It doesn't list a cost for doing this, and clearly does it in a different way than the regular (costly) way of doing it. This allows you to create multiple spellbooks.

Complete Arcane has a bevy of ways to protect your spellbook, and there are various long term abjurations and costly permanent traps (from the DMG and other sources).

So, clearly, as a paranoid wizard. Step 1. Shrink all of your spellbooks, when they're not being used, with the Shrink Item spell. Step 2. Have lots of spellbooks. Hide them all over the damn place. Inside the souls of children. In the eyes of your enemy's loved ones. Inside a gem sacred to a holy temple. Just imagine you're a lich, hiding phylacteries, have a ball. Step 3. Ward your non-hidden spellbooks to crap and back. Hide them from the eyes of gods and men, have them incinerate anyone but you that picks them up... hell, it shouldn't even be safe for you to open your spellbook while it faces towards you. Make them so hard and tough that a legion of men with great big hammers can't destroy them.

And then, take spell mastery and uncanny forethought, so you don't even need a spellbook.

[michaelmichael]

I am most favorably disposed to the idea of allowing a player researched specialized version of silent image for the job, where the contents of the created book are fixed during the research process. This seems to me to be a compromise between the economy and security of a liberal interpretation of silent image and similar glamers, without heading too far down the slippery slope of illusory supercomputers.

Also, uncanny forethought should never have been printed, IMO.
:thog:

[Rejakor]

Why?

It's actually pretty expensive in terms of feats and opportunity cost for what it does.

If you're coming from the line of thought 'but then the DM can't screw you by making all copies of your spellbook that you protected in dozens of ways get destroyed and then not let you find another spellbook', well, screw that style of DM'ing, and screw you. Hostile world, sure. Being an arse, no.

[Greenish]

If you're coming from the line of thought 'but then the DM can't screw you by making all copies of your spellbook that you protected in dozens of ways get destroyed and then not let you find another spellbook', well, screw that style of DM'ing, and screw you. Hostile world, sure. Being an arse, no.I think he's more against how it gives already versatile wizards the major benefit of spontaneous casting, from any spell they know.

[Rejakor]

Pffft, there's better ways to do that.

Who cares about sorcerers anyway, bunch of complainers and whingers and lollygaggers if you ask me.

[Darth Stabber]

Wizards are the most powerful class? But they have a natural leash on their ability to dominate everything ever (spellbook), any wizard that isn't sufficiently paranoid doesn't deserve a spell book, that is the price of power.

Cleric and druid allow no lapse in faith. Wizard and archivist allow no lapse in vigilance.

This weakness should never be invoked lightly, but just the realization that all they have worked so hard can be lost to over confidence is enough to keep them in line.

[blazingshadow]

well there is still the Mage of the Arcane Order and Lucubration spell trick to recover and obtain any spell of 0 - 5th level. those guys at least have a built in limited and time extensive recovery system

[Grommen]

There are two methods not mentioned I'd like to point out.

Since a spellbook, even with spells inscribed is nonmagical gear, it can be created or restored with a wish spell if it's value is less than 25,000 gp. A favorite use of both wish and limited wish is to add spells to your rep. I often spell mastery them.

A second more bizarre method is major image. Specifically, if the DM allows you to fix the exact illusion you want to create at the time of memorization rather than casting, you simply memorize your entire spell book as a particular instance of a major image of, your spellbook. Duration concentration means you may need another caster to help you copy the spells over, or a feat. A permanent item of the specific major image can certainly be created to store an unlimited number of spells if blessed book is not cheap enough. Even more amusing is the spell permanent image.


:thog:

Damm... The second one explains how our cleric claims to have LCD screens with all his spells on them in his helm.

And we just thought he was loopy. :sigh:

I played, recently, in a campaign that all things were on the table. My wizard, by his own actions, blew off half his face could not cast spells requiring verbal components for several days in game. The barbarian, our main warrior, entered a the last fight of the campaign with nothing but a masterworked spear and a shield, due to an incident with a rust monster (Only time I can recal leaving a dungeon with less loot than I entered). And our cleric for an entire module was unable to cast spells because he wrecked his Helm. The latter was self imposed as he claimed to be a cleric of the Helm.

It was one of the most enjoyable campaigns I've ever been a part of because we were always working together and scrambling to stay one step ahead of the bad guys. We swapped gear, switched characters between each other and had a blast.

Back in the mean old 2nd edition days I once arranged for the party wizard to not only get his spell book stolen, but he then ran into a Brain Mole that wiped his memory of all his other spells. The wizard was so full of himself that he refused to tell anyone about his plight, and resorted to using up his scrolls and wands that he had on him. The kicker to the story was that the person whom stole the spell book wanted it to study the wizards signature spells and develop counter spells, as his spells were all acid based and no one in the campaign world had ever seen them before.

Once the rival wizard got ahold of the spell book he created the spell baseand waited at the exit to the dungeon the party was in. when they busted out of the dungeon they had just raided, having a wizard with no spells, they got assaulted by said wizards own signature spells. The party wizard responded by firing off a wand that he had made special with his spells only to find that they bounced off the rival wizards body like water off a ducks back.

Needless to say the party surrendered to the rival wizard on the next round and was relieved of all their worldly possessions. They were let go and swore revenge. And such continued one of the greatest rivalries I've seen in D&D.

Moral of the story: Roll with the punches, keep your head up, wits about you, and you just might live long enough to get sweet....sweet revenge. :smallwink:

[SamBurke]

...a cleric will never loose their holy symbol and a melee type won't loose their weapon...

You evidently don't play with our GM. I got slapped with Chaos Magic, made the stupid mistake of still using a spell, and BOOM! everything metal in the room turns into rubber. Including my weapon. Including the other melee character's weapon. :smalleek:

But it was pretty funny, I have to say. :smallbiggrin:

[ZeroGear]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned using reserve feats to reduce the need of casting spells untill a missing spell book has been recovered (I don't think spells are lost during sleep).

Also, spells can be scribed onto all sorts of things, and there are even rules for making grimores out of metal or even structures as parts of spells. Honestly, however, I would be more worried about loosing my spell component bag than my spell book.

Similarly, you could shrink the time and hide it in the heel of your boot, or under your hat. Heck, if you are really worried, just stitch the spell into your clothing.

[HalfDragonCube]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned using reserve feats to reduce the need of casting spells untill a missing spell book has been recovered (I don't think spells are lost during sleep).

Also, spells can be scribed onto all sorts of things, and there are even rules for making grimores out of metal or even structures as parts of spells. Honestly, however, I would be more worried about loosing my spell component bag than my spell book.

Similarly, you could shrink the time and hide it in the heel of your boot, or under your hat. Heck, if you are really worried, just stitch the spell into your clothing.

Spells cost money to scribe. (With some exceptions)

Also, reserve feats work of spells prepared. No prepared spells (apart from read magic), no free zappy.

Has Alacritious Cogitation already been mentioned? That would give you one spell slot to play with.

[Marnath]

Spells cost money to scribe. (With some exceptions)

Also, reserve feats work of spells prepared. No prepared spells (apart from read magic), no free zappy.


His point was that your prepared spells last until you use them or prepare new ones. Just don't cast the ones powering the reserve feats until you get the book back.

[HalfDragonCube]

His point was that your prepared spells last until you use them or prepare new ones. Just don't cast the ones powering the reserve feats until you get the book back.

I s'pose, but wizards are still fairly borked up if they are relying on reserve feats. Prevention is still better than cure. (Contingency > CCW)