Thanqol Learns To Draw! [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Thanqol

2011-05-21, 09:25 PM

When I was a little guy, I used to draw all the time. I was constantly scrounging for paper and pencils and filling notebook after notebook with thousands of sketches. I thought I was pretty good!

And then, when I was fourteen, I met THE INTERNET. And I was all, "Oh god, these people all draw so much better than me. I should GIVE UP and start writing instead because it'll be harder for people to tell how much my writing sucks!"

Seven years later, I realise that was the single dumbest decision I ever made.

So here I am. I'm gonna learn to draw again. From scratch. And I'm gonna put it on the Internet to make sure I don't chicken out or give up.

My current art status is roughly 14-year old levels. I know literally nothing about anything. I don't know what shading or cross hatching is, I know you're supposed to do a circle with lines through it but I don't know why, and I find particular difficulty with proportions. I also tend to overdetail what should be simple designs.

I have just now purchased a set of decent pencils and erasers. My challenge is to fill an A4 page with drawings every single day - doesn't matter with what, as long as it happens. I'll post pictures when I have the time, and HOPEFULLY someday they won't cause physical pain to look at.

So, playgrounders! Please, please, please give me whatever advice you can on how to do stuff. How does one art? What should one do to stop failing at art? What are techniques and pitfalls and the hidden secrets that move pictures out of the uncanny valley? Anything you can tell me, please tell me!

Also, I'm tossing around trying a range of styles and subject matter, so if anyone is fine with having their ideas drawn noobishly, toss them into the ring.

Qaera

2011-05-21, 09:30 PM

Just draw, man, and keep drawing. Doesn't matter what or how much, just keep going. Keep all your work and look at it too. Look at why you don't like and experiment with changing it. At the end of the day you are drawing for one person and one person only: the customer yourself. So do what you like and have fun doing it. You only fail if you tell yourself you are failing- ignore the haters and keep on drawing.

Domochevsky

2011-05-21, 09:36 PM

Well, show us what you got and we'll tell you what needs to change. :smallsmile:

(First tip's free: Pose figures/people/animals out beforehand with some basic lines so you know what goes where and how long it is. That helps a lot to keep a focus on the overall picture.)

A full A4 page is quite a task you're going for here. I approve.

Edit: "ignore the haters"? Preemptive kneejerk reaction? :smallwink:

CrimsonAngel

2011-05-21, 09:46 PM

Sweet! I'll watch this and help you with what little I can. :smallsmile:

Flickerdart

2011-05-21, 10:07 PM

Go to a store and buy a 2B pencil. Don't buy an eraser. If you already own an eraser, throw it out. A sketchbook would do you well; cartridge paper is not fit for drawing on.
Go life drawing. There are probably life drawing sessions held at an art school. If the model is naked, that's how it's supposed to be. The model will not be attractive, so don't worry about being distracted. This is the part where you learn anatomy; anatomy is important.
For proper drawing technique, don't hold the pencil like a pen, but hold it loosely in a horizontal position from above, and draw with the side of the lead. Use your entire arm to draw, not just the wrist. This will help you avoid carpal tunnel and more importantly, smudging. It's also harder to get detail right, which, when combined with the lack of eraser, will mean you don't get hung up on it.
Draw from real objects rather than pictures. Never ever trace. Always keep linear perspective in mind if you're drawing objects with depth.
Don't ignore the haters. Succeeding will spite them, which is what you want, because they deserve it.
A single A4 is a little small, considering. You always, always want to draw as large as you can. An A4 sheet can fit, at most, two full bodies, and even that gets cramped.

Teutonic Knight

2011-05-22, 12:53 AM

Don't ignore the haters.

:smallconfused: Don't you mean: ignore them, keep working and succeed?

Also, my nonprofessional advice, don't give up on a drawing, and try not to draw the same thing too soon after you have done so. Experiment on different subjects poses. Come back to them later.

Thanqol

2011-05-22, 03:19 AM

Thanks for the suggestions so far! Flickerdart, you described every mistake I currently make with embarassing accuracy.

Day 1, Sketch 1: Ambitious Much?

I'm going to open with me trying to do something that's absolutely beyond my reach and go for a lifelike drawing. I'll try this same picture again in a year's time and see where it gets me.

Model:

http://imageshack.us/m/835/7739/headphonesbyshutupjudy.jpg

Finished sketch:

http://imageshack.us/m/196/5934/img0001lj.jpg

Wrong in a lot of ways, but less hideous than it could have been!

Time taken: 1 1/2 hours
Materials used: 2B, HB Pencils
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vESz9dHWxCo): Star Fox Adventures Fossil's Oasis OC ReMix

Bayar

2011-05-22, 03:53 AM

1. The hair would look a lot less weird without the straight border line.

2. Make the zipper actually resemble a zipper.

That should improve the image a bit :biggrin:

Thanqol

2011-05-22, 03:58 AM

1. The hair would look a lot less weird without the straight border line.

You're right. I'll make a note of that in the future.

2. Make the zipper actually resemble a zipper.

That should improve the image a bit :biggrin:

I was focused on getting the face right. Clothing, particularly rumpled clothing, is a challenge for another day!

Thanqol

2011-05-22, 08:14 AM

Day 2, Sketch 1: Disapproval

I'm posting this after midnight today because I'm out all day tomorrow.

This one was mostly getting the feel for these different pencil types and shading techniques. I'm trying to learn how to make two darkly shaded areas visually distinct - anyone got any tips? I tried layering HB over 4B for the hat brim.

Model:

http://imageshack.us/m/41/4325/6a00d834518cc969e200e55.jpg

Finished sketch:

http://imageshack.us/m/823/2605/img00012ep.jpg

Time taken: 1 1/2 hours
Materials used: 6B, 4B 2B, HB Pencils
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhC5SLS4j5o): The Stars Will Aid Her Escape

CrimsonAngel

2011-05-22, 08:29 AM

Irbis

2011-05-22, 09:14 AM

For proper drawing technique, don't hold the pencil like a pen, but hold it loosely in a horizontal position from above, and draw with the side of the lead. Use your entire arm to draw, not just the wrist. This will help you avoid carpal tunnel and more importantly, smudging. It's also harder to get detail right, which, when combined with the lack of eraser, will mean you don't get hung up on it.

More specifically, you might want to try these grips (http://chiseledrocks.com/main/musings/topics/how_to_hold_the_pencil) and check which one is best for you.

ScionoftheVoid

2011-05-22, 11:14 AM

Flickerdart, your post gave more information on drawing than the whole year of my Higher Art course (one of the reasons I'm not continuing to Advanced Higher next year, others being that it apparently takes commitment I can't be bothered to give and that my artwork is not all that much better than Thanquol's. I would be, quite frankly, outclassed).

Skavensrule

2011-05-22, 02:00 PM

Best of luck to you Thangol! I often regret not keeping up with my own art skills (which have gotten worse over the years from lack of practice). I plan to start drawing again as well, most of the advice given here I have already told to myself. I purchased a new sketch pad last week and will take Flickerdart's suggestion about no eraser. I plan to start with landscapes first as that was my weakest field 25 years ago. Keep to your goals, to quote from Babylon 5 "It doesn't matter if you fall down, as long as you're just two inches taller when you stand up again."

SiuiS

2011-05-22, 03:34 PM

Go with what Irbis says. On the one hoof, I don't. I'm all cocky and smug because I have good detail without a proper grip.

On the other hoof, I'm already dealing with repetitive strain injuries. Woo!

What else? Let's see. Find something inspirational and stick with it. When I was eight I had kindergarten doodles, when I was ten, my cousin was into tryin to draw comics. I started drawing sonic the hedgehog and megaman. By the time I was twelve or thirteen, dragonball Z hit it's stride, and I went from drawing Kung-Fu scenes using circle ninja heads, black eye dots, and random bulges for muscles to being able to draw rather good anime style art.

Try to copy things exactly. Photo-realism isn't best for this, but if it's your thing, go for it. Myself, I started with power rangers. Not very original, but I could draw King Sphinx just like he was in the coloring book :biggrin:

Use as many different medias as possible. Compare and contrast; if you see something, think about how you could draw it with your current style. Even non-art stuff. Ponies, people, advertisements, other cartoons. Start a comic! Doesn't have to be good, but a sequence and story will force you to work on perspective and angles.
Just don't do it webcomic style- give it a meaningful story.

Last one; read anatomy books. Not the whole "I'm looking at pictures but don't get it/don't care" but actually read the book. For one, it's interesting subject matter, and for two it improves your understanding. Did you know the bicep looks pretty but doesn't do anything? There is a muscle under it that takes most of the weight. Your main masticator hooks up through that loop in your cheekbones. Your shoulder 'socket' is made entirely of clavicle and shoulder blade getting chummy. I need to go over my books. I'm rusty!

That is all I can think of. 80% of what I do is fun and perseverance. If I'm drawing and it's not fun, I won't finish.

Silviya

2011-05-22, 06:39 PM

There are several points of advice I can give you. First off, all the advice that's been given in this thread is excellent advice. Second, it's awesome that you're so determined to get better at art! I, personally, believe that one of the most important thing for an artist to have is the desire to get better.

You might know this already, but here's my advice on what to tell yourself when you see an awesome drawing: Push those thoughts that say "I'll never be this good!" out of your head and think "This art is awesome. My art can be this awesome. If I work at it, if I am determined, if I never give up, and if I am willing to learn, my art will be this awesome." That advice is really for anyone who feels discouraged when they see awesome art.
I still remember that one day when I was on DeviantART, and I saw this one artist who had amazing art. I couldn't believe how awesome it was, and I thought "There is no way my art will ever be this good." I looked through that artists gallery, all the way to the back. At the very back of the gallery were drawing that he had made just three years ago. They were about the same quality as the art I was making at the time, maybe even a little worse. That's when I realized that, if I kept at it, I could be that good at drawing if I worked really hard. I think that that's an important lesson for all artists.

Long ramble aside, here are some more concrete tips:

--When drawing people, don't start by drawing the outlines. Start by drawing a line for the spine and neck. This line shouldn't be completely strait, or the person will look stiff. Then draw an egg shape for the head. After that, draw two more lines across the spine: One a little ways below the head, for the shoulders, and one at the bottom of the spine, for the hips. These lines usually shouldn't be parallel to each other. The drawing will have more motion if they're at slight angles. Then, after you draw the lines for the hips and the shoulders, draw two lines for the arms and two lines for the legs. Again, these lines should be doing something.
Once you get those lines draw, go ahead and draw the rest of the outline. I've found that all the people I've drawn where I drew the outline first look stiff and uninteresting, but the people where I've drawn the basic lines first for the sketch look much more real, and there's so much more motion and interest in the final drawing. The initial drawing really does have a massive effect on the final drawing.
I recommend that you find at least three blank pieces of paper and fill them with little line sketches of people. Don't even use a model. Just draw, draw, draw. Don't let the hips and shoulder be parallel, don't let the spine and neck be just a strait stick. This exercise is for drawing sketches with motion and interest. Draw at least twenty little people. I did this, and it helped me immensely. And who knows, maybe you'll really like one of those poses and decide to go back to it later!

--When you draw faces, draw a sort of egg/oval shape, and then draw a curved line across vertically, one then another curved line horizontally. The vertical line is where the nose and mouth will go, and the horizontal line is where the eyes will go. It looks completely useless (or, at least, I thought it looked completely useless when I was learning to draw), but it helps so much.

--Get some interesting figurines and sculptures. Draw them first from one angle. Then rotate it a bit and draw it again. Repeat until you've gone all the way around the sculpture. This is a great way to learn how things look from all angles. However, it'll probably get boring after a while, so feel free to get up and take a break at any time.

--Do you have any dogs or cats? If so, they're great resources for drawing, because they never stay in one place. Use some scrap paper and just do quick gesture drawings of the animal. It'll probably have moved by the time you get done with a quick sketch.

--Books on drawing are awesome. I recommend in investing in at least one book on anatomy. Also, there are some really good tutorials on DeviantART, so you should probably check out those as well.

I hope my advice helps, and I think it's awesome they you're so determined to get better. Keep at it, and you will become an awesome artist :smallsmile:.

Thanqol

2011-05-22, 06:42 PM

1st drawing- Someone already mentioned the hair, but the nose in the picture curves up, not down. Unless you covered part of it with hair, but that's also not in the picture.

2nd drawing- The outside edge of his face should be closer to his eye. You draw your eyes almost like I do.

OhmygoodnessIlovethatsecondsong

1. *Nods and notes*

2. Ah, you're right. Proportions are one of the toughest things I'm encountering right now. I'm constantly holding my pencil up to the model to measure distances.

More specifically, you might want to try these grips (http://chiseledrocks.com/main/musings/topics/how_to_hold_the_pencil) and check which one is best for you.

Oh look, it has my grip! I use the Inverted Bow Grip for all my writing and drawing and have ever since I was five. Maybe that's why my handwriting is absolutely hideous.

Thanks for this! It's all kinds of handy (rimshot)

Go with what Irbis says. On the one hoof, I don't. I'm all cocky and smug because I have good detail without a proper grip.

On the other hoof, I'm already dealing with repetitive strain injuries. Woo!

I've seen too many webcomics go on haitus due to horrible self-inflicted drawing injuries to want break the habit now.

Last one; read anatomy books. Not the whole "I'm looking at pictures but don't get it/don't care" but actually read the book. For one, it's interesting subject matter, and for two it improves your understanding. Did you know the bicep looks pretty but doesn't do anything? There is a muscle under it that takes most of the weight. Your main masticator hooks up through that loop in your cheekbones. Your shoulder 'socket' is made entirely of clavicle and shoulder blade getting chummy. I need to go over my books. I'm rusty!

That is all I can think of. 80% of what I do is fun and perseverance. If I'm drawing and it's not fun, I won't finish.

Right-o! Looks like I might need another quick stop by the art shop.

*All The Advices*

I hope my advice helps, and I think it's awesome they you're so determined to get better. Keep at it, and you will become an awesome artist :smallsmile:.

This stuff is brilliant and helpful, thank you so much :smallsmile:

Irbis

2011-05-22, 07:08 PM

Oh look, it has my grip! I use the Inverted Bow Grip for all my writing and drawing and have ever since I was five. Maybe that's why my handwriting is absolutely hideous.

Thanks for this! It's all kinds of handy (rimshot)

...I hope this page proves useful, it has a lot of advice that is hard to find, that is, what not to do. What to do you can find in tutorials and books easily enough.

Saeyan

2011-05-22, 11:28 PM

Thanqol

2011-05-22, 11:33 PM

I think the images you are trying to copy now are too complex. Also note that I use the word 'copy': it seems to me that you are just trying to duplicate your ref photos without consideration for how it was constructed. Copying is certainly not wrong but not what I would recommend for starting out with.

first learn to construct spheres, deformed spheres, cuboids and stick figures. fill an A4 with these. Try 1/3 page of standard basic shapes, then use the remaining 2/3 to distort/bend them in interesting ways and draw some stickmen. give them personality!

That was my plan for this evening's attempt! The first two were me calibrating how much I remembered and messing around, they're definitely way too complex for my current level :smallsmile:

Going down to basic shapes will be especially trying because I'm going to be holding a pencil in a completely different way to what I'm used to. But then, I've got some things I've got to un-learn.

Domochevsky

2011-05-23, 01:50 AM

Grif

2011-05-23, 02:06 AM

Well, I know which page to refer to when I take up drawing next time. Never too late to learn right? (I stopped drawing after age 9-10.)

Thanqol

2011-05-23, 02:47 AM

Never knew about holding the pen differently... and i kinda doubt im gonna start with it now (Many of these holding techniques flat out can't be done with a level drawing surface.). >_>

That being said, i support the "draw basic shapes and stick figures" notion. Works a lot better than reproducing portraits. :smallsmile:

(What drawing style are you going for anyway?)

Yeah, I'm going to try some of the holding techniques in just a minute, but that's reliant on me being able balance my sketchbook diagonally at my desk. I don't have an easel and intend to draw in places where it'd be inconvenient to set one up.

What drawing style am I going for? Fudge, no idea. I've actually got it in my head to try a whole bunch and see what works for me. When I stopped I had an anime-ish style, but I'm not sure that's exactly what I'm after.

Thanqol

2011-05-23, 04:55 AM

Day 3, Sketch 1: Base Principles

There are few things as awkward as changing the way you hold your pencil. I can see a marked difference in how I draw already, including discovering that big straight lines that used to give me trouble are now super easy. On the downside, everything I know is now wrong.

I suddenly realise this is going to be hard.

I covered several pages with stick figures before I started to get the hang of it. After a while, it started to make a whole lot more sense, especially when I started marking joints. Two and a half hours in, things really started to flow, but I had to cut it short due to other commitments. However, I think I learned a lot, especially when taking on board the advice posted in this thread. Though I was kind of dreading this update, I now feel it was totally worth it and I'm looking forwards to doing more!

Model: None

Sketch:

http://imageshack.us/m/863/2159/img0003de.jpg

Time taken: 2 1/2 hours
Materials: H, 2B pencils
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8LbK0Bj_cw): Fish

fizmat

2011-05-23, 05:14 AM

Day 3, Sketch 1: Base Principles

That kick looks funny, in both senses of the word. Feels dynamic, but not like a kick. Kinda like an enthusiastic first step. Neverhood-ish. Does anybody else see this, or am I weird?

And now I want to learn to draw. :smallfrown:

Thanqol

2011-05-23, 05:21 AM

That kick looks funny, in both senses of the word. Feels dynamic, but not like a kick. Kinda like an enthusiastic first step. Neverhood-ish. Does anybody else see this, or am I weird?

And now I want to learn to draw. :smallfrown:

It wasn't so much a kick so much as an I TAKE LARGE STEPS. You're right, though, it was one of my favourite sketches and why I chose that particular page to upload.

So far my costs on learning to draw have been $10 worth of pencils and a $20 guidebook. There's nothing stopping you doing exactly what I'm doing as long as you're prepared to commit to one page of pictures a day.

Heck, you're even welcome to share the thread with your own updates! :smallwink:

fizmat

2011-05-23, 05:33 AM

It wasn't so much a kick so much as an I TAKE LARGE STEPS. You're right, though, it was one of my favourite sketches and why I chose that particular page to upload.

Ah, so the other fighting poses led me to assume it was a kick. Besides, my drawing of a kick would have looked something like that (as in, looking nothing like a kick). Props for getting the effect you intended.

Prime32

2011-05-23, 06:59 AM

Looks kind of like someone kicking down a door.

shawnhcorey

2011-05-23, 08:35 AM

Ninjaman

2011-05-23, 09:02 AM

*Reads thread*
That was usefull.

Flickerdart

2011-05-23, 12:36 PM

Ah, proportions time. While these can and do vary, there are general guidelines for a "standard" human. Women will have slightly narrower shoulders and slightly wider hips.

Draw the head first. Shoulders are as wide as two head widths. Upper arms are 1.5 head lengths, lower arms are 1.25, hands with fingers are the size of the face. The neck is actually not all that long. The waist is the size of the shoulders. The actual torso is two heads tall. The legs are four heads tall (yes, legs are very long). Feet are one head in length.
If creating a body "from scratch" I would recommend looking at anatomy reference - bone structure and muscles, specifically. Same goes for faces, and there are wonderful books on that subject.

Rockbird

2011-05-23, 02:46 PM

You've got the first principle of artistry down already - practice, practice, practice.

Anatomy studies help a lot. Get a good one and start copying muscle groups, whole body shots, whatever. Learn the skeleton and the muscles.

These practice pictures will look like crap. The proportions will be wrong, stuff will look messed up. It will feel useless.

Then you sit down to draw some time later and it's all there. You don't need to think about it because you've got it programmed into your spine. This takes time of course - my first serious anatomy practice period lasted about a year, and i still go back to brush up now and then.

When it comes to faces and heads in general i would strongly recommend getting your hands on the Artists Guide to Facial Expression by Gary Faigin. It's a very very very useful book and has helped at least me a whole damn lot.

Also, as has been mentioned, life drawing is useful. It helps to put together all that anatomy practice and get a view of how it works in practice.

Skavensrule

2011-05-23, 09:59 PM

Thanqol

2011-05-23, 10:52 PM

Well Thangol, you've motivated me to do some sketching of my own again. But for any of you out there that think I will post anything at this time I refer you to comic #303 (the last two panels) for my reply. If I can remember the password though I do have a DevArt account that I started the last time I tried to get back into drawing. (nothing ever got posted though, new GF started taking up free time)

Hey, that's great! If you ever do produce something you're confident with putting on The Internet, go ahead and post it here. The more people get in on this bandwagon, the better off everyone will be :smallbiggrin:

Thanqol

2011-05-24, 04:24 AM

Day Four: Proportions Time

Following Flickerdart's really handy reference estimates, I started filling pages with more stick figures, focusing on getting proportions right. I realise that my original idea of doing one single drawing every night was pretty unrealistic; a whole lot of this time is being spent on random doodling and getting a feel for how lines move.

I did try one semicoherent picture to see what fleshing in one of these skeletons felt like. My reception was mixed, but what doing this did was made me realise I have no idea how to draw faces. I filled another page with random dud faces before I ran out of time for it.

I'm going to try more faces tomorrow with a bunch of reference pictures, and take a look at facial anatomy as suggested. Anyone got any specific suggestions? Not going for realism here, just decent sketches right now.

Model: None

Finished Sketch:

http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg818/scaled.php?tn=0&server=818&filename=img0004km.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640

Time taken: 2 1/2 hours
Materials: H, 2B pencils
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz3HShQkdd4): One Country

Saeyan

2011-05-24, 08:32 AM

2.5 hours? goodness you are serious.
Don't burn yourself out.

How large are you working? A4, right? but how many pictures (like the guy in the latest image) are you fitting on one sheet?

Let's try to improve your line quality a little. Stick your paper on the wall slightly below eye level and doodle some long lines across the entire length of your paper with a soft pencil (2B or up). Try to move your arm from the elbow joint instead of the wrist, and resist the urge to draw fuzzy lines. :smallconfused: that reminds me of biology

here's something interesting you can do: find a street photography group on flickr.com, go to their "group pool" gallery, click on the slideshow button and hit pause. Do some stick figures from the photos there - and if you feel like it, try fleshing out some of them. Don't spend too long on each. a few minutes will suffice.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b229/krysjez/thangol.jpg

^ the problem with this is that you tend to get only people walking, but you can always switch groups. try finding one about martial arts or something!

Thanqol

2011-05-24, 08:48 AM

2.5 hours? goodness you are serious.
Don't burn yourself out.

I basically started drawing and zonked out because it was kind of relaxing and I'd had a big and stressful day. ^^;

How large are you working? A4, right? but how many pictures (like the guy in the latest image) are you fitting on one sheet?

Usually two, but I like doing one and then surrounding the exterior with practice attempts at details I think are going to give me trouble, like eyes.

Let's try to improve your line quality a little. Stick your paper on the wall slightly below eye level and doodle some long lines across the entire length of your paper with a soft pencil (2B or up). Try to move your arm from the elbow joint instead of the wrist, and resist the urge to draw fuzzy lines. :smallconfused: that reminds me of biology

Mission for tomorrow: Find some thumbtacks and a useable wall to make the attempt! I'm currently propping my sketchbook between my lap and my desk to get a mostly vertical angle but that's still kind of a weird position and I can't get much range out of my elbow.

And it's a pity that this is a thing, because I kind of like the idea of being able to make decent sketches randomly while sitting down... setting up an easel, which is where this will lead, just feels too formal. Ah well, such is life.

I think my line quality is poor because I've got the habit of making multiple short strokes rather than long smooth ones. It gives me a little more control but you're right, it looks ugly. I'll try to cut down.

here's something interesting you can do: find a street photography group on flickr.com, go to their "group pool" gallery, click on the slideshow button and hit pause. Do some stick figures from the photos there - and if you feel like it, try fleshing out some of them. Don't spend too long on each. a few minutes will suffice.

*Snip*

^ the problem with this is that you tend to get only people walking, but you can always switch groups. try finding one about martial arts or something!

Oh hey, that's really cool! I'll give that a try too! Thanks!

Prime32

2011-05-24, 09:01 AM

2.5 hours? goodness you are serious.
Don't burn yourself out.Speed comes with practice. I still have trouble with some basic stuff, but I can draw things in hours that once took me days.

Saeyan

2011-05-24, 09:04 AM

it was kind of relaxing and I'd had a big and stressful day.
that's really good! :)

have you got any blu-tack? less prone to destroy your wall...

I kind of like the idea of being able to make decent sketches randomly while sitting down
no no don't let go of that idea. It will happen. It happens most of the time. Just that for now we should try standing as well. The vertical thing is not really a 'thing'...sitting down with horizontal paper is fine for everything up till A2 in my experience. But when learning to control arm (and even shoulder, or for really huge works torso) movement standing may be beneficial in the beginning.

I usually work with the paper flat or only slightly inclined, which is comfortable and what I am used to BUT runs the risk of distortion due to viewing angle.

making multiple short strokes rather than long smooth ones
multiple short strokes is actually okay up to a certain extent. You're right, it gives you better control. But if you're using many short lines to construct a 4cm-long curve (which is possible, but hard to tell from your pics) then that is too much.

ugh, look at me, dispensing advice like I'm some big-shot artist. I'm learning to draw just like you are. right, I'll be off then. have fun drawing tomorrow!

Thanqol

2011-05-24, 09:14 AM

that's really good! :)

have you got any blu-tack? less prone to destroy your wall...

Yeah, but won't that make the paper uneven? Though that may be part of the point, learning not to press hard enough for that to become an issue?

no no don't let go of that idea. It will happen. It happens most of the time. Just that for now we should try standing as well. The vertical thing is not really a 'thing'...sitting down with horizontal paper is fine for everything up till A2 in my experience. But when learning to control arm (and even shoulder, or for really huge works torso) movement standing may be beneficial in the beginning.

Oh good! I'll definitely give it a try tomorrow then!

multiple short strokes is actually okay up to a certain extent. You're right, it gives you better control. But if you're using many short lines to construct a 4cm-long curve (which is possible, but hard to tell from your pics) then that is too much.

ugh, look at me, dispensing advice like I'm some big-shot artist. I'm learning to draw just like you are. right, I'll be off then. have fun drawing tomorrow!

I lunge on absolutely every nugget of advice you dispense! The stuff I've learned from this thread already has saved me weeks of faffing about in my rut of not understanding anything. :smallsmile:

Silviya

2011-05-24, 03:27 PM

So, you asked for advice on drawing faces. I used to completely suck at drawing faces, partially because I was almost always drawing Dragons, not people.
Rockbird suggested getting Artist's Guide to Facial Expression by Gary Faigin. I also have this book, and I also found it very helpful, so I'll second his recommendation of getting the book.

Other then reading books on drawing faces, this is what I did to get better at faces: I got a hundred page 3.5" by 5.5" sketch book, and whenever I saw a good picture of a face, either a photo or a realistic painting/drawing, I'd draw the face in the book. I didn't spend long on it, maybe five minutes at most. I was drawing around three to five faces a day, and by the time I filled up the sketch book I was able to draw faces from my imagination.

Another book that I've found extremely helpful is 100 Ways to Create Fantasy Figures by Francis Tsai. It has some great tips, even if you aren't drawing fantasy things. Some of the tips are probably a bit above your current level of drawing (some of the stuff on color, for example, sense you're not using color yet), but it's still an amazing book. The first section of the book I think will be especially to you. And the later, more advanced stuff will be helpful for you once you reach that level. In other words, the book is amazing and you should get it.

And one more thing: I'm going to be giving a lecture in the summer at a conference I'm going to about art. I'm not going to talking much about how to draw realistically and how to replicate photos and all that, sense there are plenty of books on that subject. I'm going to be talking about how to make your art more interesting. Stuff how to set the mood of a piece, how to increase the impact of a piece, how to tell a story with a piece, etc. I was wondering if it would be helpful for anyone here if I wrote it up at some point and posted it in a thread on this forum (probably before I've given the lecture, maybe sometime in early June). It won't be an advanced or beginner thing, it's something geared at helping all artists, no matter what their skill level. So, basically, my question is, would any of you artists on this forum want me to write it up and post it?

Domochevsky

2011-05-24, 04:25 PM

...
And one more thing: I'm going to be giving a lecture in the summer at a conference I'm going to about art. I'm not going to talking much about how to draw realistically and how to replicate photos and all that, sense there are plenty of books on that subject. I'm going to be talking about how to make your art more interesting. Stuff how to set the mood of a piece, how to increase the impact of a piece, how to tell a story with a piece, etc. I was wondering if it would be helpful for anyone here if I wrote it up at some point and posted it in a thread on this forum (probably before I've given the lecture, maybe sometime in early June). It won't be an advanced or beginner thing, it's something geared at helping all artists, no matter what their skill level. So, basically, my question is, would any of you artists on this forum want me to write it up and post it?

Sure, that's always useful. :smallsmile:

Recaiden

2011-05-24, 08:08 PM

I can't give you any advice, but I can commend you for your efforts and say that you've inspired/guilted me into sketching things once more, which I had stopped upon entering college.

Thanqol

2011-05-24, 08:55 PM

So, you asked for advice on drawing faces. I used to completely suck at drawing faces, partially because I was almost always drawing Dragons, not people.
Rockbird suggested getting Artist's Guide to Facial Expression by Gary Faigin. I also have this book, and I also found it very helpful, so I'll second his recommendation of getting the book.

Other then reading books on drawing faces, this is what I did to get better at faces: I got a hundred page 3.5" by 5.5" sketch book, and whenever I saw a good picture of a face, either a photo or a realistic painting/drawing, I'd draw the face in the book. I didn't spend long on it, maybe five minutes at most. I was drawing around three to five faces a day, and by the time I filled up the sketch book I was able to draw faces from my imagination.

*Nod nod* That sounds like a good plan. And putting a limit on how much time to spend on each one seems like a good limiter too.

Oh, one question: If I'm trying for a comic book style, like this (http://darkencomic.com/), should I be using comic faces or real faces as my model?

Another book that I've found extremely helpful is 100 Ways to Create Fantasy Figures by Francis Tsai. It has some great tips, even if you aren't drawing fantasy things. Some of the tips are probably a bit above your current level of drawing (some of the stuff on color, for example, sense you're not using color yet), but it's still an amazing book. The first section of the book I think will be especially to you. And the later, more advanced stuff will be helpful for you once you reach that level. In other words, the book is amazing and you should get it.

WHO KNEW DRAWING WOULD HAVE THIS MUCH READING!?

I'll check the art shop soonish, failing that I'll order them off the interwebs :smallsmile:

And one more thing: I'm going to be giving a lecture in the summer at a conference I'm going to about art. I'm not going to talking much about how to draw realistically and how to replicate photos and all that, sense there are plenty of books on that subject. I'm going to be talking about how to make your art more interesting. Stuff how to set the mood of a piece, how to increase the impact of a piece, how to tell a story with a piece, etc. I was wondering if it would be helpful for anyone here if I wrote it up at some point and posted it in a thread on this forum (probably before I've given the lecture, maybe sometime in early June). It won't be an advanced or beginner thing, it's something geared at helping all artists, no matter what their skill level. So, basically, my question is, would any of you artists on this forum want me to write it up and post it?

I would absolutely love to see this! I find this kind of theory absolutely fascinating.

Silviya

2011-05-24, 10:14 PM

Oh, one question: If I'm trying for a comic book style, like this (http://darkencomic.com/), should I be using comic faces or real faces as my model?

I think you should learn to draw real faces first. If you learn to draw the cartoon faces first, and then you later want to draw more realistic faces, it'll be a lot harder, because you'll almost have to unlearn everything you learned from drawing the cartoon faces, or the realistic faces will look cartoony. Also, I find that cartoony faces that are drawn by someone who learned to draw real faces first look much better then cartoon faces drawn by someone who never learned how to draw realistic faces. I'm pretty sure that the guy who drew that comic page knows how to draw realistic faces as well as cartoon faces.
A personal motto of mine when it comes to artistic stylization of any sort: You need to know the rules to break the rules. This applies to cartoons, manga, fantasy creatures, etc.
For example, I draw lots and lots of Dragons. However, I still learned the skeleton and muscle structure of real animals, and I drew lots of real animals first. That way I can give the Dragons more realistic poses, draw the muscles where they should be, make the wings a more realistic size, etc. My Dragons look much better now than they would have if I hadn't studied real animals first. It's the same sort of thing with cartoons: If you know how to draw a realistic face, you'll better know how expressions work, where all the facial features are, and all that.

WHO KNEW DRAWING WOULD HAVE THIS MUCH READING!?

I'll check the art shop soonish, failing that I'll order them off the interwebs :smallsmile:

I actually have a shelf and a half dedicated to art books of all kinds. I do more kinds of art then just pencil and paper drawing, so some of the books are on other forms of art, and a significant amount of the books are on drawing Dragons and fantasy creatures in particular, but I still have a ton of books on drawing. There are lots of books on drawing :smalltongue:.

I would absolutely love to see this! I find this kind of theory absolutely fascinating.

Sure, that's always useful. :smallsmile:

Alright then, I'll start work on getting it all written up as soon as I can :smallsmile:.

Thanqol

2011-05-25, 09:07 AM

Day Five: Faces of Evil

DRAWING ALL THE FACES

I basically sat down and started finding random pictures and drawing them. Not putting much time or effort into them, just focusing on drawing a tonne of faces, and also focusing on drawing from the elbow rather than the wrist. No editing, stopping, or reflecting, just as many faces as I could. Trying to get a feel for proportions and expressions, and mixing it up with a variety of art styles.

It's an addictive process, especially when I find faces with a lot of character to them. I had to pull myself out after an hour and a half of non stop this.

Model: The first 5 pages of Google Image Search on "Faces"

Finished Sketch:

http://imageshack.us/m/163/6381/img0005uf.jpg

Time taken: 1 hour 30 mins
Materials: H, 2B pencils
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43Hx6yjVcZs): Lower The Moon

Flickerdart

2011-05-25, 01:23 PM

Faces also have proportions! But I'll be damned if I can remember all of them off-hand. An eye between the eyes, top of the nose from the centre point of the head, mouth's centre line is 1/3rd of the way down from the bottom of the nose to the chin, ears start at the eyebrows and end at the bottom of the nose. Something like that.

Ninjaman

2011-05-26, 12:17 AM

Thanqol

2011-05-26, 09:03 AM

Day 6: Psychoacoustics

Practice, practice, practice.

I think the real progress today has been how I think about drawing. I'm finally really getting into the habit of moving my elbow rather than my wrist when I'm drawing. I took my notepad to tonight's tabletop Exalted session and spent any spare time drawing everyone else. I filled a page with just eyes.

As usual, it's frustrating not to be magically better by this point, but right now being able to draw a circle consistently would be a significant step forwards. I'm finding that it's also harder than I thought to make sure two eyes are looking in the same direction.

Tomorrow I'm going to try sketching some inanimate objects to break things up.

Model: Google Image Search on "Angry Faces"

Finished Sketch: (Especially terrible tonight)

http://imageshack.us/m/651/7057/img0006lg.jpg

Time Taken: ~2 hours spread over 5 hours
Materials: 2B Pencil
Music (http://www.thinkwithportals.com/music.php): Science is Fun

Skavensrule

2011-05-26, 11:28 PM

Well Thangol I spent about 4 hours today sketching with a specific goal in mind, to create a third "Iron Avatar" image for this month. After three hours of failure I was able to create an image that I liked. The question is how it looks after being scanned and if I can create a background for it before Tuesday.

Thanqol

2011-05-27, 07:09 AM

Day Seven: Pony Time

Equestria Daily (http://www.equestriadaily.com/2011/05/newbie-artist-training-grounds-day-1.html) has basically stolen my idea - Not pointing any fingers PHOEKUN - so I'm going to have a daily challenge to add to my normal drawing practice. I'm going to save everyone here from the many pages I'll be filling with five minute sketches and likely just post the good copy pieces I'll be submitting to the daily contest.

I'm also going to start mixing in some inking into my practice. I find inking helps me a lot psychologically because I stop adding dodgy shading as a substitute for clean lines.

Model:

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/8343/rainbowsalute.png

Finished Sketch:

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5870/img0008hw.jpg

Time Taken: 2 hours
Materials: 2B Pencil, 0.4 Artliner Pen
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTPqjKk_xCo&feature=player_embedded): Equestria Girls (Gonna have this stuck in my head for weeks now)

Saeyan

2011-05-27, 08:02 AM

I'll check the art shop soonish, failing that I'll order them off the interwebs
CHECK THE LIBRARY FIRST!

pony
ponies again?! first they invade my thread now this. Why did you choose to flip the image when drawing? did you flip it in your mind?

0.4 Artliner? I love liquid eyeliner too! heh but anyway, i'd recommend using a standard office 0.5-0.7 ballpoint or at least a 0.5 artliner for inks. I reckon the thin nib is making your lines wobblier than they would be otherwise.

I took my notepad to tonight's tabletop Exalted session and spent any spare time drawing everyone else.

that's a fantastic habit. Keep drawing your friends and don't let them see you :P

it's frustrating not to be magically better by this point, but right now being able to draw a circle consistently would be a significant step forwards.
oh man I can't even draw a circle properly! :(

I'm finding that it's also harder than I thought to make sure two eyes are looking in the same direction.well, at least I can tell that they are looking in the same direction...

Do you have a scanner? or less blurry photos would be good at least...it's hard to tell what's going on in some of your posts.

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/8959/weirdfaceu.jpg

Thanqol

2011-05-27, 08:21 AM

CHECK THE LIBRARY FIRST!

Will do!

ponies again?! first they invade my thread now this. Why did you choose to flip the image when drawing? did you flip it in your mind?

Ponies. They're the underlying reason behind this entire thing.

I chose to flip it because, well, I thought 'drawing opposite to the model will make me think about it more'.

0.4 Artliner? I love liquid eyeliner too! heh but anyway, i'd recommend using a standard office 0.5-0.7 ballpoint or at least a 0.5 artliner for inks. I reckon the thin nib is making your lines wobblier than they would be otherwise.

Ahhh OK, will do. I found a few 0.4's in my house and thought they looked like legit art pens so I picked them up. I do not actually know the difference between types of pen either.

that's a fantastic habit. Keep drawing your friends and don't let them see you :P

Operation: Stalking commencing.

oh man I can't even draw a circle properly! :(

Circles are haaaaaaard. A few times I've wondered about getting a mathematical compass (but memory tells me those things suck and I probably want to learn to draw without needing one)

well, at least I can tell that they are looking in the same direction...

Do you have a scanner? or less blurry photos would be good at least...it's hard to tell what's going on in some of your posts.

One day, one day I will possess a scanner. Well, I actually do have some cash in my 'Frivolous Waste Money' fund. I'll swing by the shops sometime soon.

I love having a Frivolous Waste Money fund. Makes so many decisions so much easier.

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/8959/weirdfaceu.jpg

I love this kind of stuff. Getting direct advice like this is how I learn best. Thank you so much for taking the time :smallsmile:

glemis1

2011-05-27, 01:19 PM

Ya this is a great thread. I would love to learn how to draw i am pritty good at copying stuff i see but i dont think im a good drawer. This is one i did awhile ago but i don't draw mutch and now i think im going to start drawing more then twice a year.
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x379/glemis/DSCF1424.jpg
also http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x379/glemis/DSCF1420.jpg

Kaytara

2011-05-27, 07:31 PM

Hoo boy. What ambition! :D

In some ways, drawing is one of the easiest things in the world to learn. You draw. Ergo, you learn to draw. If you keep drawing, you WILL get better, all from putting pencil to paper and trying to make the end result look as good as possible.

That said, there will be issues that you identify in retrospect and go all "Man, that really kept me from moving forward!" Habits, usually. You get used to doing something one way and it becomes second nature, but it may not always be the best way. This usually concerns coloration techniques or anatomy.

Drawing from pictures is a pretty big no. There's a reason why drawing from life is best - your brain learns to translate 3D into 2D. Drawing from things that are already 2D doesn't have that.

Anatomy classes aren't mandatory in the sense of do them or you'll suck forever, though. (Speaking from experience. Uh, hopefully?) What you want to learn is how a body looks. There's pictures of anatomy and muscles on the net and in books. Study them. Don't try to remember everything at once and don't directly copy, but try to remember and visualise how a particular part looks and incorporate your newfound knowledge in your next few drawings. Then, rinse and repeat. Look at people in daily life and analyse how they look from new perspectives - such as the distance between their features, the proportions of the body, how they carry themselves, where the balance lines are. Try not to look too creepy as you do it, too. XD

Drawing things from the skeleton up is always a good starting idea. Hell, you could do worse than sticking to just drawing nothing but skeletons for a while - actual skeletons, complete with at least all the major bones. Then learn where all the fleshy bits go on top.

But in many ways, learning to draw is sort of a spiritual journey. Sometimes you don't get better as much as you learn to push yourself farther. Your standards on how a "finished" work looks in terms of details, realism, lighting and aesthetics keep rising and you're no longer satisfied with how you did it before, which is why works from even a few months earlier will make you cringe and wonder how you could have ever thought that it looked vaguely good. In short, learning to draw is learning to embrace the perfectionist in you. :P

Drawing from life, perusing book after book, studying theories on colour schemes and composition and whatnot, while very, very helpful, aren't really necessary to improve. To keep drawing and simply try to make it as best as you can, every single time, and constantly widening your horizons on what you can and cannot accomplish - that is necessary.

...I'll stop talking so dramatically now. ^^;

Trazoi

2011-05-27, 07:55 PM

Thanqol

2011-05-27, 08:21 PM

To me this thread looks like it's a wake-up call to kick myself into finally putting the hours getting my own cartooning up to scratch. I should get around to launching that webcomic I've always been planning to do in order to force me to learn how to draw. :smallsmile:

Every time I see this, it completely justifies the entire project :smallbiggrin:

Have you tried turning your reference picture upside down (and drawing your own image upside down as well)? The benefit of doing that is that it helps you think "I need to draw a line that curves like this" instead of "I am drawing an ear, ears should look like this" (symbolic section of the brain then messes it up).

That's an even better idea! I'll give that a try!

For the artists in the thread, is there a huge benefit in unlearning a horrible pencil grip? I'm a leftie and I grip my pencil like a fist, tucking the pencil into the base of my thumb and wedging the pencil tip between my pointer and middle fingers. Judging from what I've read it's pretty terrible and it means I hold the pencil close to vertical (an artifact of being a leftie), but it's been my grip since forever and everything else I've tried feels wrong. However it's probably a big reason why I prefer to only do drafts in pencil and then do everything digitially, preferrably with vectors where the lines aren't so dodgy.

Just speaking from myself, given that I had the exact same horrible fistgrip when I started this project a week ago, switching my grip and drawing from the elbow actually helps more than you'd think. It's weird as all hell to get used to, but when doing big, smooth lines it just works better. I'm still getting used to the grip and I think my drawing quality when using it is currently worse than using my natural grip, but I can see that once I can handle it right it'll be a whole lot better.

Irbis posted a link to some grip guides on page 1.

Trazoi

2011-05-27, 08:41 PM

That's an even better idea! I'll give that a try!
I think that was one of the first exercises in Betty Edwards "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain". It's a fairly popular drawing book; I'm sure the ANU Art Library has a copy (actually I just checked and it does, plus there's a few copies at the Chifley).

Just speaking from myself, given that I had the exact same horrible fistgrip when I started this project a week ago, switching my grip and drawing from the elbow actually helps more than you'd think. It's weird as all hell to get used to, but when doing big, smooth lines it just works better. I'm still getting used to the grip and I think my drawing quality when using it is currently worse than using my natural grip, but I can see that once I can handle it right it'll be a whole lot better.
I find it hard to draw large figures. Most of my cartoon doodles would fit on a page of A6 (quarter of an A4). Although I don't know if that's also an artifact of my poor grip, or simply from force of habit.

Thanqol

2011-05-27, 08:49 PM

I think that was one of the first exercises in Betty Edwards "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain". It's a fairly popular drawing book; I'm sure the ANU Art Library has a copy (actually I just checked and it does, plus there's a few copies at the Chifley).

Baller, I'll go by on Wednesday. I hang out in Chifley all the time anyway :smallwink: Thanks for checking for me!

I find it hard to draw large figures. Most of my cartoon doodles would fit on a page of A6 (quarter of an A4). Although I don't know if that's also an artifact of my poor grip, or simply from force of habit.

Yeah, that's the other thing shifting your grip does for you; going to a proper Violin Bow Grip (http://chiseledrocks.com/main/musings/topics/how_to_hold_the_pencil) made me naturally start drawing much larger figures. I switch to a pen grip when I want to do details (which is also a whole lot more precise than my natural grip). Honestly, the only thing that my natural grip had going for it was that I was used to it.

Irbis

2011-05-28, 05:36 AM

Baller, I'll go by on Wednesday. I hang out in Chifley all the time anyway :smallwink: Thanks for checking for me!

Yeah, that's the other thing shifting your grip does for you; going to a proper Violin Bow Grip (http://chiseledrocks.com/main/musings/topics/how_to_hold_the_pencil) made me naturally start drawing much larger figures. I switch to a pen grip when I want to do details (which is also a whole lot more precise than my natural grip). Honestly, the only thing that my natural grip had going for it was that I was used to it.

Um, Thanquol... If you click 'musings and articles' on the page you just linked, you'll find a small rant about "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" just mentioned. I'd read that if I were you, just to check if it will work for you, I don't know if the rant is right or not, but I'd trust someone who made that page (as he is one of the best artists I saw) more than random book advice.

Thanqol

2011-05-28, 06:09 AM

Um, Thanquol... If you click 'musings and articles' on the page you just linked, you'll find a small rant about "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" just mentioned. I'd read that if I were you, just to check if it will work for you, I don't know if the rant is right or not, but I'd trust someone who made that page (as he is one of the best artists I saw) more than random book advice.

Aaaa, conflicting advice! I'll give this a read after I finish my homework for the night :smallsmile:

Day Eight: No One Would Have Believed...

Today felt really good. I got this finished in about half the time I normally take, I only used models sparingly, and while there's still some weird proportions and odd lines everything just seemed to tighten up and work.

And hey, I lasted more than a week! That's a serious achievement, given my historical trend of seeing my first attempt at anything fail and immediately going emo and giving up.

Not much total time spent on drawing tonight, have some homework to catch up on, but sometime soon I'm going to try those inanimate objects I said I'd try!

Model:

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/1718/everyponylovesdashbytom.jpg

Finished Sketch:

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/839/img0012st.jpg

Time Taken: 50 Minutes
Materials: 2B Pencil, 0.8 Artliner Pen
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSifCF8k27A): War of the Worlds: The Musical

Trazoi

2011-05-28, 06:20 AM

billtodamax

2011-05-28, 07:25 AM

Neat thread. I've been thinking about doing something like this.

SiuiS

2011-05-28, 11:36 PM

I think my line quality is poor because I've got the habit of making multiple short strokes rather than long smooth ones. It gives me a little more control but you're right, it looks ugly. I'll try to cut down.

I've kept quiet because everything I've said about drawing has started to sound like really bunkum seduction advice. So proceed with caution :/

Paper is like skin. It has it's own texture, a flavor it adds to the lines. It is responsive. For those times when you absolutely want a good picture, use a pencil and make little tiny sketch lines. When you have the outline done and looking good, make one long, dark, slow and continuous stroke through the entire thing. Then erase; the hatch and sketch lines will be lifted first, giving you the single, continuous line you want.

The reason for this is the paper fibers buckle under the pencil lead, like softening and warming a muscle. The lead will follow the path you've already made, since it is easier to fit in the runnel than not, and you are just deepening your previous gouge into the paper's surface.

The downside is you will occasionally hit a point where the paper conspires against you, and it takes titanic will, focus and control to not allow that tiny squiggle the runnel want you to make to become a reality.

Faces also have proportions! But I'll be damned if I can remember all of them off-hand. An eye between the eyes, top of the nose from the centre point of the head, mouth's centre line is 1/3rd of the way down from the bottom of the nose to the chin, ears start at the eyebrows and end at the bottom of the nose. Something like that.

The space from pupil to pupil, tip of nose to bridge of nose, corner of mouth to pupil, edge of lips to other edge of lips, and from one end of an eyebrow to the other are all approximately the exact same distance. This rarely comes in handy, though, since expressions can change the functional layout, and the distance is the same per person, not per species. People are internally consistent, though. That's a plus :biggrin:

To me this thread looks like it's a wake-up call to kick myself into finally putting the hours getting my own cartooning up to scratch. I should get around to launching that webcomic I've always been planning to do in order to force me to learn how to draw. :smallsmile:

Have you tried turning your reference picture upside down (and drawing your own image upside down as well)? The benefit of doing that is that it helps you think "I need to draw a line that curves like this" instead of "I am drawing an ear, ears should look like this" (symbolic section of the brain then messes it up).

For the artists in the thread, is there a huge benefit in unlearning a horrible pencil grip? I'm a leftie and I grip my pencil like a fist, tucking the pencil into the base of my thumb and wedging the pencil tip between my pointer and middle fingers. Judging from what I've read it's pretty terrible and it means I hold the pencil close to vertical (an artifact of being a leftie), but it's been my grip since forever and everything else I've tried feels wrong. However it's probably a big reason why I prefer to only do drafts in pencil and then do everything digitially, preferrably with vectors where the lines aren't so dodgy.

You can also horizontal/vertical flip something AFTER YOU DRAW it, then continue to work on it. Using a backlight for this is a great way to break out of a rut where you can only draw, say, a left facing 3/4 profile but not a right one.

Um, Thanquol... If you click 'musings and articles' on the page you just linked, you'll find a small rant about "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" just mentioned. I'd read that if I were you, just to check if it will work for you, I don't know if the rant is right or not, but I'd trust someone who made that page (as he is one of the best artists I saw) more than random book advice.

Sounds like fun. Thank you Commander.

Thanqol

2011-05-29, 03:54 AM

I've kept quiet because everything I've said about drawing has started to sound like really bunkum seduction advice. So proceed with caution :/

Seductive, and interesting! Thanks for the advice, it's really helpful. I'm going to try it later tonight!

The space from pupil to pupil, tip of nose to bridge of nose, corner of mouth to pupil, edge of lips to other edge of lips, and from one end of an eyebrow to the other are all approximately the exact same distance. This rarely comes in handy, though, since expressions can change the functional layout, and the distance is the same per person, not per species. People are internally consistent, though. That's a plus :biggrin:

Anatomy, I am gradually learning thee! :smallbiggrin:

Day Nine (and Artosis): Hard Right down Steampunk Lane

Legs gave me trouble with this one, and I discovered that stars are hard. I accidentally regressed to my old grip for a while without noticing, which I wasn't happy to notice, which is partly why a fair few of the lines are dodgy. Overall I'm still making really good progress, I think, and I'm only glancing at my models occasionally for reference rather than the close copying I used to do.

The good thing about these daily pony contest entries is that they don't absorb my entire daily drawing timeslot, so I can spend the rest of the evening trying other things. Tried a few inanimate objects and perspectives, but when they gave me trouble I spent half an hour reading the beginner's guide I got when I started this topic which helped shed some light on how to structure these things.

Overall, feelin' good.

Model:

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/8661/trollestia2avatar.png

Finished Sketch:
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/7350/thanqoltrollixia.jpg

Time Taken: 1 Hour
Materials: 2B Pencil, 0.4 and 0.8 Artliner Pen
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juZudYP5pnU): Frozen Synapse Soundtrack

Kaytara

2011-05-29, 08:35 AM

Horse legs ARE hard. This might help: http://hippie.nu/~nocte/tutorial-currentchapter/img/basics/animalanatomy/horse-skeleton.jpeg

Thanqol

2011-05-30, 07:48 AM

Horse legs ARE hard. This might help: http://hippie.nu/~nocte/tutorial-currentchapter/img/basics/animalanatomy/horse-skeleton.jpeg

This does help! Blasted horses.

Day Ten: Productivity

I feel like I've hit a system that really works for me. A lot of my problems in sketching previously have been the result of trying to A) rush things, B) cut straight to a finished image and C) not knowing when to stop with the shading. Taking half an hour or so to sketch out the image with pencil, trying a whole bunch of things and taking the time to get the lines right makes everything work out so much better in completion time. Also, the idea of inking a finished product means that I can get away with not shading it at all and really let myself focus on getting clean, straight lines.

I've still gotta hella ways to go, but I'm really happy with tonight's piece. Makes me hopeful for the future. Gonna develop this particular style a bit more before branching off into something else!

Challenge: Draw a pony eating fruit.

Model:

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/988/129870949185n1299017691.jpg

Finished Sketch:

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/2323/magnetfruit.jpg

Time Taken: 1 Hour 15 mins
Materials: 2B Pencil, 0.4, 0.6 and 0.8 Artliner Pen
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIjcG51Tf10): Mr. James Dean

SiuiS

2011-05-30, 11:34 PM

Classic. You win, ol' Aus. You win.

Saeyan

2011-05-31, 04:05 AM

for those times when you absolutely want a good picture

I would contend that the opposite of that approach is more useful: use large, confident (but low-pressure) strokes to get down the main idea quickly, then do the short-stroke thing for the detailed final finish.

Thanqol

2011-05-31, 08:50 AM

Conflicting advice! Aaaa!

Day Eleven: Creative Thaumaturgy

Tonight's Mage game was excellent, as always. We dealt with some possessed guys who seemed to think we didn't know anything. We fought some Seers of the Throne who proved just how good guns were in magic duels. I ran over a hundred miles per hour to get away from an 18-wheeler.

And I accidentally built a GIANT SOUL ENGINE out of two cinemas which could project any emotion from the cinemas onto any group of people in LA - or suck any emotion out of LA and infuse it into the people in the cinema. Best accidental doomsday device ever.

Throughout this I was experimenting and playing around with drawing. I got a few decent sketches in and particularly played around with hands. Hands are hard! I've tried structuring them in a stick-figure format with marked joints - is this the way to go, or should I work more on just getting the curves right or what? I've been putting placeholder mittens on my sketches until I figure this out.

Challenge: Draw wings on a Pony

Model: None. This was entirely freehand from memory.

Finished Sketch:

http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/4850/applewings.jpg

Time Taken: ~1 1/2 hours?
Materials: 2B pencil, 0.8 Artliner Pen
Music: Only the sweet and seductive voice of my Storyteller.

Domochevsky

2011-05-31, 10:18 AM

Kaytara

2011-05-31, 12:18 PM

I would contend that the opposite of that approach is more useful: use large, confident (but low-pressure) strokes to get down the main idea quickly, then do the short-stroke thing for the detailed final finish.

I third this notion. :D

Even roughly scribbling out the whole picture, at least in terms of where what limb goes, is vital if you don't want to run into the problems of running out of space and/or getting skewed or weird proportions or a sucky composition.

silversnowe

2011-05-31, 07:55 PM

I haven't really read through the entire thread, so this may have been answered already, but is there a particular reason (budget, time) why you're not taking in-person lessons? There's nothing wrong with being self-taught, of course, but a good teacher can really speed up the learning process, particularly when you're learning the basics.

Skavensrule

2011-05-31, 08:51 PM

I could not get my computer to cooperate when trying to color in the sketch that I did for the Iron Avatar "Scandal" contest but anyone who wants to take a look it head on over to that thread. My intent was to color it and fill in a background but when that didn't work I finally wound up posting the raw sketch. I am not happy with the proportions of the left leg but that was the best one of about ten full sketches and dozens of partials that got ripped up. Even with a model right next to me Drawing is Hard.

Link to thread, post # 47 is the sketch in question. Tried to make the link direct to that post but it didn't work. Sometimes I really hate computers.http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197565&postcount=47

Thanqol

2011-05-31, 10:41 PM

I third this notion. :D

Even roughly scribbling out the whole picture, at least in terms of where what limb goes, is vital if you don't want to run into the problems of running out of space and/or getting skewed or weird proportions or a sucky composition.

*Nod nod*

I haven't really read through the entire thread, so this may have been answered already, but is there a particular reason (budget, time) why you're not taking in-person lessons? There's nothing wrong with being self-taught, of course, but a good teacher can really speed up the learning process, particularly when you're learning the basics.

A combination of not knowing where I'd go, memories of enormously unhelpful art classes in high school (if you want paperclip sculptures, I'M YOUR MAN, but I didn't learn jack else) and that the internet is full of really awesome advice. I could look into it if it's something I should be doing.

I could not get my computer to cooperate when trying to color in the sketch that I did for the Iron Avatar "Scandal" contest but anyone who wants to take a look it head on over to that thread. My intent was to color it and fill in a background but when that didn't work I finally wound up posting the raw sketch. I am not happy with the proportions of the left leg but that was the best one of about ten full sketches and dozens of partials that got ripped up. Even with a model right next to me Drawing is Hard.

If I posted this right this is the Iron Avatar, "Scandal" thread.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197565

To link to specific posts, click the #number at the top right of the post and then link to that URL.

I can't provide specific advice because I am teh suck, but I can say that getting out and doing stuff is awesome.

Thanqol

2011-06-01, 08:21 AM

Day Twelve: Every Day Is Bondage Day

Experimenting with new poses. That's where it's at.

Right now when I sketch people I tend to produce half decent sketches, but usually with no resemblance to the person I was sketching. Gradually getting better at drawing what I decided to draw rather than drawing whatever my hands give me.

Challenge: Draw a pony as a colt

Model:

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/8836/7852battlestargalactica.jpg

Finished Sketch:

http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/138/coltdefinition.jpg

Time Taken: ~1 1/2 hours
Materials: 2B pencil, 0.8, 0.2 Artliner Pen
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsuAKtHwny4): Hahahahahaha! (I can't believe I listened to that for over an hour)

Thanqol

2011-06-02, 05:34 AM

Day Thirteen: Shades of Defeat

This was mostly playing around with some more shading, which I've been avoiding for a while. I tried a bunch of different pencil techniques and types over this to get a better feel for what these looked like in practice.

Challenge: Draw a Pony Dreaming

Model:

http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/9524/tsgraffitin129917826776.jpg
Plus
http://gordonandthewhale.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/sandman-morpheus.jpg

Finished Sketch:

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/8042/img0007ynm.jpg

Time Taken: 1 1/2 Hours
Materials: 6B, 4B, 2B HB and H pencils, .8 Artliner pen
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o314ZqHp1-0): Yeah

Kaytara

2011-06-02, 06:00 AM

Technically, you can't draw a pony as a colt, only as a foal, which is gender-neutral just like pony, instead of male like colt and stallion. :smallamused:

I like how you gave the mane its own cast shadow. The horn is rounded and should be softly shaded into darkness too, though.

To be frank, though, I don't really see what you're trying to achieve with these pony sketches. At this stage, drawing is about trying to capture a particular object with a particular look on paper and make it look accurate in regards of anatomy and general recognition. Ideally, you can look at the end result, compare it to whatever references you were using, and see where you went wrong.

Using very, very heavily stylised figures seems very counterproductive to me, since nobody knows how they're actually supposed to look in terms of anatomy and 3-D shape and where which highlight is supposed to go.

It's the same reason why it's considered a bad idea for beginners to draw in anime or chibi, or any style using heavily distorted proportions or shapes. If you can wave away inaccuracies (both to viewers and to yourself) as "it's just the style", that's the very antithesis of trying to progress.

The general approach is, make realism your b**ch, then learn to distort it. :smallamused:

I'm aware that you do (heaps upon heaps of) other, non-pony work. I'm just complaining that all you show is the pony work. :P

SiuiS

2011-06-02, 06:53 AM

I would contend that the opposite of that approach is more useful: use large, confident (but low-pressure) strokes to get down the main idea quickly, then do the short-stroke thing for the detailed final finish.

Listening to everyone who chimed in, it sounds like I agree but we are talking about different steps. I also draw small, so what is to me a long line is probably a normal one to others. I'm an idiot savant as far as giving drawing advice goes.

To be frank, though, I don't really see what you're trying to achieve with these pony sketches. At this stage, drawing is about trying to capture a particular object with a particular look on paper and make it look accurate in regards of anatomy and general recognition. Ideally, you can look at the end result, compare it to whatever references you were using, and see where you went wrong.

Using very, very heavily stylised figures seems very counterproductive to me, since nobody knows how they're actually supposed to look in terms of anatomy and 3-D shape and where which highlight is supposed to go.

It's the same reason why it's considered a bad idea for beginners to draw in anime or chibi, or any style using heavily distorted proportions or shapes. If you can wave away inaccuracies (both to viewers and to yourself) as "it's just the style", that's the very antithesis of trying to progress.

The general approach is, make realism your b**ch, then learn to distort it. :smallamused:

I'm aware that you do (heaps upon heaps of) other, non-pony work. I'm just complaining that all you show is the pony work. :P

I think you are forgetting something, friend. Drawing is infinitely easier when drawing is fun. Making a smidgen of progress a day is better than not making a heap of progress because you dislike the lesson.

That being said, he's got you there Thanqol. Build up the skill to convert 3d to a drawing, even if it's no fun. It will be invaluable and very entertaining once you do figure it out.

As for hands... They are interesting constructs. I took an out by learning amine methods (which have indeed prevented me from really progressing), and years of bodywork and anatomy have slowly filtered in corrected my more egregious mistakes. I am content to be a polished novice artist, however. I suspect you have more ambition :smallsmile:

Thanqol

2011-06-02, 07:08 AM

Kaytara

2011-06-02, 08:48 AM

I think you are forgetting something, friend. Drawing is infinitely easier when drawing is fun. Making a smidgen of progress a day is better than not making a heap of progress because you dislike the lesson.

I would suggest that the key to making drawing fun is choice of object, not of style. As in, make drawing fun by drawing something you like drawing, not drawing it in a way that makes it "fun" and satisfying because the style makes mistakes less obvious and more difficult to judge.

Like many other girls, I started by drawing horses and unicorns and dragons and stuff. I didn't emulate a particular style or anything, but just tried to make them preeetttyyy. Sometimes I'd see a gorgeous painting online or in a book and get that "OMG I want to do something like that!" feeling and dash off to draw or paint. Eventually, I watched a tutorial on my Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron DVD that took the whole "draw skeleton & joints first, then fill muscles and flesh in" approach. I finally started looking at photos of skeletons and anatomy drawings and such. It was SO. MUCH. EASIER. It took longer, but the end result was better, and eventually, after you develop a feeling for it, you can more or less skip the skeleton step.

Anyway, I contend that drawing is fun when you draw something you like (if you don't have a particular passion for horsies/robots/whatever, fanart of your favourite thing ever can be a good choice), and you feel like you're getting better at it, so the effort feels rewarding rather than frustrating.

Taking the "start from stylised drawings" approach is very undrestandable, but ultimately very much putting the cart before the horse. ^^;

Saeyan

2011-06-02, 09:36 AM

Thanqol

2011-06-02, 10:00 AM

yep everything Kaytara said. Since we're sharing life stories now, here's mine in case anything useful can be gleaned from within:

1. tracing Pokemon manga
2. copying (the same) Pokemon manga
3. buying/borrowing and mostly reading instead of drawing from how-to-draw-manga books, but they introduced the build-from-stickman/skeleton approach which in retrospect was really the key thing
4. ???, wasted 20% (back then) of my life repeating step 3. Another 5% on randomly copying (quite poorly - and without thinking) photos off the internet to fulfil some school requirements. But I think this helped build familiarity with pencils
5. started trying to learn to draw 'realistic' things, failed miserably
6. still trying

... well, if I wanted something which had clear, concrete instructions I'd go to IKEA.

I've still got a really good feeling about this project as a whole, though, because even if I draw a bunch of jellyfishesque abominations, like tonight's attempts at hands, I still feel like I'm learning stuff. Every picture I do I try to include at least one experiment. The sketch I put up tonight what I really wanted to learn from it was what different pencil leads looked like side by side and play around with shading techniques.

And getting direct, "Don't do that, do this" advice is really how I learn the best, so this thread has been amazing. :smallbiggrin: If I haven't thanked everyone who chips in with advice recently, I need to do it again.

silversnowe

2011-06-03, 12:30 AM

If you really want to learn how to shade well, start with real life objects and start simple. The first thing I ever drew was a white, clay ball on a white table, with a single light source. If you think this is way too simple for you, it's not. It's very helpful in learning how lighting works and how to shade well.

And I still recommend a teacher if you can find a good one, preferably private. Classroom teachers don't have the time to devote to you as there is not a good teacher to student ratio. If you can't or don't want to, at least find a friend who is an artist who is willing to watch you while you draw. There are a lot of little things that you can do that won't seem apparent to you, but will be obvious to an observer. The advantage of this over posting your drawings is that they can help you during your process, while forum-goers can only give you advice when you're already done your drawing.

SiuiS

2011-06-03, 05:41 AM

I would suggest that the key to making drawing fun is choice of object, not of style. As in, make drawing fun by drawing something you like drawing, not drawing it in a way that makes it "fun" and satisfying because the style makes mistakes less obvious and more difficult to judge.

That is actually what I meant - that I believe he is drawing/posting ponies because they are a fun subject matter, not that he should stick with the style. My apologies if I came off otherwise, friend :smallsmile:

If you really want to learn how to shade well, start with real life objects and start simple. The first thing I ever drew was a white, clay ball on a white table, with a single light source. If you think this is way too simple for you, it's not. It's very helpful in learning how lighting works and how to shade well.

The devil take that clay ball, and swallow it sideways! That is hard. I've been thinking about the multiple shadow types on an orb for a couple days now. Never got the hang of it...

Congratulations, Thanqol. I am about two weeks away from feeling inferior enough to actually start learning the craft, instead of living vicariously through your progress. I hope you're happy! :biggrin:

SiuiS

2011-06-03, 05:43 AM

Double post :/

Thanqol

2011-06-03, 07:22 AM

The devil take that clay ball, and swallow it sideways! That is hard. I've been thinking about the multiple shadow types on an orb for a couple days now. Never got the hang of it...

Congratulations, Thanqol. I am about two weeks away from feeling inferior enough to actually start learning the craft, instead of living vicariously through your progress. I hope you're happy! :biggrin:

As usual, the best part of this thread is inspiring people to join in :smallbiggrin:

Will look into getting a teacher too.

Day Fourteen: Why won't people be more lazy?

Sat down in my lounge room today and started drawing. I started off with trying to draw my dog, thinking "He's lazy enough to not have to worry!" I quickly discovered even lazy dogs twitch and react to every single noise coming from the kitchen, which threw me off at first. I quickly began speeding up my process, trying to get as many important details in before the dog moved again. It was a challenge, but a fun one.

Then I moved on to the next most immobile creature in my house: My dad when watching the game. I discovered roughly the same problem. It was interesting, though, and I'm going to do that more often.

Also tried another bunch of inanimate objects, with varying degrees of success.

Finished Sketch:
#1: Dog
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9072/img0008yqy.jpg
#2: Dad
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/6540/img0009vjt.jpg

Time Taken: 2 hours
Materials: 2B Pencil
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1FE7yHGcAw): Sexy Naughty Bitchy Me

Ninjaman

2011-06-03, 01:01 PM

Scary dog. They both look quite... blurry i guess.

Domochevsky

2011-06-03, 01:46 PM

Yah, needs better picture quality and/or lighting. >_>

Thanqol

2011-06-03, 10:05 PM

The lines themselves are really sketchy and blurry because those were my worklines. I would have hardened them into stronger and darker ones that would show up better digitally, but both of my subjects shifted before I had the chance to do that. I considered going on from memory, but by then it was getting late.

Still gettin' around to that scanner, I promise. :smallwink:

Thanqol

2011-06-04, 05:55 AM

Day Fifteen: Goodbye, Art

Just a quick and simple one today because I'm way behind on other stuff. This was both easy and fun to draw, particularly the eyebrows. I'll go back to realism tomorrow.

The experiment here was with different type of hats and expressions. I think I learned something about curvature on at least one.

Model:

http://ponibooru.413chan.net/_images/ab3012b7dc7487d913bb6442c97900cf/6564%20-%20hydra.png

Finished Sketch:

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/6199/img0013yf.jpg

Time Taken: 1 hour
Materials: 2B Pencil, 0.6 and 0.8 pen
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNlrqlpEf1g&feature=related): Hello, Mary Lou

Thanqol

2011-06-05, 05:38 AM

Day Sixteen: Follow Through

Did some intense staring at my own left hand. I tried a bunch of sketches of it marking all the joints and bends in a bunch of different positions and angles. I did these stickman style, which works for larger hand drawings but I'm working on a shorthand method for drawing smaller hands. No big breakthroughs tonight, just a lot of hands that are gradually getting less weird.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8281/img0001fh.jpg

Time Taken: 2 hours
Materials: 2B Pencil
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFSA6tgX6Rg): Honey And The Moon

SiuiS

2011-06-05, 07:36 AM

Hands are the one thing where style is irrelevant. You need to grok the anatomy to really draw a hand. A quick net search reveals nothing of use under "drawing hands" so try looking up hand anatomy?

Also, consider that drawing a hand requires perspective, proportions, forshortening, anatomical positioning, AND structural knowledge to get it right. Study hands constantly, look up their bones. Really look.

That meat at the base of your thumb, why is it shaped that way? Why are the bones in your palm staggered instead of straight? Do you have hitch-hiker's thumb? Where do the creases in the palm sit (they are mostly identical across every human hand - chimpanzees have different hand creases, and thus probably different structure)?

Perhaps I'm over thinking it though. It's rather late/early.

Flickerdart

2011-06-05, 01:53 PM

Hands don't really have set proportions. An easy way to approximate them, though, is drawing a "house" with a square body and asymmetrical "roof" that peaks 1/3 of the way in. Then put fingers along that "roof": middle finger at the apex, index and ring fingers at the same level around it and the pinkie at the end. The fingerbones are more or less the same size from there on, and so will have the same "roof" relationship. Thumbs follow the "roof" too - the joint is level with the pinkie knuckle and the tip is level with the first joint of the pinkie.

If you need to practice anatomy, try looking at your page as little as possible so that you draw what's there as opposed to what you remember was there.

SiuiS

2011-06-05, 07:52 PM

Hands don't really have set proportions. An easy way to approximate them, though, is drawing a "house" with a square body and asymmetrical "roof" that peaks 1/3 of the way in. Then put fingers along that "roof": middle finger at the apex, index and ring fingers at the same level around it and the pinkie at the end. The fingerbones are more or less the same size from there on, and so will have the same "roof" relationship. Thumbs follow the "roof" too - the joint is level with the pinkie knuckle and the tip is level with the first joint of the pinkie.

a profession-related quibble; hands do have proportions, but they are consistent to the individual, not species. Like the Cun from shiatsu

Thanqol

2011-06-06, 06:26 AM

Thanks for the advice, guys, that's super helpful :smallsmile:

Day Seventeen: Of Everything That Stands, The End

Oh wow, this one was a challenge.

I purchased a book on anatomy and some coloured pencils today. I was going to do an experiment with human proportions and something for the daily challenge. The challenge turned out to be a lot harder than I thought - So many limbs! So much rope! Went through half a dozen failed sketches! I eventually finally figured the damn thing out and produced something that makes me smile. And now I'm gonna rest my arm and try again for realistic tomorrow.

Model: None! I did this blind!

Finished Sketch

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/483/img0003bdm.jpg

Time Taken: 3 Hours @_@
Materials: 2B Pencil, H Pencil (for the silver colour), Watercolour Pencils, 0.4 and .8 artliner pen.
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGXeXm0uMDo): The End

Ninjaman

2011-06-06, 07:30 AM

You could try to draw the cage more dimensional. That way you could practise some 3d.

Thanqol

2011-06-06, 07:56 AM

You could try to draw the cage more dimensional. That way you could practise some 3d.

Yeah, that' came to mind. I haven't practiced enough objects! I'm gonna start practising more objects!

Ninjaman

2011-06-07, 06:01 AM

Yeah, that' came to mind. I haven't practiced enough objects! I'm gonna start practising more objects!

Try doing that next?

Thanqol

2011-06-07, 08:34 AM

Try doing that next?

Doing that next!

Day Eighteen: Scroungin'

Forgot to bring my sketchbook with me to the game where I was going to practise. Urghh. Managed to scrounge a crummy pencil and some printer paper and do some sketching regardless. Did a whole bunch of inanimate objects, as promised, but it's remarkable how much worse it was when using bad materials. Still learning about curvature, shading and perspective and feel like tonight wasn't wasted artistically.

Sorry about the picture quality, but it's late, I'm too tired to go over the lines, and the game ended on a really downbeat note (my character is almost certainly going to be murdered horribly sometime next session, and it seems like my choice is 'murdered by party members' or 'murdered by NPCs'.)

Such is life.

Sketch: (About 4 double sided pages like this)

http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/9688/img0006in.jpg

Time taken: 2 1/2 hours of sketching done
Materials: Scavenged pencil and printer paper
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAxzr9BdnkA): What It Is

Thanqol

2011-06-08, 06:57 AM

Day Nineteen: Pony Night At The Inventory

I should totally have spent the day doing realistic human pictures.

But this was so much more fun.

I'll do more real people tomorrow, I promise.

Finished Sketch:

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/6184/ponynightattheinventory.jpg

Time taken: 1 1/2 Hours
Materials: Watercolours, 2B 6B Pencils, 0.4 0.8 pen
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_WDG8iLT1o): Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me

Thanqol

2011-06-09, 08:01 AM

Day Twenty: Totally Addicted

This is fun!

I'm not not-terrible yet, goodness no, I'm miles off. But I'm getting to really enjoy drawing! Tonight was productive and informative.

Finished Sketch:

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/4513/img0016gu.jpg
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/5968/img0015wd.jpg

Time taken: 2+ Hours
Materials: 2B Pencil
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmwGGLrDvfE): Totally Addicted To Bass

Kaytara

2011-06-09, 12:22 PM

Nice, I'm seeing some progress there, personally, especially the faces. The picture of the pony in the cage, though with logical errors (I'm talking about the back bars that seem to vanish into nothing), feels a lot more... aesthetic, I guess. Balanced. By all means, keep doing "blind" work now and then. :)

This is probably going to sound like it comes out of nowhere, but I've found that a really good way to get a grip on drawing faces and their three-dimensionality is sculpting. Grab a bar of soap (the solid, half-transparent kind), a smallish knife, and keep chiselling away at it until it looks like a three-dimensional head.

Like I said, it can be very helpful for figuring out the three-dimensional shape of faces, or anything else, really.

Thanqol

2011-06-09, 09:13 PM

billtodamax

2011-06-10, 04:25 AM

I was going to say we have solid soap in Canberra, but I realised the soap we have is from France.

You can probably find some solid soap though.

Thanqol

2011-06-10, 06:31 AM

Day 21: Following Orders

Well, if you say so.

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/772/img0001eh.jpg

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/9850/img0005ep.jpg

(Did some legit sketching too, just nothing quite as comical)

Time taken: 20 mins
Materials: knife, potato
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO_QntXc-c4): Let The Bodies Hit The Floor

SiuiS

2011-06-10, 06:57 AM

Potato is much more giving. Harder to carve. More likely to lose drawing thumb- undo all progress.

Make expenses for drawing, buy soap special for this purpose. Why do I type poor russian accent? Who knows.

Trazoi

2011-06-10, 07:53 PM

Huh. That's both weird and very cool. Are potatoes acceptable substitutes? I don't think we have SOAP in Australia. (Or at least, my house switched to liquid forms).
Geez, I shudder to think of the state of hygiene in Canberra if they've stopped selling soap. :smalltongue:

I've never tried soap sculpting. I've played with home-made Play-doh semi-regularly, but the process isn't the same (it's not subtractive in the scene that sculpting is). I'll put it on my mental list of things to consider.

KingLemmiwinks

2011-06-10, 10:56 PM

Considering that soap is really easy to make (no, really, it was one of the many things that pioneer households would manufacture) I can't imagine that it'd be that hard to find someone selling bulk soap bars somewhere, even in Australia. Look at any "big box" store or anywhere that sells goods in bulk.

I did a quick perusal and by me it's like 7 bucks for 20 bars of soap, and it's even name-brand instead of the terrible stuff you can probably find.

Also, though I'm not an artist by any stretch of the imagination, I would second the soap idea to a great degree. It's both a great way to rough out models in three dimensions as well as figuring out the properties of a material. We use soap as "trainers" for when young kids are just learning knifework in Scouts.

Just remember that soap cannot be rushed very easily. Thin slices work wonders; if you ever feel yourself having to put decent pressure upwards on the edge of the blade, you're pulling too much on the material and are bound to make it splinter unhappily one of the times.

Oh, and remember the basics of knife safety: danger circle, carving away from yourself, and respect for the knife. It's hard to post on GitP without thumbs or other ascetically-pleasing digits!

Thanqol

2011-06-11, 08:37 AM

The soap thing was a joke (though given the state of some of my friends, it might not be much of one)

Day 22: Masking Tape

Today was a challenge in expressions. It was good fun, and I reckon I'm getting a real feel for designing drawings without models. Still trying things that work and things that don't, mixing up real people drawing and real objects with stylised stuff. I like doing stylised pictures so much that attempting to shut down and focus on real-life drawing exclusively seems foolish, but I am trying to keep my practicals in both high.

Finished Sketch:

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/9033/themanymasks.jpg

Time Taken: 1 1/2 hours
Materials: 2B, 6B pencil, 0.8 and 0.4 Artliner Pen, Watercolour pencils.
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCRX-EXR3_U): Crowd Chant

Recaiden

2011-06-11, 11:27 AM

Needs more eyebrows. Other than that, I quite like them.

Thanqol

2011-06-11, 07:29 PM

Needs more eyebrows. Other than that, I quite like them.

Alas, the challenge was expressions without eyebrows. And I see I forgot the one where he draws some eyebrows on with magic marker.

Thanqol

2011-06-12, 04:12 AM

Day 23: By The Book

Busted out my new guidebook proper and tried drawing with these newfangled things like proportions and suchwith. Tough as hell, but I finally figured out how to draw a set of lips that didn't look like two sausages fighting for superiority. Day is justified!

Finished Sketch:

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/8651/img0004khx.jpg

Time Taken: 1 1/2 hours
Materials: 2B pencil
Music (http://www.clockworkquartet.com/music.php): The Watchmaker's Apprentice

Fri

2011-06-12, 04:28 AM

Wanna advice from a real art major? I dunno if you got this advice yet, but here's an advice that we got at the first year. Dunno, this might work for everyone or not.

Anyway, my prof told me that the problem with starting artist is, the coordination between their hand and their eyes and their mind is whacked. I mean, you know what you see right? But your mind and your hand isn't coordinated and turning it into lines in your mind, and the turning of the lines in your mind into movement in your hand isn't coordinated.

So here's how you should train.

One of the training is, train yourself drawing straight lines. We spent pages in ours sketchbooks just drawing straight lines, nothing else. That's less important than the next one though.

Buy a drawing pen, and start drawing without looking at your hand and the paper (much) and without erasing it. Put your eyes in the object, not the paper. If you draw the line wrong, simply draw another line on top of it. Try to not to draw in short jerky lines, it's the worst thing you can do to your drawing. It's not only for this practice actually, this is important tip. Try to draw in longer lines when you're sketching. And then start to draw everything. Animals, your computer, tables, everything.

Draw them straightly. Don't, for example, draw a simple box first when you're drawing your computer. Draw them straight from what you see.

Of course, at first it'll look bad. But you'll see progress sooner or later. We're supposed to draw like, at least fifty items per week, but well, you might have better things to do, so draw at your convenience :smalltongue:

edit: to show what I meant, here's some example of some plane drawing I drew in my leisure time.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/Faris/plane1copy.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/Faris/plane2copy.jpg

Notice how I draw lines over other lines rather than erasing them and how I draw long lines rather than short jerky ones.

Thanqol

2011-06-12, 04:48 AM

Wanna advice from a real art major? I dunno if you got this advice yet, but here's an advice that we got at the first year. Dunno, this might work for everyone or not.

Thanks a lot for the advice, I'll work on that. :smallsmile:

Fri

2011-06-12, 04:51 AM

Good luck! I love when people actually tries to learn to draw rather than whines that they can't draw or how they wishes they started drawing sooner. I'm not the best artist around, so don't take everything I said without grains of salts :smallbiggrin:

Oh yeah, some other tips I remember was, bigger sketchbook/paper helps, and try to not just moving your wrist when drawing, try to move your entire arm.

Thanqol

2011-06-12, 08:30 AM

Good luck! I love when people actually tries to learn to draw rather than whines that they can't draw or how they wishes they started drawing sooner. I'm not the best artist around, so don't take everything I said without grains of salts :smallbiggrin:

That's a malady that covers every discipline, skill or practice everywhere :smallwink: My philosophy is just to do stuff because even if the stuff I do is terrible, at the end of the day I'll have more stuff than if I didn't do stuff.

It makes me sound like a simpleton, but I'm a productive simpleton.

Oh yeah, some other tips I remember was, bigger sketchbook/paper helps, and try to not just moving your wrist when drawing, try to move your entire arm.

*Nod* That's been pointed out to me. I try to do it, but find myself occasionally slipping when I'm not thinking about it. Working on it!

Kaytara

2011-06-12, 09:19 AM

Draw them straightly. Don't, for example, draw a simple box first when you're drawing your computer. Draw them straight from what you see.

The rest sounds pretty sound (if sometimes boring on the level of level-grinding in an MMORPG), but I really have to wonder at that. Drawing straight from what you see, without any preliminary guidelines, sounds like the recipe to not having stuff line up properly in the end. Drawing some sort of outline or general sketch of the shape of the thing sounds like it can only do good - you train your eye/hands in replicating the basic shape and then you have a frame of reference when you move on to further levels of detail. It's like you progressively break down the object into smaller segments as you work along, based on where these segments are in relation to each other and in relation to the whole. Sort of comparable to those grids you make for copying drawings, only without the actual grids.

Good luck! I love when people actually tries to learn to draw rather than whines that they can't draw or how they wishes they started drawing sooner.
arm.

Seconded like hell on this, though. :D A small pet peeve of mine (and I suppose a fairly wretched one, I mean, who the hell gets annoyed at compliments?) is when I get (or see others get) comments along the lines of "Wow, I wish I was as talented/blessed as you are!". Like "It's just luck or talent you were born with, and I wasn't, so there's nothing to be done". When you KNOW that your current level of skill is the product of literally years upon years of practice, practice and practice, it sounds almost... dismissive. Like they're dismissing everything you went through in order to make themselves feel better about not having chosen to do the same thing, for whatever reason. I don't think I've ever actually heard of someone who, at what I suppose is considered "past the prime" of trying to learn new skills, decided to just go out and learn to draw.

In short: Thanqol rocks.

Saeyan

2011-06-12, 09:20 AM

Blind contour drawing (what Fri described) is fun for laughs, though frankly I've never seen the point of it other than to make you actually see what's in front of you instead of some mental picture of the object. Which you can probably achieve by studying the object carefully with your eyes alone.

Still...fun times :smalltongue:

May I also suggest doing semi-blind contour drawing, which is looking down at set intervals (not too often of course) to make sure your pen nib is where it's supposed to be. It's closer to what normally occurs during a drawing, and I think it trains you to gauge proportions better than blind drawing.

left: semi-blind, right: blind. the semi-blind still has big proportion issues, but each unit e.g. jacket, jeans is in proportion with itself. the blind...well...
http://sigmaplus.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/fd2.jpg

P.S. re: Kaytara's opinion on Fri's comment, I prefer Fri's approach.

Domochevsky

2011-06-12, 11:44 AM

...
P.S. re: Kaytara's opinion on Fri's comment, I prefer Fri's approach.

Let it be known that i support Kaytara on this issue. :smallbiggrin:

(Breaking things up into basic shapes and then filing them down is a more productive approach in the long run, as it helps visualising things in your head. After you got the experience and eye for shapes you can leave the basic breakdown away, but it always helps if in doubt.)

That being said, the other stuff sounds solid. :smallsmile:

Ninjaman

2011-06-12, 12:10 PM

Snip.

snip.

snip.

snip.

I LOVE THIS THREAD!:biggrin:

Thanqol

2011-06-13, 04:15 AM

I LOVE THIS THREAD!:biggrin:

Total agreement. This was one of my better ideas. Ya'll rock.

Day 24: Profiling Is Not Discrimination

I'm going to try more blind/semi blind draws tomorrow, when I'm at a tabletop and will have a lot of chumps sitting around being all sketchable (perfect place to get models is tabletops RPGs). Today, though, I just worked on proportions some more.

The finished sketch is kinda bare bones simple, but I tried a bunch of things and this was the most presentable piece. Heads are way bigger than I thought they were.

Sketch:

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/617/img0009wto.jpg

Time: 2 Hours
Materials: 2B Pencil
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-lW-9okE5Y): Premonition

SiuiS

2011-06-13, 05:17 AM

Thanks a lot for the advice, I'll work on that. :smallsmile:

So will I; that sounds rather productive.

The finished sketch is kinda bare bones simple, but I tried a bunch of things and this was the most presentable piece. Heads are way bigger than I thought they were.

Eeeyup. We tend to think of important details as bigger, and less important details as smaller. So eyes and mouth, being the archetype of the face, always seem huge compared to their actual sizes. Doesn't help that anime is based off of wonky eyes, and it's what we are shown.

Try getting ahold of some old marvel or DC comi books, give those a sketch. The eyes are really good facsimiles, for those times you want an eye to look like an eye and need to fudge it. I call it faking proficiency.

Just, if you do decide to branch out it should be in addition to your current curriculum. Don't take time out of actual productive work for a simple thought exercise, aye? If all you have is an hour, then spend the full hour an actual art workings, not cheats like cartoon eyes and proportions.

Smight

2011-06-13, 09:38 AM

this guy has lot of how to draw videos maby some of tham can be useful

http://www.youtube.com/user/markcrilley

Thanqol

2011-06-14, 10:01 AM

Day 25: Exactly The Right Number Of Terrestrials

Did a tonne of sketching at tonight's game. Also, my character didn't end up being murdered by either the party or the NPCs but MAY have become next season's big bad in the process. I consider this a total victory.

Here's one random pick, but I filled many pages.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3995/oldguyb.jpg

Time: 5 Hours
Materials: 2B Pencil
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f4O-0BH8kc): Searching

Glass Mouse

2011-06-14, 04:34 PM

In short: Thanqol rocks.

So very seconded.

I know I'm just being an echo here, but I think it's downright awesome that you just do it. The progression through these 25 days is very, very impressive, as well. It really looks like you're starting to get the hang of faces.

An exercise you could try if you don't have enough already, is drawing negative space. Look at a chair, then draw where the chair isn't. It's another way to take in objects, and it's pretty fun.

Heh. Your project sent me down memory lane for a moment here. I drew (badly) when I was younger, then stopped out of boredom. Two years ago, I picked up drawing again, and in that time my skill level has gone from this (http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z250/GlassMouse/Arcanus.jpg) (2009) to this (http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/165/6/c/saromihe_by_glassmouse89-d3iwzn9.jpg) (today). That's with drawing almost every day, but - admittedly - a pretty lazy way of learning, so I probably could've progressed a LOT more.
Just to tell you, you're not alone in having started late, and with the way you're going right now, you're sure to go far in a short time.

Once again: You rock!

Thanqol

2011-06-15, 08:25 AM

So very seconded.

I know I'm just being an echo here, but I think it's downright awesome that you just do it. The progression through these 25 days is very, very impressive, as well. It really looks like you're starting to get the hang of faces.

An exercise you could try if you don't have enough already, is drawing negative space. Look at a chair, then draw where the chair isn't. It's another way to take in objects, and it's pretty fun.

Totally doing this tomorrow, thanks for the suggestion! :smallsmile:

Once again: You rock!

Thank you so much :smallredface: That's really encouraging to hear.

Day 26: Up Like A Pyre

Oh god, did not have much time for practise this evening, have a test tomorrow. Apologies for the super dodgy image; got a Commerce final tomorrow and couldn't do more than the bare minimum. At least I made up for it with sheer volume from yesterday.

Oh gracious, going to need a new sketchbook soon.

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/3198/img0012qt.jpg

Time taken: 45 mins
Materials: 2B Pencil
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05rR7nozsYg): Aether Shanty

Thanqol

2011-06-16, 01:53 AM

Day 27: First, Draw Nothing

Tried drawing negative space today, as Glass Mouse suggested.

Woah.

I think I accidentally blew my mind.

My experiments all look wrong and dodgy tonight, sure, but I think I had some sort of epiphany when it comes to drawing objects. After drawing a few incomprehensible shapeless masses of negative space I started realising that objects have shapes. It's a pretty lame realisation, but realising that I've got to draw the SHAPE of the object before I draw the object is like... woah.

http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/9558/img0004ky.jpg

Time Taken: 1 Hour
Materials: 2B Pencil
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDBlqu6KF4k): Minority (Also, one hour of that song is too much)

Fri

2011-06-16, 02:04 AM

That's awesome. And anyway, on the excercise I suggested earlier, it's also not that I recommend you to do that for drawing all the time, it's a training so your mind and your hand could coordinate better. anyway, thumbs up for you as always.

Thanqol

2011-06-17, 01:29 AM

Day 28: Sharks In A Bathtub

Note: I did not actually look up what a shark looked like for this. Given that limitation I don't think this was terrible. And it was heaps of fun.

http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/57/img0008pn.jpg

Time Taken: 1 1/2 hours
Materials: 4B pencil (I actually love my 4B now)
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLQW_DKQQ8g): This Song Made Man A Fluttershy

Flickerdart

2011-06-17, 11:06 AM

Thanqol

2011-06-18, 07:28 AM

Pro tip: because we are less familiar with the way animals look than with the way humans do, you can get away with oddly proportioned animals. A lot of the time, their real proportions look much weirder.
However, you want to keep an eye on your linear perspective.

*Nod nod* Yeah, perspective was the major botch in that piece. I'm gonna work on that some more soon.

Day 29: Pictures In My Head

I'm getting better and better at drawing things I'm imagining without referring to models. This is really important as one of the major reasons I'm doing this is to be able to get characters and ideas out of my imagination and onto paper.

Also, there's been almost a week in this thread without a pony drawings. I'll get back to drawing real people tomorrow.

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/5631/thedreamm.jpg

Time Taken: 1 Hour
Materials: 2B, 4B Pencils, 0.8 Pen
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ0Nkom2dGU): How Can You Sleep?

Thanqol

2011-06-19, 06:28 AM

Day 30: The Scary Stuff

Today I tried two things that I have, to this point, avoided like the plague because they're scary, scary things. Namely, foreshortening and clothing folds. Results were... surprisingly decent. I'm almost inclined to say that these are some of the most lifelike things I've ever done. Wow.

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/4374/img0006wr.jpg

Time Taken: 1 hour
Materials: 4B Pencil
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbO_05FELKE): Something's Gotta Give

Thanqol

2011-06-20, 03:48 AM

Day 31: Application

Wow. I've been doing this for an entire month now.

I decided to flesh out one of my stick figure poses that I did some weeks ago as practise, applying some of the things I'd learned. Didn't work out perfect, but learned more things. Made progress. Gonna keep making progress.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6200/img0005ic.jpg

Time Taken: 1 1/2 hours
Materials: 2B, 4B pencils
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbpiUw6Vh8Y): Atom Bomb

Thanqol

2011-06-21, 08:47 AM

Day 32: Yes, No, Click

Wow, hats off to my ST for keeping that session's space-time-fate insanity clear and consistent despite being full of space-time-fate bull****.

Also, did some more sketching. Maintain practicals. Feelin' good.

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/9503/img0008mowa.jpg

Time: 3 hours semiconstant sketching
Materials: 4B pencil
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLtDJyuXVqY): Spiral Ladder

billtodamax

2011-06-22, 02:03 AM

Your clothing is very good but something feels off about the perspective.

Thanqol

2011-06-22, 05:46 AM

Your clothing is very good but something feels off about the perspective.

Perspective is hard! Tomorrow, I'm going to work purely on perspective. Thanks for the comment :smallsmile:

Day 33: Contractual Obligation

As an Australian, I'm contractually obligated to draw at least one picture of Ned Kelly. There are things I like and really don't like about this picture, most of the flaws relating to perspective as mentioned. I hear one exercise is to draw the same figure at different distances to see how it changes things, so I'm going to work on that.

http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/456/img0001qx.jpg

Time: 2 hours
Materials: 2B 4B pencil
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELFaFkpBVIs): Stand

Recaiden

2011-06-22, 08:16 AM

Is it just me or does he have eleven fingers? And the hat looks awkwardly shaped. I do like the way he's standing. Keep up the good work. You rock, Thanqol.

Thanqol

2011-06-22, 09:49 AM

Is it just me or does he have eleven fingers? And the hat looks awkwardly shaped. I do like the way he's standing. Keep up the good work. You rock, Thanqol.

*Counts fingers* D'oh! And thanks for the pick on the helmet, a small change to the shape of the line at the top should fix that :smallsmile: Cheers man.

Fri

2011-06-22, 10:31 AM

Thanqol

2011-06-23, 01:48 AM

that one's actually pretty good. Here, I'm going to link you my favourite drawing tips/tutorial, though even if I call it that it's more of a useful general tips/idea, really. I don't think I've linked you this before.

http://goblinqueeen.deviantart.com/art/Bringing-Drawings-to-Life-22521939

Oh hey, that's really useful! Thanks!

Day 34: Solving Problems Through Technological Superiority

The way I figured it, sooner or later I was going to have to a) Get a scanner b) Learn how to use Photoshop, so I decided to skip the middleman and order a drawing tablet. Today it arrived!

And we're pretty much back to basic principles, because it feels super different to drawing on paper. Part of it is that I'm looking at a screen rather than the page while doing it. Gonna go back to practising drawing straight lines and basic circles again. But I can already apply a lot of what I learned doing traditional art to this same thing.

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/3503/day34e.jpg

Time Taken: 2 1/2 hours
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH4Se7nyl2s): I Love Work

Thanqol

2011-06-23, 09:32 AM

Day 34B: EVEN MORE SUPERIOR TECHNOLOGY

Okay, getting the hang of this.

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2996/day34b.jpg

Domochevsky

2011-06-23, 12:17 PM

Tablet, hm? Good idea there. :smallsmile:
(And oddly enough it helps already with the "don't look at your hand while drawing" by pure nature of how it works. So i guess that's a permanent checkmark. :smallwink: )

Trazoi

2011-06-23, 11:49 PM

Ooh, what type of tablet did you order?

If you've got a small tablet like a Wacom Bamboo, like it and want to upgrade, you can get a decent education discount on the Wacom Intuos range. You can save about A$100-200 on the medium sized A5 tablet. I picked one up a few years back and it's been solid since; even though I'm still pretty crap at drawing it's been totally worth it for the occasions when I've needed it.

Thanqol

2011-06-24, 12:10 AM

Trazoi

2011-06-24, 12:23 AM

I got the Wacom Bamboo Fun, the medium size one. Uuuuuunfortunately I paid full retail price from their website without looking into educational discounts. OH WELL.
I think the educational discount on the Bamboo Fun is only significant if you're buying the 10 pack. :smallsmile:

The educational prices aren't a huge difference for the tablets, but it's big enough to worth looking into for the Intuos. The difference however for Adobe software is insane.

Thanqol

2011-06-24, 12:28 AM

I think the educational discount on the Bamboo Fun is only significant if you're buying the 10 pack. :smallsmile:

The educational prices aren't a huge difference for the tablets, but it's big enough to worth looking into for the Intuos. The difference however for Adobe software is insane.

Oh, there's something. The Intuos was about $2800 out of my price range though :smalltongue: . The one I got came with Photoshop Elements and Corel paint, which I'm still experimenting within.

Trazoi

2011-06-24, 12:43 AM

Oh, there's something. The Intuos was about $2800 out of my price range though :smalltongue:.
I think that's a Cintiq (the one with a touchscreen LCD panel). Or else you're shopping at a really overpriced store. :smallsmile:

The Bamboo comes with a version of Corel Paint? That's pretty neat.

Edit: Just checked the prices. The newer Intuos appears to gone up. I'm sure I only paid about A$250 for mine. Admittedly this was a few years back and an older model, but it's a fair bit less than the A$380 or so they're asking for now.

Ninjaman

2011-06-24, 01:55 AM

I got the Wacom Bamboo Fun, the medium size one. Uuuuuunfortunately I paid full retail price from their website without looking into educational discounts. OH WELL.

High five!

Thanqol

2011-06-24, 06:54 AM

I think that's a Cintiq (the one with a touchscreen LCD panel). Or else you're shopping at a really overpriced store. :smallsmile:

The Bamboo comes with a version of Corel Paint? That's pretty neat.

Edit: Just checked the prices. The newer Intuos appears to gone up. I'm sure I only paid about A$250 for mine. Admittedly this was a few years back and an older model, but it's a fair bit less than the A$380 or so they're asking for now.

Ah yes, you're right that was the Cintiq I was thinking of.

Day 35: Paaaaaints!

Paints are fun! I also do not understand them at all. I also am forced into understanding them because the 'fill' command is a tricky beast, as likely to cover my entire canvass as to fill a select area. I find one specific water tool to be great for colouring because it gives a nice, muted colour and doesn't obliterate the lines under it.

Still playing with the thing. Layers are the most useful thing ever.

http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/1473/day35.jpg

Time: 2 Hours
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlBhmegsEP4): Skyrim

Thanqol

2011-06-25, 06:45 AM

Day 36: Enthusiasm

This is SO FUN! Screw video games, this drawing bizzo is where it's at. I'm so glad I got this tablet, there's so much I just want to try and mess around with!

I'm going to go back to drawing humanoids tomorrow, and work on perspective and stuff again. I swear.

http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/3610/day36.jpg

Time Taken: 2 Hours
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP1XJiBvE_c): No Leaf Clover.

Thanqol

2011-06-26, 06:38 AM

Day 37: A Return to Humanity

This tablet. I love it so much.

I think I'm going to stick to using paint brushes for hair in the immediate future; they add a nice irregularity. I need to work on smoother, narrower lines; I actually went over a few edges with the eraser to narrow them down a bit.

Oh yes, and I learned that a minor change to the lips can make a face that previously looked like a dude look like a chick.

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/5605/day37.jpg

Time: 2 1/2 Hours
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCs5BpkhAD8): 4th Mix

Thanqol

2011-06-27, 05:57 AM

Day 38: Determinator

Evolution of the concept; a dash of light grey wash let me add a bit of shadows and depth to this face. Finally found a pen/size setting that works for linework. Progress was made, progress will continue to be made.

http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/4572/day38a.jpg

Time Taken: 1 Hour
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYaQoAlV70U): Lightspeed

Flickerdart

2011-06-28, 01:41 AM

Thanqol

2011-06-28, 02:40 AM

I would recommend treating this as a painting instead of a drawing - don't be afraid to grab a large brush and put down some heavy underpainting or shadows. Also, try to avoid the thick black outline. When I paint digitally, I tend to reduce the sketch to 10% opacity when it's done, and then paint over it. In the final, nothing from the sketch layer is visible.

I know even less about painting than drawing! Those are some interesting suggestions, though, I'll mess around with it tomorrow! :smallsmile:

Day 39: Forces

I do like how this turned out, especially as it was an attempt at one of the ideas that I really wanted to draw when I first got into drawing. I'm going to try the same character again in two months or so.

Meet Jayden.

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/450/day39.jpg

Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt1LHcKMcNs): Life Is A Song
Time: 1 Hour

SiuiS

2011-06-28, 04:47 AM

dayum, son. When I left you were but a boy...

I return, and you are the man!

So now that you have a tablet, do you still think you're going to bother with the scanner? You're about even pencil-skill and tablet-skill, so there is no immediate benefit.

Also; is that a NATG picture up there, of Pony committing a Crime? I am remarkably crest-fallen that I didn't do so first. More importantly though; that is some darn fine progress. Darn fine.

Flickerdart

2011-06-28, 11:16 AM

By the way, if you don't like the texture of the tablet, try putting a piece of paper over it.

Thanqol

2011-06-29, 09:00 AM

dayum, son. When I left you were but a boy...

I return, and you are the man!

:D

So now that you have a tablet, do you still think you're going to bother with the scanner? You're about even pencil-skill and tablet-skill, so there is no immediate benefit.

Gonna stick with the tablet for primarily financial reasons.

Also; is that a NATG picture up there, of Pony committing a Crime? I am remarkably crest-fallen that I didn't do so first. More importantly though; that is some darn fine progress. Darn fine.

Day 36? That's actually Shimmer handing out some dating advice.

By the way, if you don't like the texture of the tablet, try putting a piece of paper over it.

Huh. I'd have never thought of that. Thanks!

Day 40: Forces^2

I decided to do the same character again, and might a few times. I realise I can only learn so much from this style, but there's a bunch of fine details I want to mess with and poses and expressions I want to try. Also, I like drawing white on black.

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/2509/day40.jpg

Time: 1 Hour
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUpTJg2EBpw): 16 Tons

Thanqol

2011-06-29, 11:51 PM

Day 41: Forces^3

I like the texture I got on the arms and jeans here but messed up the shape of the head a bit, and the torso didn't work out quite to my satisfaction. Experimented with a few different things; if nothing else I'm enjoying these permutations on the base concept.

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/3299/day41.jpg

Time: 75 mins
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QT8kZgKgTE): Four Part Plan

Flickerdart

2011-06-30, 12:58 AM

If you're making it a habit to use coloured backgrounds, I would suggest a neutral tone, to make your shadows and highlights pop more.

Thanqol

2011-06-30, 12:58 AM

If you're making it a habit to use coloured backgrounds, I would suggest a neutral tone, to make your shadows and highlights pop more.

Neutral tone?

Thanqol

2011-07-01, 05:16 AM

Day 42: Calligraphy

42 days!

Bit fatigued today, so I decided to go sideways into calligraphy. I'm glad I did, it was a pleasant diversion, good practise for smooth line motions, brought back memories of studying Japanese in high school, and taught me something interesting about drawing eyes.

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/417/day42.jpg

Time: 45 minutes
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_qjsX8YyOw): I'm Sorry

Saeyan

2011-07-01, 08:34 AM

Thanqol

2011-07-02, 05:18 AM

I maintain that it's impossible to do Eastern calligraphy with anything other than a brush.

Neutral tone - exactly what it says on the tin. 50% gray is the TN of neutrals but a color like the beige of this site works nicely too.

Ah, thanks for that.

Day 43: Prancin' about with yer heads full of eyeballs!

Well, this was definitely informative. Big ol' eyeball practise. Seeing as how I've never sat down and really thought about how to draw an eye in my life before, this was very productive and useful. Highlights are a particularly interesting case in eyes.

I find myself liking the solid fill + wash technique for colouring and shading.

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/9731/day43m.jpg

Time: 75 Minutes
Music (http://www.thinkwithportals.com/music.php): You'll Be Perfect

Glass Mouse

2011-07-02, 09:30 AM

Domochevsky

2011-07-02, 11:58 AM

...
I really need to learn this myself. Eyes are so important.

Tell me about it... :smallbiggrin:

Remmirath

2011-07-02, 03:47 PM

You've made a lot of improvements - quite impressive! Eyes are definitely very tricky. I remember there was one tutorial in particular that helped me a lot, but since I can't find it (I might be thinking of a book I read rather than something online), I'll scrawl an inferior version of it instead (this took me under ten minutes, so... yeah. Very inferior, but hopefully not misleading or anything). :smalltongue:

http://familylees.net/morgan/scrawleyetut.gif
My handwriting, as you can see, is garbage. Basically the words boil down to that a good thing to keep in mind is that the eyeball itself is round, and that determines the shading and the shape of the lids. This is especially important to keep in mind when drawing the eye from the side; it'll look mighty strange if you don't. Also that the pupil/iris are in the centre of the eye - as in the eyeball - but not smack-dab in the centre of the area you see (though you do seem to have caught on to that part!).

The other shadows around the eye are mostly dependant on the skull/bone structure. For most simplified eyes, you want to ignore all the shading-stuff except for the one defining the upper eyelid.

Apologies for the shoddy quality on that.

Oh, for books...

When it comes to faces and heads in general i would strongly recommend getting your hands on the Artists Guide to Facial Expression by Gary Faigin. It's a very very very useful book and has helped at least me a whole damn lot.

Way far back in the topic, I know, but I can't agree with this enough. Got my faces from looking like this (http://familylees.net/morgan/Art/soaliareth.gif) to this (http://familylees.net/morgan/Art/wobxivenriya.gif). Obviously I'm still not so good, but it was a noticeable improvement.

helpers (http://www.edoctoronline.com/media/19/photos_B5C6DDF0-A993-49BE-B9A0-831E65087787.jpg)

I'm guessing this isn't what you meant to link to? Just pointing it out.

Thanqol

2011-07-02, 07:04 PM

Heey, you've figured out pupil placement! That took me ages, haha :smallbiggrin:

For your convenience, a (http://browse.deviantart.com/?q=eye%20tutorial&order=9&offset=24#/dc1qim) few (http://www.onlypencil.com/blog/tutorials/drawing-the-human-eye/) eye (http://browse.deviantart.com/?q=eye%20tutorial&order=9&offset=48#/d23buoc) helpers (http://www.edoctoronline.com/media/19/photos_B5C6DDF0-A993-49BE-B9A0-831E65087787.jpg). I really need to learn this myself. Eyes are so important.

Ooo, thanks so much! These look really useful! I'll review these and try some updated versions tonight.

I'll also have to draw at least one car-eye though :smallbiggrin::smallwink:

You've made a lot of improvements - quite impressive! Eyes are definitely very tricky. I remember there was one tutorial in particular that helped me a lot, but since I can't find it (I might be thinking of a book I read rather than something online), I'll scrawl an inferior version of it instead (this took me under ten minutes, so... yeah. Very inferior, but hopefully not misleading or anything). :smalltongue:

http://familylees.net/morgan/scrawleyetut.gif
My handwriting, as you can see, is garbage. Basically the words boil down to that a good thing to keep in mind is that the eyeball itself is round, and that determines the shading and the shape of the lids. This is especially important to keep in mind when drawing the eye from the side; it'll look mighty strange if you don't. Also that the pupil/iris are in the centre of the eye - as in the eyeball - but not smack-dab in the centre of the area you see (though you do seem to have caught on to that part!).

The other shadows around the eye are mostly dependant on the skull/bone structure. For most simplified eyes, you want to ignore all the shading-stuff except for the one defining the upper eyelid.

Apologies for the shoddy quality on that.

D'oh, I spent all that time teaching myself 'draw the entire eyeball and then draw the lids' and I forgot it today. That's so helpful, though, thank you so much for taking the time to make it! :smallsmile:

I'll be looking these things over and do another round of eyes tonight, I think, while it's fresh in my mind.

Oh, for books...

Way far back in the topic, I know, but I can't agree with this enough. Got my faces from looking like this (http://familylees.net/morgan/Art/soaliareth.gif) to this (http://familylees.net/morgan/Art/wobxivenriya.gif). Obviously I'm still not so good, but it was a noticeable improvement.

I'll look into it, then :smallsmile:

Remmirath

2011-07-02, 08:09 PM

D'oh, I spent all that time teaching myself 'draw the entire eyeball and then draw the lids' and I forgot it today. That's so helpful, though, thank you so much for taking the time to make it! :smallsmile:

No problem! I'm happy if it helps. :smallsmile:

I keep forgetting to do things I should already know (especially when it comes to proportions), so you're definitely not alone there.

SiuiS

2011-07-03, 01:02 AM

Day 42: Calligraphy

if you've done Japanese calligraphy, then consider point of origin for your strokes. The same line has entirely different character when drawn left to right, rather than right to left. Even with very thin pencil. I hear it's very important in calligraphy, so you should be able to move that skill set sideways into drawing.

Thanqol

2011-07-03, 01:13 AM

if you've done Japanese calligraphy, then consider point of origin for your strokes. The same line has entirely different character when drawn left to right, rather than right to left. Even with very thin pencil. I hear it's very important in calligraphy, so you should be able to move that skill set sideways into drawing.

I did, and I was aware of that. Always left-right, up-down. This particular picture was a shockingly poor example of appropriate technique because I wanted to try a bunch of stuff and see what worked; the better ones were done when I did it correctly.

Silviya

2011-07-03, 02:07 AM

Hey, you're coloring the irises correctly! Most beginning artists just fill the iris with one solid color, but you're using multiple shades. I'm impressed.

A tip for drawing eyes: When shading the iris area, the lightest area should be the bottom, because light is shining through the clear stuff that's on top of the iris. The darkest area should be just under the eyelid, where light can't reach the iris so well.

Here (http://moni158.deviantart.com/art/Anime-eyes-and-Tips-182027466?q=gallery%3Amoni158%2F26778761&qo=22) are a few (http://moni158.deviantart.com/art/More-anime-eyes-and-tips-182920085?q=gallery%3Amoni158%2F26778761&qo=16) more tutorials (http://moni158.deviantart.com/art/more-eye-tips-186431312?q=gallery%3Amoni158%2F26778761&qo=9) on eyes. They're all by the same person, and some of them are kind of anime-ish, but they're realistic enough. I found those tutorials helpful, even though my art is mostly realism.

You're off to a great start with eyes. Keep up the good work!

Filling pages and pages with hard to draw things such as eyes is a really good way to improve. I recommend doing the same for hands, feet, mouths, and faces, if you aren't already.

Speaking of hands: Hands are evil, but all artists must learn to draw them someday. Here ( http://moni158.deviantart.com/art/Hand-study-198786509?q=gallery%3Amoni158%2F26778761&qo=4) are (http://moni158.deviantart.com/art/Hand-study-2-192263478?q=gallery%3Amoni158%2F26778761&qo=7) some (http://moni158.deviantart.com/art/Hand-study-192245984?q=gallery%3Amoni158%2F26778761&qo=8) tutorials (http://moni158.deviantart.com/art/Drawing-hands-and-tips-182278160?q=gallery%3Amoni158%2F26778761&qo=20) on drawing hands, for when you decide to work on hands. Again, these tutorials are all by the same person, but I found them very helpful.

And you're starting to do digital art. This is good! Trying all sorts of different media is good. I have some tips for digital art and colored drawings in general. First, I'm going to link to two pieces of digital art that I've done, because I'm going to use them as examples.
Here's drawing #1 (http://silviya7.deviantart.com/#/d3insb3), which is a bad two hour speedpaint I did a little while ago.
And here's drawing #2 (http://silviya7.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d3i9k87), which is also not that great and it took me about ten hours total.
First, line art vs. no line art: This is all up to personal preference. I'm still not sure which I prefer. Drawing #1 had no line art, and I basically did a layer of dark grey for the sky, then made another layer which was a rough sketch of the forest and mountains, and a third layer which was the basic sketch for the dragon. Drawing #2 had line art (which was actually the same line art that I used for this (http://silviya7.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d3i9j8p) pencil drawing). Other then drawing #1 being much skechty-er because it's a speedpaint, there is a difference between the line art and the no line art. I might have had a clearer idea of what I was doing in drawing #1 if I had line art, for example. If drawing #2 didn't have line art things like the wing membranes might look better. There are ups and downs to both, and the only way to figure out which works best for you is to try them both.

Now, color. Color is really fun to play around with, but it can also be really hard to get right. Color effects the overall feel and mood of a piece, and color can either tie a piece together or make it look chaotic and sloppy. I tend to use very little color, as you can see from my two example drawings (I really should practice using more color . . . .). First off, the viewer's eyes tend to be drawn to the area with the brightest color, or the area with the color that's most different from the others (for example, if you had a picture in mostly blues and greens and there was a bit of red, the viewer's eye would probably be drawn to the red). In drawing #2, I used no colors other than that blue. The idea was for the viewer's eye to be drawn to the dragon's face and then to the ruins on its wings. A mistake I made on that drawing: I put a hint of blue in the claws. I should not have done that, because it makes the claws a focal point, and I don't want the claws to be a focal point.
Here's (http://tarrzan.deviantart.com/art/Inquisition-199481135?q=gallery%3Atarrzan%2F1426359&qo=17) an example of a piece that doesn't use much color (not one of my own pieces). It's got some hazy blues and greens in the background, and then there's the bright white and spots of red light on the tower thing, which draws the eye to it instantly. Another piece (http://tarrzan.deviantart.com/art/Convergence-193000468?q=gallery%3Atarrzan%2F1426359&qo=20) by the same artist, which uses practically every color. There's a lot going on in that piece, and without the color there might not really be a direction for the eye to go. I first noticed the bright orange lazer-tower-building-thing, and then I spotted the little person (who has just a spot of red on it, which helps to draw the eye to it).
Anyway, play around with color and see what works!

Now, book recommendations! The three books that I believe you must get are 100 Ways to Create Fantasy Figures by Francis Tsai (which I may have mentioned earlier in this thread), The Artist's Complete Guide to Facial Expression by Gary Faigin (which several posters have recommended), and Bold Visions: the Digital Painting Bible by Gary Tonge (which is an amazing book that talks all about line art verses no line art and how to use color and how to set the mood and focal point(s) and all that good stuff).

Also, if it would be helpful I can post links to all the deviantART tutorials I've found useful.

Hope this was helpful. You're definitely improving :smallsmile:.

Thanqol

2011-07-03, 05:07 AM

Also, if it would be helpful I can post links to all the deviantART tutorials I've found useful.

Hope this was helpful. You're definitely improving :smallsmile:.

That would be the best; also, you are the best.

Day 44: Seeing Is Believing

I'd like to thank everyone individually again for the advice and suggestions, but, well...

I'll let the progress I made tonight show how much you guys helped me.

Seriously, thanks.

Tomorrow: Mouths. oh god mouths

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4199/day44.jpg

Time: Worked on and off for around 4 hours
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XCoLrYpVKw): Coiled Copper Wire

SiuiS

2011-07-03, 05:42 AM

I did, and I was aware of that. Always left-right, up-down. This particular picture was a shockingly poor example of appropriate technique because I wanted to try a bunch of stuff and see what worked; the better ones were done when I did it correctly.

interesting. I got my info third-hand, and all it said was that he direction of the stroke affects the stroke. Always left-right and up-down? I'll have to remember that. Anyway, try it out on something. Pick a face, and draw it twice; once using those rules, and once just sort of drawing the face (or maybe specifically getting the rules wrong). See if there is a preference.

Also, nice eyeballs. I like the black/orange, which is a good example of "pull the viewer with a single point of difference".

And the green is seeping onto other parts of the board now. Huh.

Silviya

2011-07-03, 04:21 PM

Wow, that's a lot of improvement. I really like the black eye with the red iris. The way you've done the highlights on that one really make it look three dimensional.

That would be the best; also, you are the best.
I'm glad that I can help! :smallsmile:

Here's the long list of tutorials:

Three tutorials (http://acidlullaby.deviantart.com/art/Eye-tutorial-an-update-120245257?q=boost%3Apopular+in%3Aresources%2Ftutor ials%2Fdigiart&qo=14) on drawing (http://yuumei.deviantart.com/art/Semirealistic-Eye-Tutorial-103658891?q=boost%3Apopular+in%3Aresources%2Ftutor ials%2Fdigiart%2Fdpadigi&qo=17) eyes. (http://sakimichan.deviantart.com/art/Stylized-Eye-References-205939373?q=boost%3Apopular%20in%3Aresources&qo=1)

A five (http://daveallsop.deviantart.com/art/Tutorial-Bloodmare-1-152559219?q=sort%3Atime%20gallery%3Adaveallsop&qo=62) part (http://daveallsop.deviantart.com/art/Tutorial-Bloodmare-2-152559639?q=sort%3Atime%20gallery%3Adaveallsop&qo=61) step by step (http://daveallsop.deviantart.com/art/Tutorial-Bloodmare-3-152559907?q=sort%3Atime%20gallery%3Adaveallsop&qo=60) digital (http://daveallsop.deviantart.com/art/Tutorial-Bloodmare-4-152560137?q=sort%3Atime%20gallery%3Adaveallsop&qo=59) tutorial. (http://daveallsop.deviantart.com/art/Tutorial-Bloodmare-5-152560446?q=sort%3Atime%20gallery%3Adaveallsop&qo=58)

A tutorial on digitally painting hair. (http://dianae.deviantart.com/art/Hair-painting-tutorial-48064074?q=boost%3Apopular+in%3Aresources%2Ftutori als%2Fdigiart&qo=146)

Fur, (http://shadowumbre.deviantart.com/art/Fur-Tutorial-104939086?q=boost%3Apopular+in%3Aresources%2Ftutor ials%2Fdigiart&qo=50) clouds, (http://shadowumbre.deviantart.com/art/Clouds-tutorial-41272212?q=in%3Aresources%2Ftutorials+sort%3Atime+ gallery%3Ashadowumbre&qo=2) snow, lightning, and fire, (http://shadowumbre.deviantart.com/art/Various-elements-tutorial-69997749?q=boost%3Apopular+in%3Aresources%2Ftutori als%2Fdigiart&qo=3) and grass, scales, and rock. (http://shadowumbre.deviantart.com/art/Various-textures-tutorial-46100062?q=gallery%3Ashadowumbre%2F401781&qo=125)

Water splashes. (http://dianae.deviantart.com/art/Simple-Water-Splash-Tutorial-89945904?q=boost%3Apopular+in%3Aresources%2Ftutori als+Water&qo=0)

Some pencil tutorials (http://cataclysm-x.deviantart.com/art/Tutorial-How-to-draw-hair-50774338) on drawing (http://cataclysm-x.deviantart.com/art/Tutorial-Detailed-Hair-part-1-72642274?q=boost%3Apopular+in%3Aresources%2Ftutori als%2Ftradart%2Fdrawing&qo=27) hair. (http://cataclysm-x.deviantart.com/art/Tutorial-Detailed-Hair-part-2-74655935?q=boost%3Apopular+in%3Aresources%2Ftutori als+Hair&qo=15)

A bunch of digital tutorials. (http://sandara.deviantart.com/gallery/10727768)

Drawing hands. (http://odduckoasis.deviantart.com/art/Hands-Tutorial-23565813?q=boost%3Apopular+in%3Aresources%2Ftutori als%2Ftradart%2Fdrawing&qo=5)

Head perspective and angles. (http://yuumei.deviantart.com/art/Head-Perspective-Chart-111580222?q=boost%3Apopular%20in%3Aresources%20Hea d%20Perspective&qo=0)

Shading and blending. (http://cataclysm-x.deviantart.com/art/Tutorial-Shading-and-Blending-63643800?q=boost%3Apopular%20in%3Aresources%2Ftuto rials%2Ftradart&qo=4)

Painting gems. (http://nixjim13.deviantart.com/art/Painting-gemstones-and-jewels-211780474?q=boost%3Apopular%20in%3Aresources%2Ftut orials%20Gems&qo=1)

Drawing mouths. (http://moni158.deviantart.com/gallery/26778761#/d30fr1w)

A bunch of step by step tutorials. (http://algenpfleger.deviantart.com/gallery/8622578)

Those are all the tutorials that I can find at the moment. I thought I had some tutorials on painting metal saved somewhere, but now I can't find them. When I find them, I'll post them, because metal is really hard to draw and the tutorials on drawing metal helped me so much.

Also, I haven't forgotten about the big long thing on art that I said I would write up and then post in its own thread. I've just been really busy lately, and I'm going to a camp in ten days, so I may get it done before I go, or I may get it done when I get back. I will get it done eventually.

Thanqol

2011-07-04, 06:22 AM

Thanks for those links! I'll spend time going through them soon!

Day 45: oh god

Hate the hell outta mouths and lips. I can see why so many artists replace 'em with just lines or dispense with them all together. Interestingly, I've always hated mouths ever since watching Transformers as a kid - the cool transformers were Optimus Prime and Soundwave who had the faceless visors, and everyone else was lame in comparison. One way or another, I was dreading this update all day.

Anyway. I did it, and I learned some stuff - particularly how to get a profile view kinda right - and I managed to take a big step away from the Duelling Sausage school of lip illustration. And sausage lips are the most hideous form of art in the universe.

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/6253/day45p.jpg

Time: 1 Hour
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPu95q0Nf1g): Tallon Overworld

Devixer

2011-07-04, 08:48 PM

In my many attempts to draw, I've found that I hate mouths as well.

You're making good progress though, Thanqol! I can't give advice, but I'll heap praise on ya.

Thanqol

2011-07-05, 01:23 AM

Day 46: Art Of The Line

To relax from the stress of actually learning things, I decided to colour someone else's lineart. I traced the lines manually rather than 'shopping it. Learned a bit about precision linework and colouring and had a lot of fun doing it. Will do something more challenging tomorrow.

Model: (Original by Siuis)

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/2830/b1c893e7.jpg

Finished Image:

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3070/day46a.jpg

Time: 1 1/2 hours
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obCJje7PQmY): Junkie Doll

Ninjaman

2011-07-05, 06:10 AM

Thanqol, just out of curiosity, what program are you using?

Thanqol

2011-07-05, 06:19 AM

Thanqol, just out of curiosity, what program are you using?

Corel Painter Essentials 4

Ninjaman

2011-07-05, 10:14 AM

Corel Painter Essentials 4

Is it free :smallconfused::smallbiggrin:

Thanqol

2011-07-05, 10:30 AM

Is it free :smallconfused::smallbiggrin:

Unfortunately not. It came bundled with the drawing tablet I purchased. The website is here (http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite/au/en/Product/1190317151777#tabview=tab0) if you're interested.

Ninjaman

2011-07-05, 12:38 PM

Unfortunately not. It came bundled with the drawing tablet I purchased. The website is here (http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite/au/en/Product/1190317151777#tabview=tab0) if you're interested.

But don´t you have bamboo fun? Becourse that is the one i have.

Thanqol

2011-07-05, 09:22 PM

But don´t you have bamboo fun? Becourse that is the one i have.

Yes, I purchased Bamboo Fun, but I got the package that included Corel and Photoshop along with the tablet itself.

Silviya

2011-07-05, 10:34 PM

Yes, I purchased Bamboo Fun, but I got the package that included Corel and Photoshop along with the tablet itself.

What edition of Photoshop did you get? I personally prefer Photoshop to Painter. It is less like traditional painting, but there are so much more options and different things you can do. YMMV, some people prefer Painter, and some people use both.

Thanqol

2011-07-05, 10:36 PM

What edition of Photoshop did you get? I personally prefer Photoshop to Painter. It is less like traditional painting, but there are so much more options and different things you can do. YMMV, some people prefer Painter, and some people use both.

Photoshop Elements 8.0. A few people have told me that Photoshop is the superior choice, but I wasn't able to figure out the interface as fast as I was with Corel. That's the sole reason for my choice; is it worth switching?

Silviya

2011-07-05, 10:55 PM

Photoshop Elements 8.0. A few people have told me that Photoshop is the superior choice, but I wasn't able to figure out the interface as fast as I was with Corel. That's the sole reason for my choice; is it worth switching?

Hmm, I don't know. I have Photoshop CS4, and I've also used Photoshop CS3, and they're both amazing. However, I've heard that Photoshop Elements is much simpler then CS-something, but I've never used Elements. So it's up to you if you want to switch or not. Photoshop is harder to learn then Painter (Especially the more complicated Photoshops), and I had an art teacher to show me how to use it. My digital art did improve after I switched to Photoshop, though.

I recommend you play around with Photoshop Elements a bit and see how much you like it. Then, if you like it, you could maybe try to get your hands onto a CS-something. CS5 (the newest version) is about $700.00 to $600.00, so that's probably way out of your budget. You can probably get CS4 or CS3 for much cheaper, and they really aren't that different from CS5.

Something cool in Photoshop (or at least in the CS versions) is all the brushes you can download from the internet. I've downloaded a ton of brush packs, from splatter brushes to grass brushes to dust brushes to fractal brushes (the fractal brushes are really cool). It's fun to play around with. If you end up getting a Photoshop that can support those brushes I'll send you the links to them.

Ninjaman

2011-07-06, 02:51 AM

Yes, I purchased Bamboo Fun, but I got the package that included Corel and Photoshop along with the tablet itself.

:smallfrown: Aww, man.

Thanqol

2011-07-06, 03:11 AM

Savannah

2011-07-06, 03:24 AM

After looking over Photoshop Elements again, I suspect this is an image-editing only program, as I am unable to find any range of brushes or drawing tools. I could be missing something.

You're missing something. I got the same bundle you did with the same tablet, and use Photoshop Elements exclusively for all my art (okay, and Inkscape, but that's for a totally different type of art :smalltongue:). I did have trouble with Elements at first, but unfortunately I can't remember what I did to fix it well enough to help. The best I can do is give you a screenshot of my Elements with the tools circled, here (http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/1627/psei.jpg).

SiuiS

2011-07-06, 05:31 AM

After looking over Photoshop Elements again, I suspect this is an image-editing only program, as I am unable to find any range of brushes or drawing tools. I could be missing something.

Day 47: Swatch

I half like this one. It was made with the intention to see if I could sort out a weird colour scheme into something that flowed better. I also experimented with using the wash tool as primary hair colourer; it worked great for the skin tone, but not so well for the hair. After two hours of work, I see what I would have done different if I had the chance for a do-over.

It's kind of a weird feeling. There are a lot of things here I'm happy with, and some things I'd change if I had more time. Particularly, next time I'm going to try an experimental colour scheme, I'm going to slash out an outline of those colours on the page and see if they clash. I'm also going to go for solid colour fills and accentuate using wash, like I did with the eye.\

Model:

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee468/WizardPony/16266a7e.jpg

Finished:

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/7999/day47w.jpg

Time: 2 1/4 hours
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgW5EQZSr84): Radio

oh, gracious. I had a building feeling I new what you were talking about when reading through your post, and, sure as sugar, there it is :smalleek: :smallredface:

In my defense, half of my colored pencils are a mystery until I've scrubbed the page a bit. (this is where you point out I should do test swatches in the margins :smallwink:)

The background color kind of washes the skin tone. Granted, I'm a hairs breadth away from passing out, but it makes the whole thing seem flat. The face doesn't pop enough off of the background.

Have you ever heard of an oekaki board? It is (to the best of my knowledge) a message board with it's own rudimentary but solid art program, specifically to draw/paint, and post it for other folks to critique. That's what your art reminds me of, right now. It's got the same feel.

I don't know that you can find one with both good artists and low drama, and I don't know that you could fit it into your already busy routine, but it's worth a bit of consideration, methinks.

Rock on.

Thanqol

2011-07-06, 06:47 AM

Day 47a: 20% More Swatch

You know what? Screw leaving things unfinished.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/9444/day47a.jpg

Trixie

2011-07-06, 07:29 AM

...closer eye being smaller *cough*

Thanqol

2011-07-06, 10:49 AM

Day 47b: 63.67% more Swatch

You know what? SCREW SLEEP. GONNA ART

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/7914/day47b2.png

Trazoi

2011-07-06, 09:21 PM

I like the red and black effect, but does the tall guy in the mask have two right arms? :smallconfused:

Thanqol

2011-07-06, 09:23 PM

I like the red and black effect, but does the tall guy in the mask have two right arms? :smallconfused:

No? I don't see what you're referring to? :smallconfused:

Trazoi

2011-07-06, 09:31 PM

No? I don't see what you're referring to? :smallconfused:

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/2592/tworight.jpg (http://img854.imageshack.us/i/tworight.jpg/)

Edit: Or is the tall guy facing forwards? In which case I'm not sure how the pose works with the other guy pointing guns at each other.
Editx2: Or are they just inspecting their guns and I've misread where they're pointing their arms completely? :smallconfused:

Thanqol

2011-07-06, 09:39 PM

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/2592/tworight.jpg (http://img854.imageshack.us/i/tworight.jpg/)

Edit: Or is the tall guy facing forwards? In which case I'm not sure how the pose works with the other guy pointing guns at each other.

No, the picture works. The masked guy's torso is facing towards the camera, same way as the other guy. His left arm is at the back, his right arm is holding the gun, and his neck is turned. You can see the outline of his opened coat.

Suitguy has left shoulder forwards, maskguy has right shoulder forwards, they're in an open stance, their torsos both facing the same direction. You can see this from the shape of their coats at the bottom.

I could probably have made that clearer, in retrospect.

Recaiden

2011-07-06, 09:43 PM

No? I don't see what you're referring to? :smallconfused:

He totally has two right arms and is wearing his coat backwards. It's obvious. Suit guy is great though.

Thanqol

2011-07-06, 09:46 PM

He totally has two right arms and is wearing his coat backwards. It's obvious. Suit guy is great though.

I cannot tell if you are being ironic :smalleek:

Recaiden

2011-07-06, 09:53 PM

I cannot tell if you are being ironic :smalleek:

[heavily sarcastic voice] Could I be any more sarcastic?[/voice]

It seems like one of those trick of perspective pictures. At first, it looks like he's backwards, but then your focus inverts and you see him as facing forwards and looking to his own right.

Thanqol

2011-07-06, 09:55 PM

[heavily sarcastic voice] Could I be any more sarcastic?[/voice]

It seems like one of those trick of perspective pictures. At first, it looks like he's backwards, but then your focus inverts and you see him as facing forwards and looking to his own right.

Ah, yes, yes. I think next time I'll add something to his upper torso to make that clearer. :smallsmile:

Recaiden

2011-07-06, 09:56 PM

Ah, yes, yes. I think next time I'll add something to his upper torso to make that clearer. :smallsmile:

It's the left hand (our right). He's holding it behind his back (or pocket?) in what looks like a really awkward manner, so the easier perspective is to invert the torso.

Thanqol

2011-07-07, 12:07 AM

Day 48: What's White, Black and Red all over?

This was all kinds of tricky; I've never drawn two people interacting before. The pose still isn't quite right, but progress was made. Some proportions and limb sizes are a bit off too, but I reckon I can make a show of choreographing this fight sequence.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/6607/day48.png

Time: 1 Hour
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHF1iKTOwc8): Eat Your Own Dust

Trazoi

2011-07-07, 12:26 AM

Thanqol

2011-07-07, 12:44 AM

I'm not getting the visual illusion thing with the mask guy this time. Although with the lack of outlines and some issues with depth I couldn't help seeing both figures being, uh, somewhat joined at the crotch. :smallbiggrin:

Raz fights dirty :smallannoyed:

I'd still say my biggest issue would be that their poses look a little too flat, like they've been stylised on a Egyptian mural. Both figures have their torsos facing the viewer but since they're interacting it's hard to place any depth to their individual components to get an idea of where everything is.

Yeah, I agree entirely, but I reckon I can start experimenting with that. It's overall too stiff and straight to be natural, especially in a moment that's supposed to have more energy, but it's actually been a fair while since I did my stick figures and full human body drawings (and actually never in anything remotely similar to these stances). I'm going to try a few more like these until I've sorted out poses and stances to my satisfaction.

I think this is one of those situations where I just have to practise it a bunch; I feel like I'm on the right track and I just need to keep going.

SiuiS

2011-07-07, 04:05 AM

Day 47b: 63.67% more Swatch

You know what? SCREW SLEEP. GONNA ART

But I have to DM tomorrow! also out of inspiration for anything that I could show

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/7914/day47b2.png

Nice. A little stiff on Mask's part, but it fits the character. Thy look entirely unconcerned to have guns aimed at their vulnerable bits.
It is odd that Raz (I assume) is left handed though. Would probably I've him an edge in a swordfight.

No, the picture works. The masked guy's torso is facing towards the camera, same way as the other guy. His left arm is at the back, his right arm is holding the gun, and his neck is turned. You can see the outline of his opened coat.

Suitguy has left shoulder forwards, maskguy has right shoulder forwards, they're in an open stance, their torsos both facing the same direction. You can see this from the shape of their coats at the bottom.

I could probably have made that clearer, in retrospect.

I got it, oddly enough. First thing I noticed (besides the faces) were the coat details on Mask. Really well done.
No actual advice or critique I'm afraid. You're now beyond most of my help (which is a good thing; I would probably lead you astray :smallwink:)
Who is the girl with the blue background?

Thanqol

2011-07-07, 08:40 AM

But I have to DM tomorrow! also out of inspiration for anything that I could show

Take some of my inspiration! Really. I can't stop drawing.

Nice. A little stiff on Mask's part, but it fits the character. Thy look entirely unconcerned to have guns aimed at their vulnerable bits.
It is odd that Raz (I assume) is left handed though. Would probably I've him an edge in a swordfight.

The Arcani either go for straight-backed stiff puppetism or creepy, twisty, spidery stances.

I got it, oddly enough. First thing I noticed (besides the faces) were the coat details on Mask. Really well done.
No actual advice or critique I'm afraid. You're now beyond most of my help (which is a good thing; I would probably lead you astray :smallwink:)
Who is the girl with the blue background?[/color]

The girl is half a dozen different people depending on which stage of creation you asked that question. Learning that going in with a clear concept is important.

On that note.

Day 48b: A Sunburnt Penguin

This turned out a lot better. I'm so glad I went back in to fix the feet, they looked abominable in the first draft.

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/2019/day49.png

Domochevsky

2011-07-07, 02:44 PM

Thanqol

2011-07-07, 06:49 PM

Needs more solid guns and a ruler for the sword. :smallwink:
(Suit guys right arm also looks a bit short for this angle. Again, i suggest laying things out with stick figures first and keeping them in a layer below the entire thing. You can affort that luxury when working digitally. :smallsmile: )

Indeed; figuring out how to draw guns/swords is a practise day in and of itself.

I did lay the thing out with stick figures; that particular piece of theory is functional, even if the application is still lacking :smallwink:

Here's a little challenge: Make this set of skeletons into a picture of your chosing.
(The numbers are the visible fingers, counting 1 as the thumb.)

http://www.nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/RAW_12.png

Show me your moves! o/ (Because having characters interact and stretch sensibly is damn hard.)

Challenge accepted!

Also, ohhhhhhhh, that's how you skeleton out a background.

Silviya

2011-07-08, 03:55 AM

I like the whole black and red thing. I also found working with color like that to be interesting.

One thing that you could do to practice poses is to find pictures of people online and then draw the basics of that person's pose on top of the picture. Draw a line for the shoulders and hips, a line for the spine, lines for arms and legs, and a circle for the head. Maybe use little arrows to or other indicator's to show which leg is carrying more weight (people usually don't stand with their weight evenly distributed on both legs). It's a good practice to see how people stand/walk/whatever, and after a while of that you should be able to quickly sketch out poses that flow nicely and look real.

I have something that you could do for drawing if you hit an art block or just feel like doing something different: Pick a song, preferably a fairly abstract song, and create a piece of art based on the mood and lyrics. Listen to the song while creating the art. I've done this a little bit and I plan on doing it more, and it's really fun and interesting. Fairly abstract song are best, because they give you more freedom to figure out how to illustrate it. I don't know what kind of music you like best, but a lot of the music I listen to works really well for this (Within Temptation, Nightwish, Epica). For example, the song I'm planning on illustrating next is Blank Infinity (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L0P8iJNasI) by Epica.

Fri

2011-07-08, 04:32 AM

Man, I have to get back practising myself. At this rate soon I wont be able to advise you without embarassing myself anymore.

I remember a story/saying in my place. That a school teacher will teach you everything he knows, but a martial art teacher won't. Because he must keep something a secret so he'll still be able to defeat his student. I wonder which type of teachers arts have :smallbiggrin:

Thanqol

2011-07-08, 07:51 AM

I like the whole black and red thing. I also found working with color like that to be interesting.

If there's any type of art I've always had affinity with, it was silhouettes.

One thing that you could do to practice poses is to find pictures of people online and then draw the basics of that person's pose on top of the picture. Draw a line for the shoulders and hips, a line for the spine, lines for arms and legs, and a circle for the head. Maybe use little arrows to or other indicator's to show which leg is carrying more weight (people usually don't stand with their weight evenly distributed on both legs). It's a good practice to see how people stand/walk/whatever, and after a while of that you should be able to quickly sketch out poses that flow nicely and look real.

Hey, good idea! That's tomorrow's practise!

I have something that you could do for drawing if you hit an art block or just feel like doing something different: Pick a song, preferably a fairly abstract song, and create a piece of art based on the mood and lyrics. Listen to the song while creating the art. I've done this a little bit and I plan on doing it more, and it's really fun and interesting. Fairly abstract song are best, because they give you more freedom to figure out how to illustrate it. I don't know what kind of music you like best, but a lot of the music I listen to works really well for this (Within Temptation, Nightwish, Epica). For example, the song I'm planning on illustrating next is Blank Infinity (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L0P8iJNasI) by Epica.

Oh, neat idea. I always put one song on eternal repeat when I draw. It helps me focus, keeps my mood from changing, and stops me meddling with playlists. I never thought of examining a song in that way though.

Man, I have to get back practising myself. At this rate soon I wont be able to advise you without embarassing myself anymore.

I remember a story/saying in my place. That a school teacher will teach you everything he knows, but a martial art teacher won't. Because he must keep something a secret so he'll still be able to defeat his student. I wonder which type of teachers arts have :smallbiggrin:

"I can defeat him, he taught me everything he knows!"
"No. He taught you everything YOU know."

Day 49: Challenge Completed

Ultimately, I'm happy with what I did here.

A fair few things - perhaps the majority of things - are completely shonky, and I've got a laundry list of excuses (including realising far too late I could resize a picture's resolution manually). But it was especially educational in terms of what I picked up about stance in the process. And that's what matters at the end of the day.

Thanks Domochevsky. I'd enjoy doing more like that if you're ever inclined to throw more together; it was an interesting challenge :smallwink:

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/8888/day50.png

Time: 1 Hour
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLmAlskhRZc&feature=player_embedded): No Strings Attached

Domochevsky

2011-07-08, 08:28 AM

Mhm, good dynamic on that one, so i'd call that all in all a success. I'm gonna make some more skeletons at some point later, i suspect. Little challenges inbetween regular exercises should be fun. :smallsmile:

Trazoi

2011-07-08, 06:46 PM

Best ice skating routine ever. :smallwink:

SiuiS

2011-07-09, 06:19 AM

Indeed; figuring out how to draw guns/swords is a practise day in and of itself.

I did lay the thing out with stick figures; that particular piece of theory is functional, even if the application is still lacking :smallwink:.

This is where you find out a horrible truth; sometimes, skeletons that are perfectly accurate need to be changed and made inaccurate, because a fully fleshed drawing can still look weird if everythin is 'in place' but not where the eye expects it to be.

Man, I have to get back practising myself. At this rate soon I wont be able to advise you without embarassing myself anymore.

I'm already there XD
Lemme know when you get there, too. We can start a club! :smallwink:

Thanqol

2011-07-09, 07:34 AM

This is where you find out a horrible truth; sometimes, skeletons that are perfectly accurate need to be changed and made inaccurate, because a fully fleshed drawing can still look weird if everythin is 'in place' but not where the eye expects it to be.

http://i.imgur.com/DrMmg.jpg

Day 50: Down With The Pharaoh

Today was an exercise in skeletoning out real life people, as suggested, and was a great unwind. It took me a little while before figuring out where I could find a crowd shot where the poses were varied enough to be worth learning from. I did a few pages like the one below off a variety of source pictures.

I think the major thing I learned is that people can still take fairly dramatic poses without needing to fling their arms and legs everywhere, so I reckon I cracked that unproductive drawing instinct. I learned how closely arms are often positioned to the body, a few things about bending and foreshortening, but the biggest gain was a revelation on how the location of the knee can say a lot about the leg's position and stance.

Model Shot (http://www.thenational.ae/deployedfiles//Assets/Richmedia/Image/GYI0063244696.jpg)

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2613/day50.jpg

Time: 1 Hour
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wUp9hul5w8): Good Excuse

Thanqol

2011-07-10, 04:12 AM

EsperDerek

2011-07-10, 06:35 AM

Day 51: Ambition

Woah, this was a challenge.

But I'm getting to the point where I can do things like this. It's not perfect by a long stretch, but it's a damn sight better than the best I could do 50 days ago.

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/555/day51b.jpg

I don't think anyone who doesn't follow the ponythreads is going to get any of that.

*I*, on the other hand, am tickled pink. :smallredface:

I'm totally not trying to cage her, I, uhm, was just carrying that. Because I'm donating it to a zoo. Honest!

Thanqol

2011-07-10, 08:52 PM

I don't think anyone who doesn't follow the ponythreads is going to get any of that.

*I*, on the other hand, am tickled pink. :smallredface:

I'm totally not trying to cage her, I, uhm, was just carrying that. Because I'm donating it to a zoo. Honest!

Oh goodness, I didn't know you read this thread :smallredface: I'm glad you like it! I didn't get Midnight's hair quite right, but I'm very happy how the cutie mark turned out, especially after 3 failed attempts.

I also learned that there's a whole lot I can do to practise spell effects, so that's the challenge for today!

EsperDerek

2011-07-10, 09:50 PM

Oh goodness, I didn't know you read this thread :smallredface: I'm glad you like it! I didn't get Midnight's hair quite right, but I'm very happy how the cutie mark turned out, especially after 3 failed attempts.

I also learned that there's a whole lot I can do to practise spell effects, so that's the challenge for today!

I look in every once in awhile! And I think you did a fine enough job on Mids, the hair is fine enough, and you should be happy with the cutie mark. Ya'll did good and I approve. :smallsmile:

Thanqol

2011-07-11, 03:37 AM

I look in every once in awhile! And I think you did a fine enough job on Mids, the hair is fine enough, and you should be happy with the cutie mark. Ya'll did good and I approve. :smallsmile:

Baller, great to hear :smallbiggrin: Though I'm gonna use Kairaven's model/colours for future attempts.

Day 52: Advanced Colouring Techniques

Not content with the Solid Fill technique, I spent today experimenting with a whole bunch of different colouring techniques; washes, paints, and dry media. At the end of the day, the piece I produced I'm mostly happy with *but* I don't think the gains justified the effort involved in colouring everything with chalk by hand. I think, at least for now, I'll stick with solid fill + highlights, washes and other techniques, letting me focus on accentuating highlights rather than going over every inch.

The picture itself I can see the flaws with - one hand is too small, and I still don't know how to do legs (upcoming practise session on that). But I think the colour scheme worked, and the stance practise I did the other day helped a lot in getting a natural looking posture. Putting the time in to correct little flaws does pay enormous returns, too; the dodginess in this picture was reduced by 80% by a solid round of editing.

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4138/day51b2.jpg

Time: 2 Hours
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y4u52__vUY): Woke Up This Morning

EsperDerek

2011-07-11, 08:01 AM

Baller, great to hear :smallbiggrin: Though I'm gonna use Kairaven's model/colours for future attempts.

Day 52: Advanced Colouring Techniques

Not content with the Solid Fill technique, I spent today experimenting with a whole bunch of different colouring techniques; washes, paints, and dry media. At the end of the day, the piece I produced I'm mostly happy with *but* I don't think the gains justified the effort involved in colouring everything with chalk by hand. I think, at least for now, I'll stick with solid fill + highlights, washes and other techniques, letting me focus on accentuating highlights rather than going over every inch.

The picture itself I can see the flaws with - one hand is too small, and I still don't know how to do legs (upcoming practise session on that). But I think the colour scheme worked, and the stance practise I did the other day helped a lot in getting a natural looking posture. Putting the time in to correct little flaws does pay enormous returns, too; the dodginess in this picture was reduced by 80% by a solid round of editing.

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4138/day51b2.jpg

I have to admit, what Kairaven drew as pretty spectacular, yes. :smallredface:

Also, humanized Gilda! And in my admittedly limited experience in art (Mostly by talking to InkwellPony, or rather, having him talk to me about it), it seems to me that legs appear to be one of the hardest things to do properly.

And I guess with everything else, editing always helps!

Thanqol

2011-07-11, 08:39 PM

Day 53: You Know What I Don't Hate?

I don't hate this! It's the first piece I've done without some glaring, obvious misproportion. It sure has it's flaws, and I'd list 'em if I had a mind to, but they're less extreme than I'm used to.

To Do List for the immediate future:
- Legs!
- Non-anime hairstyles (but they're so easy!)
- Spell effects!

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2352/day52.jpg

Time: 1 1/2 hours
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc9f-VVQK3k): Francis Hates L4D

Ajadea

2011-07-11, 09:51 PM

While that looks nice, and honestly much cleaner than what I normally draw on Corel, I still have to poke at one thing that seems particularly glaring to me-that nose looks like it was the victim of an unintentional move forty or so pixels up.

Thanqol

2011-07-11, 10:34 PM

Kaytara

2011-07-12, 02:14 PM

Thanqol

2011-07-13, 01:55 AM

...Huh. O_o

You know, I take it back. The ponies are awesome. Keep drawing them. The improvement is really visible there - even though they're stylised, I can still see that you've gotten better at placement, composition, become more sure with the lines and expressions...

http://i.imgur.com/jaolo.jpg You like the ponies!

Going digital was a good move, I approve. It's doing you a world of good. I particularly like the first black-and-red drawing. It hardly looks at all like a beginner's work.

And... what else, what else...

Thank you, I think so as well. I love this tablet to bits. :smallsmile:

Oh, right. The pencil drawing in this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11349988&postcount=178) post:

It's great. That's why I take back what I said about ponies. If all that linework is your own, it's a hell of a leap. Expressions, evocative poses, a nice sense of three-dimensionality, and I love the way the mane flows down that neck... Congratulations, you're well on your way to learning how to draw(tm)! Someday soon you might even get there!

...And then I'll have to kill you, to dissuade silly kids of the notion that anyone can just go and become an artist. >D

(The linework is Siuis'; I inked and coloured)

Otherwise, thank you so much for the encouragement! After seeing that post I proceeded to spend the entire day drawing non-stop. It's a great feeling.

Day 54: Ponies Upon Request

Not happy with this one, so I'll probably do at least one other piece today, schedule permitting. I've already spent most of the day drawing, including one attempt at a ridiculously convoluted pose that eventually collapsed as a drawing (but in the process I learned something cool about knees, hands and necks).

I'm also learning that a fair bit of this is about composition - about being able to visualise where everything's going to go before you even start drawing the skeleton. It's harder than I'd expected, but I'm starting to get the hang of it.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/525/day53.jpg

Time: ~3 hours spent drawing so far today, probably going to see a fair bit more.
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw5BDmPxueQ&playnext=1&list=PL83DEC89AF35F20D2): Capriccio

Thanqol

2011-07-13, 06:14 AM

Day 54b: Horsie-roo!

Turns out that modelling off actual horses? Pretty good for drawing ponies!

I like this style, actually, and I reckon I'm gonna stick with it for future pony drawings!

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/607/day54.jpg

Thanqol

2011-07-13, 07:43 AM

Day 54 C&D: Best Night Ever

Yeah, I reckon I can make this style work for me.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1931/day54c.jpg

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/7922/day54d.jpg

Kaytara

2011-07-13, 08:06 AM

...It's like the sassy teenage version of them. :D

...But yeah, real life horse anatomy definitely showing there.

Thanqol

2011-07-14, 01:17 AM

...It's like the sassy teenage version of them. :D

...But yeah, real life horse anatomy definitely showing there.

Real life horse anatomy is, to quote the Hitman, both easier and more difficult than you could possibly imagine.

Day 55: Agent 47+8

This was an interesting one. The legs worked out mostly all right, could stand to have a bit more depth and shading - also muscle detail - but I'm on the clock today. The face went through a lot of different versions, but the various off-model versions I was using looked weird from that angle and combined with the bone structure. By moving back to something a lot closer to reality I got an effect that worked a lot better overall.

Could definitely do with a solid round of editing or two, but I've got to go do horrible things with teleporters. You know how it goes.

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/6220/day55.jpg

Time: 2 Hours
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLBNhx0S4LU): Funky Tonight

Thanqol

2011-07-15, 07:26 AM

Day 56: Study

Today I was exhausted, so my decision to read a whole bunch of tutorials was a rather poor one. Those really showed a whole bunch of techniques that I can start learning almost immediately and went on to make me realise that I'd been coasting a little bit over recent days. Doubly unfortunately, I have a busy weekend coming up, which means that I won't really have the time to practise as much as I want to.

But I'm going to do it, as soon as I've got the time and mental energy. Pinkie swear. Advanced stuff is going to come up, soon.

Anyway, picture. I've got no idea what this thing is other than that I wore it as my avatar from 2003-2005. Not good, but I wasn't up for anything more complex.

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/6220/day55.jpg

Time: 50 Minutes
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl4Y8MsqxR4): Audiosurf Overture

SiuiS

2011-07-15, 01:08 PM

I have to admit, what Kairaven drew as pretty spectacular, yes. :smallredface:

Also, humanized Gilda! And in my admittedly limited experience in art (Mostly by talking to InkwellPony, or rather, having him talk to me about it), it seems to me that legs appear to be one of the hardest things to do properly.

And I guess with everything else, editing always helps!

Aye. You'll notice that 90% of all art is from around the waist up. Or that if legs show up, it's done as perspective work. Legs are unfamiliar territory for a lot of folks because they are rarely needed, awkward to position as well as arms, and have some weird structural things going on (like the lower leg curving outward, or the knee-- Sun and Moon, have you ever actually looked at your own knee?)

http://i.imgur.com/jaolo.jpg You like the ponies!

Thank you, I think so as well. I love this tablet to bits. :smallsmile:

(The linework is Siuis'; I inked and coloured)

Otherwise, thank you so much for the encouragement! After seeing that post I proceeded to spend the entire day drawing non-stop. It's a great feeling.

Day 54: Ponies Upon Request

Not happy with this one, so I'll probably do at least one other piece today, schedule permitting. I've already spent most of the day drawing, including one attempt at a ridiculously convoluted pose that eventually collapsed as a drawing (but in the process I learned something cool about knees, hands and necks).

I'm also learning that a fair bit of this is about composition - about being able to visualise where everything's going to go before you even start drawing the skeleton. It's harder than I'd expected, but I'm starting to get the hang of it.

Time: ~3 hours spent drawing so far today, probably going to see a fair bit more.
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw5BDmPxueQ&playnext=1&list=PL83DEC89AF35F20D2): Capriccio

Aye. Composition is where it's at. Measure twice, cutdraw onceactually a bunch, but it's still a fitting phrase. I don't know if you remember the first 'Silver Lining in ropes' picture, but the entire left of the page we a couple skeletons working on positioning, perspective and such. I can attest that, if I hadn't done that and had just jumped in, I would probably not be drawing again out of sheer frustration.

Also, your constant tutorial reading intrigues me. I must investigate this.

Day 54b: Horsie-roo!

Turns out that modelling off actual horses? Pretty good for drawing ponies!

I like this style, actually, and I reckon I'm gonna stick with it for future pony drawings!

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/607/day54.jpg

Very nice. I see some trouble at the back hip area. Remember that the butt is made up mostly of thigh connecting to bones, so there wouldn't be that much of a divide between the horse butt ahe the extended leg coming off the horse butt.

I started this response last night just as the boards went down so I can't remember anything else I was going to say, but keep up the work and it's quality, friend. You'll be a household name in ten seconds flat.

Thanqol

2011-07-16, 05:43 AM

Aye. You'll notice that 90% of all art is from around the waist up. Or that if legs show up, it's done as perspective work. Legs are unfamiliar territory for a lot of folks because they are rarely needed, awkward to position as well as arms, and have some weird structural things going on (like the lower leg curving outward, or the knee-- Sun and Moon, have you ever actually looked at your own knee?)

Yeah. And pants are such an easy way out of the entire problem. I want to avoid them for that reason.

OFF WITH YOUR PANTS!

Aye. Composition is where it's at. Measure twice, cutdraw onceactually a bunch, but it's still a fitting phrase. I don't know if you remember the first 'Silver Lining in ropes' picture, but the entire left of the page we a couple skeletons working on positioning, perspective and such. I can attest that, if I hadn't done that and had just jumped in, I would probably not be drawing again out of sheer frustration.

Also, your constant tutorial reading intrigues me. I must investigate this.

I've historically been good at writing entire stories in my mind and then just typing them out in a single great flurry. It's weird applying that technique to pictures. It's disappointing when I apply that technique, conjure up a truly breathtaking picture in my head, and then realise I have none of the practical skills necessary to even begin that picture.

Hence the tutorials. They're definitely worthwhile, and they're gonna send me back into figuring out Photoshop.

Very nice. I see some trouble at the back hip area. Remember that the butt is made up mostly of thigh connecting to bones, so there wouldn't be that much of a divide between the horse butt ahe the extended leg coming off the horse butt.

Heh heh heh. Horse butt.[/9yearsold]

I started this response last night just as the boards went down so I can't remember anything else I was going to say, but keep up the work and it's quality, friend. You'll be a household name in ten seconds flat.[/color]

:smallredface:

Day 56: The Greatest Plan Ever

This is an actual exchange from Thursday's Rogue Trader game. There's a reason the Adepteus Mechanicus sent Mr. Rook on a suicide mission on a Rogue Trader ship.

Experimented with brushing in hair. Mixed results. Will investigate further.

Whoops there's a hand on backwards.

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/5466/day56i.jpg

Time: 1 hour 30 mins
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm86I_kezVY): Lotion (This song baffled me out until I found out it was about a serial killer. Then it made amazing sense)

SiuiS

2011-07-16, 06:15 AM

So that's what the song is called. I confess, I start to hum that or sing it every time the bondage jokes get out of control. I figured modified lyrics would be in poor taste though. there's an actual music video version, usin clips from the movie. Look it up if you're interested.

Easiest way to clear customers out of the building for a bathroom break though, lemme tell you. Sing a song of serial killing, and after the skinning part... Art of the dress http://www.electricsamurai.com/forums/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif

Thanqol

2011-07-16, 06:28 AM

CrimsonAngel

2011-07-16, 12:17 PM

Hey, you've gotten a lot better since last I honked my honks in this thread.

Domochevsky

2011-07-16, 03:13 PM

Ok, here's another challenge. This time it's about perspective, framing and (minorly) muscle behavior. :smallwink:

http://www.nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/RAW_13.png

(A hint: Foreground = thick lines, background = thin lines.)

Show me your moves! o/

Thanqol

2011-07-17, 08:16 AM

Day 57: The Ecstasy of Gold

Had a shot at converting Domochevsky's outline into the characters from The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. The Ugly guy turned out way too attractive.

Again, I plead tiredness as the reason why the quality's not as high as I'm capable of, but as a meander through a bunch of different experiments it's not bad. I think that this paintbrush hair idea is doomed to failure, so I'll set that aside. I accidentally stumbled into a good looking technique with the middle guy's shirt; solid fill of a light colour and then darker wash for the body of it, effectively highlighting the edges. Gonna keep that one in mind. I'm getting really accustomed to hands, which is an enormous positive. I'm also finding that I'm starting to get more and more used to faces and skeletons. The change isn't dramatic in my pictures, but what you're not seeing is a huge reduction in the erase-redo time with each one. Oh yes, and the lessons on perspective I picked up were invaluable.

So, in the end, not a great piece, but one that had me thinking a lot, and at this level that's what I really want out of a drawing. Thanks again, Domo!

http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/4980/day57.jpg

Time: 1 Hour 15 minutes
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV0wPBYDQ6Y): The Ecstasy of Gold

Thanqol

2011-07-18, 05:55 AM

Day 58: Speak Softly, Love

Love Mafia movies. Love doing silhouettes.

I may have used the most counter-intuitive process for this ever.

Also: Figured out what the transparency slider does and why my 2B pencil tool was looking like ass.

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/9254/day58.jpg

Time: 1 Hour
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQBW6G0hSrs): Speak Softly, Love

Glass Mouse

2011-07-18, 06:23 AM

SiuiS

2011-07-18, 08:54 PM

first, I need to make it clear that I have bent over backwards to avoid swearing, on these forums and recently in my life. It's a pony thing, but also a 'use only the necessary emphasis' bit.

Day 58: Speak Softly, Love

Love Mafia movies. Love doing silhouettes.

I may have used the most counter-intuitive process for this ever.

Also: Figured out what the transparency slider does and why my 2B pencil tool was looking like ass.

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/9254/day58.jpg

Time: 1 Hour
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQBW6G0hSrs): Speak Softly, Love

Holy ****ing DAMN, son. I can't ****in' process this. I really can't. I mean, ****.

I can't do anything right now, but you've got a convert. I will get a computer, a tablet, an art program. I will harass you for a list of tutorials. I will schedule time to learn. Because your progress is the fastest I have ever seen.

So you get a digital finger painting.

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee468/WizardPony/8c9c5c19.jpg

Whoa, awesome! That looks really, really good.

Playing with very heavy shadows is a great exercise. Do this more! Way too many newbies are too timid with shading and thus spend way too much time not knowing how to do it correctly.

yes, this. Especially the 'Woah, awesome' part.

-

And now for the reason I came here, an old half-finished sketch I thought you could enjoy.

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee468/WizardPony/2f63dd69.jpg

You can see a lot of the skeleton, which helps understand 3d placement. You can probably get a sense for the roundness of the pony involved. And you can see the fingers in the foreground which look like sloppy, long monkey toes.

That last bit is what is really important though. See, I can draw pony allthe live long day. I can't draw people anymore.

I rely too much on 'personal style' to carry me. I have a good-but-not-good-enough handle on the basics. I remember a pseudo argument I had in this thread, where someone thought I was justifying laziness for style choice. Well, their reason for that being a bad thing was right. Look upon what could have been a decent image, and despair; for there go you if you forsake hard work for sloth and visual short-cuts.

Continue to rock the art scene, Thanqol. You are doing good things.

Thanqol

2011-07-18, 11:51 PM

Whoa, awesome! That looks really, really good.

Playing with very heavy shadows is a great exercise. Do this more! Way too many newbies are too timid with shading and thus spend way too much time not knowing how to do it correctly.

I love heavy shadows and silhouettes. If I thought I could learn everything I wanted to learn by just doing those, I'd do nothing but those. It's such an inherently powerful style.

first, I need to make it clear that I have bent over backwards to avoid swearing, on these forums and recently in my life. It's a pony thing, but also a 'use only the necessary emphasis' bit.

Holy ****ing DAMN, son. I can't ****in' process this. I really can't. I mean, ****.

I can't do anything right now, but you've got a convert. I will get a computer, a tablet, an art program. I will harass you for a list of tutorials. I will schedule time to learn. Because your progress is the fastest I have ever seen.

So you get a digital finger painting.

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee468/WizardPony/8c9c5c19.jpg

I'm blushing so hard now you have no idea. :smallredface:

yes, this. Especially the 'Woah, awesome' part.

-

And now for the reason I came here, an old half-finished sketch I thought you could enjoy.

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee468/WizardPony/2f63dd69.jpg

You can see a lot of the skeleton, which helps understand 3d placement. You can probably get a sense for the roundness of the pony involved. And you can see the fingers in the foreground which look like sloppy, long monkey toes.

That last bit is what is really important though. See, I can draw pony allthe live long day. I can't draw people anymore.

I rely too much on 'personal style' to carry me. I have a good-but-not-good-enough handle on the basics. I remember a pseudo argument I had in this thread, where someone thought I was justifying laziness for style choice. Well, their reason for that being a bad thing was right. Look upon what could have been a decent image, and despair; for there go you if you forsake hard work for sloth and visual short-cuts.

Continue to rock the art scene, Thanqol. You are doing good things.[/color]

Ah yes, I remember this picture! In your defence, fingers are hard.

Day 59: The House is in the Doctor

This was much more challenging than yesterday's because I was working off a photograph and not an existing silhouette, meaning I had to figure out where the shadows went manually. It was still a lot of fun to do; I reckon I did well on the irises in particular. (Hugh Laurie has an enormous forehead)

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/3826/day59.jpg

Time: 1 Hour 15 Minutes
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKYHRgjyCqI): Certamente

Thanqol

2011-07-19, 08:34 AM

Day 59a: Step Outside

Finally started messing around in Photoshop. It's got a user interface akin to Microsoft Excel with a scary face drawn on it, but after googling for tutorials and shortcuts I've started to be able to find the tools I need. And I can already see how it's going to be the most useful thing ever. Corel was a great starting point; it has a beautiful interface, is functional and non-intimidating, but Photoshop seems to have everything it can do and more.

So have day 1 of my conversion to Photoshop: Some clouds! Kinda boring, but now I know how to do clouds!

http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/409/day59a.jpg

Domochevsky

2011-07-19, 09:55 AM

I don't think you know how to do clouds yet, actually. Try harder. :smallwink:

Thanqol

2011-07-19, 09:59 AM

I don't think you know how to do clouds yet, actually. Try harder. :smallwink:

Well, let me phrase that slightly differently. Now I know how to do clouds that don't look like this:

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/2421/unledrz.jpg

Glass Mouse

2011-07-19, 10:56 AM

I think those clouds are a big step forward. You've got the light fluffiness of summer clouds down. One thing to remember, though, is that clouds shouldn't have an outline.

And that Hugh drawing looks really good. You're rocking the silhoutte look.
Next step is working with different degrees of shadows. Try drawing a face with only 0%, 25%, 75% and 100% black to help you out. Go different shadow levels and highlights!

Thanqol

2011-07-20, 05:45 AM

Day 60: Creative Deficiencies

Two months. As good a time for any as a retrospective, really.

A couple of months ago I was making jokes about how bad my drawing skills were. I illustrated my case with the following image: The Pone

http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/75/apone.jpg

Yeah. I don't think it's possible to get any worse than that.

And so I continued, content in my terribleness at art. If I really wanted a picture, surely it was easier to commission a guy than learn how to draw myself? This attitude held strong right up until I did this picture.

http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/6440/poneeee.png

Still godawful, as we can all agree. But something about that picture. Some look in her eyes, something about that smile, or stance, or colour scheme - something struck me about it. It was an 80 second MS paint abomination, but there was a soul in there. That wasn't just a demonstration of my failure. That was a character. That was a character trapped inside the body of a terrible artist. And she was okay with that.

That picture's really what drove me into this project, and I'm so glad it did, because I don't regret this for a second. It's been tough to update every single day, and there have been many times when I've considered making excuses or doing some cop-out picture. It's hard. It's hard, hard, hard, hard hard and it's also hard to determine if you're making progress or just imagining you are.

But, you know whenever anyone asks anyone what the secret to anything is? Cooking, drawing, writing, playing basketball or Starcraft, or whatever? They will always, always say 'practise, practise, practise'. And everyone smiles, nods, and assumes they're being modest about their natural gifts. But they're telling the absolute truth. Sixty days, sixty days of hard work and see how far I've come from the above MS Paint Abominations. And I can't even imagine where I'll be in a year.

So that does not segue at all into today's picture. Photoshop's fill tool had this weird thing where it didn't fill totally, and instead left a bit of an outline, probably due to the brush type I was using. Rather than figuring out how to fix it, I ran with it and produced something cool.

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/8008/day60aedited1.jpg

Time: 1 Hour
Music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWXmFyPNAeg): Calma