A decent Core Monk fix.

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

From what I have read, the main problems with the Monk are:
1: A lack of synergy with it's high movement and flurry of blows
2: A 15/10/5 BAB progression
3: A lower then average Hit Die for a martial character
4: M.A.D
5:The damage is too low
6: Too few skill points
7: A bunch of pointless/situational/useless class features

In my recent readings of the Core books I have discovered what might be a good core monk fix.

The lycanthrope, more specifically the Weretiger.

It grants pounce (1), adds +4 BAB (2), adds 6d8+18 hp (3), gives a massive boost to strength, a good boost to constitution and an ok boost to dexterity, also all lycanthropes grant a +2 to wisdom and natural armor (4), when in hybrid or animal form you are a large character (5) and you gain skills for your animal Hit Die (6-ish).

By just playing core I believe that I have fixed (to an extent) 6 of the 7 main problems. With the addition of Unearthed Arcana you can make 7 a bit better and with the Invisible Fist ACF from Exemplars of Evil you can make that even better.

Does this fix seem sound in theory?

[Godskook]

Not nearly as good as you're thinking, and I suspect that that's due to a misunderstanding about how LA and RHD work. Basically, a PC playing a weretiger monk couldn't do so until ECL 10, and then he'd be a lvl 1 monk, and have only 7 HD(6 RHD and 1 monk HD).

[Greenish]

Adding 18-19 levels of psychic warrior is also a nice fix to monk, as is adding five levels of cleric and then Sacred Fist. :smallamused:

[Lateral]

But that's not core. You know what's on the SRD, though? Fist of Zuoken. :smallamused:

[true_shinken]

Not nearly as good as you're thinking, and I suspect that that's due to a misunderstanding about how LA and RHD work. Basically, a PC playing a weretiger monk couldn't do so until ECL 10, and then he'd be a lvl 1 monk, and have only 7 HD(6 RHD and 1 monk HD).

I believe his point is that a Monk 20 (well, 19, due to perfect self) could be infected with lycanthropy.

[Greenish]

I believe his point is that a Monk 20 (well, 19, due to perfect self) could be infected with lycanthropy.I doubt that, since he's talking about monk fix. Having to claw your way to level 19 then jumping to ECL 28 is hardly a fix.

[FMArthur]

All it takes to match or exceed other melee classes not named Druid in a core only game is pounce. But to properly fix the class without ripping it out of the book and starting from scratch, I would make all of its 1/any amount of time abilities 1/encounter and let it substitute Wisdom for Strength in all of its uses except carrying capacity, in addition to granting pounce.

[Greenish]

let it substitute Wisdom for Strength in all of its uses except carrying capacitySubstitute? I think add would be better.

[Veyr]

I'm not sure if the Monk abilities are all that impressive even 1/encounter. Quivering Palm, OK, that's pretty good if you can stick it (good luck...). Empty Body's excellent but it comes at 19 (and if that's really Monk level rounds/encounter, the Monk has no business ever being not-ethereal — which is probably fine, balance-wise, but it needs to give some native Ghost Touch ability I think).

But Wholeness of Body healing twice Monk level, even once per encounter... I mean, that is a useful class feature, as opposed to what it was before, but it's really not that impressive. Abundant Step at 1/encounter is... I feel like the Monk is going to want that to come up more. Also, it needs to not be based on Dimension Door. Slow Fall, most of the Ki Strikes, various defenses... are still meh.

[FMArthur]

Substitute? I think add would be better.

Only if you have a Strength score 12 or higher. Just adding it doesn't let a Monk dump Strength, which he needs to be able to do for his MAD between Str, Dex, Con and Wis to actually become managable.

[Veyr]

Eh, to be able to take advantage of multiple abilities is OK; you can start with a Str 10 Monk, and then when it becomes trivially inexpensive, buy a +2 Str or +4 Str item for a relatively cheap boost to to-hit and damage. It's a pretty good deal. It depends on the level you play at, though. And the point-buy, I suppose.

[Greenish]

Only if you have a Strength score 12 or higher. Just adding it doesn't let a Monk dump Strength, which he needs to be able to do for his MAD between Str, Dex, Con and Wis to actually become managable.Eh, slapping a 10 there isn't that hard, and you'll benefit from easier boosting, or good rolls, or spreading the pb around. And that makes one more style of monk possible.

[Eh, Edit]: Eh, Swordsaged.

[Popertop]

Only if you have a Strength score 12 or higher. Just adding it doesn't let a Monk dump Strength, which he needs to be able to do for his MAD between Str, Dex, Con and Wis to actually become managable.

so, you sub it if the monk's strength score is negative, and you add it if it is positive

[true_shinken]

I doubt that, since he's talking about monk fix. Having to claw your way to level 19 then jumping to ECL 28 is hardly a fix.

While I agree, that's the only way his post makes sense, since he talks about weretiger 'adding BAB' and the like.

[Godskook]

Only if you have a Strength score 12 or higher. Just adding it doesn't let a Monk dump Strength, which he needs to be able to do for his MAD between Str, Dex, Con and Wis to actually become managable.

Shadow Blade's "add dex" wording has always been seen as a boon to swordsages, so I'm guessing design that rewards more even scores isn't really a big issue. Besides, "add wis to everything str does" means you don't really need a strong dex anymore either. It was only providing AC and possibly attack rolls(ala weapon finesse), but with wis+str on attack rolls and wis to AC, you can have a 10-12 in dex and still be fine.

And double-dip attack-roll stat bonuses are *STRONG*. With 14 Str and 14 Wis, you're beating out everything that doesn't have 18 primary stat and full BAB(or barbarians). At mid levels, that means getting your +4 enhancement ala two +2 enhancments, at essentially half price. At late game, you're using two +6 stat items on your attack rolls when everyone else is stuck using one, especially in core.

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

Not nearly as good as you're thinking, and I suspect that that's due to a misunderstanding about how LA and RHD work. Basically, a PC playing a weretiger monk couldn't do so until ECL 10, and then he'd be a lvl 1 monk, and have only 7 HD(6 RHD and 1 monk HD).

Yeah, this.