of monkeys and swords.

[chainer1216]

so, i had the random thought of making a sorc/wiz who has a monkey familiar that he's given a skillfull sword, of some sort, to use. but i have a couple questions.

1. is there some way for me to get a monkey as a familiar? its about on par with the other base familiars, so i think imp. amiliar is a bit overkill at this point, would it be too much to just ask my DM if its cool to just take it?

2. how can i make the monkey as effective at swordfighting as possable, while keeping it a monkey/familiar?

[Mayhem]

Ask your DM for one, it seems fair for a monkey to be a familiar as is and I'd say it could give +3 to climb like a lizard familiar.

For making it a sword fighter, well you'll need to somehow get dexterity to attack rolls so weapon finesse somehow. The only way I can think of at the moment is, your DM might allow an intelligent familiar to have different starting feats from creatures of its kind. Celestial and fiendish familars are automatically intelligent so with one of them from the improved familiar feat your DM might let it take weapon finesse in place of one of its other feats.

Not really much all I can think of sorry, good luck.

[Yora]

Animals still would need 2 HD to take Weapon Finesse, which normal familiars don't have, celestial or not.

[Coidzor]

I think monkeys might've been on the list of expanded basic familiars that Dragon Magazine made.

Anyone recall yea or nay?

As far as #2 goes, well, start gishing it up so that your HP and BAB increase to the point where it could take a hit or two and also hit enemies. ...And trade familiar from wizard for something else and instead get a familiar using the obtain familiar feat so it's tied to caster level rather than wizard level, so at least its natural armor gets better.

I'd say you'd want to get a tiny creature a reach weapon instead of a sword though.

[Godskook]

I'm going to assume you're not too stuck on the 'monkey' part of this, and go for the more general theme of primate familiar with a sword.

Druid 3/Wiz 3/MT 2/AH 10/MT +2

You may now have an Ape familiar companion who is treated as a minimal lvl 10 animal companion, or lvl 14 if you snag natural bond. Also has familiar abilities as if a lvl 17 wizard, due to Obtain familiar. All you're missing on the familiar side is 1 int and 1 NA, aka not much.

[Cog]

I'd say you'd want to get a tiny creature a reach weapon instead of a sword though.
Reach weapons double reach, not add to it. If you have no reach to start with, a reach weapon has no benefit.

[FMArthur]

See if you can get some specific Pathfinder material (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard#TOC-Familiars) shoehorned into the game. They can have monkeys as familiars, and monkeys use their Dexterity bonus on attack rolls... actually, that's only with Natural Weapons, it looks like. Nonetheless, that looks like a good starting point.

[Coidzor]

Reach weapons double reach, not add to it. If you have no reach to start with, a reach weapon has no benefit.

Eh, I've seen enough support for tiny creatures with reach weapons being able to effect the squares around them from WOTC's cust serv and FAQ acting like they intended for it that way all along and groups using a modicum of sense that it was a fair cop to mention. :smalltongue:

[Greenish]

Eh, I've seen enough support for tiny creatures with reach weapons being able to effect the squares around them from WOTC's cust serv and FAQ acting like they intended for it that way all along and groups using a modicum of sense that it was a fair cop to mention. :smalltongue:Well, Custserv and FAQ are what they are, and as for a modicum of sense… Does your tiny (1-2 ft. tall) character really wield a weapon 5+ ft. long?

[true_shinken]

Gte him a feycrafted light weapon and you don't need Weapon Finesse.

[Geigan]

If you get him a stick you could go for a Journey to the West theme.:smallbiggrin:

[wuwuwu]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/monkey.htm
Monkeys get Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat.
Anyways, Familiars gain HD as their master, but always have half as much HP as the master. I've also always assumed that, because it gains HD, it gains feats and ability points as everything else in the game does.

And yes, Monkey familiar treated as a lizard familiar seems fine to me.
Of course, all of the opinion I've thrown down in this post is meaningless, as I'm not your DM (or am I?).

So, while you could use this post as a compelling argument for why your swashbuckling monkey should work, don't depend on anything I've said except for the monkey gaining Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, and Familiars gaining HD.

[Greenish]

Anyways, Familiars gain HD as their masterThey don't.


A familiar is a normal animal that gains new powers and becomes a magical beast when summoned to service by a sorcerer or wizard. It retains the appearance, Hit Dice, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, skills, and feats of the normal animal it once was, but it is treated as a magical beast instead of an animal for the purpose of any effect that depends on its type.

…

Hit Dice
For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master’s character level or the familiar’s normal HD total, whichever is higher.

[Godskook]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/monkey.htm
Monkeys get Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat.
Anyways, Familiars gain HD as their master, but always have half as much HP as the master. I've also always assumed that, because it gains HD, it gains feats and ability points as everything else in the game does.

Except it *DOESN'T* gain actual HD. It gains 'effective' HD for the purpose of effects that are concerned with HD, such as negative levels or Holy Word(Most familiars will die from the 5hp/negative level before they die from the negative levels).

Compare the wording with animal companions, psicrystals, or special mounts, who all gain *ACTUAL* HD, and for whom your logic is rather sound.

[wuwuwu]

Oops! My mistake then. So familiars don't gain feats or ability points. But, it seems psicrystals don't either? I can't find anything suggesting they do (the psicrystal section of the psion class on the SRD don't say anything about HD, but that may be because nothing psionic really depends on it?).

LUCKILY I have never played anything with a familiar or psicrystal, so I haven't accidentally over-advanced my little friends.

[Greenish]

But, it seems psicrystals don't either? I can't find anything suggesting they do (the psicrystal section of the psion class on the SRD don't say anything about HD, but that may be because nothing psionic really depends on it?).Psicrystal explicitly gain HD, and thus feats.

A psicrystal’s characteristics depend on its master. Its Hit Dice are equal to its master’s Hit Dice (counting only levels in psion or wilder), its hit points are equal to half its master’s, and its saving throw bonuses are the same as its master’s.

[Lord.Sorasen]

I think monkeys might've been on the list of expanded basic familiars that Dragon Magazine made.

Anyone recall yea or nay?

It is. It's actually in there twice (I couldn't tell you why, I'm looking from a Crystal Keep thing). The bonuses are +3 climb or +3 tumble. It seems specifically or rather than and. I could see a pretty boss Wizard/Monk with a monkey familiar now, actually, all tumbling about.


Well, Custserv and FAQ are what they are, and as for a modicum of sense… Does your tiny (1-2 ft. tall) character really wield a weapon 5+ ft. long?

That's not really how reach works though. A small character has 5 feet of reach even when unarmed, and 10 feet of reach with a reach weapon. There's no way a gnome is carrying a 10 ft long weapon. That's like 3 gnomes.

Characters don't take up the entire 5 ft. square. Reach is more about whether you can attack them at a distance, before they get too close, and I'd honestly say it makes perfect sense that a tiny character with a relatively long weapon would gain such an advantage.

Honestly though reach is dumb. A tall, large creature can make a bite attack at a ridiculous range, etc etc.

[gorfnab]

I think monkeys might've been on the list of expanded basic familiars that Dragon Magazine made.

Anyone recall yea or nay?

Dragon Magazine #341 page 88.

[Thurbane]

You could use the UA ACF to get an Animal Companion instead of a Familiar.


Simple Variant
A sorcerer or wizard might desire a more durable companion to accompany him on excursions into the wilderness.
Gain: Animal companion (as druid; treat sorcerer or wizard as a druid ofhalf his class level).
Lose: Familiar.

...although you lose the benefits of a familiar, you could get an Ape or Dire Ape (will require higher levels) instead. One of them swinging a skillful sword would be pretty sweet.

[Cog]

...although you lose the benefits of a familiar, you could get an Ape or Dire Ape (will require higher levels) instead. One of them swinging a skillful sword would be pretty sweet.
Without any AC level boosts, an ape companion would just barely be getting his first iterative attack when you hit level twenty. Animals get 3/4 BAB anyway, so Skillful only gets you proficiency anyway.

[Thurbane]

Yeah...for some reason I missed the whole "druid of half your level" clause. :smallredface:

There's always the Natural Bond feat to help a little, but probably not worth it...

[Godskook]

Yeah...for some reason I missed the whole "druid of half your level" clause. :smallredface:

There's always the Natural Bond feat to help a little, but probably not worth it...

And besides that, the Arcane Heirophant, while more build dependent, should work out better too.