Two-Weapon Fighting + Wolf Fang Strike

[HiddenLineage]

So I've been looking all over google, and can't find the answer to this.

Swordsage or Warblade doesn't really matter here, since both can do it.

If you have the Two-Weapon Fighting Feat with light weapons your penalty is already -2. Wolf Fang Strike lets you attack with both at a -2 penalty instead of the regular penalty. What if you use Wolf Fang Strike while using the Two Weapon Fighting feat? Would it lower it even more, or no effect at all?

[Siosilvar]

Wolf Fang Strike is not associated with Two-Weapon Fighting in any way. The only similarity is that both let you attack with two weapons.

TWF requires a full attack and gives you an extra attack at the cost of penalties. Wolf Fang Strike lets you attack with two weapons at a -2 penalty as a standard action.

[HiddenLineage]

So basically if I have the Two Weapon Fighting feat then skip Wolf Fang Strike?

[RaggedAngel]

So basically if I have the Two Weapon Fighting feat then skip Wolf Fang Strike?

Dear lord, not at all. Wolf Fang Strike is a standard action; you can move and then attack with both weapons, as opposed to Two-Weapon Fighting, which requires a full attack. So, you use TWF when you have an opponent within 5 feet, and Wolf Fang Strike whenever you have an enemy within 30 feet.

[HiddenLineage]

So which of these should I replace with it then?

Shadow Blade Technique
Burning Blade
Mighty Throw
Sudden Leap
Stone Bones
Clinging Shadow Strike

[Xyk]

Dear lord, not at all.


So which of these should I replace with it then?



:confused:

[HiddenLineage]

:confused:

What was that for?

[Cheesy74]

http://www.fantasysharks.com/forum/images/smilies/facepalm.gif
Take Wolf Fang Strike. It is a good maneuver. Use it.

[dsmiles]

Because Ragged Angel said you shouldn't replace it. Then you asked what to replace it with. It's a little confusing why you would want to give up two attacks as a standard action for one extra attack only on a full attack.

@Cheesy74: I must know...where did you find the facepalm smiley?

[Gorgondantess]

Let me put it in simple terms:
Wolf Fang Strike allows you to use your two weapons as a standard action as opposed to a full-round action. So, if you're using two weapons, it's nice to have. If you're not, then don't take it.

[HiddenLineage]

Oh. I misphrased it.

Out of what I listed, what should I take out to put Wolf Fang Strike in?

[Cheesy74]

@Cheesy74: I must know...where did you find the facepalm smiley?
Google searched it, tossed the URL into some image tags, presto.

[dsmiles]

Google searched it, tossed the URL into some image tags, presto.
Oh, that's easy enough. I just thought you knew some BBCode magic that I didn't. (Not that that would be difficult to do.)

[Greensleeves]

Oh. I misphrased it.

Out of what I listed, what should I take out to put Wolf Fang Strike in?

Shadow Blade Technique isn't very good, neither is Stone Bones in the long run.

Also, this should've been posted in the 3.5 Subforum, just so you know next time.

[HiddenLineage]

Well, I should also mention this. I'm going Swordsage, of course using two weapons...What about prestige classing out? The only one I see that wouldn't cripple me seems to be Master of Nine. Also, putting my Discipline Focus(Weapon Focus) into Short Swords for Shadow Hand. Plan on taking Shadow Blade feat later on too.

Edit: Sorry about the wrong part of the message board thing.

[Geigan]

Well, I should also mention this. I'm going Swordsage, of course using two weapons...What about prestige classing out? The only one I see that wouldn't cripple me seems to be Master of Nine. Also, putting my Discipline Focus(Weapon Focus) into Short Swords for Shadow Hand. Plan on taking Shadow Blade feat later on too.

Edit: Sorry about the wrong part of the message board thing.

Well the problem with MoN is that it requires a lot of feats to qualify and on top of TWF it's going to be a hard time fitting everything in. Straight swordsage is perfectly viable.

[HiddenLineage]

All the Prestige classes seem to be aimed more at Warblade than Swordsage it seems.

[dsmiles]

I'm a big fan of the Shadowsun Ninja, myself. Then again, I like ninjas.

[Geigan]

All the Prestige classes seem to be aimed more at Warblade than Swordsage it seems.

Don't forget about a shadow-sun ninja or JPM. Though as a TWF neither are what you're looking for. Bloodclaw master could work though is considered a trap by some. A couple levels of it are pretty good though, for Superior TWF as well as full str bonus on both hands. Not great but possibly worth it.

[HiddenLineage]

Using the Shadow Hand weapons and the Shadow Blade Feat wouldn't work well with Bloodclaw Master, Superior Two Weapon Fighting with it needs to use Tiger Claw weapons.

[Geigan]

Using the Shadow Hand weapons and the Shadow Blade Feat wouldn't work well with Bloodclaw Master, Superior Two Weapon Fighting with it needs to use Tiger Claw weapons.

Ah yes, that wouldn't work unless you dual wield unarmed strikes and were an unarmed swordsage. A bit inapplicable as well as weird rules wise. My bad.

[Greensleeves]

Using the Shadow Hand weapons and the Shadow Blade Feat wouldn't work well with Bloodclaw Master, Superior Two Weapon Fighting with it needs to use Tiger Claw weapons.

Actually, daggers are valid target for both Superior Two-Weapon Fighting and Shadow Blade. So it would work.

[Greenish]

Actually, daggers are valid target for both Superior Two-Weapon Fighting and Shadow Blade. So it would work.Also Unarmed Strike, but that'd cost a feat (unless you grabbed it from a magic item).

[Edit]: Or if you were unarmed swordsage, of course.

[HiddenLineage]

I don't wanna use daggers or go unarmed though. I already planned it out to use Short Swords.

[Geigan]

I don't wanna use daggers or go unarmed though. I already planned it out to use Short Swords.

Straight swordsage then I suppose.

[Greenish]

Straight swordsage then I suppose.Nothing wrong with that, either. There's no point going prestige class for the sake of going prestige class.

[Godskook]

I don't wanna use daggers or go unarmed though. I already planned it out to use Short Swords.

Planned *what* out with short swords? Literally nothing I've heard mentioned in this thread is short sword specific. The swordsage weapon focus class feature works with all weapons within the selected discipline, unlike the feat normally does, so unless you're planning something on the build outside of what you posted, I don't see where weapon choice makes a significant difference towards choosing to go into bloodclaw master.

[HiddenLineage]

The first Discipline Focus is for weapons Gonna go for short swords. My race is gonna be Drow(Gonna talk to the DM about house ruling to drop the OP spell resistance). So with TWF I'd be getting only a -1 penalty on mainhand and offhand, and I can still use them with the Shadow Blade feat.

I've also seen alot of people saying they did a Rogue/Swordsage mix...wonder if there's any real use in that, that won't gimp me.

[Fouredged Sword]

A dash of Rogue is great for evasion. Another good options is to take two levels of monk ( or any other evasion granting class) and two levels of Rogue. Now take the ray reflection alt class feature for Rogue and then go swordsage for 16 levels. You get to start with 2nd level manuvers as soon as you get into the swordsage area, due to the none-Martial classes granting 1/2 leves for strikes and such.

Now you take the mage slayer and pierce magical concelment line and go kill some wizards.

If they throw fireballs you evade. If they shoot rays you reflect them. If they cast save or dies you use dimond mind manuvers to say yes to saves. If they buff them selves you kill them in melee with your awsome strikes and such.

Go to town as the anti-wizard.

[HiddenLineage]

Except that Swordsage already gets Evasion and Improved Evasion on it's own. >_> But for the rest I can sorta' see where it'd be useful.

[Godskook]

The first Discipline Focus is for weapons Gonna go for short swords

No, you're misunderstanding your choice. You pick a *discipline*, and you get *all* the weapons from that discipline for weapon focus.

[Longcat]

Note that with Wolf Fang Strike, your Off-hand gets full Str bonus too,since you aren't using the TWF rules.

[HiddenLineage]

No, you're misunderstanding your choice. You pick a *discipline*, and you get *all* the weapons from that discipline for weapon focus.

Wish Bloodclaw Master's Superior Two Weapon Fighting included more weapon types.

[Dusto]

A dash of Rogue is great for evasion. Another good options is to take two levels of monk ( or any other evasion granting class) and two levels of Rogue. Now take the ray reflection alt class feature for Rogue and then go swordsage for 16 levels. You get to start with 2nd level manuvers as soon as you get into the swordsage area, due to the none-Martial classes granting 1/2 leves for strikes and such.

Now you take the mage slayer and pierce magical concelment line and go kill some wizards.

If they throw fireballs you evade. If they shoot rays you reflect them. If they cast save or dies you use dimond mind manuvers to say yes to saves. If they buff them selves you kill them in melee with your awsome strikes and such.

Go to town as the anti-wizard.

Wow, this really intrigued me. Any chance you could post up a build or two of this, using ECL 9 and Human race? Maybe Monk 2/ Rogue 2/ Swordsage 5 or Rogue 2/Monk 2/Fighter 2/Swordsage 3? Would be open to any weapon idea.

[FMArthur]

It's a really cool idea, but I can't help but think that it doesn't do anything about certain maddening caster mainstays such as summoned critters with bonuses to special attacks, Evard's Black Tentacles, and illusions/invisibility/flight. Obviously its near-immunity to spells that require touch attacks and save effects is extraordinary, but what does it do when grappled or tripped, for instance, with its weak BAB?

[Keld Denar]

Well, Spell Reflection only works if they miss your touch AC. Its easier to boost to-hit than it is to boost Touch AC, although Swordsages DO get that nice +Wis to AC thinggy.

The other nice thing about dipping Rogue is that it allows you to have Craven always turned one, giving you freedom to use other SH stances than just Assassin's Stance. Craven is good and does rediculous amounts of damage, so having it on regardless of stance is a bit worthwhile when you have to switch to Island of Blades or such because you can't get around the foe to flank them or use any other boosts like Cloak of Deception or Distracting Ember because you've already used them. 3 levels of Rogue also gets you Penetrating Strike ACF (or the Lightbringer Rogue sub levels from EtCR) in place of Trap Sense, which is important for punching that almighty Craven damage into anything that would otherwise say NO.

[subject42]

If they throw fireballs you evade. If they shoot rays you reflect them. If they cast save or dies you use dimond mind manuvers to say yes to saves. If they buff them selves you kill them in melee with your awsome strikes and such.

Go to town as the anti-wizard.

Are you building this with the assumption of fractional BAB rules?

[FMArthur]

Making the build primarily draw off Ranger levels might alleviate BAB problems, as well as provide a handful of benefits for bringing down casters, particularly sneaky ones:
Arcane Hunter (Complete Mage) lets you choose arcane spellcasters and invocation users as a Favored Enemy.
Detect Favored Enemy (1st, Spell Compendium) detects your favored enemies with some time spent.
Guided Shot (1st, Spell Compendium) lets you ignore distance, cover and concealment.
Listening Lorecall/Tremorsense (2nd, Spell Compendium) gives you blindsight, blindsense and a bonus on Listen checks, or tremorsense.

As well as a Sneak Attack spell (PHII), archery benefits/attack spells and some melee attack spells. It also gives you Evasion. Favored Enemy: Arcanists and Magebane (MIC) weapons combined with all your awareness spells and free movement via your Swordsage dip (1 level at 9th gets you the defenses and a couple spare maneuvers) basically make any arcane caster who has not protected himself from all physical harm dead on sight as far as you're concerned. With your protections (just the Spell Reflection ACF and the save maneuvers are enough, no need to waste levels in other Evasion classes for the same effect as a Ring of Evasion) only a very specifically-prepared mage would be able to stand up to you.

Unfortunately the ray reflection only comes online at 10th level (Rangers get Evasion at 9th, and you're dipping Swordsage right then). You can go Mystic Ranger if slower Favored Enemy progression and loss of Animal Companion are okay trades for more plentiful & earlier spellcasting. There are some good 4th level spells like Freedom of Movement (actually, FoM is probably vital to your success) and Implacable Pursuer that you would be able to cast starting at level 8.

[kardar233]

If you're going a Mage-Slaying route, then try taking Martial Study: Wall of Blades, which will allow you to attack away all those pesky rays.

[Pechvarry]

So which of these should I replace with it then?

Shadow Blade Technique
Burning Blade
Mighty Throw
Sudden Leap
Stone Bones
Clinging Shadow Strike

I think you actually need Wolf Fang Strike in order to get Sudden Leap or any other 1st level Tiger Claw maneuver, so fitting it in just took a higher priority.

--

I believe, Godskook, short swords are just what the OP wants for their character.

Dear OP: there's a half-drow somewhere to ditch some level adjustment, but I don't know specifics. You're not a huge Drizz't fan, are you?

[Veyr]

I think you actually need Wolf Fang Strike in order to get Sudden Leap or any other 1st level Tiger Claw maneuver, so fitting it in just took a higher priority.
Wolf Fang Strike, Rabid Wolf Strike, and Wolf Claws at the Moon are the only Tiger Claw maneuvers without a prerequisite of at least 1 Tiger Claw maneuver.

It's really incredibly stupid, especially when Wolf Fang Strike is very specialized, the other two are 2nd level, and Sudden Leap is so broadly useful.

[Greenish]

Wish Bloodclaw Master's Superior Two Weapon Fighting included more weapon types.Yeah, at the very least it should include all of the Tiger Claw weapons. I was really bummed when I noticed it doesn't. :smallannoyed:

[Edit]:
Wolf Claws at the MoonActually, you Claw at the Moon. The Wolf Climbs the Mountain. :smalltongue:

[Veyr]

Actually, you Claw at the Moon. The Wolf Climbs the Mountain. :smalltongue:
Yeah, I was pretty sure I got something wrong there. Rabid Wolf Strike is another maneuver entirely, too, right, higher level with a pre-req?

I meant the two 2nd level maneuvers.

[Greenish]

Yeah, I was pretty sure I got something wrong there. Rabid Wolf Strike is another maneuver entirely, too, right, higher level with a pre-req?Wolf Climbs the Mountain is a higher level (6) maneuver with prerequisites, Claw at the Moon and Rapid Wolf Strike are the 2nd level ones you're thinking of.

I was just joking on the names.

[HiddenLineage]

I think you actually need Wolf Fang Strike in order to get Sudden Leap or any other 1st level Tiger Claw maneuver, so fitting it in just took a higher priority.

--

I believe, Godskook, short swords are just what the OP wants for their character.

Dear OP: there's a half-drow somewhere to ditch some level adjustment, but I don't know specifics. You're not a huge Drizz't fan, are you?


Honestly I don't know much about Drizzt. I do know that in the game I'm gonna run my Drow Swordsage in, I plan on house ruling that Drow PCs cannot have their OP spell resistance or immunity to magical sleep effects.

[Veyr]

Wolf Climbs the Mountain is a higher level (6) maneuver with prerequisites, Claw at the Moon and Rapid Wolf Strike are the 2nd level ones you're thinking of.
Ahh, so I was closer than I thought. Well, that's nice, heh.

Bizarre how many Tiger Claw maneuvers deal with wolves. There are a bunch of mongeese, a couple of dragons, and at least one girallon, too. Are there any that actually have "Tiger" in the name?


I was just joking on the names.
Indeed; I was amused, too, heh.

[Greenish]

Are there any that actually have "Tiger" in the name?Now that you mention it, no. Mongoose, wolf, wolverine, dragon, girallon, bear, raptor (as in bird of prey), but no tiger.

Of course, if you like elaborate names, you could add "Tiger" or "Tiger's" in front of every maneuver not named after an animal. Or even to those, I guess.

[Edit]:
Honestly I don't know much about Drizzt. I do know that in the game I'm gonna run my Drow Swordsage in, I plan on house ruling that Drow PCs cannot have their OP spell resistance or immunity to magical sleep effects.I hope you realize that drow are a really weak race as is? Besides, sleep immunity is rather minor (and all elves have it), while spell resistance is a two-edged sword, and the edge that helps you isn't that big.

[HiddenLineage]

How is it a two edged sword?

[Greenish]

How is it a two edged sword?It's spell resistance. It makes you resistant to spells. Including healing and buffs (granted, you can lower it, but that takes a standard action and leaves you without it's benefits for the whole round).

And of course, there are several SR: No spells that just don't care about it, such as summons, orbs, most walls and so forth.

[HiddenLineage]

Wow, I didn't know it was for friendly spells too. My old DM let friendly spells go right on through it when we acquired some SR.

[Greenish]

Wow, I didn't know it was for friendly spells too. My old DM let friendly spells go right on through it when we acquired some SR.You never wondered why all those buffs and healing spells had "Spell Resistance: Yes (Harmless)" tag? :smalltongue:

[HiddenLineage]

Haha. I always disrgarded it cause of the "Harmless" tag.

[Keld Denar]

That, and Drow have a +2 LA, but the SR is dependant on your HD, rather than your ECL, so you are 2 points of SR behind an equal level player. Also, most casters that are BBEGs are going to be 1-3 levels higher than you, and thus have a CL 1-3 higher than you, or more, depending on gear/build. All that together results in about a 15-25% chance of resisting incoming spells that allow SR while resisting about 40% of buffs that allow SR (hint, nearly all buffs allow SR, including heals).

THAT is primarily why Drow are bad. You pay a +2 LA for something that is essentially a drawback more often than not.

[Veyr]

Even if the SR was voluntary and you could let stuff through when you wanted, they'd still be bad. LA +2 is a lot.

[HiddenLineage]

LA +2 is something else that I never really could figure out. I looked around but couldn't find anything to really explain it to me.

[Greenish]

LA +2 is something else that I never really could figure out. I looked around but couldn't find anything to really explain it to me.Level adjustment means that you count as higher level than you really are for Effective Character Level.

Basically, if your party starts at level 3, you'll have a single level in a class and two LA, while people with LA 0 characters have three levels of their chosen class(es).

If you start at level 1, you can't be a drow.

[Keld Denar]

Some races are stronger than others. The core races are all more or less balanced against each other (ok, well, humans are better, and half-orcs are worse, but for the most part, the deadband is there).

Some races have more cool things that make them much stronger than others. Things like being large, or having a bunch of spell like abilities, or better stat adjustments, or having SR, make them much stronger races.

To balance this out, there is Level Adjustment. LA effectively replaces character levels. When you are mathing out how powerful you should be, and how much XP you need to get to the next level, you add your LA to your total character levels, and this is how strong you "effectively" are, your Effective Character Level. When you add up your skills, abilities, HP, and everything else attached to hit dice, however, you are behind.

A Drow Fighter2 is ECL4, and should be fighting things that a Human Fighter4 should be fighting. They both should have the same amount of XP, and the same amount of treasure, but the human has 2 extra levels while the Drow has his SR and higher stat adjustments. The two SHOULD be roughtly equal.

The only issue with this, however, is that LA is way over-estimated in most regards, especially for most things above +1. WotC thought that SR was really strong when they first developed the game, just like they thought that DR was really strong. In reality, some of their numbers are a bit too low, and thus the abilities are generally over-priced for their usefulness.

It all goes back to the very old "build point" mentality. X ability is worth 2 build points, Y ability is worth 5, Z ability is worth 10. In theory, when you add up all the build points, the characters should be roughly the same power...except that in 3.5, they aren't.

[Arbitrarious]

True and there really isn't a great solution either. Buyout helps, but characters playing non-ECL races can feel shortchanged. This especially true if you start at the mid-levels where some buyouts have already occurred.

Personally my biggest issue with ECL is the lower quantity and quality of HD impacts so much. Yeah I can stand LA as high +4, except that is usually on top of HD that makes fighter look good. There are 2 decent HD, dragon and outsider, and 1 mediocre, magical beast, everything else is just awful and they never really balance the lack of class features those HD represent, let alone HP, skill ranks, and saves.

Back on topic, remember theme is mutable. Do you want the drow chassis or just the drow look? If look then pick and elf, or really any medium humanoid race, say it's black and have at it. Since MM creatures are the average it's certainly not impossible even from a fluff perspective to have a drow lacking the stereotypical traits. Or you could scale back the the spell-likes drop the SR and have serviceable +1 race ala plane-touched. Talk to your DM about getting dark vision on a regular elf. From my experience unless the entire party or the scout has it it is seldom useful.

If you have the feats or a willing a dip in crusader pick up thicket of blades with mage slayer. Use shadow hand to get up on them and they will have very few options to get away from you.

[Fouredged Sword]

Lets see.

Rogue-2/monk-2/swordsage 5

Build feats and key abilities
Rogue 1 -Blind Fighting
Rogue 2 -Evasion - skip monk if the build starts as ECL 11 as swordsage gets evasion within the starting build without monk, otherwise I like to have evasion built into character creation. (replace this with ray reflection)
Monk 1 -Unarmed strike prof, Focused attack replaces Flurry.
Monk 2 -Ray reflection
Swordsage 1-
Swordsage 2-Now you have +3 bab, and you have 3 feats saved by delaying them to later levels (or retrain them at this point in character creation)
Take - Pierce Magical concelment, Mage slayer, and Pierce magical protection.
If you are useing fractional Bab, then you hit this point earlier, so take advantage of that and take as many of these feats as early as posible. Doesn't really matter if you start at 9th level though.
Swordsage 3-after this point take whatever you wish. Good choices are craven, power attack (though you don't have full bab, it's still good as wizards don't have much non magic armor)
Swordsage 4-
Swordsage 5-

Strikes, boosts, and counters of note - you likely can't take em all, but they are worth looking at.
1st level
- Distracting ember, Sapphire Nightmare Blade - get your sneak attack in
- Counter charge - many summons charge, use this to move them aside to clear the way to the wizard
- sudden leap - swift action movement? Yes please.
- Moment of Perfect Mind - first save counter
2nd level
- Mountain Hammer - ToB lockpick
- Action Before Thought - second save boost, not vital, but useful if you roll bad for reflex
- Shadow Jaunt - movement, movement, movement
3rd level
- ZEPHYR DANCE - just in case they almost miss with a ray.
- Mind Over Body - last save booster
- Soaring Raptor Strike - for killing those large summons
4th
- Searing Charge - get to those pesky flying wizards
5th
- Leaping Flame - shoot rays at me will you!

Ok, starting off the game things on your wish list - free movement is a big deal, but you are unlikely to get it. A manuver granting item for leaping flame is a good idea. Anklets of translocation are great as well. Get enough money for a wand of counterspell and flight. Nothing says crap like dispelling fly, and flying is a great advantage for you. Wield a two handed monk weapon in one and use unarmed strikes for most stuff.

Tactics - Ok shadow jaunt next to wizard, kill next round. If they Aoe you evade, if they throw a save or lose, make the save, if they shoot a ray dodge and reflect it, then use that to teleprt next to the wizard for a quick kill. If they use a spell like tenticals to grapple you shadow jaunt next to the wizard. If they fly teleprt next to them and fall, use searing charge to fly directly up at them and attack next round. If you want to kill something sudden leap next to them and focused attack power attack them for (weapon damage+1.5Str+Power attackX2+sneak attack+craven)X2 damage (that's a lot)

The goal is to be very fast, very hard to stop, and very deadly at close range. Make it hard to kill you without getting in your face. Place yourself next to the weakest foe who would like to hang back (preferably a wizard or spellcaster) and kill them.

Mix to taste with a ubercharger who can kill melee brutes and a spellcaster of your own, as you can laugh as he throws Aoe over you to hit everything trying to stop you. A good buffer will aid your reckless combat style.

[Worira]

Lets see.

Rogue-2/monk-2/swordsage 5

Build feats and key abilities
Rogue 1 -Blind Fighting
Rogue 2 -Evasion - skip monk if the build starts as ECL 11 as swordsage gets evasion within the starting build without monk, otherwise I like to have evasion built into character creation. (replace this with ray reflection)
Monk 1 -Unarmed strike prof, Focused attack replaces Flurry.
Monk 2 -Ray reflection
Swordsage 1-
Swordsage 2-Now you have +3 bab, and you have 3 feats saved by delaying them to later levels (or retrain them at this point in character creation)
Take - Pierce Magical concelment, Mage slayer, and Pierce magical protection.
If you are useing fractional Bab, then you hit this point earlier, so take advantage of that and take as many of these feats as early as posible. Doesn't really matter if you start at 9th level though.
Swordsage 3-after this point take whatever you wish. Good choices are craven, power attack (though you don't have full bab, it's still good as wizards don't have much non magic armor)
Swordsage 4-
Swordsage 5-



That's... not a thing you can do. There's no such thing as saving up feats, and you don't get to ignore prerequisites when retraining.

[Fouredged Sword]

hrmm. The DM for my IRL games has always stated that you could delay a feat, though I never looked it up to see otherwise. I will be difucult to squeze all of the feats in then...

You can at least get Mage Slayer and pierce magical conclment in, at 6th and 9th respectively. Pierce magical protection may have to wait untill 12th level, though that is a long time to wait.

That would free up feats for elsewhere. Pierce magical concelment is the big gun here as concelment is a wizards first defence.

The core of the build, the teleporting hard to magic striker, is still in there.

Anywho. I have never gotten to play this build, so if you do go this rout tell me how it works.

[Godskook]

Yeah, at the very least it should include all of the Tiger Claw weapons. I was really bummed when I noticed it doesn't. :smallannoyed:

It includes most of the TWF weapons, including everything out of TigerClaw(minus greataxe) and the two most popular ShadowHand weapons(dagger and unarmed strike)


Wish Bloodclaw Master's Superior Two Weapon Fighting included more weapon types.

Actually, if you choose to read the list as a 'sampling' rather than a strict list, you can argue that the ability works with greataxes, but most people I've talked to about dual-wielding 2-handers say that it just isn't worth the effort. Especially in this case, since an unarmed strike is, near as I can tell about size increases, a full size more powerful than the greataxe at level 20, making it the superior choice on a swordsage.

[Greenish]

It includes most of the TWF weapons, including everything out of TigerClaw(minus greataxe) and the two most popular ShadowHand weapons(dagger and unarmed strike).Yeah, I know. I was bummed because I had a greataxe & unarmed strike build in planning.

And unarmed strike is a Tiger Claw weapon, too.