Level ajustment questions.

[atsumouri]

How does this make sense am i missing something or were they smoking crack. savage species page 216.
Anthropomorphic ape:
size:med la:0 +2 str +6 dex +4 wis natural armor:3 speed 30

Anthropomorphic cat:
Size:small la:1 hd 1d8 -4str +2dex +2wis natural armor:0 speed 30



any idea what they were thinking 2 str 6 dex 4 wis and no ajustment
but -4 str 2 dex and 2 wis is a +1?

[Dylaer]

Anthropomorphic Ape has Racial HD, which add to ECL just like LA does. Anthropomorphic Cat has no Racial HD, so instead uses 1 LA.

[atsumouri]

then why does http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19546874/Master_Player_Race_List_Version_2.0?pg=1
the "master race list" show anthro lizards as la 0 they have 1d8 racial hd as well as cat?

[Cog]

The anthropomorphics are notoriously bad in other respects, even if that particular example isn't one.

A single HD gets overwritten by the first class level, so it doesn't count. Notice that ape isn't on the list you linked, for that reason.

[atsumouri]

also the book says small anthro's loose their racial hd when taking class levels. thus cat is small so = no racial hd so should be no la right?

[Cog]

also the book says small anthro's loose their racial hd when taking class levels. thus cat is small so = no racial hd so should be no la right?
When they say no HD, that means no HD. It means absolutely nothing about LA.

[Hirax]

then why does http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19546874/Master_Player_Race_List_Version_2.0?pg=1
the "master race list" show anthro lizards as la 0 they have 1d8 racial hd as well as cat?

ANything with 1RHD loses its only RHD as soon as it takes a class level. It's in the MM/SRD somewhere

[atsumouri]

ya i noticed it wasnt on the list but im trying to figure out why the book has its opness listed as la 0 while cat is la1 and it seems fairly balanced to be la0 it balances out from what i see -4 str small +2dex +2wis 2+2=4-4=0 same total as say elf +2 dex -2 con +2=2-2=0

[Dylaer]

Racial HD and LA are seperate. For example, a creature with 5HD, LA+3 and 2 levels of wizard comes to ECL 10. Any creature with 1 Racial HD loses that in favour of their class at first level. LA can only be bought off using the LA buyoff rules in Unearthed Arcana.

[atsumouri]

then whats so op about the anthro cat that makes it la 1?

[Dylaer]

It's not the cat, it's the sourcebook. Savage Species as a whole is a tad dodgy.

[Hirax]

Savage Species is notorious for questionable to insane balance issues, with some things being underpowered and others overpowered.

[atsumouri]

ill agree to that lol

[Veyr]

A single HD gets overwritten by the first class level, so it doesn't count.
ANything with 1RHD loses its only RHD as soon as it takes a class level. It's in the MM/SRD somewhere
Any creature with 1 Racial HD loses that in favour of their class at first level.
For reference (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monstersAsRaces.htm#humanoidsAndClassLevels):

Humanoids and Class Levels
Creatures with 1 or less HD replace their monster levels with their character levels. The monster loses the attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, skills, and feats granted by its 1 monster HD and gains the attack bonus, save bonuses, skills, feats, and other class abilities of a 1st-level character of the appropriate class.

Characters with more than 1 Hit Die because of their race do not get a feat for their first class level as members of the common races do, and they do not multiply the skill points for their first class level by four. Instead, they have already received a feat for their first Hit Die because of race, and they have already multiplied their racial skill points for their first Hit Die by four.
Some argue that you don't lose the 1 RHD if your type isn't (Monstrous) Humanoid, based on the header, but the rules don't actually say that anywhere.

[Cog]

Reasons the cat may have gotten that LA:

Three natural attacks
Free Weapon Finesse
Decent Rogue skill bonuses

[atsumouri]

For reference (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monstersAsRaces.htm#humanoidsAndClassLevels):

Some argue that you don't lose the 1 RHD if your type isn't (Monstrous) Humanoid, based on the header, but the rules don't actually say that anywhere.

well in the book savage secies it says small anthro animals loose their racial hd when they take a class level and all anthro's are monstrous humanoid since cat is small does that mean when you play an anthro cat rogue you are level 1 with 1 level in rogue and 1d6 hp?

[atsumouri]

Reasons the cat may have gotten that LA:

Three natural attacks
Free Weapon Finesse
Decent Rogue skill bonuses


that makes a little more sense i guess. 3 natural attacks could be a bit overpowerd at level 1.

[atsumouri]

well in the book savage secies it says small anthro animals loose their racial hd when they take a class level and all anthro's are monstrous humanoid since cat is small does that mean when you play an anthro cat rogue you are level 1 with 1 level in rogue and 1d6 hp?


is this correct or is their a special rule for that?

[Cog]

A level 1 anthrocat Rogue would have 6+Con hit points, the usual first-level Rogue abilities (including 1d6 Sneak Attack), and would be considered as "strong" as a 2nd-level character for purposes of experience points and expected wealth.

[Veyr]

well in the book savage secies it says small anthro animals loose their racial hd when they take a class level and all anthro's are monstrous humanoid since cat is small does that mean when you play an anthro cat rogue you are level 1 with 1 level in rogue and 1d6 hp?
An Anthro-cat 1 (that is, no class levels) has 1d8 HD, +1 BAB, +0 base Fort, +2 base Reflex, and +2 base Will, and 8+4*Int skill points with no class skills (unless there are some specified in its entry), and no special features, all thanks to it's one Racial HD.

An Anthro-cat Rogue 1 replaces its RHD with Rogue HD, instead gaining 1d6 HD, +0 BAB, +0 base Fort, +2 base Reflex, +0 base Will, 32+4*Int skill points with a lot of class skills, and Sneak Attack +1d6 and Trapfinding.

In either case, it also has Darkvision 60 ft., proficiency with all simple weapons, and needs to eat, drink, and breathe, all thanks to its Monstrous Humanoid type. It also has any further racial features mentioned in its entry.

In both cases, its ECL (which determines how much XP it requires to reach the next level, how much XP it gains for encounters of a given CR, and usually the ECL of any other members of the party), is 1 + LA, since it either has 1 RHD, or 1 class level. It does not have both (which would be a 2 + LA ECL), since the 1 RHD is replaced. Any race with 2 or more RHD would have to gain class levels on top of those RHD, so that ECL becomes RHD + class level + LA.