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Kaww
2011-05-23, 04:02 AM
My friend wants to run Dark heresy for his next game. Could you please give me some basic information on the setting/game mechanics/how to build a party face?

Thank you, I really appreciate it!

:smallsmile:

Destro_Yersul
2011-05-23, 04:11 AM
Game mechanics are easy. For tests, you roll 1d100 and try to get under your characteristic score. For example, if you were making a strength test, and your Strength was 35, you would need to roll 35 or less to pass. Sometimes, there are modifiers to this, but that's the basic mechanic that does nearly everything.

For a Face character, you'd want high Fellowship. Hive Worlders work well for this, and the Scum, Cleric and Arbitrator career paths are the most talky. Try to take Interaction skills and talents.

The setting... I could go on for days about the setting. The short version is that thousands of years ago, the Emperor of Mankind united humanity. He was betrayed by his most belovedson, and the resulting war tore the Imperium apart. Now he sits on the Golden Throne, only barely alive, and worshipped as a god by pretty much everyone. Not venerating the Emperor is Heresy. Worshipping Chaos is Heresy. Talking to aliens is also Heresy. Heresy gets shot, burned and stabbed and, as a member of the Holy Inquisition, it's your job to do the shooting, burning and stabbing.

Eldan
2011-05-23, 04:28 AM
I'll go into the setting (still reading the rules myself):

Humanity has colonized the galaxy over the past 40'000 years. Ten thousand years ago, the Emperor (humanity's most ancient and powerful psychic) conquered all human worlds and united them into the Imperium, a single hierarchy of one million worlds. He was betrayed by his genetically engineered super-son and almost killed. Now he is only barely alive thanks to the Golden Throne, for a given value of "alive" (he's mostly bones, now).

Parallel to the material world is the warp. It is, basically, another dimension, where humanity's emotions take on the form of powerful daemons. These daemons, collectively called Chaos, try to corrupt mortals away from the Emperor and into worshipping them and their four gods.

In the game, you play a member of the Inquisition. It is your job to find heretics, traitors, mutants and covert aliens and, in most cases, kill them. Sounds straightforward, but probably isn't, since corruption runs deep in the Imperium and, in a million worlds, supply chains are long and convoluted, so that a world can easily be lost for a century or two until someone higher up remembers it. So local governors can wield large power over entire star systems, and they might not like noisy inquisitors snooping around in their business.

Expect aliens masquerading as humans, human cultists of evil gods, mutants in the sewers and lots of people trying to kill you or accuse you of heresy.

hamishspence
2011-05-23, 04:44 AM
Talking to aliens is also Heresy. Heresy gets shot, burned and stabbed and, as a member of the Holy Inquisition, it's your job to do the shooting, burning and stabbing.

While this is true for the average Imperial citizen, it's less true high up the scale- Rogue Traders are allowed by Imperial law to trade and negotiate with aliens. And it's not that uncommon for the more radical-leaning inquisitor (and even some Puritan ones) to have to interact with aliens without violence.

Destro_Yersul
2011-05-23, 04:47 AM
While this is true for the average Imperial citizen, it's less true high up the scale- Rogue Traders are allowed by Imperial law to trade and negotiate with aliens. And it's not that uncommon for the more radical-leaning inquisitor (and even some Puritan ones) to have to interact with aliens without violence.

Certainly true. In most cases in game, however, people who deal with aliens need to get shot. But hey, maybe you'll find some nice aliens to talk to! Or maybe you won't. The universe does not love humans.

Eldan
2011-05-23, 05:38 AM
There are technically imperial diplomats to the Eldar mentioned in the fluff. The Tau too, I think.

Destro_Yersul
2011-05-23, 06:29 AM
yeah, those ones are at least sometimes cooperative. The Imperial Diplomat to the Tyranids never returned, and the one to the Orks was replaced on the return trip by a note reading "'Umies tastes gud. Send more, ya gitz." :smalltongue:

hamishspence
2011-05-23, 06:56 AM
While Ork planets are probably impossible to establish treaties with, individual Orks can be willing to cooperate with humans.

In the Rogue Trader book Into The Storm, there are rules for playing an Ork (or a Kroot) as part of a Rogue Trader's party.

Eldan
2011-05-23, 06:56 AM
Yup. There's also several smaller alien species basically living as second class citizens in the Empire, IIRC.

But anyway. Those that you meet while on a mission, you can generally shoot. And even if they weren't technically aggressive, few would actually contradict an inquisitor openly, if he just yells "HERESY!" loud enough :smalltongue:

Kaww
2011-05-23, 06:57 AM
Is there a rule about playing an Eldar?

hamishspence
2011-05-23, 06:59 AM
But anyway. Those that you meet while on a mission, you can generally shoot. And even if they weren't technically aggressive, few would actually contradict an inquisitor openly, if he just yells "HERESY!" loud enough :smalltongue:

True- Monodominant inquisitors in particular are likely to be prone to this.

I wonder how common crossover Dark Heresy/Rogue Trader games are? Perhaps trying to capture the flavour of the old Inquisitor game, where an Inquisitor's party could include rogue traders and aliens?


Is there a rule about playing an Eldar?

Not at the moment- but there are stats for NPC Eldar- it might be possible to homebrew up a class progression.

profitofrage
2011-05-23, 07:10 AM
Is there a rule about playing an Eldar?

Not at this time, Indeed with Dark heresy there are only rules for playing various classes of humans. You need Rogue Trader before you can get into the Kroot or Ork races and those are purely from a mercenary standpoint.

The setting would make it extremly difficult to play eldar e.t.c due to there nature. Indeed the only way i could see making an Eldar player could work is if there a Rogue or outcast.

Eldan
2011-05-23, 07:18 AM
Well, there's Rangers, Exodites and Pirates. All of which I could see at least remotely working in a Rogue Trader party.

The Glyphstone
2011-05-23, 10:08 AM
I'll be merciful, and quote instead of linking to The Site That Shall Not Be Named:


Along with its sci-fi setting, what makes 40K unique is its extreme darkness. Set thirty-eight thousand years in the future, the game's setting is a galaxy full of horrors that make the worst imaginings of any author or artist you can think of look like a nursery rhyme, and that's not counting the actual Hell that it includes. The basic premise of 40K, insofar as it can be summed up, is that of an eternal, impossibly vast conflict between a number of absurdly powerful genocidal, xenocidal, and (in one case) omnicidal factions, with every single weapon, ideology and creative piece of nastiness imaginable turned Up to Eleven.

The central faction, the Imperium of Man, once held immeasurable power, but is now a fascistic, theocratic Dystopia whose messiah has been locked up on life support for the past ten millennia, laid low by his most beloved son. An incomprehensibly vast Church Militant commits horrible atrocities in his name on an almost-daily basis. Millions of capricious, fanatical, genetically engineered Super Soldier Knights Templar and equally fanatical, pyromaniac battle nuns serve as the Imperium's special forces, while its trillions-strong regular army takes disregard for human life to new and interesting extremes. A futuristic Inquisition ruthlessly hunts down anyone with even the slightest taint of the heretic, the mutant, or the alien. The Warp, the Faster Than Light Travel the Imperium must rely on, carries with it a good chance of being raped by daemons, and the Astronomican, the navigation aid used to negotiate the Warp, is powered by the God Emperor's soul and has the souls of thousands of psychic humans sacrificed to it every day, dying by inches to feed the machine.

The problem is, as bad as the Imperium is, it's not quite as bad as many of the other factions; dying when facing them is about the best fate you can hope for. The ancient and mysterious manipulator race contrives wars that see billions dead so that small handfuls of their own may survive, while their depraved cousins must spend their lives perpetuating mass slaughter and Cold-Blooded Torture to stave off their own destruction. Vast Bug Swarms are trying to eat every organic thing in the galaxy as part of their natural life cycles. An entire civilization of undying Omnicidal Maniacs carry out their star-god masters' desire to exterminate all living creatures, down to the last bacterium. A genetically-engineered warrior species infests every corner of the galaxy and is cheerfully trying to kill everything else (including each other, if nothing better presents itself) because it's literally hard-wired into their genetic code to do so...and because it's fun. The closest thing to the "good guys" you can find in this setting is a tiny alien empire sandwiched between all the other factions, and they may or may not have a thing for forcing new subjects into their empire through orbital bombardment, concentration camps, and possible mind control by a few benevolent elites...but at least they'll offer you admittance into their club before doing any of that stuff. Many of these factions have a common foe in the forces of Chaos, which infests the Warp, exists to corrupt all it touches, and is best known for two light-years-wide holes in reality through which countless daemons and corrupted daemon-powered super-soldiers periodically attempt to destroy the universe.

profitofrage
2011-05-23, 10:23 AM
I love 40k fluff :P I really truly do....except maybe what they did to the Daemonhunters lately...ws 4 is so far off the mark.

hamishspence
2011-05-23, 10:28 AM
Chaos Veterans 10,000 years old, and very experienced, also have WS4 though.

profitofrage
2011-05-23, 10:41 AM
Chaos Veterans 10,000 years old, and very experienced, also have WS4 though.

Except they spent a large amount of said time in the "time has no meaning" warp effects of the Eye of Terror. For all we know they could have gone in and come out :P not a second spent.

Daemonhunters were always supposed to be that "tier above" space marines. That was there niche, there style.

It was like...a Grey Knight was to an SM what an SM was to a mortal man.
And a Custodian was to a grey knight what a Grey Knight was to an SM e.t.c

hamishspence
2011-05-23, 10:46 AM
In Tales of Heresy (Horus Heresy short story collection) the short story Blood Games, by Dan Abnett, has Custodians as pretty comparable to marines- a little larger, but not by much, and roughly equal in fighting ability.

profitofrage
2011-05-23, 11:15 AM
In Tales of Heresy (Horus Heresy short story collection) the short story Blood Games, by Dan Abnett, has Custodians as pretty comparable to marines- a little larger, but not by much, and roughly equal in fighting ability.

Yea I tend to cling to the old ideals of them, The Original legions the Emperor forged to take over Terra, then refined for creation of the Primachs...then refined again for the purposes of mass production for the space marines.
The horus Heresy Novels I think it was described Custodians decapitating marines left and right with little to no effort...I dont see that as "comparable in skill"

Destro_Yersul
2011-05-23, 11:46 AM
Warning! THe following Applies to the Miniature Wargame and Not Dark Heresy:

It's an abstraction. WS 4 is actually really good for a troops choice, given that the only ones with higher WS are usually characters and heroes. Genestealers have WS4, and Genestealers will happily rip terminators into tiny bits. If the Bio-engineered four-armed killing machine gets WS4, the supersoldier ought not to have much better.

That argument aside, WS4 has nothing to do with the fluff.

profitofrage
2011-05-23, 10:04 PM
The stats DO mirror fluff to an extent. an extra WS point is the seperation between "super human" and "mortal" Its the tiers i was taking about.
Grey Knights used to have ws 5. This meant that battling mortals was trivial and space marines was easy. The Idea that your average captian e.t.c was as experienced and strong as there average infantry. This mirrored there awesome fluff.
Likewise if a custodian were to appear in game they would have a WS of 6 as there the next tier up. Show casing there unbelieveable abilities and reinforcing WHY there the emperor's guardians.

In the end it doesnt matter, the codex I was looking forward to has already been mostly ruined in my eyes.

hamishspence
2011-05-24, 05:03 AM
way back in 2nd ed Space Wolves had a higher WS than comparable Marines.

So it's not a new thing- the decreasing of stats.

I think Str 5 and Toughess 5 were common for human commanders- like Adeptus Arbites Judges. Now, they're not.

In the current era, among marines, WS5 tends to be reserved for the HQs, whereas the veterans have WS4. Even Marneus Calgar is only WS5.

Given that GK Grand Masters are WS6, one could say that they still have an element of "better fighters than most chapters".

Going back to Dark Heresy- I'm wondering how much of the new GK fluff will be mentioned in Daemon Hunter, which comes out in August.

profitofrage
2011-05-24, 09:42 AM
Yea but in the end they just dont have that same feel anymore. As for DH...I really hope it is much better

hamishspence
2011-05-24, 09:54 AM
I suspect it will include some of the Codex GK material, just as Deathwatch and Deathwatch: Rites of Battle included material from Codex Space Marines and Codex Blood Angels.

Various nemesis weapons, grenades, new guns, and so forth.

The description here:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=2210

does seem to imply that things like Dreadknights will appear.

comicshorse
2011-05-24, 10:26 AM
In Tales of Heresy (Horus Heresy short story collection) the short story Blood Games, by Dan Abnett, has Custodians as pretty comparable to marines- a little larger, but not by much, and roughly equal in fighting ability.

I remember in that story the leader of the Custodians feeling he and three other Custodians could take on three Space Marines and their Primarch !
Similairly in 'First Heretic' it describes a battle between a bunch of Word Bearers and some Custodians. The Word Bearers outnumber the Custodians two or three to one and although they win only one of them survives.
This would seem to give a fairly consistent gauging of the strength of the Custodians in that they are appreciably better than a Space Marine but not enough for them to be ablre to just wade through them

hamishspence
2011-05-24, 10:39 AM
Yes- maybe give them WS5 and 2 wounds. More for leaders though.

GK paladins in the new codex have 2 wounds. I can't remember offhand if they have higher WS as well.

Kaww
2011-05-24, 02:08 PM
Several new questions:

1. How tough is it to (role)play a psyker?
2. How fast do characters deteriorate (sanity, mutation, corruption...)?
3. Should a psyker be hesitant about his power usage or should he use his gift/curse as much as he can?
4. Is it better to be a telepath or a biomancer?
5. Should a psyker pick as many disciplines as he can or just stick to one or two?
6. Is it a bad decision to first max your WP and then start taking skills and talents?

The Glyphstone
2011-05-24, 03:36 PM
The answers to all these questions depend heavily on if you and/or your GM care a whit about the setting, or are simply interested in optimizing.

Kaww
2011-05-24, 04:02 PM
We play to have a good time. The GM is not an optimizer in D&D, so my guess is that this game will not be different. He cares about the setting very much, as does one other player. I am a medium optimizer (I try to stay alive/keep the party alive so we could play the whole story- I usually play a buffer/face). I want my character to be "realistic", since I do play the role.

The thing is, after reading some bits and peaces of DHCRB I found out that it appears that surviving is rather difficult. Not just the encounters, but your mind seems to be out to get you. That might just be my first impression...

profitofrage
2011-05-24, 09:28 PM
Ok
1) dont worry about being Tough enough to survive. DH is about playing smart, if you do your best not to get into deadly situations or abushes youll be ok. You have fatepoints so you wont get instagibbed untill the 2nd or 3rd times that happens and if the DM WANTS you alive till the end he will award you replacement fatepoints.
Dh isnt about getting to the end of the campaign at max level and talking about how sweet the group is. Its about losing your leg at the hip when you fight that ork...your friends having dragged you back to a field medic.
Its about running away from those escaped bio constructs with that poor quality attached limb next session and your guardsmen friend Jim losing his hand to save you.
Its about finished the campaign with that augmented leg now best qaulity. Half your face augmetic because of a plasma gun overcharge. Your psyker placed in a moving vat to help sustain his corrupt body.
The Adept who was hot last lesson because he saved the party by unleashing a torrent of sorcery.

2) it will take many a session to accumulate debilitating levels of insanity But whats more damaging is curruption. Having nervous ticks...or thinking something out to get you is playable...sprouting a mutation can be character ending for the puritan party.

3) Psykers get "peer (the insane)" at level 2
most if not all are jibbering messes...minds who are cursed with the gift to see, feel and hear consciousness above that of a mortal man. They are exposed to the warp and as such must contend with the horrors that wish to subdue and consume him. Worst of all each one had to go through the ordeal of Terra...

Picture this...your taken from your home by the equivilent of black ops soldiers...only they probably killed everyone you knew.
You then spent years in stasis..or worse in confinement, drugged out of your mind the only thing you knew was the horible screaming of everyone else on board.

You finally get to the birthplace of mankind...a place your told your GOD lives. Your then horded by the masses through incredibly dense spires and one by one your tested...tortured. They break you and rebuild you..over and over again, your sense of self torn usunder as other more powerful psykers scour your mind for any sort of sin or taint...punishing you for any ounce they find.
Your body isnt yours anymore..they do with it whatever they like..be it branding you, cutting out your tongue or burning tattoos onto your skin.
Finally after years or even decades of this your released...told that it was all for a purpose...and you believe them. why? because they forced you to...after years of processing its all you know...only the strongest of will hold on to that hatred...and often its these individuals who die the soonest after release.
Thats the trauma of a sanctioned psyker...play it well ;P