Two choices (Pathfinder)

[Ceaon]

So, a while back I made a thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196785) asking for evaluation of a single-classed fighter focusing on archery in Pathfinder. He's a third level fighter with str 14/dex 18/con 10/int 12/wis 10/cha 12. Currently, he has the Weapon Focus, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot and Deadly Aim feats and he's performing great (he's considered the most poweful of the party in combat at the moment, to establish an optimization baseline).

Now, I have recently been looking at the Pathfinder Dragon Disciple. Because of some roleplaying with the party sorcerer, I'd like to pick up some magic and then maybe work my way into that prestige class. But, it is a substantially different build than what I had in mind first.

I can choose between these two 'routes' for my character to take:

1. Keep leveling in fighter, ignoring stuff like prestige classes, melee, spells, etc., while focusing purely on ranged combat through lots and lots of feats and the fighter's Weapon Training to attack and damage. This is the build I had in mind.
I have a feeling this is the mechanically sounder of the two options.

2. Go fighter 4/sorcerer 1/Dragon Disciple 10/fighter X and use my increased strength and draconic abilities to be able to both wade into melee with feats like Power Attack, fire arrows from range, or use spells to buff myself and party members.
I like this version more thematically, because it also allows me to start roleplaying the 'learning to express my inner magic abilities' spiel with the party sorcerer. I am afraid that it'll make my character considerably less powerful though.

If I take option 2, attack and damage will suffer quite badly, especially on the ranged attack side, since this options lacks Weapon Training and other (feat) bonuses. The character also can't wear armor anymore due to arcane spell failure, at least not until he takes the Arcane Armor Training and Mastery feats (which can't be taken until level 9 and 13, and I prefer to take Manyshot at level 9). However, I will have some beter skills (perception!), some fun buffs spells (Gravity Bow, eventually Beast Form II for pounce!), more hit points and better saves.

Anyway, wall of text. Which of these two options would you suggest? Should I ignore combat ability and go for the roleplaying path? Has anyone ever played a DD in Pathfinder?

[jmelesky]

I can continue to give you mechanical reasons to stick with the Fighter (the Critical feats in particular come in handy), but they're mechanical reasons, which (outside of theoretical board discussions) should usually take a back seat to role-play reasons.

So i'd encourage you to go the DD route. I haven't played one in PF, but it will certainly give you the flexibility of limited casting, and reflect your character's personality more.

That said, the one other consideration i'd throw in would be your role in the party. Since you're an archer, it's unlikely you're the primary melee combatant, but if you are, going DD will throw a monkey wrench into the party mojo. On the other hand, if you're already dominating combat, going DD will give other PCs a couple levels to catch up with your performance.

Good luck! It's a good problem to have.

[subject42]

Another possibility is to take a level of bard, rather than sorcerer. You'll still get bloodline abilities due to the wording of the DD, you'll some new weapon proficiencies (eg: whip), and a bundle of skill points.

The useful thing for you, though, would be that a bard can cast in light armor, and has some nifty long-duration combat buffs that might fit your fluff better than sorcerer.

[Ceaon]

Interesting! Had not even considered that possibility on the grounds of bard spells being less worthwhile in comparison to the wizard/sorcerer list. Maybe I should take a look at the bard spell possibilities then...

Edit: yeah, I don't see bard casting being all that hot for a 4th level fighter, especially with a delayed progress. Still, thanks for the suggestion.

[Joshinthemosh]

If your idea is to buff yourself and then melee so I second the idea of the Bard dip. If you want to do some blasting I say go Sorcerer. Also you at the moment can only second level spells. I assume you're going to drop your 4th level ability point into Cha? Also look at Celestial Armor either way you go.

Edit-Swordsaged

[subject42]

Edit: yeah, I don't see bard casting being all that hot for a 4th level fighter, especially with a delayed progress. Still, thanks for the suggestion.

Don't forget that while bards only get 6th level spells, it's not too uncommon for them to get spells at a lower level than sorcerers.

I would look at it for things that grant you movement or restrict enemy movement. A quick look at the SRD offers up these ideas. Note that a lot of these work for sorcerer as well.

Feather Step (http://www.pathfindersrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/feather-step)

Grease (http://www.pathfindersrd.com/magic/all-spells/g/grease)

Expeditious Retreat (http://www.pathfindersrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/expeditious-retreat)

Feather Fall (http://www.pathfindersrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/feather-fall)

Touch of Gracelessness (http://www.pathfindersrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/touch-of-gracelessness) <----- Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaang.

[McSmack]

If your feeling like mixing up magic and archery I'd take a hard look at Pathfinder's Arcane Archer. They are significantly more powerful than they were in 3.5 (which is not saying a lot.) Most DM's I know are willing to waive the elf/half-elf requirement.

Another thing you might look into is the half-dragon template from the Beastiary I, for a +2 CR template you get most of the good stuff from dragon disciple sans spellcasting and HD. Talk to your GM and you might be able to swing something.

All told your build as it stands seems pretty powerful. Going DD will add versitility at the cost of damage potential (at least for a few levels). Given your status as top damage dealer, this is probably worth the trade off.

[Gnaeus]

If your feeling like mixing up magic and archery I'd take a hard look at Pathfinder's Arcane Archer. They are significantly more powerful than they were in 3.5 (which is not saying a lot.) Most DM's I know are willing to waive the elf/half-elf requirement.


When I was statting up AA vs. DD builds for a high-op game, I found DD to be very competitive damage wise, with quite a bit more versatility. Assuming that you already have a magic bow, and that Distance doesn't shift things too much, you are talking about +2 damage vs +1d6 damage (which is energy, and may be resisted) for each arrow.

@ OP, I would look at taking sorcerer spells for the first several levels that have no S components, so no ASF, or buffs.

Level 1: True strike (no ASF)
Shield or Gravity Bow (Cast before you open a door. if you fail, cast again).
Level 2: Blindness, Blur (No ASF)
False Life, Resist Energy, Darkvision, Protection from Arrows (All last so long that you can cast them, then put your armor on)
Level 3 has some good ones also, but by the time you are casting level 3 spells, AC really isn't an issue, and you probably have mithril chain (or mage armor lasting all day) anyway.

[subject42]

When I was statting up AA vs. DD builds for a high-op game, I found DD to be very competitive damage wise, with quite a bit more versatility. Assuming that you already have a magic bow, and that Distance doesn't shift things too much, you are talking about +2 damage vs +1d6 damage (which is energy, and may be resisted) for each arrow.


Alternately, you could always take small dips of both.