God Hater/Ur-Priest Warrior

[Tibbaerrohwen]

I'm working on a Fighter/Warblade character that is of the opinion that he is either greater than the Gods or is a God. Alignment is flexible, but prefer True Neutral.
I loved the fluff on Ur-Priest, but the character isn't a spellcaster and I don't intend of really changing that. Also, wisdom and charisma are both lower scores for the character (10 & 6 respectfully).
However, I would like a PrC with similar fluff. I would prefer if it was warrior-based and didn't require too many feats or a high wisdom or charisma to be effective.
Does anyone know any PrC's like this? All sources are welcome (books & homebrew).

Thanks.

[Malimar]

The only other one I know of is the Defiant, from Planar Handbook. Fluff is "hates gods", crunch is ten variations on "clerics can't touch you". Has a couple abilities that key off charisma, so you won't get the 2nd level ability and you'll only be able to use the 4th level free counterspell 1/day.

I don't know how hard the class is to optimize; probably pretty hard.

[Lord.Sorasen]

On the Defiant: The fluff seems to fit perfectly, but more or less all you gain is resistance to divine spells. Resistance you can't turn off.

What's going to be your strategy in battle? What sorts of things are you planning to do with your build?

[Tibbaerrohwen]

The only other one I know of is the Defiant, from Planar Handbook. Fluff is "hates gods", crunch is ten variations on "clerics can't touch you". Has a couple abilities that key off charisma, so you won't get the 2nd level ability and you'll only be able to use the 4th level free counterspell 1/day.

I don't know how hard the class is to optimize; probably pretty hard.


On the Defiant: The fluff seems to fit perfectly, but more or less all you gain is resistance to divine spells. Resistance you can't turn off.

What's going to be your strategy in battle? What sorts of things are you planning to do with your build?


I may need to consider switching from Warblade to Crusader and switch the Charisma scores with something else.
Currently my plan for combat is wielding a Large-sized Heavy Fullblade and charging/bull-rushing.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I may need to consider switching from Warblade to Crusader and switch the Charisma scores with something else.
Currently my plan for combat is wielding a Large-sized Heavy Fullblade and charging/bull-rushing.

Obviously not an optimizer. Monkey grip and EWP, two feats for +2 or +3 damage and a -2 on attack.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

Obviously not an optimizer. Monkey grip and EWP, two feats for +2 or +3 damage and a -2 on attack.

True enough, it's not an optimized build. It would be cool if he could be a God-killer of sorts, but the huge-freaking sword is a must for the personality of the character.
If you have idea for an improved melee/charger build that would be God-killer material, I'm all ears and would be very appreciative.

Stats are currently

Str: 15 Con: 14 Dex: 14
Int: 14 Wis: 10 Cha: 6


This is including racial bonuses/penalties for race: Steam Para-Genasi which cannot be changed.

[Runestar]

If you can handle the rp requirements, worship an elder evil and get bonus vile feats. :smallbiggrin:

[eclipsic]

If you can use Dragon Magazine material, issue #287 had an article titled "Fractious Factions", describing 5 PrCs associated with factions within Sigil, the City of Doors, and one of them (the Taker, I think) was based on the concept of, "the gods suck, I'm better off without them".

[Tibbaerrohwen]

If you can use Dragon Magazine material, issue #287 had an article titled "Fractious Factions", describing 5 PrCs associated with factions within Sigil, the City of Doors, and one of them (the Taker, I think) was based on the concept of, "the gods suck, I'm better off without them".

I looked into it, but this is essentially a 3.0 version of the 3.5 Planar Handbook PrC Fated. Both are good, but require heightened Charisma, which is something my character is supremely lacking.
If you feel I should abandon a stat for Charisma, which would be best suited to be lost, considering my characters role as a primary melee/charger?

[Darth Stabber]

I looked into it, but this is essentially a 3.0 version of the 3.5 Planar Handbook PrC Fated. Both are good, but require heightened Charisma, which is something my character is supremely lacking.
If you feel I should abandon a stat for Charisma, which would be best suited to be lost, considering my characters role as a primary melee/charger?

The problem with magic meleers is that they are all quite MAD, you could just roll with a normal fighter type, and just be misotheist, you don't have to get try for mechanical benefits for every detail about your character. I once played a fighter that HATED gnolls with a fiery passion (and was actively pursuing genocide), and I could have taken a level in ranger to get some sort of mechanical benefit based on that hatred, but since he had no other reason to be a ranger he didn't. As a note, fighters are really bad at genocide, that's a wizard's work.

[FMArthur]

I don't think you need any special class for your character's belief system; you should just focus on being as great a warrior as you can. And your chosen strategy has insanely good support, being one of the best melee styles around.


I may need to consider switching from Warblade to Crusader and switch the Charisma scores with something else.
Currently my plan for combat is wielding a Large-sized Heavy Fullblade and charging/bull-rushing.

Okay, you are absolutely a Goliath Dungeoncrasher Fighter. That ends at 6th level (ECL 7 for Goliaths), so there's plenty of room for other tricks, but this one is a must.

Let's break down why this is particularly awesome and how it fits what you're looking to do perfectly:
Goliath (Races of Stone) as a race are medium-sized, human-looking guys who wield weapons and apply combat bonuses as if Large where beneficial (but not reach). This includes bull-rushing as if Large (+4 bonus compared to Medium). They also have +4 Str and +2 Con, and the ability to make standing jumps as if they were running jumps. They are (a worthy) Level Adjustment +1, so they start one level lower than normal and gain exp and level-up as if one level higher.
Dungeon Crasher Fighter is a much-loved Fighter variant from Dugeonscape that deals absolutely silly amounts of damage to anyone you bull rush into a solid object, and gives some bonuses vs traps and breaking stuff. It replaces your 2nd and 6th level Fighter feats.
Knockback is a feat from Races of Stone designed for Goliaths: it requires Large size or their Powerful Build racial trait, so for players it's pretty much only available to them and Half-Giants. It allows you to make a free bull rush attempt on an opponent any time you strike someone while Power Attacking, doesn't require you to move with the target, and provides a bonus based on your Power Attack (as if you even needed one, being Goliath and having Imp. Bull Rush). Amazing synergy with Dungeon Crasher Fighter, your race and your fighting style.
Shock Trooper (CW): you probably already know about this just for being able to Power Attack out of your AC instead of Attack Bonus, but it also lets you direct your bull rushes at funny angles and trip people for free if you knock them into other people.

Fighter also provides you with a bonus feat at 1st and 4th level, which you will enjoy for getting the various feats you need at a reasonable level without needing flaws: you'll have EWP (heavy fullblade), Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Knockback and Shock Trooper at level 6 (ECL 7).

From there I would probably take at least a level of Warblade for Sudden Leap (Swift action movement up to your jump check result... and hey, take another look at those Goliath racial features!) and a bunch of other goodies - enough that it's certainly worth just staying Warblade for the rest of your career. Barbarian is also strong because the Goliath Barbarian racial substitution levels can make you fully Large when Raging.

Really anything that doesn't have Cleric or Paladin levels fits your character theme just fine - you just need to be really STRONG to match your ego, and you certainly will be. I think a massive ego might reflect more Charisma than what you've alloted though, because the stat reflects your sense of self and your force of personality, not just how pretty you are and how nice you are (Charisma doesn't have anything to do with being nice btw, that's a strange misconception where people think just being grumpy is low-charisma behavior).

[Veyr]

{snip}
+1!

Very, very well said, and a perfect fit for the fluff.

A Goliath Dungeoncrasher 6/something-else {1 or 2}/initiator 1 has an Initiator Level of 5, allowing you to start with 3rd level maneuvers (and stances, if your DM agrees that the line "starts with" refers to a 1st level character, and not simply the first class level).

For the "something else", it's 1 level if LA counts as a "level" for the purpose of Initiator Level, or 2 levels if it does not (or you buy it off, which you should) — I'm not really sure if it does. Good options include... ooh.

How about Goliath Dungeoncrasher 6/Swordsage 1/Ur-Priest 2/Ruby Knight Vindicator X? You're not getting the IL 5 thing mentioned above, which is a shame, but you are getting a lot of stuff here. You'll need to refluff the RKV to be compatible with Ur-Priest, but assuming your DM is OK with Ur-Priest to begin with, that shouldn't be too hard...

[Tibbaerrohwen]

I don't think you need any special class for your character's belief system; you should just focus on being as great a warrior as you can. And your chosen strategy has insanely good support, being one of the best melee styles around.

I agree with this. I think I'll go Frenzied Berserker and just murder everything. My DM and I discussed it, and we figure it can work into the fluff.
Dungeon Crasher is an obvious must, as is Shock Trooper.

Thanks for the input.

[Sir_Chivalry]

+1!

Very, very well said, and a perfect fit for the fluff.

A Goliath Dungeoncrasher 6/something-else {1 or 2}/initiator 1 has an Initiator Level of 5, allowing you to start with 3rd level maneuvers (and stances, if your DM agrees that the line "starts with" refers to a 1st level character, and not simply the first class level).

For the "something else", it's 1 level if LA counts as a "level" for the purpose of Initiator Level, or 2 levels if it does not (or you buy it off, which you should) — I'm not really sure if it does. Good options include... ooh.

How about Goliath Dungeoncrasher 6/Swordsage 1/Ur-Priest 2/Ruby Knight Vindicator X? You're not getting the IL 5 thing mentioned above, which is a shame, but you are getting a lot of stuff here. You'll need to refluff the RKV to be compatible with Ur-Priest, but assuming your DM is OK with Ur-Priest to begin with, that shouldn't be too hard...

As the DM in question, I'd put my support behind a build like this

[Tibbaerrohwen]

+1!

Dungeoncrasher 6/Swordsage 1/Ur-Priest 2/Ruby Knight Vindicator X? You're not getting the IL 5 thing mentioned above, which is a shame, but you are getting a lot of stuff here. You'll need to refluff the RKV to be compatible with Ur-Priest, but assuming your DM is OK with Ur-Priest to begin with, that shouldn't be too hard...

I may need to look into this, seeing as FB has the problem of me accidentally killing my own party.
The rebukes would only be used for RKV and Rebuke buffing feats, because the Cha. Should I take points out of other stats to improve Wis?

[Veyr]

Well, Wis may come up on some of your maneuver DCs (Shadow Hand has a relatively large number of save-allowing maneuvers, but it's still not that many), but you're going to want at least 19 Wis by the time you hit 18th level, because you'll have access to 9th level spells at that point. Pumping Wis past that probably won't be necessary because you'll be using mostly self-buffs with your spells, I'd think.

But remember that Ruby Knight Vindicators get the very good Divine Impetus: burn a Turn/Rebuke Undead use to get another Swift Action. You don't get that until 15th level, though, at which point it's definitely viable to buy a Nightstick and a +Cha item and be good with that.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

Well, Wis may come up on some of your maneuver DCs (Shadow Hand has a relatively large number of save-allowing maneuvers, but it's still not that many), but you're going to want at least 19 Wis by the time you hit 18th level, because you'll have access to 9th level spells at that point. Pumping Wis past that probably won't be necessary because you'll be using mostly self-buffs with your spells, I'd think.

But remember that Ruby Knight Vindicators get the very good Divine Impetus: burn a Turn/Rebuke Undead use to get another Swift Action. You don't get that until 15th level, though, at which point it's definitely viable to buy a Nightstick and a +Cha item and be good with that.

I'm really liking this build. I'm going to need to put aside some time to look into it and work out the logistic, but it sounds superb. One draw back I'll have to work around is the skill requirements for Ur Priest.

[Darth Stabber]

This thread makes me want homebrew an Ur-Paladin.