[PF] Multiple Archetypes

[Luckmann]

This is more of a general question to players and DMs than a question about rule interpretation (although it may be the latter).

Archetypes in Pathfinder. As a rule of thumb, would you allow the stacking of archetypes? Sometimes, archetypes modify or replace different abilities or would be able to work on a base class with little-to-no changes. This opens up the possibility of being a, for example, Paladin with both the Hospitaler and Oathbound archetypes. Another good example would be a Ranger with Urban Ranger and Trapper archetypes.

I only know of one archetype that allows this and that's the Oathbound Paladin archetype that specifically allows you to stack several different oaths as long as they don't conflict.

Or are there actually any clear rules on this? I'm just eying through the PFSRD. If so, please excuse my profound ignorance.

[jmelesky]

Depending on the group, i'd be open (as a GM) to allowing my players to treat Archetypes as, basically, lists of swappable ACFs, and let them mix and match. There's some precedence for that approach with the alternate racial features.

I expect the end result would be a bit like 2e + Skills & Powers.

I also expect that's the direction we'll eventually see PF2ed go, but that's a different discussion.

[grarrrg]

This is more of a general question to players and DMs than a question about rule interpretation (although it may be the latter).
...I only know of one archetype that allows this and that's the Oathbound Paladin archetype that specifically allows you to stack several different oaths as long as they don't conflict.


Quoting straight form the PFsrd entry for Ultimate Magic (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/collaborators/work-area/paizo-products/pathfinder-rpg-line/ultimate-magic/chapter-1-spellcasters/paladin-options) (the paladin page to be exact)

Archetypes are a quick and easy way to specialize characters of a given class, adding fun and flavorful new abilities to already established adventurers. The class archetypes (and corresponding new abilities) listed below are all from Ultimate Magic. Characters may take more than one archetype if they meet the requirements. (empasis mine)
Granted, this IS on the Paladin option page, but it says "of a given class", which means it (should) apply to any class.
So long as you aren't trading away the same feature twice anyway.

Ultimately I would check with your DM though, some might see mutliple ACF's as too much optimizing.

[Telasi]

As long as they don't replace the same ability, I allow multiple archetypes. That's how I always thought it was meant to work.

[Luckmann]

[...]
Archetypes are a quick and easy way to specialize characters of a given class, adding fun and flavorful new abilities to already established adventurers. The class archetypes (and corresponding new abilities) listed below are all from Ultimate Magic. Characters may take more than one archetype if they meet the requirements.[...]

Well what do you know, there it is, black on white. Thanks a lot. And btw, I don't actually have a DM, or I would be arguing with him about class builds until the cows come home instead of sitting here. :smallbiggrin:


Depending on the group, i'd be open (as a GM) to allowing my players to treat Archetypes as, basically, lists of swappable ACFs, and let them mix and match. There's some precedence for that approach with the alternate racial features.

I expect the end result would be a bit like 2e + Skills & Powers.

I also expect that's the direction we'll eventually see PF2ed go, but that's a different discussion.Well we can only hope, because I like the concept. I always wanted something between 3.5 and the Kits of 2nd Ed. It appeals to my sensibilities.

I've been thinking about trying to do something along the lines of Urban Ranger + Guide + Trapper that prestiges over to Horizon Walker for a 'Planar Ranger' kind of thing, but how Favored Communities would work with Favored Terrain would be an argument to be had with a potential DM. Also, both Trapper and Urban Ranger gives Trapfinding - in the case of the Urban Ranger, it replaces Endurence, a prereq. for Horizon Walker.

When I started this thread, I was 100% that Urban Ranger and Guide conflicted, but it turns out it was Infiltrator (Which I initially wanted to work in, but it's bonus replaces Favored Terrain, which isn't just already replaced by Favored Community, but would be entirely unacceptable to replace in a Horizon Walker character). Herp.

[Viktyr Gehrig]

As long as they don't replace the same ability, I allow multiple archetypes. That's how I always thought it was meant to work.

I even allow them to accept conflicting archetypes, but they have to choose which ACF they get. I'm not quite sure how that interacts with the rule that archetypes are all-or-nothing, but I'm on the verge of nixing that rule anyhow.

[Infernalbargain]

I am highly hesitant to allow it because of power creep. I view archetypes as a method of creating new player material without introducing the fundamental power creep of mix and matching. If you disallow mix and matching, then the build space merely grows linearly with new material while the build space grows combinatorically with mix and matching.

[Mojo_Rat]

it shouldn't be allowed it's overpowered and archetypes were not designed to be cherry picked.

otherwise you'll end up with pole arm masters with the two handed fighter strength bonuses but all the other pole arm benefits. they wre not designed for this.

[Luckmann]

it shouldn't be allowed it's overpowered and archetypes were not designed to be cherry picked.

otherwise you'll end up with pole arm masters with the two handed fighter strength bonuses but all the other pole arm benefits. they wre not designed for this.

Actually, if you look up, Pathfinder explicitly allows picking multiple archetypes. Now, if you want to houserule that it's not allowed, that's fine, but what you're saying is flat-out wrong. By design, officially, they are allowed to be picked together.

Now, whether that is balanced or not is another question. And you can argue that it's bad design. But it's still as designed.

[FMArthur]

It's good design IMO, and one of the few areas where Paizo actually interested in the player being able to put together overlapping character concepts. Archetypes in literature are not mutually exclusive, you know, and that shouldn't be a thing you aim to chage.