Schrödinger's cat box...with 3.5 d&d rules

[myancey]

Hey all, I was wondering if people would help me create the Schrödinger's cat box using any 3.5 d&d rules available.

Here's a wikipedia link to the cat box idea.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat

Anyway, I was wanting to see all the original ideas people would have in the way of this.

Thanks.

[ffone]

Cat is Awakened or a Tibbit which can cast Contingency to cast some save or die on itself withv50% chance when box is opened. Or rather, the Contingency goes off if that one quantum particle was in the right state.

Or, there's probably just some trap that will do this. Choose effect so cat has a 50% survival chance.

[Rei_Jin]

You should rename it Schrödinger's Cat-girl Box, if you're trying to bring Quantum Mechanics into D&D.

The original idea is that Quantum mechanics rules suggest that something can exist in two completely seperate states at the same time, until it is observed and the probability field collapses (as I understand it, anyway).

Schrödinger used his cat box proposal to make fun of the Quantum Mechanics scientists, as clearly a cat cannot be simultaneously alive or dead... it is one or the other.

I'm not sure how you could bring it into D&D at all unless you wanted to do something similar to what Rich Burlew did in an early OotS comic.

[Rejakor]

Simultaneously alive and dead?

Get two Dvati.

Turn them into cats.

Put them into a box.

Close the lid, activating the disintegrate trap on the lid (instantly killing one of the Dvati).


Voila.

[Jack_Simth]

Hey all, I was wondering if people would help me create the Schrödinger's cat box using any 3.5 d&d rules available.

Here's a wikipedia link to the cat box idea.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat

Anyway, I was wanting to see all the original ideas people would have in the way of this.

Thanks.

Have the cat use the Complete Warrior rules about PrC requirements (page 16, section subsection titled "Meeting Class Requirements") and take all ten levels of Dragon Disciple.

Does this need further explanation?

[ffone]

Is the joke that at 10th level a DD becomes Dragon type, violating its own prereqs, thus (by CW) losing all those levels...meaning it no longer has the thing was violated them, and thus shouldn't have lost the levels?

[Rei_Jin]

Yes, pretty much. Level 10 Dragon Disciple makes you a half-dragon. One of the Pre-eqs for admission to the prestige class is that you cannot be a half-dragon.

The capstone of the class makes you no longer a valid target to have levels in the prestige class... but once you lose the class features, you can have the class features...

[myancey]

I guess I should be more specific--the goal wasn't attempting to place the cat into this situation so much as to design a box I can put a player character in.

I'd like to create some sort of device that a player can be put in (using AMF, stinking cloud, or anything you can think of), simply to create a Schrodinger's box. Something that people can't see in to. Something that the person can't escape out of.

[Jack_Simth]

Yes, pretty much. Level 10 Dragon Disciple makes you a half-dragon. One of the Pre-eqs for admission to the prestige class is that you cannot be a half-dragon.

The capstone of the class makes you no longer a valid target to have levels in the prestige class... but once you lose the class features, you can have the class features...
Correct. It's normally used to make fun of the Complete Warrior 3.0 -> 3.5 transition error, but it works for here, too.

[Rejakor]

But the cat has to be dead at the end of it.

So maybe it's a black dragon disciple, and the box is filled with acid?

[Techsmart]

You should rename it Schrödinger's Cat-girl Box, if you're trying to bring Quantum Mechanics into D&D.

The original idea is that Quantum mechanics rules suggest that something can exist in two completely seperate states at the same time, until it is observed and the probability field collapses (as I understand it, anyway).

Schrödinger used his cat box proposal to make fun of the Quantum Mechanics scientists, as clearly a cat cannot be simultaneously alive or dead... it is one or the other.

I'm not sure how you could bring it into D&D at all unless you wanted to do something similar to what Rich Burlew did in an early OotS comic.

A more appropriate approach to Schrödinger's cat is that the act of observing on the quantum level is a form of interaction - by observing, you are directly interacting and changing the object, no matter how hard you try not to. When you separate the act of observing in such a way as to not directly interfere, you can only guess where something is. In essence, it is in two places at the same time. Putting it into the cat example, the radioactive material that would set off the geiger counter is both at the geiger counter, and not, therefore causing the contraption to both trigger and not trigger, and both kill the cat and not kill the cat.

If I am wrong, correct me, it has been 3 years since I really did much with quantum mechanics.

I think trying to do this is more effective at killing all the cat-girls in the universe than trying to get the cat both alive AND dead, unless you consider undead/vampire to be alive and dead (vampire cats.... campaign ideas...)

[DragonOfUndeath]

So that's how Undead first came to be.
A 10th level Black Dragon Disciple got caught in a sealed box that filled with Acid.

Who knew?

[NNescio]

Customary reference:

http://ompldr.org/vOHJwaA/comic_lotr73a.jpghttp://ompldr.org/vOHJwZw/comic_lotr73b.jpg

Also, this. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92410)

[Ozymandias]

Time Stop, Prismatic spray on the cat (or rather on the area on which the cat is standing), and you're set. It is affected by all the possible combinations of rays simultaneously (or whatever, I have only a vague conceptual knowledge of quantum mechanics). Close your eyes before the Time Stop ends so it isn't observed.

You don't need to use actual isotopic decay randomness because the effects of some spells (Prismatic Spray was just chosen, haha, at random, and because it's not targeted) are explicitly random (they are approximated using dice, but the actual effects in-universe are random).

[Darth Stabber]

So get a cat with SR 24 and a +1 fort save, a bottle of air, and a spell clock that will cast finger of death (dc 20) with a CL of 14 and put them in a lead box (lead block divination) that has atleast 1' thick sides top and bottom. The box needs to have silence and nondetection cast on it, and a larger lead box goes over the top. The finger of death goes off, there is a 55% chance that the cat will not resist it and a 10% chance that the cat will make the save (not a perfect 50%, but the actuall odds don't matter as it still generates the required probablity field). Silence prevents us from hearing whether or not the cat survived, and between the lead boxes and nondetection, we can be reasonably certain that no one can see in the box (I use both just incase one or the other fails).

[Hubert]

So get a cat with SR 24 and a +1 fort save, a bottle of air, and a spell clock that will cast finger of death (dc 20) with a CL of 14 and put them in a lead box (lead block divination) that has atleast 1' thick sides top and bottom. The box needs to have silence and nondetection cast on it, and a larger lead box goes over the top. The finger of death goes off, there is a 55% chance that the cat will not resist it and a 10% chance that the cat will make the save (not a perfect 50%, but the actuall odds don't matter as it still generates the required probablity field). Silence prevents us from hearing whether or not the cat survived, and between the lead boxes and nondetection, we can be reasonably certain that no one can see in the box (I use both just incase one or the other fails).

But IMHO it is not really a Schrödinger's cat experiment, as it is not based on quantum physics. Just saying "it has 50% chance to be in state A, 50% to be in state B, and I don't look at it" is not sufficient. For the same effect, you could hit a 3 hp cat with any effect that deals 1D6 damage. Indeed, without looking at the cat you cannot tell if it is alive or dead, but for it to be in both state at once, the value of the dice should depend on some quantum effect (and that is not the case).

But since Schrödinger's experiment does not work because of the quantum decoherence... :smalltongue:

[kestrel404]

I guess I should be more specific--the goal wasn't attempting to place the cat into this situation so much as to design a box I can put a player character in.

I'd like to create some sort of device that a player can be put in (using AMF, stinking cloud, or anything you can think of), simply to create a Schrodinger's box. Something that people can't see in to. Something that the person can't escape out of.

You may want to start a new thread. And not mention cats.

[Darth Stabber]

But IMHO it is not really a Schrödinger's cat experiment, as it is not based on quantum physics. Just saying "it has 50% chance to be in state A, 50% to be in state B, and I don't look at it" is not sufficient. For the same effect, you could hit a 3 hp cat with any effect that deals 1D6 damage. Indeed, without looking at the cat you cannot tell if it is alive or dead, but for it to be in both state at once, the value of the dice should depend on some quantum effect (and that is not the case).

But since Schrödinger's experiment does not work because of the quantum decoherence... :smalltongue:

Since there are no quantum physics in D&D saving throws and CL checks are close in that they are probabilities based on factors that are not directly observable by characters. Damage die results would work as well. And quantum decoherence is only a factor for certain interpretations, so until we know more about the universe shrödinger's experiment works and does not work.