Fantasy-less

[Combat Reflexes]

:smallcool:Hey all,

I've been playing d&d 3.5 for a few years now, but I gradually stopped enjoying playing a PC since about three weeks ago; I have a massive identity crisis concerning my characters.

I've already played almost every available class and race* and written every possible backstory, but I just couldn't find the ideal character to play. You could call it Gamer's Block or something like that.

Maybe it's just because I'm too picky (I'm trying to keep an impossible balance between crunch, fluff, optimization and roleplaying aspects), or maybe I have read too many rulebooks/things

Anyway, what I really want is a moderately optimized character (both IC and OOC usefulness) with a cool backstory and one or more (dark) secrets.

Do you have solutions? Ideas? Has anyone had the same problem? I would really like to hear.

oh, and just for info, the party as it is now consists of a druid, a knight, a bard and a warblade/cleric. I'm DMing because, you know, identity disorder.

* If I build something like a Dragonborn Dwarf Sorcerer, I feel it's too exotic and build a human Ranger/Fighter, which I feel is far too plain and so on..

[Darth_Versity]

Maybe your trying to hard. One of the my favourite characters I ever played was a Tiefling Rogue. He was completely unoptimised and went all the way through the first campaign being nothing but a trouble maker.
At the end of the campaign we accidentally freed Wee Jas from a prison made by the other gods and so she made the whole party her chosen and we had to take a level in a arcane casting class.
I ended up as a Rogue 4/ Focused Diviner 2/ Unseen Seer 4 who was mediocre at every thing but had such history throughout the campaign that I loved him to much to want to make something better.
I guess the point Im making is that character growth and interaction in game is a better way to enjoy the character than the back story and number crunching.

[Darth Stabber]

I am starting to run into the opposite problem, I have done nothing but gm for over 2 years (except for a few random one shots), and I am soooooo ready to play right now that it hurts. I can still write adventures, and even if I couldn't I'm not too proud to run modules I can find of the internet. But I've got a nasty case of gm fatigue, and if I don't get to play soon, there could be some cackling TPKs on the horizon. You could always do what I do, make a chart of races, and a chart of classes and roll for characters. Then make a couple of charts with various background details, androll on it for the skeleton of you background. In other words WWGD (what would gygax do?).

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I am starting to run into the opposite problem, I have done nothing but gm for over 2 years (except for a few random one shots), and I am soooooo ready to play right now that it hurts. I can still write adventures, and even if I couldn't I'm not too proud to run modules I can find of the internet. But I've got a nasty case of gm fatigue, and if I don't get to play soon, there could be some cackling TPKs on the horizon. You could always do what I do, make a chart of races, and a chart of classes and roll for characters. Then make a couple of charts with various background details, androll on it for the skeleton of you background. In other words WWGD (what would gygax do?).
I've got the exact same problem. I want to play but no one ever wants to GM besides me. I've got a massive backlog of potential characters but no games to play them in. :smallfrown:

[Telonius]

How about ... Half-Orc Artificer. It's a nonstandard race for the class, and the penalty to INT will hurt. But since he only needs 16 to get the highest-level infusions it's certainly not insurmountable. Depending on the setting the unusual combination can open up all sorts of plot hooks and character development. How'd he get to be an artificer? What's his family history? Do people assume he's dumb, and does he resent that? Is there some sort of "experiment gone awry" lurking in the background?

[Darth Stabber]

How about ... Half-Orc Artificer. It's a nonstandard race for the class, and the penalty to INT will hurt. But since he only needs 16 to get the highest-level infusions it's certainly not insurmountable. Depending on the setting the unusual combination can open up all sorts of plot hooks and character development. How'd he get to be an artificer? What's his family history? Do people assume he's dumb, and does he resent that? Is there some sort of "experiment gone awry" lurking in the background?

I had a gmpc half orc bard (heavy metal drummer) that filled in when a player could not make it (so I didn't have to rebalance encounters on the fly), and with TWF and dragonfire inspiration he became a reasonable addition to the team. With a 16 charisma he wasn't winning any prizes, but he had his thing. Now if he wasn't in a caster party, he would have been better. That is the kind of character that reinvigorates you, a character that isn't very good mechanically, but is awesome in his/her own way (lowish cha bard with two weapon fighing and light maces, lame. Drummer bard that plays solos on enemy heads which inspires his allies to breathe fire, WIN).

[McSmack]

Play a character with amnesia. I know it's a commonly used background. This time though make several characters of the same race/gender/name, with no gear. Give them to the GM. He picks the character. All you know is the name, age, and race of your character. It could be fun to roleplay finding out exactly what it is that you do.

Or just pick stuff at random, completely different race/class combinations. Be a wizard/barbarian just for kicks.

[Quirp]

Have you tried to play a Binder (ToM) ?
crunch - check
fluff - check check
optimisation - possible, but not strictly neccessary
backstory - up to your imagination
dark secret - sure, just try to hide your source of power

and if you ever are tired of doing the same things over and over you can just switch your abilities the next day

[big teej]

-over the top sales pitch-

I bring you, a potential source of inspiration and entertainment...

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166503

[jmelesky]

Play a different system.

Seriously, if you're stuck in heads-down crunch mode, you need a serious palette-cleanser.

Play Savage Worlds. Or a FATE-based fantasy system. Or Burning Wheel. Or any of the dozens of other systems out there. Heck, even a retroclone.

Come back to 3.5 (or move to PF) when you're ready. It'll still be here. In the meantime, your muse clearly doth not dwell within the Forest of Splatbook.

[Combat Reflexes]

Thanks for the replies!


Maybe your trying to hard. One of the my favourite characters I ever played was a Tiefling Rogue. He was completely unoptimised and went all the way through the first campaign being nothing but a trouble maker.

My entire party consists of trouble makers, so something like that'll fit in nicely :smallwink:


How about ... Half-Orc Artificer. It's a nonstandard race for the class, and the penalty to INT will hurt. But since he only needs 16 to get the highest-level infusions it's certainly not insurmountable. Depending on the setting the unusual combination can open up all sorts of plot hooks and character development. How'd he get to be an artificer? What's his family history? Do people assume he's dumb, and does he resent that? Is there some sort of "experiment gone awry" lurking in the background?

Interesting. The one class I know nothing about (except all that regional stuff) so this may be worth a try. I don't have the rulebook containing it though. Where can I find it?


Have you tried to play a Binder (ToM) ?
crunch - check
fluff - check check
optimisation - possible, but not strictly neccessary
backstory - up to your imagination
dark secret - sure, just try to hide your source of power

and if you ever are tired of doing the same things over and over you can just switch your abilities the next day

I tried this, but playing a binder just turned out to be too much work calculating all those bonuses and penalties from all the different vestiges. :smallsigh:

As it stands now I'm creating a half-orc monk/barbarian bartender with anger issues, but I guess I'll change my mind in less than two days.

You DMs have no idea what a tough, ungrateful job playing a character is :smallbiggrin:


EDIT: Changing to a different system is something I would really like, but there is one little problem with our group: only 2 out of 6 can read English well enough to understand thick RPG rulebooks. And I'm one of them. Conclusion: changing to another system will be very hard and will take months.

And lastly, a warning to all new d&d players:
Splatbooks and Min-Max forums WILL take away your fun. Stay away from them and enjoy your straight fighter.

[Darth_Versity]

If you need something new try the new Dragon Age RPG. It's extremely rules lite and yet sits within the fantasy rpg setting. The simplicity of the rules combined with the random stat rolls mean that optimisation is barely possible and playing it is so much fun.

The only problem with the system is that currently the rules only take you to level 10.

[Darth Stabber]

Play a different system.

Seriously, if you're stuck in heads-down crunch mode, you need a serious palette-cleanser.

Play Savage Worlds. Or a FATE-based fantasy system. Or Burning Wheel. Or any of the dozens of other systems out there. Heck, even a retroclone.

Come back to 3.5 (or move to PF) when you're ready. It'll still be here. In the meantime, your muse clearly doth not dwell within the Forest of Splatbook.

Alternately, try a different crunchy system. L5R has some good crunch (I prefer 3rd edition of l5r, but that could just be lack of exposure, or my knee jerk "they changed it now it sucks" reflex. Exalted is also made for crunching.

Or for other good light fare: Iron Claw (crunchable, but the penalty for not doing so is rather low), Mutants and Masterminds (simply amazing, lightish rule set with increadable flexibility, better than gurps and hero systems for "do anything", while being the best super hero rpg I know of), With Great Power (very rules light, very rp intensive, and charater optimization just doesn't work in that system), or Hellcats and Hockeysticks (combine 1 part british private all girls school with 1 part lord of the flies and 3 parts hilarious, serve over open minds).

[Doc Roc]

So, I may be biased... But I think Legend does a bang up job of mechanically alleviating this. New version drops in the next two days.

[ericgrau]

There are many ways to play the same class with a different concept. Or maybe pick your concept first then get a build to match it second. I keep a running list of character concepts whenever I like something then when the time comes to play I look through the list and pick one.

[Divide by Zero]

And lastly, a warning to all new d&d players:
Splatbooks and Min-Max forums WILL take away your fun. Stay away from them and enjoy your straight fighter.

How exactly does playing a character that's better at its job make the game less fun? The first game I played, my character was horrible and I didn't have any fun because I couldn't do anything I wanted the character to be able to do. So I spent some time lurking on here, and now my characters are much more fun to play. You're confusing optimization with munchkinry. Which fallacy is this, again? I always get them mixed up.

[Doc Roc]

How exactly does playing a character that's better at its job make the game less fun? The first game I played, my character was horrible and I didn't have any fun because I couldn't do anything I wanted the character to be able to do. So I spent some time lurking on here, and now my characters are much more fun to play. You're confusing optimization with munchkinry. Which fallacy is this, again? I always get them mixed up.

Stormwind Fallacy, though also a few others in this case. More aptly, it's something I like to call Swift's Sorrow, after the very charming section in Gulliver's Travels where an entire nation is torn apart by the belief that a trivial choice had deep moral implications. Really quite a lovely little excursion to a very heart-warming land!

In short, I think you're yelling at the dark, Combat Reflexes. I don't want to take your fun away. I didn't take your fun away. You took it away.

[Combat Reflexes]

That's a lot of different systems you're suggesting, but it would be very unlikely that my game store has several, or even one or two of them :smallfrown:.
But if there are any, I'll find them eventually

Before we discovered D&D, our group played the Dark Eye system, which we all loved back then (very simple, rules light, RP heavy).
Maybe I can convince the rest to switch back to that. (we're not that much into superhero fluff, more like classic medieval/Roman/barbarian times and the like)


How exactly does playing a character that's better at its job make the game less fun? The first game I played, my character was horrible and I didn't have any fun because I couldn't do anything I wanted the character to be able to do. So I spent some time lurking on here, and now my characters are much more fun to play. You're confusing optimization with munchkinry.

Yeah, maybe I was exaggerating, but my personal experience is that optimization corrupts.
When I first played d&d I had the greatest time with a completely unoptimized fighter, but nowadays I can't build a fighter without thinking Power attack! leap attack! PrC this! PrC that! Warblade dip! Cleric dip! etc.etc. and that's starting to annoy me.


I didn't take your fun away. You took it away.

True. That's why I opened this thread, to find a way to recover my lost fun.

[Darth Stabber]

When I first played d&d I had the greatest time with a completely unoptimized fighter, but nowadays I can't build a fighter without thinking Power attack! leap attack! PrC this! PrC that! Warblade dip! Cleric dip! etc.etc. and that's starting to annoy me.

True. That's why I opened this thread, to find a way to recover my lost fun.

Part of the problem is you are looking at D&D 3.X the wrong way. 1e, 2e, and 4e D&D are all very class based games. 3.X is a hybrid of a class based system and a point buy system. It looks class based, but given the way multiclassing, PRCs, and feats work in this edition, it is a convoluted point but. First off is the stat points, optional system but still. Then you have classes, they are the major type points used to by functionality in certain general areas, skills, feats and in a small number of instances XP are all used to buy the functions of your character. It's hard to see initially since A)with all the other editions being class based and B) they hide the points in the class. Casters play like class based, but only because of how magic works, and with urpriest, sublime chord and apostle of peace, you can shuffle off casting late into your build. The key is to ignore the fluff of base classes when they fit you mechanical concept, and maybe even with PRCs, or refluff when applicable, with in the bounds of your setting and the GMs tolerances.

[Telonius]

Interesting. The one class I know nothing about (except all that regional stuff) so this may be worth a try. I don't have the rulebook containing it though. Where can I find it?


The full class is listed in the Eberron campaign setting. WOTC has a bare-bones description of it here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20060328a), but it doesn't have enough so that you'd be able to play it without the book. (For that you'd need a full list of the Infusions, which are basically another sort of spell that you cast on items or constructs instead of people).

While the class itself is specifically geared to Eberron, it can fit into many settings. It comes in steampunk-ish wrapping, but you can take that off and still have the mechanics.

[ericgrau]

Yeah, maybe I was exaggerating, but my personal experience is that optimization corrupts.
When I first played d&d I had the greatest time with a completely unoptimized fighter, but nowadays I can't build a fighter without thinking Power attack! leap attack! PrC this! PrC that! Warblade dip! Cleric dip! etc.etc. and that's starting to annoy me.
True, when leap attack is better than everything else, you'd be gimping yourself to not take it which limits your options. Try playing without leap attack and so on and see if you can get your group to do the same to keep it fair. Likewise watch out for other feats and PrCs that actually limit options instead of adding them because they're the only best option available for a style.

Roughly 2/3 of my past few characters would have been impossible if I needed leap attack/etc. to keep up (disallowing other weaker options) or if I had to ban evocation or if I had to Codzilla instead of diversifying my abilities.