Help me build a Rage Phophet [PATHFINDER]

[Thefurmonger]

Before I start, this is for the PATHFINDER RPG

Sorry, had to get that out of the way :smallsmile:

Anyway, here is the situation.

I need to make a 7th level back-up character for a PATHFINDER campaign set in Eberron.

Anyway I'll start with the fluff...

Gorbath started as a lot of half orcs do, he was raised in your standard run of the mill Orc tribe (In our world, Orcs and 1/2 orcs live together).

He was your normal young strong Barbarian (Barbarian 1). However from an early age the tribe could see some leadership potential in him (Decent Cha).

One day the tribes shaman came forward and told all of the young fighters of the tribe that their god had given him a sign, a sign that one of them would become a chosen champion, chosen to do great things in the name of their god.

Natural talent or not, Gorbath would have to prove he was worthy in the Orc way, through combat.
two by two the hopefuls steped into the fighting pit to show their worth, in the end Gorbath was victorious. But the battles had done great dammage to him in the process.
While still bloody and lame from his victory the Shaman blessed him and he could feel the power of his god flow through him. (Oracle Level 1)

Afterwords, the Shaman ehealed him but explained that the wound to his leg would forever remind him the price one pays for power. (Oracle "Lame" Curse)

So thats the fluff thus far.... Crunch to come in the next post.

[Thefurmonger]

Ok here is the crunch...

Please keep in mind this is for PATHFINDER

I can build with either 15 point buy OR 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10

Also I get 2 Flaws (3.5) and 2 Traits

For flaws I was thinking extra rage and Raging vitality (but thats just a thought)

The campaign is about 50/50 combat/RP

I plan to fight with a Falchion and be a front liner.

Questions...

1. What class levels would you take to hit Rage Prophet More Barb? more oracle?

2. Would you go Battle Mystery? or some other?

3. I was thinking of useing a lot of feats on either extra Rage power or extra revelation. good idea?

4. I have never built a Melee character for Pathfinder, so any advice is great.

Thanks for reading, and I look forward to any help you can give.

***Note***, yes I realise Rage prophet is not the best PRC out there, and yes im good with that.

[gourdcaptain]

Rage prophets are a bit mechanically troubled by their lack of extra rage turns from any levels in Rage Prophet. I loved the idea and wanted to play one, but I can't find a reasonable way to get enough rage turns together to make it anything more than a slightly angry oracle without dumping too many feats/caster levels.

[Thefurmonger]

Rage prophets are a bit mechanically troubled by their lack of extra rage turns from any levels in Rage Prophet. I loved the idea and wanted to play one, but I can't find a reasonable way to get enough rage turns together to make it anything more than a slightly angry oracle without dumping too many feats/caster levels.

Well with one level of barbarian I get 4+con.

If I take extra rage that 6 more.

Once I hit 5th level Oracle I am immune to fatiuge so rage can get turned on and off as often as I like.

Yes 12ish rounds of rage a day is not much, but eventually I will be able to blow spell slots for it.

[subject42]

If you look in the SRD feat list, you can get a natural bite attack if you're a half orc. It's better than not having a bite attack.

[Kilbourne]

The best thing about rage prophet is adding a second stat to your magic DC's. Pump that Constitution!

[Akal Saris]

The problem with rage prophet is that it doesn't have an efficient mechanism to use spells along with melee combat. So a good way to make one decent is to look for opportunities to use your spell-casting without disrupting your combat abilities. Two examples that come immediately to mind are quicken spell and spell-storing weapons. In addition, you could rely on long-duration buff spells, or choose spells mostly for utility/interaction rather than taking combat spells.

1. What class levels would you take to hit Rage Prophet More Barb? more oracle?

I'd build the character as Barbarian 4/Oracle 1/Rage Prophet 10. Normally with a gish you want to maximize your CL, but rage prophet already requires 2 levels of barbarian (for the moment of clarity rage power), and loses three more. At that point, you might as well just be as barbaric as possible. Also, note that Savage Seer makes barbarian levels stack for oracle abilities, so a Barbarian 4/Oracle 1/Rage Prophet 1 counts as an oracle 6 for his single revelation.

2. Would you go Battle Mystery? or some other?

Battle is really good, and the Combat Healer revelation combos well with Raging Healer to let you spend spell slots while raging. It fits well with your background as well.

The Life revelation also has Combat Healer, and afterwards you could finish the last 5 levels of the character with Holy Vindicator, getting BAB +16 and CL 11, or BAB +16 and CL 13 if you favor oracle levels. Life has a ton of good revelations for an in-combat healer actually - spirit boost combined with Raging Healer would make you an incredible tank for as long as your spell slots last.

3. I was thinking of useing a lot of feats on either extra Rage power or extra revelation. good idea?

Yes. You probably only need 1 use of Extra Rage, but each extra revelation or extra rage power will probably go to good use.

4. I have never built a Melee character for Pathfinder, so any advice is great.

Lunge is a great feat, as is power attack. Try to invest in 1 way to keep an opponent locked down, whether through tripping, grappling, or creating difficult terrain with oracle spells/revelations. As I mentioned earlier, spell storing weapons are a great tool for any melee character.

Good luck!

[grarrrg]

I can build with either 15 point buy OR 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10
1. What class levels?...More Barb? more oracle?

2. Would you go Battle Mystery? or some other?

My 2 cents (and a previous my 2 cents (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198615))

Go with the array, with point-buy your highs would only be slightly higher, but your lows would be horrible.
At least with the array you don't have any mod penalties.
Put the bigger 3 in Str, Con, and Cha however you think would work best (keep in mind, +2 any from Half-Orc, and +1 to any at level 4, and 8)
For the rest i say put the 12 in Int for the skills,
11 in Wis (your classes have good will saves)
10 in Dex

What? Dex is your dump stat??

Here's why:
First off, your Revelations/Rage Powers will be very few, because Prophet doesn't give you any more. So don't go and pick a Mystery based on the lots of awesome revelations, because you aren't going to get many. Instead look for the one or two Revelations that can help your character the most and pick based on that.

My recommended picks are,
Lore Mystery > Sidestep revelation. REPLACES Dex with Cha for AC and Reflex saves.
OR
Nature Mystery > Nature's Whispers revelation. REPLACES Dex with Cha for AC and CMD.

Both allow you to dump your Dex score, while getting more use out of your Cha score (if you DO go point buy, drop Dex down to 7 for the extra points).

Nature will give you skills you already have from Barbarian, Lore will give you skills that you probably won't use much.
**Side Note: Lore gives you Spellcraft as a class skill. Oracles are the only ones who can take mysteries, and ALREADY have Spellcraft as a class skill. Who checked this?**

[Thefurmonger]

The problem with rage prophet is that it doesn't have an efficient mechanism to use spells along with melee combat. So a good way to make one decent is to look for opportunities to use your spell-casting without disrupting your combat abilities. Two examples that come immediately to mind are quicken spell and spell-storing weapons. In addition, you could rely on long-duration buff spells, or choose spells mostly for utility/interaction rather than taking combat spells.

Yeah I had planned on just useing the spells for some minor healing or long running buffs, I can pick up a rod of extend if need be.


1. What class levels would you take to hit Rage Prophet More Barb? more oracle?

I'd build the character as Barbarian 4/Oracle 1/Rage Prophet 10. Normally with a gish you want to maximize your CL, but rage prophet already requires 2 levels of barbarian (for the moment of clarity rage power), and loses three more. At that point, you might as well just be as barbaric as possible. Also, note that Savage Seer makes barbarian levels stack for oracle abilities, so a Barbarian 4/Oracle 1/Rage Prophet 1 counts as an oracle 6 for his single revelation.

Really?

Savage seer says "A rage prophet’s class level stacks with barbarian levels for determining the effect of his rage powers, oracle revelations, and his oracle’s curse. This does not grant additional abilities."

That seems to me to say that if i am a barb 4 and oracle 1, when i pick up RP1 those both go up by 1 for rage powers and revelations.

If it works like you say then I am a LOT more happy.


2. Would you go Battle Mystery? or some other?

Battle is really good, and the Combat Healer revelation combos well with Raging Healer to let you spend spell slots while raging. It fits well with your background as well.

The Life revelation also has Combat Healer, and afterwards you could finish the last 5 levels of the character with Holy Vindicator, getting BAB +16 and CL 11, or BAB +16 and CL 13 if you favor oracle levels. Life has a ton of good revelations for an in-combat healer actually - spirit boost combined with Raging Healer would make you an incredible tank for as long as your spell slots last.

I think I will go battle as it really fits the character.


3. I was thinking of useing a lot of feats on either extra Rage power or extra revelation. good idea?

Yes. You probably only need 1 use of Extra Rage, but each extra revelation or extra rage power will probably go to good use.

Well if I go Barb 5/oracle 1/RP 1, or Barb 4/oracle 2/RP 1
Then yeah one use of extra rage should do it.


4. I have never built a Melee character for Pathfinder, so any advice is great.

Lunge is a great feat, as is power attack. Try to invest in 1 way to keep an opponent locked down, whether through tripping, grappling, or creating difficult terrain with oracle spells/revelations. As I mentioned earlier, spell storing weapons are a great tool for any melee character.

Good luck!

Thanks for all your advice. I really appreciate it.

[grarrrg]

Savage Seer

It has poor wording, but I believe this is what it should say:

A rage prophet’s class level stacks with barbarian levels for determining the effect of his rage powers.
A rage prophet’s class level stacks with oracle levels for determining the effect of his oracle revelations, and his oracle’s curse.
This does not grant additional abilities.

Either way, you do NOT get any additional powers. Just that the ones you already have can get better. In the case of a Barb5/Oracle1/Prophet+ You still only have _one_ revelation.



I think I will go battle as it really fits the character.

It may fit the character, but the revelations strike me as "so-so" (in your case) compared to Cha-to-AC.
Battle DOES give Enlarge Person as a spell known at Oracle 2 though.

Considering Barb Rage, your options are:
Lore/Nature: better AC all the time, easier on Stats, allows 1 more level of Barb
Battle: More "rage" and/or Super "rage" (use Enlarge when you're out of Rage, or use Enlarge with Rage to become the Hulk), requires 1 more level of Oracle

Edit addition: Combat Healer is not available until Oracle 7. Add in a delay from taking 2-to-4 levels of Barbarian, and you won't get it until level 9 at the earliest, more likely level 11. AND it would require taking a 3rd level of Oracle which would further help to lower your Bab/hp.

The 'ideal' level 20 Rage Prophet build is between Barb8/Oracle2 and Barb2/Oracle8. You seem to want the more Barb based build. With that your max Bab is 17 (assuming fractional Bab). Lower the max by 1 if you take any more Oracle. Lower it by another 1 if you can't use fractional Bab.

As far as "Battle Mystery matches the flavor", yeah, he's a Barbarian leader, and Barbarians are all about the battle, but your guy is one of the LESS effective combat guys (less Bab, less HP, Lame). I'd say think less "Master of War" and think more "Inspiring Leader".

[Thefurmonger]

Sadly I think your right...

I may have to reflavor the tribe shaman into a druid and have it be a Nature Oracle.

I just cant turn my back on (at least partialy) dumping Dex.

And for the record why the hell is the "Lore" version better (by a lot) then the "Nature" one?

Lore adds to AC AND the Ref saves....

[grarrrg]

Browsing through Ultimate Magic on the
Your flavor is Orc Tribe Leader, so that's the kind of things I looked for.
Boiling Blood (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/collaborators/work-area/paizo-products/pathfinder-rpg-line/ultimate-magic/chapter-5-spells/boiling-blood), Oracle 2, a low powered offensive spell, or a decently useful Buff spell. 1 Orc/Half-Orc per 3 caster levels gets a +2 Str boost for 1 round/level + (concentration check result).

Delay Pain (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/collaborators/work-area/paizo-products/pathfinder-rpg-line/ultimate-magic/chapter-5-spells/delay-pain), Oracle 2, this one is more flavor and (probably) less useful. Allows a target to ignore pain, and effects of pain for hour/level.

Not in Ultimate Magic, but Amplified Rage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/) and Sympathetic Rage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/sympathetic-rage-combat) could both be handy with other Orcish Barbarians nearby.



And for the record why the hell is the "Lore" version better (by a lot) then the "Nature" one?

Lore adds to AC AND the Ref saves....

Well, the Nature one does AC and CMD (Combat Maneuver Defense).
But I agree. Not so much "WHY the hell is Lore better?", but more "HOW in the hell is Lore better?"
Lore is all about Knowledge and "unlocking the secrets of the universe" and such. Heck, one of the Revelations even gives an honest to goodness solid bonus to Int (starts at +1, maxes at +5), which works VERY nicely with the Pathfinder skill system to retroactively give you more skills. In this case +5 int is worth _50_ skill points at level 20 (actually 40 to 60).
Lore is also the LEAST combat oriented mystery.
So again, HOW in the hell does it get the awesome Cha-to-AC&Ref ability?