3.5 Fighter Feats and Prestige Help

[Megaboss517]

Hi!

First of all i have to say that I'm kinda new playing D&D. I have a lvl 2 fighter and i wanted to know what feats are good. I have Quick draw and Power attack now. Some friends recommended me to choose Cleave, however i don't see it so useful since our DM prefers using one or two strong monster instead of a bunch of weaker foes.

I use a great sword, however sometimes I have to tank, so I'm thinking in geting some shield feats and became a Vassal of Bahamut. I would be glad if you help me with some interesting feats or some other good prestiges.

Thank you!

[Greenish]

Sword & board isn't that good, mainly because of the turtle problem (if you're all defense with low offense, why attack you?), poor scaling of AC (at least from armour) and the simple fact that Animated Shield is relatively cheap.

Now, which sources do you have available, how strong do you want to be, and who else are in your party?

[Megaboss517]

Well we are a paladin, a rogue, a monk, a druid and a fighter (me). I wanted to do mainly dmg, thats why a choose the great sword. We are planing to keep playing for a long time.. maybe geting to 20 or so if posible. And we are using 3.5 edition. I was looking for prestige in other books like complete warrior, exalted deeds, complete adventurer, but i have almost all the books on my computer.

[Greenish]

So, what is considered strong in your campaign, and how strong you want to be? Your lineup suggest low op, so maybe just fighter, then PrC out to Singh Rager (OA) once you qualify (after level 7, that is).

Did you have anything specific in mind other than fightery guy who does damage in the frontlines?

[Edit]: What are your race and 3rd feat?

[Megaboss517]

Im a Human and my other feat is weapon focus. Well atm i just do melee fight, but i was looking for other feats to make my char more versatile. Hmm we know that in or world there is a place full of dragons, and actually we believe is an important part in the story of our DM. But know we are in a place full of undeads and other evil creatures.

[Greenish]

Hmm, if you want versatility, the time to ditch the fighter is now. Could you consider being a spellcaster, or are skills close to your heart?

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Most books, you say? Look up dungeon crasher, from Dungeonscape. Bull rush your enemies to their dooms. For bonus lulz, roll a Goliath and pick up Knock-back.

If you want more versatility in your melee, Tome of Battle was made for that. It seems powerful at first, but then you realize that the Druid can be two to five competent melee combatants at once, and cast spells, and you're still just one Warblade rockin' out.

[ericgrau]

Well I imagine you already have weapon focus (greatsword) and power attack so it's a bit late to switch to a shield. Unless the DM lets you have weapon focus (longsword) or (falchion) instead then you can switch back and forth between two handing the longsword and wielding a shield. Especially since you have quickdraw.

It's a bad rumor that foes are even capable of ignoring you or that an easier target exists. This is D&D not WoW; low level fights are maybe 3-5 swings and movement is extremely expensive. Besides other defenses the back line may have making it even more of a pointless waste of time to go to them instead of you. It's also a bad rumor that AC won't keep up forever when all it takes is some minor optimization with gear. If allowed to change to a longsword or falchion then I'd open fights with a charge and a nice heavy two handed power attack swing, then next round quick draw your shield and strap it on (a move action) if the enemy seems threatening. If you're forced to keep weapon focus (greatsword) then scrap all this and just stick to one style instead of spreading yourself too thin.

For future feats there's the fighter tree of course, then it depends what you want to do. Combat expertise helps shield users even more, especially against foes with less attack bonus or AC than you. And it opens up other options like tripping which then goes well with combat reflexes. The mounted combat feats, improved critical, the save boosting feats, improved initiative. What other books are you allowed besides the PHB?

[agahii]

At this point I would start taking levels in warblade (tome of battle). That will give you all the versatility you need.

[Greenish]

Unless the DM lets you have weapon focus (longsword) or (falchion) instead then you can switch back and forth between two handing the longsword and wielding a shield.Scimitar is the one-handed one, falchion is two-handed.


I'm a big fan of ToB, but that may be a bit much to your level and group.

[Runestar]

Quickdraw isn't really useful at this point in time, given that you cannot yet make full attacks.

It may not be a bad idea working up the spring attack feat tree (assuming you have a decent speed). Fighters can take spring attack at 4th lv, at which point using it is practically a lossless proposition. This lets you attack, and when monsters move towards you to attack, they are deprived of their full-attack routine. As well as paving the way for bounding assault and rapid blitz feats (PHB2).

[Gavinfoxx]

As a Fighter, you are a relatively weak class (like Paladin and Monk).

I would go focusing on Charging, and focus on two handed fighting with a Greatsword, or another weapon wielded in two hands (remember that you can weild a longsword or scimitar in two hands and get +1.5x strength, and the extra return on power attack).

Retrain (from Players Handbook II) Quick Draw to something actually useful, like Improved Bull Rush, which is on your way to Shock Trooper (Complete Warrior). And don't worry about AC, really. Worry about one shotting enemies -- that is your goal. Tanking is done by being enough of a threat (by one shotting whatever you are in front at), OR by being Enlarged, carrying a reach weapon (ideally Spiked Chain or Guisarme), and having a build focusing on Stand Still or Knock Down or Improved Trip or all of the above.

What books do you have available to you? Is it JUST the PHB, DMG and MM? If so, the best melee build for NON spellcasters (ie, non clerics or druids, which melee better than most of you guys with even a smidgen of effort) in those books is probably this:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80415

[McSmack]

Since you're new to the game I'll give you some advice. Most of the folks on this forum are like the Tiger Woods of D&D. They can take the game to a level you probably didn't even know existed. Which can be awesome, or it can be bad.

Cause no one wants to be constantly overshadowed. If you build some amazing character that deals out hundreds of points of damage on a single attack you'll end up making the game less fun for the other players. So be careful when you use this advice that you aren't pulling too far ahead of the rest of your group.

That said, Tome of Battle- The Book of Nine Swords is awesome. But it is divisive and many DM's don't use it. It made the melee classes from the core rulebook (barbarian, fighter, paladin, ranger, rogue, monk) relatively obsolete, because anything you wanted to do, a Tome of Battle character could do better (mostly).

Given what you've said about the game and your build, I'd probably stick with fighter, for a while, until you find something you like better. I'd probably see if you can chage Quick Draw for a different feat, since you probably won't need to switch out weapons that often.

I probably wouldn't bother with using a shield at this point. Since you're invested in being awesome with a greatsword, you'll want to use it as often as possible. Invest in a good set of armor (probably full plate or a breastplate depending on your dexterity) and save up some extra money to get an animated shield.

Powerattack is a good feat that gets much better as you level and can invest more into it. Shock Trooper from Complete Warrior lets you use powerattack to lower your AC instead of your attack bonus when you charge. This is awesome because it lets you charge and still have a good chance to hit. Put ranks in Jump so that when you get to level 6 you can take Leap Attack (Complete Adventurer).
For a charging build your next couple of feats should look like this:
2) change quickdraw to Improved Bull Rush (prereq for Shock Trooper)
3)Cleave or Powerful Charge (Eberron Campaign Setting +1d8 damage on charges)
4) Weapon Specialization (not the greatest feat, but it suits the character well)
6)Shock Trooper
6)Leap Attack

This will give you superior melee damage without totally overshadowing the rest of the party. It's not the best build in town, but it's not too shabby.

[Megaboss517]

Nice! thanks for the help! Now that you suggest taking Improved Bull Rush.. it is just for the shock trooper or it is really useful? I was reading about the feats you propose and Bull rush seems to only push the foe 5 feets..

[Telonius]

Nice! thanks for the help! Now that you suggest taking Improved Bull Rush.. it is just for the shock trooper or it is really useful? I was reading about the feats you propose and Bull rush seems to only push the foe 5 feets..

It's usually just for Shock Trooper. There are a very small number of circumstances where moving your enemy 5 feet will do more damage than hitting it with your sword.

[Dusk Eclipse]

It's usually just for Shock Trooper. There are a very small number of circumstances where moving your enemy 5 feet will do more damage than hitting it with your sword.
Like being a Dungeon crasher fighter? :smalltongue:

[Telonius]

Like being a Dungeon crasher fighter? :smalltongue:

As I said, a very small number of circumstances.

[Cog]

Nice! thanks for the help! Now that you suggest taking Improved Bull Rush.. it is just for the shock trooper or it is really useful? I was reading about the feats you propose and Bull rush seems to only push the foe 5 feets..
Any successful check moves them five feet. The more you win the check by, the further you move them.

[Heatwizard]

Well we are a paladin, a rogue, a monk, a druid and a fighter (me)

Five melee classes(and a bear)? Well, if you're considering taking Warblade levels, and you'd like to make the entire party more dangerous, White Raven is full of maneuvers that give your frontline buddies bonuses and extra actions. Considering that's all of you, I imagine it'd be very useful.

[Keld Denar]

Also, unlike in 4e, most forced movement in 3.5 provokes AoOs. If you give up your attack to bull rush someone 5' which gives the paladin to the left and the rogue to the right an AoO, and their combined damage is higher than your attack, you've done something right.

As far as PrCs, it REALLY doesn't matter a whole lot. It might be worthwhile to look into a partial caster PrC though. Take 2 levels in Duskblade (PHBII, to get the skills and feats needed), and 2 levels in any other full BAB class, and then dance into Suel Arcanamach (CArcane). It gives you casting that advances a little bit faster than multiclassing into Sorcerer would and gives you access to some very nice low level buffs that'll make you more resiliant than more fighter levels will. Since very few spells you get as a Suel Arcanamach require saves, you don't need an AMAZING Cha, just a decent one. 20 after items (so, 14 base) is plenty. Take some gems like Shield and Mirror Image and maybe eventually Polymorph, and you'll be twice the Fighter you were, while still not breaking the game into itty bitty tiny shattered pieces.

For even more candy, PrC your Suel Arcanamach into Abjurant Champion (CChamp) after 4 levels, and cap it off with a level of Spellsword (CWar) to keep from losing more BAB.

[Bob the DM]

As I DM 95+ percent of the time I rarely get to play, but when I do I LOVE the fighter. It's so simple and straightforward that it's truely beautiful. There's so few class features that you can focus on roleplaying and odd/interesting character traits. With so many feats and access to almost any weapon you can have whatever flavour you want. In the game I'm running now, there's a fighter, a swordsage, a sorcerer, and a cleric/crusader and the only player who is constant is the fighter. Also, as a DM, I like having the fighter around so I know exactly his capabilities and can much more easily give my minions weapons and armour that he can use when and if the pc's win. He's most likely to get the coolest loot also, because if I want to send more powerful undead at them, then a session before when they're looting through some ruins he can find a +1 silvered undead bane longsword. If his looted sword is to powerful then when they're finished with the undead someone he's fighting can sunder it and he'll take their magical weapon as a replacement.

I think both you and your DM will like fighter. :)

[Greenish]

There's so few class features that you can focus on roleplaying and odd/interesting character traits.I know a few other classes you'd love: here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/npcClasses/aristocrat.htm), here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/npcClasses/commoner.htm) and here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/npcClasses/warrior.htm). I know some of those may be more complex than you'd like, what with actually having class skills, but still. :smallamused:

[Bob the DM]

I don't know if I'd recommend an NPC class to someone that's new to DnD, that just seems kind of mean. But the next time I play a level 1 campain I'm starting off as a warrior. I think the Goliath is a +1 race and npc's are -1 ecl so I'd be able to do that and then convert the warrior to a fighter for the next level. Goliath with the long axe. :)

[Greenish]

npc's are -1 eclCR ≠ ECL.

Each for their own, but I've never understood the point of playing D&D without class features or skills. I also wouldn't call fighters "simple", so eh.

[agahii]

Its way easier to roleplay a great melee warrior, when you actually are one. That being said, the fighter is harder to roleplay in that aspect.

[Big Fau]

I'm a big fan of ToB, but that may be a bit much to your level and group.

Tell that to the Druid. :smalltongue:

[Greenish]

Tell that to the Druid. :smalltongue:Even druid is easier to play poorly than ToB. :smalltongue:

But yeah, that's the odd one out.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Okay, chiming in and putting in my own two cents into the already surplus of hot air...

Fighter simply isn't worth it. Feats are not flexible enough to make having a bunch of them worth the complete and utter lack of other class abilities worth it.

A two-level dip in Fighter is great for getting feats to set up a combo early. But, other than Dungeoncrasher or the intimidation-based variant, no one really bothers with Fighter after 2nd level.

The question is, of course, what do you want to do from here? You do have several options.

You like to swing a big sword. Would you like to do so while being unable to be flanked, and be stronger while you do it? Go Barbarian. You'll get actual class abilities worth having. Core, this is probably your best bet, hands down.

Would you like to be able to fight AND do other things? For example, would you like to increase your size, and thus your reach and damage? Would you like to be able to make a full attack on a charge? Do you have options that include SRD material?

Then, my friend, you may wish to consider Psychic Warrior. Sure, it's only a 3/4 BAB class, but that's what the Slayer PrC fixes for you. And in return, you gain the following:

* Even MORE bonus feats. I cannot suggest Shock Trooper strongly enough, it is possibly the single strongest option for you at the moment. From there, Leap Attack is also a natural grab.

* A limited number of psionic powers. This is good for you for several reasons. First, you don't have a huge spellbook full of abilities that you have to keep track of. You've got maybe a handful, and that's it. Keep it short, sweet, and to the point. But, they are generally USEFUL abilities. Much moreso than feats alone.

* SRD support. If you have internet, you have access to full details of your class, and your powers.

Do you like swinging a sword? Do you like being really damn good at it? Are you willing to consider Tome of Battle material? If so, then my friend, the ONLY choice left to you is to immediately go into Warblade, and never look back. It is everything Fighter wished it could have been, when it cries in a corner like an emo boy. No, really, it's that good. It turns you into the Chuck Norris of the D&D world, it's that good.