Soul Manifester - What is it good for?

[GoatBoy]

Located here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20060217a), the Soul Manifester is a dual-progression prestige class for Incarnum and Psionic classes. I'm planning on playing one for my next game, less out of a desire to be powerful and more because I want to become more familiar with Psionics and Incarnum in one fell swoop.

I'm planning on entering via Psion (Egoist) 3/Incarnate (Lawful) 2. Totemist doesn't feel like a suitable meldshaping entry due to the PrC's poor BAB, and Soulborn is simply terrible. As for Psionic entry, PsyWar's power progression is too delayed, and the Wilder is limited enough as is. As for Erudite... I'd rather not but I'm open to the idea. I'd also like to avoid the spell-to-power option.

I don't think the Soul Manifester is a suitable blaster or primary caster, due to the lost manifester levels. It looks more like a heavy-AC melee class to me, with a bit of healing available in a crunch (hence Egoist entry), and having an abundance of options available when metamorphosis is learned (game starts at level 2, so I'll need to stay alive until then).

Does all this sound good? I'm not married to the concept, all I really want to do is play a Soul Manifester in the most effective way possible. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

[KillianHawkeye]

I don't think the Soul Manifester is a suitable blaster or primary caster, due to the lost manifester levels. It looks more like a heavy-AC melee class to me, with a bit of healing available in a crunch (hence Egoist entry), and having an abundance of options available when metamorphosis is learned (game starts at level 2, so I'll need to stay alive until then).

If you take the feat Practiced Manifester, you can raise your ML up to your HD and be just as competent as any other manifester, at least in terms of your ability to augment your powers. Keep in mind that many low level powers maintain their usefulness into later levels because of the ease with which they are augmented.

[Big Fau]

Legacy Champion can be used to make up for the lost BAB, making Totemist a slightly better option. You can also use the Chakra Bind powers to make up for lost Meldshaper levels.

[Ernir]

Incarnate/Ardent is the usual entry, I believe.

[Cog]

Despite 1/2 BAB, it can make a grappling monster as well, with PsyWar for Expansion and Grip of Iron and Totemist for Girallon Arms and Kraken Mantle.

[kestrel404]

As has been noted, Ardent is very good for a multiclassing psion, since the practiced Manifester feat allows you to ignore up to 4 levels where you're not advancing your manifesting abilities in favor of

In fact, my preferred entry to soul manifester is:
Ardent 1
Totemist 1
Ardent +1 (Practiced Manifester)
Totemist +1
Incarnate 1

Soul Manifester's meldshaping advancement goes towards increasing your incarnate meldshaping (since two levels of totemist will get you about 80% of the good stuff from the entire class, and you won't get anything else of note without going pure totemist anyway). Afterwards, 1 level of Incarnate (giving you Incarnate 12 meldshaping and thus another chakra bind) for a total of 4 levels missing from Ardent's manifester progression, followed by either more Ardent (to get a 4th mantle) or some other psionic prestige class - this will let you pick up 9th level powers by level 17, unless the psionic prestige class you pick skips advancing manifester level on the first level (over half of them do), in which case you get 9th level powers by level 18.

[Keld Denar]

I played around with a neat little build using Ardent3/Incarnate2 as entry into Soul Manifester, using the Psychic Focus meld in conjunction with the Energy Mantle to make a fun, neat little blaster. Energy Missiles are a riot! Pick up Psycarnum Infusion and Midnight Augmentation (along with the obligatory Azure Talent required for entry) and pump up the jams.

The other Psionic melds are pretty decent as well. Astral Vambraces gets you DR 2 + 2e/Magic which is VERY strong at low levels, and when you bind it to your arms, can give you any item from Astral Construct Menu A, among which are fly and swim speeds. The Minklink one also enables you to take Mindsight, IIRC, which is freakin awesome.

[Kantolin]

Don't forget to take share soulmelds for your psicrystal. Soul Manifester can give a lot of oompf to them, or at least something to do.

[Draz74]

Psycarnum Infusion and Midnight Augmentation

This bears repeating.

[GoatBoy]

Why is the Ardent considered a stronger entry than the Psion? I would assume that twice as many powers known, fewer restrictions on chosen powers, and a stronger manifesting stat is worth heavy armor proficiency, two extra hit points, and half a point of attack bonus.

I'm not saying Ardent is a bad class, it just looks to me like a weaker entry for Soul Manifester.

EDIT: It appears I have missed something about power selection for the Ardent that lets them pick higher-level powers. I guess I should research this a bit more.

[Forged Fury]

EDIT: It appears I have missed something about power selection for the Ardent that lets them pick higher-level powers. I guess I should research this a bit more.
The Basics: Ardents don't have a Maximum Power Level known column or text in their class. Putting that with Practiced Manifester allows them to manifest higher level powers than would be normal for their level. In other words, it gives you more space to add other Prestige Classes.

[Keld Denar]

Also, Wisdom synergy. Ardents are Wis based manifesters. Incarnate soulmeld DCs are Wis based. If you are using melds like Psychic Focus or Incarnum Weapon, the higher your Wisdom is, the higher your DCs will be for those melds as well as your powers.

Be SAD, not MAD!

[Dusk Eclipse]

Also, Wisdom synergy. Ardents are Wis based manifesters. Incarnate soulmeld DCs are Wis based. If you are using melds like Psychic Focus or Incarnum Weapon, the higher your Wisdom is, the higher your DCs will be for those melds as well as your powers.

Be SAD, not MAD!

Outside of D&D context that quote is a bit disturbing...

But in this context it is absolutely right, so a +1 to Ardent/Incarnate entry.

Conflict and Freedom mantles are pretty good in all, and IIRC Nature World mantle has Metamorphosis.

[Draz74]

A Psion entry to Soul Manifester is still perfectly viable, though. It won't get access to high-level powers as fast as the Ardent, and it won't have the WIS synergy with soulmelds that give Save DCs (which are rare anyway), but it does have one huge advantage: Bonus Feats. Soul Manifester builds are inevitably going to be terribly feat-starved, and for that reason I might pick Psion over Ardent.

[Jude_H]

As long as you have Practiced Manifester, DCs and damage should be on par with a normal psion, even if unique effects lag a bit. The defenses and passives of the Incarnate might relieve some of the PP that would otherwise go into those areas.

Totemist isn't all blasting; it might even be more attractive than Incarnate because of its better framework, more focused stats and the offensive options built into the totem bind (not the close combat ones; things like the purple worm mask).

Totemist 10/Warmind 5/Soul Manifester 5 might be interesting as a melee build..

[Big Fau]

Also, Wisdom synergy. Ardents are Wis based manifesters. Incarnate soulmeld DCs are Wis based. If you are using melds like Psychic Focus or Incarnum Weapon, the higher your Wisdom is, the higher your DCs will be for those melds as well as your powers.

Be SAD, not MAD!

Except you don't really need Wis to play an Incarnate, since their better soulmelds don't offer a saving throw to resist (Crystal Helm, Spellward Shirt, etc).

And since you're also a Manifester, you likely won't be using those soulmelds anyway (since they really don't help you that much).

[Keld Denar]

Well, if you are dabbling in both, you can use Psychic Focus, as I mentioned, to tack a Save vs Daze on all of your psionic nukes. Manifest a full level Energy Missiles to blast a large group of baddies and force a save vs Daze on all of them, on top of the couple extra damage. Or better yet, drop an Energy Stun on them for a double threat with a Save vs Daze and another Save vs Stun.