3.5 Soulbow assistance

[Webslinger17]

Good day all, I was hoping I could get a hand with a Soulbow build I'm working on. All 3.5 books are allowed, but no magazines.

My plan was:
Cloistered Cleric 1
for Knowledge and Travel devotion, and Point Blank Shot from the Elf Domain. With flaws and starting feat I'd take: Rapid Shot, Two Weapon Fighting, and Improved Initiative

then Soulknife 2, taking Zen Archery at level 3

next I was going to take a two level dip into Swordsage.
I figured since Wisdom was going to be my bread and butter, I might as well add it to my AC too. Plus, some of the opening maneuvers are decent for defense I was thinking: Blistering Flourish, Distracting Ember, Wind Stride, Counter Charge, Mighty Throw, Clinging Shadow Strike, and Shadow Jaunt.

then off to Soulbow. I was really enjoying this build until I realized at level 9 I'd be getting 2 feats (at level 6 I chose Stealthy and Able Sniper) yet was 1 Base Attack shy of being able to take all the good stuff with a 6 BAB prereq.

So, my questions:
Is the Swordsage dip worthwhile? I could always take it post-Soulbow, but the Wis to AC and few neat maneuvers seem better the earlier I can get them.

Would waiting until level 12 to get feats like Woodland Archer, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Manyshot and Improved Rapid Shot be that big a deal?

Providing me with three feats, the Cloistered Cleric dip seems like a good investment. However, a fighter dip would get me one extra, and I could always pick up the devotion feats at a later time, and I'd get that point of BAB. So perhaps that would be the better choice?

Are there any alternate class features out there that allow gives a class with straight BAB the Turn Undead ability at first level? The only reason I'd want that is to fuel Travel Devotion, but if there was a way to have a 1 level ranger or fighter dip that granted turn undead I'd rather do that than Cloistered Cleric.

So... thoughts? Suggestions?

Thanks!

[kestrel404]

Replace the two Swordsage levels with ranger levels. If your party does not yet have a trapfinder, take the Trap Expert ACF (dungeonscape, page 12, replaces Track with Trapfinding and adds Disable Device to ranger skill list). This way you get Rapid Shot as a free feat, and you can take Able Learner at 1st level with that flaw - between Cloistered Cleric, Soul Knife and Ranger, you'll have pretty much the entire skill list as class skills forever, plus you'll get that +1 BAB you need. The 2 level swordsage dip works a lot better if you take them after level 6 (for a level 3 stance) or after level 14 (for a level 5 stance) - you'll be delaying that Wis-to-AC bonus by quite a bit either way, but you'll be getting a better stance out of the deal.

[MeeposFire]

Also realize that by the rules the enhancement bonus from soulbow levels improves your BAB.

[Stallion]

Another good investment (if you don't mind the prerequisite feats) is Shiba Protector out of Oriental Adventures. A single level dip will give you all you need. Gotta love getting wisdom to attack and damage twice.

[Cog]

Also realize that by the rules the enhancement bonus from soulbow levels improves your BAB.
I hadn't seen that pointed out before. I'd almost feel bad about using it... but then I realized that, even using it, Soulbow is still less than full BAB.

[MeeposFire]

I hadn't seen that pointed out before. I'd almost feel bad about using it... but then I realized that, even using it, Soulbow is still less than full BAB.

It is very odd situation in general since they have never used that language before or since and it is not an intuitive way of writing anything except for the enhancement bonus to apply to improve your BAB. I remember some people saying that they thought it was a sort of stealth errata for the soul knife but we will never really know.

[Webslinger17]

Thanks for the help everyone!

[Zaq]

Also realize that by the rules the enhancement bonus from soulbow levels improves your BAB.

I'll be damned, I never noticed that one before. That's unbelievably weird. Is there anything funky you can do with it?

[Greenish]

I'll be damned, I never noticed that one before. That's unbelievably weird. Is there anything funky you can do with it?Get Divine Might from somewhere and have BAB higher than HD?

[Cog]

I'll be damned, I never noticed that one before. That's unbelievably weird. Is there anything funky you can do with it?
...Hm. Soulknife 2/melee 3 into Soulbow. Get your +2 extra "Soulknife" BAB. Retrain your Soulbow levels into something melee; this will replace your Soulbow BAB, but those extra BAB are part of Soulknife, and so might not be trained away. You now have a BAB one greater than your character level.

On further reading, this doesn't actually work. The PHB 2 rebuilding rules say to work it out "as if you had created a brand-new character" for purposes of BAB, even though they use more compatible language for hit points.

Ah! Getting your Soulbow levels drained might do the trick.

[kestrel404]

...Hm. Soulknife 2/melee 3 into Soulbow.


A soulknife’s mind blade improves as the character gains higher levels. At 4th level and every four levels thereafter, the mind blade gains a cumulative +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls (+2 at 8th level, +3 at 12th level, +4 at 16th level, and +5 at 20th level).

OK, now this might actually be exploitable. The Mind Blade class feature doesn't actually state anywhere that you have to advance in the Soulknife class to get this enhancement bonus - only that you have to go up in level. RAW, that means that you can accumulate this bonus even while advancing, say, Soulbow.

Soulknife 2/FULL BAB +3/Soulbow 4/FULLBAB +11 would therefore get you an effective BAB of +24. Theoretically. In a rather shaky RAW reading.