Does the rapid scene switching work?

[Warren Dew]

In the past, when the party has been split, the comic switched among the members every dozen strips, or less often. Currently, it's switching every one or two strips.

I think I understand why this is - the intent is to build the tension with each character, and to have everything come together at once. For me, though, one or two strips doesn't build enough tension to sustain through a switch away and back. Rather than remembering where each thread is, I forget and have to go back and reread to see where we are, which dissipates the tension. Staying with each character or character group a bit longer would work better. I think it will be even less likely to work with the book, where there will be less time to absorb each page before a scene switch.

I don't think it works for me. Does it work for you?

[KillianHawkeye]

This kind of technique is used very successfully on TV and in movies all the time. It's interesting to see it being done in a more static medium, and I think it can work.

[ThePhantasm]

This sort of thing annoys me to no end in the Star Wars prequels.

But so far in the comic I don't mind it. It isn't something that happens often in this comic. This battle in particular isn't a problem - even in the Azure City battle we could only see one fight at a time. If it was dragged out that might be another thing, but there is a new development each strip so far and a definite sense that things are progressing.

[Thattaman]

I think the technique is being used simpl to show that everything is happening at the same time. I doesn't bother me at all, actually. Besides, it hasn't been switching that much, has it?

[Zevox]

This isn't anything new - happened during their conflict with the Linear Guild in Cliffport, too. It's because everyone is separated but they all have related conflicts going down at the same time, so we get each scene in chronological order, or as close to it as possible.

Zevox

[Toofey]

I really think its all going to come together nicely and while it's a bit of a stitch while reading it page by page (in part because it seems like Rich is taking his time and making the art look nice) I think it's going to work when you read it as a book.

[Virtu]

Rich usually seems to use this to show that everything is happening simultaneously, and it usually builds to a climactic event.

[SPoD]

Rather than remembering where each thread is, I forget and have to go back and reread to see where we are, which dissipates the tension.

I would argue that this is more a feature of the delay between each comic than the scene switching itself. If there were three strips a week, it would be a lot easier to remember what had happened 3 strips ago.


Staying with each character or character group a bit longer would work better.

Except once you resolve one of the mini-battles, you're stuck having to explain why one character doesn't just go help the others. If we stay here for 5 strips and watch V beat Z, then when we switch to Elan, it becomes unclear why V isn't zooming off to help him. Unless you engage clunky techniques like explaining in a text box that it's all happening simultaneously, which is awkward at best.


I think it will be even less likely to work with the book, where there will be less time to absorb each page before a scene switch.

It works BETTER in a book, because it's easier to keep all the different threads present in your mind at the same time. You don't need to absorb each strip separately because you are getting a constant building of tension until it the battle is resolved. It's the same way in War and XPs, with both the LG fight and the Battle of Azure City, and that book is often regarded as OOTS' finest hour.

[Warren Dew]

I think the technique is being used simpl to show that everything is happening at the same time. I doesn't bother me at all, actually. Besides, it hasn't been switching that much, has it?

It switched in each of the last 5 strips except for 790.



Rather than remembering where each thread is, I forget and have to go back and reread to see where we are, which dissipates the tension.I would argue that this is more a feature of the delay between each comic than the scene switching itself.
You would be mistaken in that argument. Passage of time isn't the issue for me. The issue is that if something isn't memorable, it isn't remembered at all, and it certainly gets pushed out as soon as I read a strip set in a different location. And one or two strips is not enough to make the action memorable, at least not in this sequence.


Except once you resolve one of the mini-battles, you're stuck having to explain why one character doesn't just go help the others.
The author has never previously had a problem in conveying when two story lines aren't in perfect synchrony. When there's a scene change, the fact that we're picking up at a previous point in time is usually pretty obvious.


You don't need to absorb each strip separately because you are getting a constant building of tension until it the battle is resolved. It's the same way in War and XPs, with both the LG fight and the Battle of Azure City, and that book is often regarded as OOTS' finest hour.
To the contrary, I'm getting a constant release of tension, not a constant building.

In the Azure City sequence, there were quick cuts to different characters, but not with changes of scene - the characters were still all visible to each other on a single large battlefield scene. There was a change of scene when Xykon flew into the throne room, but then we stuck with the throne room for 7 strips before returning to the battlefield for 15 strips. 7 strips was enough to establish the action in the throne room well enough that it was memorable, rather than instantly forgettable.

[SteveDJ]

I had been thinking about all this switching myself. If there were fewer scenes to switch between, it might play out better with double or triple strips, to have a piece of each scene in a single update. But there seem to be too many in the current plotline, so I guess we are stuck getting it this way instead. C'est la vie.

[Mr. Snuggles]

It's annoying because we're getting a slow drip of updates, no more than 3 or 4 per month at the current rate. It'll look fine published in a book when you can whiz past the pages.

[MesiDoomstalker]

I had been thinking about all this switching myself. If there were fewer scenes to switch between, it might play out better with double or triple strips, to have a piece of each scene in a single update. But there seem to be too many in the current plotline, so I guess we are stuck getting it this way instead. C'est la vie.

I count at minimum:

V/B v. Z/Q
Yukyuk and Sir Scraggly v. Mr. Scruffy (may continue to intertwine with above)
Roy v. Thog


We also have Elan and Durkon but when we switch to either of them depends on when something important happens to one (or both). I could easily see a montage-esque strip where we get snippits of each grouping ending with introducing a new group, Nale v. Tarquin for example.

[SPoD]

You would be mistaken in that argument. Passage of time isn't the issue for me. The issue is that if something isn't memorable, it isn't remembered at all, and it certainly gets pushed out as soon as I read a strip set in a different location. And one or two strips is not enough to make the action memorable, at least not in this sequence.

Considering that the locations in this comic amount to nothing more than a different colored backdrop, the inability to hold two of them in your mind at the same time sounds like a fault in your memory. I have no idea why it would be somehow more difficult to remember what happened in a previous strip if it had a tan backdrop rather than a brown one, but if it is for you, that's probably your problem and not something that the author needs to worry about.


7 strips was enough to establish the action in the throne room well enough that it was memorable, rather than instantly forgettable.

I would point your attention to the last Linear Guild battle. From strips #345 to #353, the location changed every single strip. On either side of that 8-strip run, the location changed every two strips for the 4-8 strips before and after. Right now, we've only had TWO strips in a row where the location was not the same as it was last time.

So, this is less scene-switching than the last Linear Guild fight. By a LOT.

Plus, again, if something is "instantly forgettable" because you didn't see the same shade of brown in the background, that's on you, not the author.

[SteveDJ]

I would point your attention to the last Linear Guild battle. From strips #345 to #353, the location changed every single strip. On either side of that 8-strip run, the location changed every two strips for the 4-8 strips before and after. Right now, we've only had TWO strips in a row where the location was not the same as it was last time.

So, this is less scene-switching than the last Linear Guild fight. By a LOT.

Plus, again, if something is "instantly forgettable" because you didn't see the same shade of brown in the background, that's on you, not the author.

You are leaving out one big difference between 345 (- 4 to 8) through 353 (+ 4 to 8) -- those strips were updated over the course of just a few weeks. Contrast that with the current ... well, you know ... and it should be clear that it isn't a fair comparison.

[R. Shackleford]

I think it works, or at least would, if the updates weren't so spread out. It will definitely work out better in print.

I think either Oda or Kishimoto did this once, spread the scope out really wide, then went on back to back hiatuses, so that the only chapter for a month or so was almost entirely unrelated to anything.

I think keeping the readers off guard like that is an important device, and like everyone else has said, gives the illusion that everything is happening at the same time.

Don't Split the Party made me wonder if everytime they shifted to another storyline if the rest of the cast kind of just stopped doing anything until things got back around to them.

[Theodoriph]

Didn't even notice it. That's how used to it I am from TV/Books.

[Cizak]

You would be mistaken in that argument. Passage of time isn't the issue for me. The issue is that if something isn't memorable, it isn't remembered at all, and it certainly gets pushed out as soon as I read a strip set in a different location. And one or two strips is not enough to make the action memorable, at least not in this sequence.

Well, if you can't remember something that hapened one strip ago... it sounds like you're not really enjoying the comic very much (or have a bad memory). I recently returned after two month of not reading, and I remembered everything just fine.

[Morquard]

I think the Giant once said, the comic, or certain scenes in it at least, is build to be read all at once, either in book form or by going through the archive.
The scene switching will be ok then, and just be the right pace.

[FujinAkari]

The scene isn't switching at all, really. Every strip in recent memory has been within the Empire of Blood's main city (forget its name)

When you have multiple conflicts occurring at the same time in the same place, it is narrative necessity to show them occurring at the same time, since the reader will naturally infer he is seeing them chronologically.

[King of Nowhere]

brandon sanderson (quite famous fantasy writer) mentions switching points of view quickly to build momentum.
In book form it works much better.

[Warren Dew]

Considering that the locations in this comic amount to nothing more than a different colored backdrop, the inability to hold two of them in your mind at the same time sounds like a fault in your memory. I have no idea why it would be somehow more difficult to remember what happened in a previous strip if it had a tan backdrop rather than a brown one, but if it is for you, that's probably your problem and not something that the author needs to worry about.
For me, remembering the flow of action in a scene involves remembering much more than just the color of the backdrop. For me, what I need to remember is the interactions of the characters. For example, when a combat is broken at an essentially arbitrary point, as with Roy vs Thog currently, I have to remember roughly how many times each character has taken damage and how much, who has tactical initiative, and in general, all the details of the flow of combat to date. When this author uses his more normal style of running with a scene until some sort of partial resolution occurs, I only have to remember the resolution. Here, there's not even a partial resolution to remember.

Now, it's possible you are right and for most readers all the author need worry about is the backdrop color and not the actual action, but I am not convinced that most readers remember no more than background colors from strip to strip.


I would point your attention to the last Linear Guild battle. From strips #345 to #353, the location changed every single strip. On either side of that 8-strip run, the location changed every two strips for the 4-8 strips before and after. Right now, we've only had TWO strips in a row where the location was not the same as it was last time.
Not quite correct, as the first scene switch doesn't occur until #347, and starting with #352, we are fluidly following one continuous action sequence until the switch in the middle of, rather than at the beginning of, #355. That said, I do find that the rapid switching between #347 and #352 makes that combat difficult to follow as well. That's not as much of a problem when all that's going on is pretty much silly slapstick, but it seems to me that the current sequence is supposed to be more than just slapstick.


Well, if you can't remember something that hapened one strip ago... it sounds like you're not really enjoying the comic very much (or have a bad memory).
That's exactly my point. Breaking up the sequence in this way causes me not to enjoy the comic very much. Setting things up so we could stick with each set of characters for several pages would help a lot. I was curious whether it also bothered other readers, and whether it actually achieved any useful effect for other readers.

[King of Nowhere]

For me, remembering the flow of action in a scene involves remembering much more than just the color of the backdrop. For me, what I need to remember is the interactions of the characters. For example, when a combat is broken at an essentially arbitrary point, as with Roy vs Thog currently, I have to remember roughly how many times each character has taken damage and how much, who has tactical initiative, and in general, all the details of the flow of combat to date.

That sounds like you follow too much of the D&D mechanics details of the figth. It's not like the story requires that kind of things.
For example, from Roy vs Thog, what you need to remember is that Roy and thog are figthing, and thog seems to have sligthly the upper hand because roy can't find a way to use his better intelligence (the attribute, not the ability score), but the figth will probably be long anyway.

I repeat that quickly switching point of view is a narrative technique used to build momentum to a climax and convey the idea of a frantic action. And in book, it will work much better, since you will only have to wait for a couple of minutes before reading again of what happened to a certain character. Here you have to wait weeks, so it works less good.

[ClockShock]

@Warren_Dew
It would seem that the switching DOES work for most people, but not everybody reads/remember/analyses things in the same way so you don't appreciate it.

The time delay has been mentioned, but what if there was no time delay at all? (for example, you were reading the book when complete and not the online comic during production)

As there have only been a couple of short switches it doesn't bother me, but if switching so quickly for an extended period of time (say we spend the next ten strips quickly changing between all three of: Wizard fight / Fighter fight / Elan poncing about) i'd quickly lose track of what was supposed to be going on.
There would be too little happening each time to recall anything properly.

And to the above post-
if all we need to know is that 'roy is fighting thog and losing a little', we could have summed that up in one or two panels. The smaller details matter to some.

[MoonCat]

It's excellent in book format, a bit less handy online because we never see something happen, and keep getting cliffhangers. I think it will work out though.

[CaptainIreland]

For me, remembering the flow of action in a scene involves remembering much more than just the color of the backdrop. For me, what I need to remember is the interactions of the characters. For example, when a combat is broken at an essentially arbitrary point, as with Roy vs Thog currently, I have to remember roughly how many times each character has taken damage and how much, who has tactical initiative, and in general, all the details of the flow of combat to date. When this author uses his more normal style of running with a scene until some sort of partial resolution occurs, I only have to remember the resolution. Here, there's not even a partial resolution to remember.

Then you're reading it wrong.

It's completely irrelevant "how much damage" each character has taken. Roy could take 5,000 points of damage, lose 50% of his life bar, or be blinking orange like an old school arcade game boss, and if the story calls for him to win, he'll win.

Can you honestly tell me you can't recap in broad strokes what has happened?

Without looking: Roy is fighting Thog and losing, Haley was turned to stone, YukYuk is going to kill that cat, Elan is trying to help Haley, V is fighting Z, and the raven is fighting the imp (and seemingly trying to puzzle out what the bigger picture is with the imp).

And that's not counting details I remember.

If you're trying to keep track of how much damage Roy has taken, how are you deciding that anyway? "Oh, he got hit here, so he took 5 points of damage, and he has 90 life points total, so he's ok...but Haley is stone and hasn't breathed in 4 minutes, so she's got 19 oxygen points left...oh no!"

Many great authors use the scene switching to build dramatic tension. If they resolved V's fight first, we'd probably know where Nale is, or at least know a bit more about what's going on, so while Roy is fighting Thog and trying to figure out what has happened, we'd already know, diminishing the tension.

Have you ever read a book before?

The flow will be a lot better when we have an actual comic to read, and not a page a week. If it's so hard to remember what happened...why not reread the pages every time a new one comes out? It's not hard, and it's fun!

This is hardly a groundbreaking style of writing, and most people in the world have been able to keep track of it, based on how often it's used. In fact, it's used by some of the most popular writers (based on book sales: Dan Brown uses it quite a bit in Da Vinci code, and Michael Crichton in Jurassic Park).

So yes, it works.

[Warren Dew]

It would seem that the switching DOES work for most people, but not everybody reads/remember/analyses things in the same way so you don't appreciate it.
I agree it seems that it's not a problem for most people, but while people have mentioned what they think it's supposed to accomplish, few have actually said that it particularly improves their own personal experience either.


The time delay has been mentioned, but what if there was no time delay at all? (for example, you were reading the book when complete and not the online comic during production)
Having it happen in book form makes it even worse for me, as it increases the rapidity of the switches. On line I tend to read new strips a couple of times before the next strip comes out, which makes it at least a bit easier to recall some of what's going on.


As there have only been a couple of short switches it doesn't bother me, but if switching so quickly for an extended period of time (say we spend the next ten strips quickly changing between all three of: Wizard fight / Fighter fight / Elan poncing about) i'd quickly lose track of what was supposed to be going on.
There would be too little happening each time to recall anything properly.
Yes. That seems to me exactly where we're headed, but I guess we'll see.

[SamBurke]

I think it works well, personally. It's just like rapid cuts in a movie, or short paragraphs in a book.

[Psyren]

I'm with SPoD (again) - if you go on an archive binge a year from now and reread this sequence, the scene switching won't even stand out. Certainly I have no trouble with scene switches from the past e.g. Cliffport.

[Warren Dew]

I'm with SPoD (again) - if you go on an archive binge a year from now and reread this sequence, the scene switching won't even stand out.
You're mistaken too, then. I reread the Cliffport sequence before posting on it, and for me it's just as disconnected and has just as little tension developing as the first time around.

Edit: I would agree that "not standing out" is an accurate description, another word for which is "boring". Is that the intent in this sequence?

[CaptainIreland]

You're mistaken too, then. I reread the Cliffport sequence before posting on it, and for me it's just as disconnected and has just as little tension developing as the first time around.

Edit: I would agree that "not standing out" is an accurate description, another word for which is "boring". Is that the intent in this sequence?

What will it take for you to realize that YOU'RE the weird one here. 99% of readers are going to disagree with you.

Some people just aren't suited to be advanced readers of fiction, and that's ok. But don't try to convince them to dumb down their literature just to make you happy.

[Cizak]

That's exactly my point. Breaking up the sequence in this way causes me not to enjoy the comic very much. Setting things up so we could stick with each set of characters for several pages would help a lot. I was curious whether it also bothered other readers, and whether it actually achieved any useful effect for other readers.

And that's exactly MY point. If you're not enjoying the story, why are you reading it? I'm getting deja vu to youtube clips now...

EDIT:

Having it happen in book form makes it even worse for me, as it increases the rapidity of the switches. On line I tend to read new strips a couple of times before the next strip comes out, which makes it at least a bit easier to recall some of what's going on.

Wow, not to be mean, but are you really telling us you can't remember a few pages back when reading a book?

[dps]

For me, remembering the flow of action in a scene involves remembering much more than just the color of the backdrop. For me, what I need to remember is the interactions of the characters. For example, when a combat is broken at an essentially arbitrary point, as with Roy vs Thog currently, I have to remember roughly how many times each character has taken damage and how much, who has tactical initiative, and in general, all the details of the flow of combat to date. When this author uses his more normal style of running with a scene until some sort of partial resolution occurs, I only have to remember the resolution. Here, there's not even a partial resolution to remember.


You say you need to remember the character interaction, but what you're describing isn't character interaction, it's game mechanics--which are definately NOT the point of the strip, at least not since it developed a plot, rather than just being about making jokes about D&D rules. (Not that there aren't still jokes about the rules at times.) The interaction between Thog and Roy is: They're fighting in the arena, and bantering while doing so. THAT'S IT. There's nothing else that needs to be remembered, plot-wise.

[Warren Dew]

And that's exactly MY point. If you're not enjoying the story, why are you reading it?

I'm reading it because up until a few strips ago, I was enjoying it, and I hope it will get back to something enjoyable soon.


Wow, not to be mean, but are you really telling us you can't remember a few pages back when reading a book?

The details? No. Maybe you're the type who can memorize the Iliad on one reading, but I'm not.


You say you need to remember the character interaction, but what you're describing isn't character interaction, it's game mechanics--which are definately NOT the point of the strip, at least not since it developed a plot, rather than just being about making jokes about D&D rules. (Not that there aren't still jokes about the rules at times.) The interaction between Thog and Roy is: They're fighting in the arena, and bantering while doing so. THAT'S IT.

"They're fighting in the arena, and bantering while doing so" builds absolutely no tension. It's boring. Fortunately, you're wrong: combat is definitely still character interaction - especially in a strip where, you know, characters sometimes die. And the fact that that combat adheres to mechanics is much of what makes the comic interesting.

[Psyren]

And that's exactly MY point. If you're not enjoying the story, why are you reading it?

I've never understood this argument. I don't agree with Warren, but it makes no sense to simply banish all criticism with the tired saw "why are you watching/reading it if you don't like it?" Not only is it fallacious (it's possible to take issue with parts of a work without disliking all of it), it also robs the creator and community of potentially meaningful feedback.

[rewinn]

Different readers have different preferences, that's all. You can't please everyone.

IMO graphic novels are better at rapid scene switching than text novels, because you have the image to cue the scene change. (Indeed you could argue that graphic novels consist of nothing but scene changes, since each image is [with rare exceptions] different from its predecessor in either time or space; the reader stitches the story together by filling in the gaps.)

So in the current storyline - imagine doing it in text.

Roy: got hit by Thog
Ykyk: attacked the kitty - what a meanie!
Belkar: is ignoring everything.

It's just not as good that way.

[Ancalagon]

I don't think it works for me. Does it work for you?

It works well for me. What makes it appear not-working is the slow update process. But once it's all complete (online or in the book) it will read completely different and much more coherent and fluent.

[CaptainIreland]

The details? No. Maybe you're the type who can memorize the Iliad on one reading, but I'm not.

Anyone else think this guy is just trolling at this point?

[Ancalagon]

Anyone else think this guy is just trolling at this point?

No idea, but in gereral, I'd assume he does not. Also, he has a point. Given the current update-schedule (this is no whine, discussion, or critique so leave your annoying infractions where they are) it's sometimes a bit hard to remember what was 10, 20 or 30 strips ago. The context and plot and specitic setup isn't as present as it had to be to enjoy the story as it should be enjoyed - unless you re-read the previous stuff once in a while, which also gets old if you do it the third time in three or four months.
So yes, he does have a point for now.

The problem will vanish once the story has progressed, though. I still remember I found the Miko-plot to be hellish annoying as it unfolded because it stretched over that much time and Miko really had gotten old over the months that the arc ran.
When reading it in quick succession now, it works very nicely (and surely is not too long).

So the problem you can have here is simply one of RL-pacing and perception, not one of the story itself.

[Cizak]

I've never understood this argument. I don't agree with Warren, but it makes no sense to simply banish all criticism with the tired saw "why are you watching/reading it if you don't like it?" Not only is it fallacious (it's possible to take issue with parts of a work without disliking all of it), it also robs the creator and community of potentially meaningful feedback.

"Argument"... I'm simply saying, I don't get why you'd keep reading/watching stuff if you're not enjoying it, when you could be doing stuff you do enjoy.

[ClockShock]

What will it take for you to realize that YOU'RE the weird one here. 99% of readers are going to disagree with you.

Some people just aren't suited to be advanced readers of fiction, and that's ok. But don't try to convince them to dumb down their literature just to make you happy.

It seems that he's already accepted that he views the comic different to other people, in fact the first post has that possibility included within it (i presume you didn't bother reading it).
The whole point is that he has found something which doesn't work with his reading experience and wonders if anyone else experiences the same problems. (turns out most don't)

The problem is that other people seem to have treated this as some kind of personal attack and have decided that it is their job to tell Warren_Dew that he's 'reading things wrong' or that he must be 'lacking the mental capacities required to remember simple facts and/or enjoy a narrative'.

[Nimrod's Son]

So yes, he does have a point for now.
Except he's already argued at some length that this ISN'T an update issue, and that it will be just as bad in book form. He seems to think the fast cutting is some bizarre innovation that Rich is trying out, to the story's detriment, rather than an incredibly common device used in all genres of fiction in many different media for a long time now.

And yeah, I echo the idea that if your brain doesn't have room to keep track of both the storyline and how much damage each character has taken, it's a better idea to remember the former than the latter. Damage is shown by a gradual increase in little red cross-hatches until the point of death, anyway - even if we were given concrete numbers (which we're not), there is simply no need to keep a mental record of that sort of information. If a character is badly hurt, it's gonna be obvious regardless of whether or not you can remember the specific number of blows that it took.

[Ancalagon]

Except he's already argued at some length that this ISN'T an update issue, and that it will be just as bad in book form.

Yes. But I do not believe him this theory. So I assume it's a pacing-issue, even if the OP does not realise it at this moment. Based on this theory, I rambled on.

This is the internet after all. While there is a common topic it does not have to mean we all have to talk about the same thing, everyone just rambles on over the stuff they think is more interesting than what was actually said by previous posters. :smallbiggrin:

I think it's more interesting to consider this a by the OP not-really-realised pacing issue than actual bad storytelling. I strongly do not agree to the latter, so I rather assume it's the first.

[Warren Dew]

Except he's already argued at some length that this ISN'T an update issue, and that it will be just as bad in book form.
More specifically, I'm saying it isn't an update issue for me. I'm perfectly happy to accept that for Ancalagon and others who have talked about the update speed, the style may currently be a problem for them because of the update issue, but that they'll be happy when they get the books or reread it later when the whole arc is on line. As ClockShock says, different people are different.


He seems to think the fast cutting is some bizarre innovation that Rich is trying out, to the story's detriment, rather than an incredibly common device used in all genres of fiction in many different media for a long time now.
I don't see where you get that; I certainly didn't disagree with the first two responses where it was noted that it's common in other works. Someone else mentioned that they disliked the technique in the Star Wars prequels, for example, though they didn't mind it here; me, I didn't mind it in the Star Wars prequels but do mind it here. Again, different things work for different people.

I note that thus far, only one or two posters have said this technique actually adds to their own personal enjoyment, for example because it means they don't have to keep track of nonsimultaneous presentation. Most are just saying it's not a problem, not that it's a positive benefit.

[CaptainIreland]

{{scrubbed}}

[Ancalagon]

{{scrubbed}}

Well, you missed the important part of my post, I think. It's the section where I say "I do not buy he thinks he bought it" closely followed by "everyone talks about what they want to ramble on anyway". :smallbiggrin:

[CaptainIreland]

Well, you missed the important part of my post, I think. It's the section where I say "I do not buy he thinks he bought it" closely followed by "everyone talks about what they want to ramble on anyway". :smallbiggrin:

Forgive me, trying to be brief, I didn't bother to quote you on everything.


I do not buy he thinks he bought it

What does this mean?


Everyone talks about what they want to ramble on anyway

True. He has not yet responded to anything I have said, only what he can respond to the same way, "This style of storytelling isn't working here, and no one is saying it's helping the story." Although I have said that in nearly all of my posts.

Strikes me as he has no argument at all.

[Psyren]

"Argument"... I'm simply saying, I don't get why you'd keep reading/watching stuff if you're not enjoying it, when you could be doing stuff you do enjoy.

By that logic, we should never ever attempt to improve something we enjoy that we think is slipping. Don't even try, just move on to something else.

Again, I don't hold Warren's view, but arguing that all criticism is pointless is not a valid perspective.

[Cizak]

By that logic, we should never ever attempt to improve something we enjoy that we think is slipping. Don't even try, just move on to something else.

Again, I don't hold Warren's view, but arguing that all criticism is pointless is not a valid perspective.

What you fail to realize is, Rich is not going to change something in his comic because one or two guy is critizising it, which after reading this thread is clearly the case. When you don't hold a position in which you can change things you don't like to your will, there's no reason left to stay with said thing. Better to do something you'd rather do.

Unless of course you enjoy reading stuff you don't enjoy, but that's something else.

[Tanngrisnir]

What you fail to realize is, Rich is not going to change something in his comic because one or two guy is critizising it, which after reading this thread is clearly the case. When you don't hold a position in which you can change things you don't like to your will, there's no reason left to stay with said thing. Better to do something you'd rather do.

Unless of course you enjoy reading stuff you don't enjoy, but that's something else.

Unless, of course, it gets better after the bit you don't like finishes. I have a TV show I enjoy watching, every season there is one episode they do in a way that I really don't like, but it would be stupid of me to just suddenly stop watching the show because at that point in time I didn't enjoy it. If after that episode came another I didn't like, and then another, and then another, there would be cause to leave, but not after only one.

The OP doesn't like the way the current story arc, or episode, is being presented, but that doesn't mean he won't enjoy the next one, or the one after that. It would rather stupid and impulsive for him to just quit reading in the middle of said arc without waiting to see if the next part is as good as the entire rest of the strip was.

And I don't believe he has asked Rich to change, he has inquired as to whether or not other readers agree with him, which is sort of what these forums are for right? Discussing your thoughts and feelings about the comic.

[sims796]

I gotta agree with Warren, to a degree. This scene swaping back & forth is getting annoying. I mean, it all comes down to opinion, really.

But it's probably because the lack of updates that we've been having, like everyone else said. About 2, maybe 3 per month. It makes this arc seem particularly long and drawn out. As much as I'm enjoying the ride, I want it to end.

EDIT:


Unless, of course, it gets better after the bit you don't like finishes. I have a TV show I enjoy watching, every season there is one episode they do in a way that I really don't like, but it would be stupid of me to just suddenly stop watching the show because at that point in time I didn't enjoy it. If after that episode came another I didn't like, and then another, and then another, there would be cause to leave, but not after only one.

The OP doesn't like the way the current story arc, or episode, is being presented, but that doesn't mean he won't enjoy the next one, or the one after that. It would rather stupid and impulsive for him to just quit reading in the middle of said arc without waiting to see if the next part is as good as the entire rest of the strip was.

And I don't believe he has asked Rich to change, he has inquired as to whether or not other readers agree with him, which is sort of what these forums are for right? Discussing your thoughts and feelings about the comic.

I love this post. I really, really do. Not everyone is a hardcore Rich fanboy who holds everything he does as golden. In this case, it just happens that the readers doesn't* share his opinion. That does not make his opinion invalid, as we aren't arguing fact. Just because he dislikes how this is going, doesn't mean that he wants to stop reading. Most importantly, he probably would like Rich to change how the comic is going. There were plently of times where I wished that, but that doesn't meant we are demanding him to change.

*Reader's doesn't share his opinion? That does not sound grammatically correct.

[rekuu]

Yes, it works- because they're all in the same city, having the same battle.

If they were miles apart, or dealing with different plot lines, then a slower switching would be used.

[dps]

{{scrubbed}}

It's not a matter of helping or not helping the story so much as, given the particular story being told and the medium it's being told in, I don't see how else you'd tell it without goint for a Rashomon effect, which would probably only work if you did it from the start of the comic. Anything else would, for example, make it seem like the rest of the OotS just watched Roy fight The Champion without any reaction to the fact that The Champion turned out to be Thog.