The Quest for the Ultimate Nerd Koan

[DomaDoma]

Hey, since all those threads about plot holes and/or logical flaws seem to edge on this anyway, why not go all the way?

I guess we'll start with something I did think of by myself, but that I'm positive other people came up with before I was born because really now:

What would an Asimovian robot do in the middle of a vicious barroom brawl?

[kamikasei]

Break down. That happens, you know. The, um, how did he put it? The potentials for each course of action build up and the positronic pathways burn out.

The robot may attempt some compromise action, such as shielding a vulnerable human from a dangerous-looking attack with its own body, on the basis that less harm is caused to the attacker by bruising her knuckles on its metal skin than would have been caused to the victim if it didn't intervene. Its brain would probably still burn out in the process, though.

[Shpadoinkle]

Call the police :V

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Break down. That happens, you know. The, um, how did he put it? The potentials for each course of action build up and the positronic pathways burn out.

The short story "Liar" is a great example of this. And a right chilling one.

[Gaius Marius]

A robot with proper failsafes, like a real Aurorian robot, would simply find courses of actions which would optimize unharmness inflicted upon humans (or optimize negatively the damage?). Anyway, it'll probably call te police and run in to save downed fighters in danger of being permanently injured, and work his way up to the best of his capacities, safeguarding whomever he's capable of.

Not a real paradox, really. A properly spacian robot won't see situations based on a binary outcome between Harm and No Harm. It'll see layers.

Next question: In light of various works of Science-fiction (including Speaker for the Deads and Xenocide), is non-interference as preached by thr Prime Directive a form of interference?

Is it better to leave a less technologically developped specie on it's own?

[warty goblin]

Next question: In light of various works of Science-fiction (including Speaker for the Deads and Xenocide), is non-interference as preached by thr Prime Directive a form of interference?

Is it better to leave a less technologically developped specie on it's own?

Those are completely unrelated questions.

[Ozymandias]

Kōan are supposed to be impossible to understand through reason (whether this is actually true is another matter). In any case I don't think any of the things presented represent that, really just being "interesting questions."

[Moff Chumley]

Kōan are supposed to be impossible to understand through reason (whether this is actually true is another matter). In any case I don't think any of the things presented represent that, really just being "interesting questions."

Beat me to it. These aren't kōan, in any sense of the word.

[The Big Dice]

"If you have ice cream, I will give it to you. IF you have no ice cream, I will take it from you," is a koan. It's an ice cream koan.

[Gaius Marius]

Humph, I'll go back to the Koan drawing board then.. :smallannoyed:

[Closet_Skeleton]

What would an Asimovian robot do in the middle of a vicious barroom brawl?

Go insane and become a prohibition campaigner.


"If you have ice cream, I will give it to you. IF you have no ice cream, I will take it from you," is a koan. It's an ice cream koan.

Ah, irregular webcomic.

So...

What would an Asimovian robot do when confronted with a man who has just been bitten by a cliche movie zombie?

[Gaius Marius]

Depends what is the definition of "human" in this robot programming..



I have one: In the case of Andrew, what Law would he be forced to obey to preserve his own life? The 1st or the 3rd?

Would the 1st law be self-applied?

[Zen Monkey]

Hmm, nerd mysteries:

If a troll decker fires his weapon at a redshirt ensign, can the redshirt block the shot with his lightsaber?

Geek knowledge must be wielded carefully, for as Professor X said in Lord of the Rings, "With great power, comes great responsibility."

[Nerd-o-rama]

Geek knowledge must be wielded carefully, for as Professor X said in Lord of the Rings, "With great power, comes great responsibility."

But that was Magneto.

Here are some actual nerd koans (http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/koans.html), my favorite being:


A novice was trying to fix a broken Lisp machine by turning the power off and on.

Knight, seeing what the student was doing, spoke sternly: “You cannot fix a machine by just power-cycling it with no understanding of what is going wrong.”

Knight turned the machine off and on.

The machine worked.

[Obrysii]

A novice was trying to fix a broken Lisp machine by turning the power off and on.

Knight, seeing what the student was doing, spoke sternly: “You cannot fix a machine by just power-cycling it with no understanding of what is going wrong.”

Knight turned the machine off and on.

The machine worked.

But - this is how you fix 90% of computer problems. You turn it off and then on.

[Telonius]

If Bishop takes Juggernaut back in time to meet himself, and the two Juggernauts collide, who backs down first?

[Nerd-o-rama]

But - this is how you fix 90% of computer problems. You turn it off and then on.

And thus, the mystery. Why did it work for Knight, but not the novice? Is it simply that Knight UNDERSTOOD the problem first, then cycled the power? Is it random chance?

Reflect on this koan and you will have a greater understanding of the mysteries of computer science.

[Zen Monkey]

If Bishop takes Juggernaut back in time to meet himself, and the two Juggernauts collide, who backs down first?

Because they are both unstoppable, they run through each other and continue on their way.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Because they are both unstoppable, they run through each other and continue on their way.

How about Juggernaut vs. The Blob, then? The 'Unstoppable Force vs. Immovable Object' paradox.

(My usual personal answer to this paradox is "the Unstoppable Force is reflected at the same speed", meaning "Juggernaut bounces off The Blob" in this instance.)

[The Big Dice]

How about Juggernaut vs. The Blob, then? The 'Unstoppable Force vs. Immovable Object' paradox.

(My usual personal answer to this paradox is "the Unstoppable Force is reflected at the same speed", meaning "Juggernaut bounces off The Blob" in this instance.)

The correct answer to this dilemma is, HULK IS STRONGEST ONE THERE IS!

[Obrysii]

How about Juggernaut vs. The Blob, then? The 'Unstoppable Force vs. Immovable Object' paradox.

(My usual personal answer to this paradox is "the Unstoppable Force is reflected at the same speed", meaning "Juggernaut bounces off The Blob" in this instance.)

Robot Chicken had an example of this during a Clash of the Titans parody, Zeus gives a impenetrable shield and a sword that can pierce any armor - but he warns, "Don't bring the two close to each other - I'm, uh, not sure which one wins."

[Traab]

The real issue is, how do you know if an item actually IS unstoppable or immoveable? Just because they havent found anything that can stop a charging juggernaut yet doesnt mean there isnt anything. (And im pretty sure he couldnt run lengthwise through a mountain as one example) And im pretty sure the blob has been sent flying more than once in his career.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Robot Chicken had an example of this during a Clash of the Titans parody, Zeus gives a impenetrable shield and a sword that can pierce any armor - but he warns, "Don't bring the two close to each other - I'm, uh, not sure which one wins."

A quick lookup on Wikipedia shows that "unstoppable spear vs. impenetrable shield" is, in fact, the Chinese version of this paradox. The same article mentions that Zeus created an uncatchable fox and an unfailing hound, realized he just divided by zero, and turned both into constellations to fix it.

Also:

An immovable object would have to have infinite inertia, and therefore infinite mass, and therefore would collapse into a singularity.

An unstoppable force would have to have infinite energy, and therefore by E=mc^2, also have infinite mass (this is also impossible because there is not infinite energy in a finite Universe - entropy says the Universe is probably finite).

Apparently, the Universe decided to negate this paradox by turning anything that threatened to cause it into a black hole.

[Zen Monkey]

Immovability is all relative anway. The supposedly immovable thing is already on the surface of a spinning sphere that is moving around in the solar system. Otherwise there would be serious consequences for any D&D game using the 'immovable rod' magic item. As soon as you clicked the button on the end, you would appear to go hurtling across the world as everything kept spinning except you and your toy. Worse yet, you plant the thing deep underground and activate it, grinding the world to a halt. Of course this is a world where the sun alternates between being a giant nuclear reactor and the wheels of a magical chariot being drawn across the sky, so maybe that world is fixed and flat.

[Ozymandias]

Don't need Zen for this one, eithehr. The answer that analytic philosophy gives us is that the question is meaningless - "unstoppable forces" and "immovable objects" cannot, logically, exist.

So the answer is "mu," I guess.