Saint Template or Divine Rank 0....whats more overpowered?

[Maho-Tsukai]

I am asking this because I am planing a homebrew class who's fluff would fit having a divine rank of 0 as a capstone yet I KNOW divine ranks are overpowered. So I turned to the aquiring the saint template(or refluffed evil version for evil member of this class) as the capstone for the class instead and then saw that the saint template seemed almost as, if not at least equal to a divine rank of 0 in power level. While this may not be the case I want your opinions on what is more overpowered...the saint template or a divine rank of 0?(I am assuming the divine rank of 0 would be more overpowered.)

(Also I apologize if this would be a better fit in the homebrew forum but from the board describtion the homebrew forum says it's for already-created or in-progress work while this idea has almost no crunch attached. If this dose belong there I apologize for my mistake and would like the thread moved. Thank you.)

[ILM]

Divine Rank, no question.

[Cog]

While the saint template seems to offer a little more offensive ability, the divine rank comes with so many more immunities that I don't think it's really close at all.

[Lockjaw]

Can't help you out, but I'd like to see the saint template. Is it homebrew?

[Zaranthan]

The implications of demigod status are vastly more powerful than the saint template, but to be honest, this is a level 20 capstone ability. Who cares? Level 20 characters are THIS close to being gods anyway, so let 'em have their fun. The wonderful thing about homebrew material is you can easily compensate for it. Just throw more balors at the party and watch the fireworks.

[Cog]

Can't help you out, but I'd like to see the saint template. Is it homebrew?
It's from Book of Exalted Deeds.

[Douglas]

Let's see, Divine Rank 0 gives:
Max hp
Very high movement speed
Charisma to AC as deflection
Free alignment traits on weapons for bypassing DR
Immunity to polymorphing/petrification/form alteration
Immunity to energy drain, ability damage, and ability drain
Immunity to mind-affecting
DR 10/epic
Fire resist 5
Spell Resistance 32
No maximum age
No need to eat, sleep, or breathe

Going from memory here, Saint grants among other things:
Wisdom to AC as insight
Fast healing
+2 or +4 bonuses to constitution and wisdom
Small bonus to save DCs
Free double-size and double-strength mobile Globe of Invulnerability and Magic Circle Against Evil
Two or three energy damage immunities
DR 5 or 10 that includes /evil, I think
One or two other significant immunities, I think
Free good-aligned weapons
A few other minor extras

They're pretty close to even, I'd say.

[ShriekingDrake]

Let's see, Divine Rank 0 gives:
Max hp
Very high movement speed
Charisma to AC as deflection
Free alignment traits on weapons for bypassing DR
Immunity to polymorphing/petrification/form alteration
Immunity to energy drain, ability damage, and ability drain
Immunity to mind-affecting
DR 10/epic
Fire resist 5
Spell Resistance 32
No maximum age
No need to eat, sleep, or breathe


Interesting. Where did you find this?

[Alleine]

It is found right here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#divineCharacteristics) in the srd.

They lose out compared to deities with a Divine Rank of one, but they still get a buttload of nice stuff.

[Doc Roc]

Divine rank. Net worth of it is well past 450k.

[Veyr]

IIRC, there are rules for going from DvR 0 to DvR 1; there are few hard-and-fast rules for getting DvR 0 in the first place. Which makes finding a way to get DvR 0 without requiring explicit DM intervention is quite nice.

[CTrees]

IIRC, there are rules for going from DvR 0 to DvR 1; there are few hard-and-fast rules for getting DvR 0 in the first place. Which makes finding a way to get DvR 0 without requiring explicit DM intervention is quite nice.

This. It's not about what you get; it's about what it enables you to get.

[Alleran]

Which makes finding a way to get DvR 0 without requiring explicit DM intervention is quite nice.
Dragon Ascendant class. The 12th level capstone is Divine Rank 0.

When all else fails, dragons have something that'll do the job. :smallamused:

[Veyr]

Dragon Ascendant class. The 12th level capstone is Divine Rank 0.

When all else fails, dragons have something that'll do the job. :smallamused
Doesn't that require Epic levels, though?

[Alleran]

Doesn't that require Epic levels, though?
Can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

I think technically yes, you need Epic levels to meet the BAB requirement. However, you can probably "fake" it by using a Savage Species ritual (before reaching epic levels) to transform into a true dragon of sufficient age to meet the prereqs. Since the racial HD is sort of an aspect of it, you can make the roll to pick it up as part of the transformation, which would confer the BAB needed to enter Dragon Ascendant.

It's broken as all hell, though, and you'd definitely be epic before it was over.

Or you can cast Ice Assassin and have the deity make you a proxy, giving you all the benefits of a Rank 1 demigod (even better than a Rank 0). Which is even more broken.

EDIT: Or ape the 12th level Dragon Ascendant capstone with Manipulate Form. Or eat the brain of an Abomination via Illithid Savant. There's really quite a few ways to do it. They're just all part of the area of D&D that usually results in a DMG to the head.