Fighters Outside Combat

[Tibbaerrohwen]

I'm working on a melee charger (mostly fighter levels) who is egocentric and despises organized religion. I'm used to playing skill monkeys so I'm looking for input on a few fronts:

1) What are some fun things to say to the party Cleric/Favoured Soul/Paladin/Crusader?

2) Considering the limited skill points and selections, what should I invest in for use outside combat?

3) Not including questing and gladiatorial fights, what are some good ways for a Fighter to make money?

Thanks.

[Quirp]

to 3) you could invest in perform(weapon drill) and use that to make some money

to 1) always try to embarass him, when he mentions his god in front of other people (when he prays: try to talk to the god, loud; always ask him how his god could solve problems like digging a hole/drinking more wine/catching a bird/....)

to 2) intimidate, perform(weapon drill), craft(weapon/armor smithing), jump(seriously, jump over everything you see), Autohypnosis, knowledge (religion/local/history)

don´t take all suggestions too serious, some are not intended for serious gameplay

[Telonius]

I'm working on a melee charger (mostly fighter levels) who is egocentric and despises organized religion. I'm used to playing skill monkeys so I'm looking for input on a few fronts:

1) What are some fun things to say to the party Cleric/Favoured Soul/Paladin/Crusader?

2) Considering the limited skill points and selections, what should I invest in for use outside combat?

3) Not including questing and gladiatorial fights, what are some good ways for a Fighter to make money?

Thanks.

1
- "It would take divine intervention to make you as good of a fighter as me."
- "You're just one moral dilemma away from uselessness."

2. First, I always, always suggest at least a few ranks in Swim for anyone who's going to be clanking around in full plate. Depending on how much fun you want to have with the guy, cross-class ranks in Forgery could be hilarious. Remember, Forgery checks are opposed rolls, and nobody ever puts ranks in it. Imagine the possibilities. "Hm, an ancient holy text from my religion. Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt ... give a tithe of thine gold to he whose blade travels with ye, yet is not graced by the blessings of thine god...?! Well, I don't remember that one being in there, but it looks legit to me." :smallbiggrin:

3. See above. Other possibilities: battle instructor, guard, bouncer at the inn (if you get free drinks and your character is a dwarf, this can be worth several thousand gold by the end of the campaign), guinea pig at the Wizard's Academy.

[Laendri]

1) -Cleric heal me! Heal me! Heal me! Oh gods your useless!
-Look at me! Im a Paladin! My God gave me a horse!"
Always call the cleric "hey band-aid" or "hey walking potion"
Just like that, mostly things with disrespect will be fun.

2) Ride, Jump, Climb (I love jump for charging fighters) also take some points in crossclassed Heal, u might need to stabilize the cleric.

3) Arm wrestling in the tavern with bets, drinking in the tavern with bets, boxing in the tavern with bets... u get the idea.

[King Atticus]

- "You're just one moral dilemma away from uselessness."

Masterfully done, This is forever added to my personal lexicon.
:smallbiggrin:

[Draz74]

Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt ... give a tithe of thine gold to he whose blade travels with ye, yet is not graced by the blessings of thine god...?! Well, I don't remember that one being in there, but it looks legit to me." :smallbiggrin:

I don't think this would work very well ... based on how well PCs generally follow the "thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal" parts. :smalltongue:

[Endarire]

Warblades and Crusaders have fun stuff to do out of combat. Look at their class skill lists!

[NNescio]

...Intimidate?

[noparlpf]

Depending on how much fun you want to have with the guy, cross-class ranks in Forgery could be hilarious. Remember, Forgery checks are opposed rolls, and nobody ever puts ranks in it. Imagine the possibilities. "Hm, an ancient holy text from my religion. Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt ... give a tithe of thine gold to he whose blade travels with ye, yet is not graced by the blessings of thine god...?! Well, I don't remember that one being in there, but it looks legit to me." :smallbiggrin:


PHB (pg 74): "A document that contradicts procedure, orders, or previous
knowledge, or one that requires sacrifice on the part of the person
checking the document can increase that character’s suspicion (and
thus create favorable circumstances for the checker’s opposing
Forgery check)."

I like the idea, but if it's only cross-class, it might not work because a Cleric is going to be very familiar with his own religion's holy texts, and I think passing large amounts of gold to a heathen counts as a sacrifice. If you want to try this and have it work, you need a higher Forgery modifier. Use the feat Flexible Mind from one of the Dragon Magazines to get Forgery as a class skill with a +1 bonus. (Flexible Mind gives you any two skills as class skills with a +1 bonus on the check for each. You have to take it at first level, though.)

[Tibbaerrohwen]

1
- "It would take divine intervention to make you as good of a fighter as me."
- "You're just one moral dilemma away from uselessness."

2. First, I always, always suggest at least a few ranks in Swim for anyone who's going to be clanking around in full plate. Depending on how much fun you want to have with the guy, cross-class ranks in Forgery could be hilarious. Remember, Forgery checks are opposed rolls, and nobody ever puts ranks in it. Imagine the possibilities. "Hm, an ancient holy text from my religion. Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt ... give a tithe of thine gold to he whose blade travels with ye, yet is not graced by the blessings of thine god...?! Well, I don't remember that one being in there, but it looks legit to me." :smallbiggrin:

3. See above. Other possibilities: battle instructor, guard, bouncer at the inn (if you get free drinks and your character is a dwarf, this can be worth several thousand gold by the end of the campaign), guinea pig at the Wizard's Academy.

I'm using that line; it's brilliant. I do have ranks in swim, because I agree with you entirely, but I'm not taking ranks in Forgery. It's too many skill points for a deception that would be frowned upon.


1)
Always call the cleric "hey band-aid" or "hey walking potion"
Just like that, mostly things with disrespect will be fun.

2) Ride, Jump, Climb (I love jump for charging fighters) also take some points in crossclassed Heal, u might need to stabilize the cleric.

3) Arm wrestling in the tavern with bets, drinking in the tavern with bets, boxing in the tavern with bets... u get the idea.

Lots of tavern bets could work. I will be referring to the Cleric as a walking band-aid or bandage boy.


What are somethings I can do to specifically undermine organized religion in my spare time?

[hamishspence]

What about "Sir Healsalot"?

[Garagos]

What alignment are you planning on playing? Knowing how far you are able to go alignment-wise will help us think of suggestions for screwing with churches and such.

[Cespenar]

I really don't think it's a wise move to piss off the healer/buffer/tank in your group.

[Combat Reflexes]

I really don't think it's a wise move to piss off the healer/buffer/tank in your group.

Seconded. You're pissing off the religious guy already - he's using up all his spell slots just to keep you in the game :smallbiggrin:

oh, and get Perform (some instument) ASAP. I once had a barbarian who was also a pro fiddler, which opened up lots of RP opportunities (and money).

[Tibbaerrohwen]

What alignment are you planning on playing? Knowing how far you are able to go alignment-wise will help us think of suggestions for screwing with churches and such.

I'm thinking of being True Neutral. It allows equal oppertunity for harassing people of all faiths.


Seconded. You're pissing off the religious guy already - he's using up all his spell slots just to keep you in the game :smallbiggrin:

oh, and get Perform (some instument) ASAP. I once had a barbarian who was also a pro fiddler, which opened up lots of RP opportunities (and money).

I know I'm pissing him off already. I can only hope that the healer in the party is exalted, as my group generally likes to lean that way.

My Cha is 6, so perform ranks may not go very far, unless I turn it for RP purposes and present myself as the worst musician who thinks he's good.

[ericgrau]

All fighters get open lock for free. Also known as, "break lock", "break door" and "break hinges". Check the DMG or SRD on "breaking and entering" for more information, under "Carrying, Movement, & Exploration". You can carry a crowbar or portable ram for a +2. Under the "dungeons" section there's also info on kool-aid manning wooden walls. Once you hit 40 strength you can do it to other walls too, or much earlier than that you can hack them with a weapon more slowly once 8-10 hardness and 90-900 HP is no longer a big deal.

For actual skills I might take climb, jump or swim depending on the terrain you have to face. I might even cross class listen to help you deal with invisible foes. You need to be make a DC 20 check to find the square of someone who just attacked or cast or etc, so it may be too early depending on your level. Or dip ranger or barbarian for it (among other benefits).

[Tibbaerrohwen]

All fighters get open lock for free. Also known as, "break lock", "break door" and "break hinges". Check the DMG or SRD on "breaking and entering" for more information, under "Carrying, Movement, & Exploration". You can carry a crowbar or portable ram for a +2. Under the "dungeons" section there's also info on kool-aid manning wooden walls. Once you hit 40 strength you can do it to other walls too, or much earlier than that you can hack them with a weapon more slowly once 8-10 hardness and 90-900 HP is no longer a big deal.

For actual skills I might take climb, jump or swim depending on the terrain you have to face. I might even cross class listen to help you deal with invisible foes. You need to be make a DC 20 check to find the square of someone who just attacked or cast or etc, so it may be too early depending on your level. Or dip ranger or barbarian for it (among other benefits).

I should invest in a crowbar, if for no other reason that breaking things down. This does pose another good question. My highest roll is a 14, which is in Str. What are good, quick way of upping Str?

[Coidzor]

Handle Animal is always good if you can get the free time and the DM to not have an epileptic fit over having to deal with one acquiring animals which have no listed price.

...Of course, most of the stuff you'd do with it is easily replaced by a Druid's class features to get animals for free and low level spells like charm animal.

Intimidate, as has been said, that -2 from a bad score is less of a disadvantage once you've got some ranks in, unless the DM is going to fiat your skill selection or go out of his way to gimp you for "playing against type" or something. Especially if you can take substitution levels from Champions of Valor's web enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a)so you can use it in combat as a swift action and mess with those you're fighting. You'll want reach though if you go imperious command.

...Why hasn't the other player smacked you yet for embarking on a dedicated campaign against him? :smallconfused:

[Telonius]

I should invest in a crowbar, if for no other reason that breaking things down. This does pose another good question. My highest roll is a 14, which is in Str. What are good, quick way of upping Str?

That seems awfully low. What are your other stats? If the total of the modifiers are 0 or lower, the PHB recommends a re-roll. Personally I would recommend a re-roll regardless, as a 14-STR Fighter in the hands of anybody but a seriously experienced player is going to be absolutely crippled in combat.

To the question, there are a few ways to boost the stat. First off, what's the race? Half-Orc has a racial +2 to Strength (although it does have penalties to two other stats). There are a number of strength-boosting spells and items - Bull's Strength, as a spell or a potion, would do it. Enlarge Person would, too. You get +1 to a chosen Ability score at levels 4, 8, 12, and so on. And of course there are Wondrous Items - Belt of Giant Strength, or Gauntlets of Ogre Power.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

Handle Animal is always good if you can get the free time and the DM to not have an epileptic fit over having to deal with one acquiring animals which have no listed price.

...Of course, most of the stuff you'd do with it is easily replaced by a Druid's class features to get animals for free and low level spells like charm animal.

Intimidate, as has been said, that -2 from a bad score is less of a disadvantage once you've got some ranks in, unless the DM is going to fiat your skill selection or go out of his way to gimp you for "playing against type" or something. Especially if you can take substitution levels from Champions of Valor's web enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a)so you can use it in combat as a swift action and mess with those you're fighting. You'll want reach though if you go imperious command.

...Why hasn't the other player smacked you yet for embarking on a dedicated campaign against him? :smallconfused:

I'm not on a dedicated campaign against anyone. What gave you that impression?

I've been looking at taking the Fighter ACF listed in the web enhancement for a while. I think it might be listed further up some-where, but it's a good suggestion.

I'm worried ranks in Handle Animal might be wasted, as another character with a high Cha or levels in Ranger/Druid, or with spell-casting, easily makes the investment useless.


That seems awfully low. What are your other stats? If the total of the modifiers are 0 or lower, the PHB recommends a re-roll. Personally I would recommend a re-roll regardless, as a 14-STR Fighter in the hands of anybody but a seriously experienced player is going to be absolutely crippled in combat.

To the question, there are a few ways to boost the stat. First off, what's the race? Half-Orc has a racial +2 to Strength (although it does have penalties to two other stats). There are a number of strength-boosting spells and items - Bull's Strength, as a spell or a potion, would do it. Enlarge Person would, too. You get +1 to a chosen Ability score at levels 4, 8, 12, and so on. And of course there are Wondrous Items - Belt of Giant Strength, or Gauntlets of Ogre Power.

rolls: 12,13,14,15,10,8

Sorry, my bad. Strength is 15. Overall, with my my stats, I have a total of +4 in modifiers; I've had worse and was forced to play it (thank you DM who stuck me with a Dwarven Cleric with nearly all Fing 7's for stats; those dice had to be loaded).

Because I've had this character in the works, story-wise, for a while, I'd rather not mess with the race too much, but I'm open to templates. The race is steam para-genasi [+2 Dex -2 Cha] (I know if it useless for the character build, but I feel the need to stick with it).

Right now, including the +1 from being fourth level the characters stats look as follows:

Str: 15 Con: 14 Dex: 14
Int: 14 Wis: 10 Cha: 6

the 13 went into Con and was boosted with the +1, because primary melee chargers need serious hitpoints.

I'll definitely need to look into getting some Str boosting equipment. Thankfully, rage should help a little in combat.

[AnonymousD&Der]

- "You're just one moral dilemma away from uselessness."


I agree with King Atticus. This is -Gold-. Pure and utter -Gold-. I'ma need to remember this for my new Big Bad.

[ffone]

I'm working on a melee charger (mostly fighter levels) who is egocentric and despises organized religion.

Isn't that everyone in DnD?

[Knaight]

...Why hasn't the other player smacked you yet for embarking on a dedicated campaign against him? :smallconfused:

Its not a dedicated campaign against him, its a point of in character conflict which should be fun for all involved. Speaking of which, a nice quirk would be to always refer to religions of any sort as cults, and "correct" people whenever they use terms like "church". Moreover, due to the ego centrism of the character, doing that in the haughtiest way possible just makes things better.

[true_shinken]

Isn't that everyone in DnD?
No.



Right now, including the +1 from being fourth level the characters stats look as follows:

Str: 15 Con: 14 Dex: 14
Int: 14 Wis: 10 Cha: 6

the 13 went into Con and was boosted with the +1, because primary melee chargers need serious hitpoints.

Start with Int 13 and Con 14 and add the +1 to Str. You want to hit and you want to hit them hard.
By this level, you probably can't afford a plus Str item. Since you need more damage, I'd recommendo a masterwork dragonfang (Draconomicon) weapon with a least energy assault augment crystal (MIC). That's 1200gp for a weapon with +1 to attack and +2 to damage (probably go with acid for your energy type - your sword is now the fang of a green dragon, dripping lethal acid from it).

[Tokuhara]

-Yawn- a masterwork dragonfang (Draconomicon) weapon with a least energy assault augment crystal (MIC). That's 1200gp for a weapon with +1 to attack and +2 to damage (probably go with acid for your energy type - your sword is now the fang of a green dragon, dripping lethal acid from it). :smalleek:

you sir, just helped my Half-Orc Paladin... Well done

[Tibbaerrohwen]

Its not a dedicated campaign against him, its a point of in character conflict which should be fun for all involved. Speaking of which, a nice quirk would be to always refer to religions of any sort as cults, and "correct" people whenever they use terms like "church". Moreover, due to the ego centrism of the character, doing that in the haughtiest way possible just makes things better.

+1

I'm not trying to undermine any characters, nor, as far as I know, are they trying to undermine me. My character grew up in an orphanage run by authoritarian nuns. Due in part to his avarice and incompetent/abusive upbringing, he has a severe distaste for organized religions. Because he's a bit of a nut-job, he's convinced himself the nuns disliked him because he was infact a rival God to theirs, and parades himself around as such.
Ironically, he would likely have no problem with cults. He may very well view them as grass-roots rebellions against established religious organizations.


No.


Start with Int 13 and Con 14 and add the +1 to Str. You want to hit and you want to hit them hard.
By this level, you probably can't afford a plus Str item. Since you need more damage, I'd recommendo a masterwork dragonfang (Draconomicon) weapon with a least energy assault augment crystal (MIC). That's 1200gp for a weapon with +1 to attack and +2 to damage (probably go with acid for your energy type - your sword is now the fang of a green dragon, dripping lethal acid from it).

I done the stat switch. It is a far better idea. I also made my weapon a dragonfang weapon, cause it's just a cool idea. Thanks.

[Tvtyrant]

Get a sunder spike and sunder everything in sight, that or an adamant weapon. "You hear sounds through the wall." "I begin to sunder my way through the wall." "The dungeon runs deep lad, and is filled with monsters that would drive you mad!" "I begin to sunder my way straightdown through the ground, making a sunder attempt per turn."

[Sir_Chivalry]

Handle Animal is always good if you can get the free time and the DM to not have an epileptic fit over having to deal with one acquiring animals which have no listed price.

Hi Coidzor. I'm Sir_Chivalry. Among the many things I am in real life, I am Tibbaerrohwen's DM, and an epileptic since infancy. How's your foot tasting?

To answer give my opinion on these things, training animals is a good way to pass the time, but it really depends on if you want the commoners to know you as Monty the master of animal husbandry or as Monty the somthing else. Possible options abound, and really it's up to you. Profession is always fun for if you don't have an idea, such as cook, midwife, massuese, etc.

I find a good idea is to think what your character would have been taught besides fighting. Everyone has skills. Is he just really good at basic training and fighting and military drills? Climb, Jump, Swim and Perform (weapon drill) are probably for the best. Did the nuns who raised him make him work with the animals (Handle Animal), sing in a choir (Perform (sing)), memorize his textbooks (Knowledge of some sort), etc.

[Thurbane]

If you take the Thug variant from UA, you swap out medium and heavy armor prof, and your 1st bonus feat, to get 4 skills/level and a slightly expanded skill list. If you take Able Learner and a dip into Rogue or Factotum (or invest into feats that give you other skills as class skills), you can still be a decent skill monkey (and/or pick up OOC skills) and warrior. You can always regain armor prof by spending feats (not recommended) or a dip into a class or PrC that gets them.

Just a thought.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

Hi Coidzor. I'm Sir_Chivalry. Among the many things I am in real life, I am Tibbaerrohwen's DM, and an epileptic since infancy. How's your foot tasting?

To answer give my opinion on these things, training animals is a good way to pass the time, but it really depends on if you want the commoners to know you as Monty the master of animal husbandry or as Monty the somthing else. Possible options abound, and really it's up to you. Profession is always fun for if you don't have an idea, such as cook, midwife, massuese, etc.

I find a good idea is to think what your character would have been taught besides fighting. Everyone has skills. Is he just really good at basic training and fighting and military drills? Climb, Jump, Swim and Perform (weapon drill) are probably for the best. Did the nuns who raised him make him work with the animals (Handle Animal), sing in a choir (Perform (sing)), memorize his textbooks (Knowledge of some sort), etc.

Well, with the build, I will be taking some ranks in knowledges, because they would have been taught and "know thy enemy".
I'm still trying to figure out a good profession skill, but he would have had to work at some point in his life doing something other than killing things. Considering his mannerisms, I don't hink midwife would be a good idea: "Don't worry, you don't know me but I'm Monty, God of victory, fate and awesomeness. If this doesn't work, I'm a God; the Lord giveth darling".


If you take the Thug variant from UA, you swap out medium and heavy armor prof, and your 1st bonus feat, to get 4 skills/level and a slightly expanded skill list. If you take Able Learner and a dip into Rogue or Factotum (or invest into feats that give you other skills as class skills), you can still be a decent skill monkey (and/or pick up OOC skills) and warrior. You can always regain armor prof by spending feats (not recommended) or a dip into a class or PrC that gets them.

Just a thought.

It's a good idea, but I'm already very feat heavy and I'm used to playing skill monkeys. I haven't played a kill-bot in quite a while and I am looking forward to getting away from the skill monkeyness for a little bit.