If Chain Breaks, You All Die!

[Dralnu]

Warning: video link has gore and excessive violence. It's also a spoiler.

So I was playing God of War 3 recently and this one fight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qjtde3kbrCM&feature=relmfu) (go to 2:46) struck me as something awesome to recreate as a DnD encounter.

Here's my idea: The only way that the party is going to cross this huge chasm is to ride a platform that is being suspended by a large iron chain. On both sides of the chasm is a lever mechanism that moves the platform to the other side. At least one party member has to stay back and operate the lever so that the rest of the party can bring him across after they reach the other side.

Then it gets more interesting. Waiting on the other side of the chasm are two summoners with Invisibility Sphere and a couple archers. As soon as the party's platform reaches the halfway point, the archers start raining down flaming arrows while the summoners start summon (INSERT MONSTER) onto their platform. These summoned monsters start hacking away at the chain supporting the platform. If they get a couple good hits in, the chain breaks, and the party plummets to their horrible doom.

My question is, what summoned monster is suitable to break a large iron chain after a couple swings? I want to use this scenario for both a level 3 and level 9 group.

[Retech]

Issue: Every decent party has fly by level 9 and some might have that capability even by level 3.

[Kaeso]

Issue: Every decent party has fly by level 9 and some might have that capability even by level 3.

Level 3? Please elaborate.

[Dralnu]

Issue: Every decent party has fly by level 9 and some might have that capability even by level 3.

That problem won't occur in either of my groups. Even if it did, I'm sure there are DM options available for each specific group to ensure that the platform is the only reliable way to cross.

[Boci]

Level 3? Please elaborate.

Without TO, off the top of my head: alter self (powerful, but not neccisarily broken, specially if the enemy has invisibility sphere), optimized jump checks (depends how wide the gap is), race/template with the flight ability (there are quite a few, and they character may be able to take each PC across the chasm, although obviously they will be paying, most likely LA).


That problem won't occur in either of my groups.

Your 9th level PCs cannot fly?


Even if it did, I'm sure there are DM options available for each specific group to ensure that the platform is the only reliable way to cross.

As long as you aren't railroading. Also beware that if you describe the set up in such a way that makes it obvious flying isn't an option, the PCs will know its a trap.

As for the trap, do the mage's have to be summoners? Some sonic spells could do serious damage to the chains. And how are they going to have invisibility sphere at level 3? Whats the CR of the encounter supose to be, before enviroment is considered?

[Dralnu]

Only one PC in my 9th level campaign can fly. The party makeup is the one in my evil campaign (see link). The one with flight will likely operate the lever.

The level 3 group won't likely have access to flight. If they somehow manage to make it over the chasm without the aid of the platform, so be it.


As for the trap, do the mage's have to be summoners? Some sonic spells could do serious damage to the chains. And how are they going to have invisibility sphere at level 3? Whats the CR of the encounter supose to be, before enviroment is considered?

I'd rather some sort of creature be the one to cut down the chains so the PCs can actively try and stop that from happening. The PCs have less options in stopping sonic spells being cast from afar.

The archers will be level 1 and the summoners will be at a level convenient to carry out my plan. Scrolls are usable here, so any NPC capable of cranking out some decent caster level checks (or UMD) can cast the Invisibility Sphere scroll and whatever suitable creature without having to be level 5.

So let's say:
4x lvl 1 archers
2x lvl 2-3 summoners
EL 6-7?

[Boci]

Only one PC in my 9th level campaign can fly. The party makeup is the one in my evil campaign (see link). The one with flight will likely operate the lever.

The level 3 group won't likely have access to flight. If they somehow manage to make it over the chasm without the aid of the platform, so be it.

The flying character wouldn't think/be willing to carry the others across?




I'd rather some sort of creature be the one to cut down the chains so the PCs can actively try and stop that from happening. The PCs have less options in stopping sonic spells being cast from afar.

The archers will be level 1 and the summoners will be at a level convenient to carry out my plan. Scrolls are usable here, so any NPC capable of cranking out some decent caster level checks (or UMD) can cast the Invisibility Sphere scroll and whatever suitable creature without having to be level 5.

Why do they even need sphere of invisbility? Can't they just be hiding behind something?


So let's say:
4x lvl 1 archers
2x lvl 2-3 summoners
EL 6-7?

Eek, CR 6-7, before enviromental advantage is factered in, against a group of 3rd level PCs? It would make for an interesting boss battle, and the subpar tactics may help to even things out, but you need to handle that carefully to avoid playerdeath/TPK.

[Luckmann]

Boci, are all your players paranoid wrecks? :smalltongue:

[Dralnu]

The flying character wouldn't think/be willing to carry the others across?

The favored soul (who has magic wings from the DMG) has a STR score of around 12 with no way of boosting it. I don't think he can carry anyone other than the halfling, maybe.


Why do they even need sphere of invisbility? Can't they just be hiding behind something?

You're right, they could just hide. Especially if the other side of the chasm is elevated and the moving platform is moving towards it and upwards.


Eek, CR 6-7, before enviromental advantage is factered in, against a group of 3rd level PCs? It would make for an interesting boss battle, and the subpar tactics may help to even things out, but you need to handle that carefully to avoid playerdeath/TPK.

I'm not too worried. I'm throwing multiple low-level opponents with a fun environment factor. It's not like I'm throwing a single CR 7 monster that is impossible to hit and 1 shots the PCs, that would be much harder.

[Boci]

Boci, are all your players paranoid wrecks? :smalltongue:

No, but their character's are. Or dead.

Its simple logic. If a DM says (in as many words) "There a chasm, and some complex mechanics that allow you to cross. No other method will work" then there is clearly something special about the scene.


The favored soul (who has magic wings from the DMG) has a STR score of around 12 with no way of boosting it. I don't think he can carry anyone other than the halfling, maybe.

No one can cast bull strength or lend them a strength boosting item?


You're right, they could just hide. Especially if the other side of the chasm is elevated and the moving platform is moving towards it and upwards.

Just make operating the levers create a bit of noise so you can have the enemy legitimatly ambush the character's with no chance of being detected before hand.


I'm not too worried. I'm throwing multiple low-level opponents with a fun environment factor. It's not like I'm throwing a single CR 7 monster that is impossible to hit and 1 shots the PCs, that would be much harder.

Fair enough, but you might want to run a test run on your own just to check.

[theForce017]

Warning: video link has gore and excessive violence. It's also a spoiler.

So I was playing God of War 3 recently and this one fight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qjtde3kbrCM&feature=relmfu) (go to 2:46) struck me as something awesome to recreate as a DnD encounter.

Here's my idea: The only way that the party is going to cross this huge chasm is to ride a platform that is being suspended by a large iron chain. On both sides of the chasm is a lever mechanism that moves the platform to the other side. At least one party member has to stay back and operate the lever so that the rest of the party can bring him across after they reach the other side.

Then it gets more interesting. Waiting on the other side of the chasm are two summoners with Invisibility Sphere and a couple archers. As soon as the party's platform reaches the halfway point, the archers start raining down flaming arrows while the summoners start summon (INSERT MONSTER) onto their platform. These summoned monsters start hacking away at the chain supporting the platform. If they get a couple good hits in, the chain breaks, and the party plummets to their horrible doom.

My question is, what summoned monster is suitable to break a large iron chain after a couple swings? I want to use this scenario for both a level 3 and level 9 group.

I really like the idea of this encounter and I am definitely going to try and put this in my own campaign.


Issue: Every decent party has fly by level 9 and some might have that capability even by level 3.

As for this issue, have the summoners have the spell Earthbind from Spell Compendium and since you are the DM, remove the Fort save and spell resistance or just have the Fort save ridiculously high.

[Boci]

As for this issue, have the summoners have the spell Earthbind from Spell Compendium and since you are the DM, remove the Fort save and spell resistance or just have the Fort save ridiculously high.

Or don't. Seriously, if you're going to bend the rules, make sure its not to rail road the PCs into trap you designed. That's going to be considered bad DMing in most groups.

[theForce017]

Or don't. Seriously, if you're going to bend the rules, make sure its not to rail road the PCs into trap you designed. That's going to be considered bad DMing in most groups.

True, won't disagree with that, but if an entire party can fly then you would need to build an NPC that could get that the DC of that spell pretty high just for that purpose. Assuming you don't want anyone to fly across.

[Boci]

True, won't disagree with that, but if an entire party can fly then you would need to build an NPC that could get that the DC of that spell pretty high just for that purpose. Assuming you don't want anyone to fly across.

Depends on how active the ability is. If its limited, just have three such chasm in a row, each time altering the mechanics slightly and have the ambush occur at the third.

If the flight is constant a solution would be harder, but you should still be able to come up with a more elegent solution than a cheating NPC.

[NNescio]

True, won't disagree with that, but if an entire party can fly then you would need to build an NPC that could get that the DC of that spell pretty high just for that purpose. Assuming you don't want anyone to fly across.

Strong wind currents. Preferably downwards. Done. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_mine)

[theForce017]

Depends on how active the ability is. If its limited, just have three such chasm in a row, each time altering the mechanics slightly and have the ambush occur at the third.

If the flight is constant a solution would be harder, but you should still be able to come up with a more elegent solution than a cheating NPC.

The multiple chasms is a good idea and I totally agree with you on the fact that as a DM you should follow the rules as the players do. As for the NPC though, try to optimize him/her for the mere purpose of casting the spell Earthbind. Use feats such as Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Heighten Spell.

[theForce017]

Strong wind currents. Preferably downwards. Done. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_mine)

Creative! :elan:

[Runestar]

Is there a spell which lets you summon a rust monster? :smallamused:

[suszterpatt]

Is there a spell which lets you summon a rust monster? :smallamused:
Rust monster was the first thing that came to my mind too, and its description is such that you wouldn't have to worry about it going after your PC's loot instead of the chain (prefers ferrous metals, targets the largest metal object nearby).

You can have a disposable caster teleport in along with it, then pop back out (or perhaps engage the party/assist the rustie, as you see fit).

[Retech]

Well I play mainly Pathfinder, and my GM uses the guidelines for LA using templates, so with that, you can take negative LA templates that cancels out positive. Always easy to have a young, advanced, perpetually drunk, celestial.

Also, there are some monstrous PC races (Strix comes to mind) that starts out with a fly speed.

The party that I play with is always prepared, so we usually stock some sort of jumping potion or flight potion.

[Bhaakon]

Rust monster was the first thing that came to my mind too, and its description is such that you wouldn't have to worry about it going after your PC's loot instead of the chain (prefers ferrous metals, targets the largest metal object nearby).

You can have a disposable caster teleport in along with it, then pop back out (or perhaps engage the party/assist the rustie, as you see fit).

I thought that as well, but it rusts a 10' cube of metal with a single hit. If PCs don't drop it before its first attack, they're falling.

[suszterpatt]

I thought that as well, but it rusts a 10' cube of metal with a single hit. If PCs don't drop it before its first attack, they're falling.
Two solutions:

1) The SRD says (emphasis mine):


The touch can destroy up to a 10-foot cube of metal instantly.
I read this as "can, but doesn't have to".


2) Simply have several chains holding up the platform, so that the rustie has to attack each one individually. The platform falls only after X chains have been rusted. Even if the rustie destroys a chain every turn, this gives X turns for your PCs to eliminate it. More if they can get it held/paralyzed/tripped/stunned/whatever.

[ericgrau]

Issue: Every decent party has fly by level 9 and some might have that capability even by level 3.
Unless they're psychic or they have a sorcerer they won't have enough for the whole party. Feather fall, maybe, but not fly. But even then at level 9 there might not yet be many encounters where it helps, especially if they like indoor dungeons, and they might rightly select another spell instead.

[Tokuhara]

I love the Downward Gust idea. This makes it so the PCs can't "Cheat" their way out of the rather crappy situation. Plus, it adds a bit of the environment to the whole experience. You know, you're in a mine where the McGuffin is being held, guarded by three devices of lethal cunning. As you enter the mine, you can hear the winds howling in the mine, and ironically, no bats. Etc...

[theForce017]

I love the Downward Gust idea. This makes it so the PCs can't "Cheat" their way out of the rather crappy situation. Plus, it adds a bit of the environment to the whole experience. You know, you're in a mine where the McGuffin is being held, guarded by three devices of lethal cunning. As you enter the mine, you can hear the winds howling in the mine, and ironically, no bats. Etc...

(Not targeting you, Tokuhara, but everyone) :smalltongue:
Would this wind in the chasm effect the archers and their arrows? Don't know how this would work if you are actually going to use archers.

[Tokuhara]

(Not targeting you, Tokuhara, but everyone) :smalltongue:
Would this wind in the chasm effect the archers and their arrows? Don't know how this would work if you are actually going to use archers.

The archers have a special magic property on their bows which creates a "slipstream" for the arrow to follow to the intended target? Remember: he's the DM and magic can do anything

[Boci]

The archers have a special magic property on their bows which creates a "slipstream" for the arrow to follow to the intended target? Remember: he's the DM and magic can do anything

Or just make them warlocks.

[Djekar]

Alternatively the "archers" could be using Magic Missile or some other spell rather than bows, to take advantage of the fact that the PC's can neither fly nor return fire. Magic does do anything after all.

Dang, swordsage'd!

[NichG]

An alternative, higher level version of this that doesn't have the Fly issues could be:

The party is on some other plane or in some really weird place. The ambient environment is incredibly lethal (perhaps it deals 2 negative levels per round of exposure or something really awful like that). However, the people who have built their fortress here have built various protective bubbles that keep out the environment. Between buildings, they have a flying tram that has four field emitters. Everything is really large scale, thousands of feet, so Dimension Door isn't an option - you'd need a straight out Teleport to just avoid it.

I'd say that'd work up to level 8 or so. At level 9, you're likely to have someone with Teleport in the party.

[theForce017]

Alternatively the "archers" could be using Magic Missile or some other spell rather than bows, to take advantage of the fact that the PC's can neither fly nor return fire. Magic does do anything after all.

Dang, swordsage'd!

Good call because any low level sorc/wiz can cast magic missile! :smallsmile:

[Ernir]

Level 3? Please elaborate.

Alter Self into a form with wings. Might be difficult depending on your creature type and splatbook availability.
Levitate, level 2 Sor/Wiz spell. Bring a grappling hook.
Master Air, level 2 Druid spell. Rounds/level duration, 90' fly speed. Spell Compendium.
Amber Amulet of Vermin: Giant Vasp. Magic Item Compendium.
Swift Fly, level 2 Sor/Wiz spell. As the Fly spell, but swift action casting time and lasts for only for one round.

[Retech]

And that's not even moving into the area of semi-cheese. :P

[Greenish]

Alter Self into a form with wings. Might be difficult depending on your creature type and splatbook availability.
Levitate, level 2 Sor/Wiz spell. Bring a grappling hook.
Master Air, level 2 Druid spell. Rounds/level duration, 90' fly speed. Spell Compendium.
Amber Amulet of Vermin: Giant Vasp. Magic Item Compendium.
Swift Fly, level 2 Sor/Wiz spell. As the Fly spell, but swift action casting time and lasts for only for one round.Animal Devotion. 40' fly speed, 10 rounds a pop.