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View Full Version : Curious about Exalted - need a bit of guidance!



Freylorn
2011-05-25, 08:41 PM
Good evening, fellow Playgrounders!

Exalted is something I keep reading about on these here boards, and every time I do, it sounds pretty awesomely over-the-top. So I have a few questions, hopefully easy ones to answer:

1) What book(s) would be needed? (Different editions? Single-book system a la Shadowrun, or MM/DMG/PHB a la D&D? Etc.)

2) Does it require the use of minis or a grid? If not absolutely required, are they still a massive amount of help?

3) How difficult is it to learn? Is it something the rest of my group would be able to pick up decently if I have the only book and show/teach them before character creation?

Thank you very much for your time, and I look forward to any answers I get!

Kylarra
2011-05-25, 08:54 PM
1)You'll need at least the Core book (2nd edition) to run the base game as Solars. Subsequent "Manuals of Exalted Power:<Other Exalt type>" are useful for statting antagonist/allies or playing as that exalt type, but aren't necessary for play. Scroll of the monk for martial arts, Oadenol's Codex for artifacts, Black/White Treatise for Sorceries, and so on.

2) Grid/Minis are unnecessary. They might actually bog down play due to the way movement is handled.

3) The basic system is relatively easy to teach, but actually getting into building characters and charm usage well... you could spend a whole session, if not more, just explaining character building and trying to get people to parse the options. I highly recommend pregenerated characters or using something like Return to the Tomb of 5 Corners (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=3643&it=1) to get your feet wet and once they're somewhat familiar, you can do some sort of retraining/rebuild or just make new characters.

TheOOB
2011-05-25, 10:25 PM
Good evening, fellow Playgrounders!

Exalted is something I keep reading about on these here boards, and every time I do, it sounds pretty awesomely over-the-top. So I have a few questions, hopefully easy ones to answer:

1) What book(s) would be needed? (Different editions? Single-book system a la Shadowrun, or MM/DMG/PHB a la D&D? Etc.)

2) Does it require the use of minis or a grid? If not absolutely required, are they still a massive amount of help?

3) How difficult is it to learn? Is it something the rest of my group would be able to pick up decently if I have the only book and show/teach them before character creation?

Thank you very much for your time, and I look forward to any answers I get!

1) Just the core exalted 2nd edition rule book, which allows for Solar and Heroic Mortal characters(I really don't suggest mortal for PCs)

2) Nope, not really. Lots of d10s and counters for essence are good.

3) Exalted is very complicated and complex. The baseline rules are simple, but every different action uses a different rule set it seems, and there are tons of weird abilities to learn. Attacking alone is a ten step process(literally).

Jerthanis
2011-05-26, 01:04 AM
1) What book(s) would be needed? (Different editions? Single-book system a la Shadowrun, or MM/DMG/PHB a la D&D? Etc.)

Each type of Exalted gets their own book, with the core system detailed in the Core book, which details the Solars. Each additional book is somewhat helpful for STing the other types as allies or antagonists, but it's not strictly necessary. If you want to branch out and play the varied types of Exalted, the Family-oriented-political-backbiting-Japan/Rome style Dragonblooded with an elemental theme, the Furry trickster/werewolf Lunars, the nihilistic Abyssals, the mysterious bureaucrats of fate known as Sidereals, the android champions of the State from another dimension called Alchemicals or the weird Infernals, then you'll need the core book plus their individual splat.



2) Does it require the use of minis or a grid? If not absolutely required, are they still a massive amount of help?

Minis don't really help much, but a 'battle wheel' where an icon representing each person is laid on a circle divided into seven segments can be helpful in determining the action order in combat.



3) How difficult is it to learn? Is it something the rest of my group would be able to pick up decently if I have the only book and show/teach them before character creation?

Exalted is, without a doubt, the crunchiest system that I have ever personally played. Massive numbers of dice, complex timing within each action as well as many actions playing out at once, an understanding of several different classifications of "charms" (the special powers the Exalted field) that interact in sometimes unexpected ways, a huge deal of system mastery, where an optimized starting character can quite possibly defeat infinity unoptimized starting characters... and the gap only gets wider from there. it's the system that almost everyone, even the biggest fans of Exalted, only use grudgingly, and the best it usually gets is an affectionate "it sucks, but it sucks in a way I find charming".

Use any other system is my advice. Buy the books you're interested in using for setting and adapt all mechanics to any other system you might happen to like.

Weimann
2011-05-26, 06:47 AM
1) What book(s) would be needed? (Different editions? Single-book system a la Shadowrun, or MM/DMG/PHB a la D&D? Etc.)The Exalted 2nd Edition Core book is sufficient to run a game. It gives you the foundational system mechanics and presents the Solars as a playable splat. You also want to get the Scroll of Errata (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=84593), which is free off of DriveThruRPG.

After that, there are many books you could get, but the Storyteller's Companion (DMG equivalent) is usually considered less than helpful. For an MM equivalent, I'd suggest the Roll of Glorious Divinity I and II, where gods and demons are detailed at length. They are excellent books. After that, I'd also suggest getting the Wonders of the Lost Age and Oadenol's Codex books, which deal with artifacts and magical items, and the White and Black Treatsies, which deal with sorcery. If you are playing Solars, Glories of the Most High - The Unconquered Sun might also be helpful, expanding on the charm selection available. But again, Core is all you strictly need.


2) Does it require the use of minis or a grid? If not absolutely required, are they still a massive amount of help?They usually aren't required. Generally, the thing to keep track of is timing, not positioning. That said, it could help with determining relative ranges and such, but it's not a massive help.


3) How difficult is it to learn? Is it something the rest of my group would be able to pick up decently if I have the only book and show/teach them before character creation?No. I'm sorry. I wish it was more accessible, but it's not, for several reasons.

Really getting into Exalted, to the degree I would call required for a proper Exalted game experience, will take effort and interest and time from all participants in that not only must they have understanding of a vast mechanical system, but they should also ideally have a grasp of the setting, since that is as much of a tool as the mechanics.

Exalted, Solars in particular, are great powerful beings. They get powers that leave the world changed behind them, and that's a feature. As such, knowing what the world looks like and what changed the players might wish to impose on it is kind of important for an enjoyable game experience. In fact, the ST will be just as reactive as the players in this kind of game (and that, too, is a feature), but it requires familiarity with the system to allow that kind of split-second thinking.

Add on top of this that a lot of the system that's there is actually rather bad. Due to extensive copy-pasta from previous editions despite changing a lot of the surrounding mechanics it synergizes with, some powerful charm effects being way to cheap and easy to get (primarily perfect defenses) which effectively renders combat moot at even medium levels of optimisation on a starting character and the fact that some systems are simply missing (we have a Bureaucracy ability, but no explanation of how it's used), you get a pretty messy... mess. There is a revision of the core system coming, but it'll surely take a few months yet.

All in all, the system is being worked on, and it's getting better. It's currently playable, but it takes some serious goodwill from players and ST alike to not bust it up.

vegetalss4
2011-05-26, 07:13 AM
I echo that the only thing thats really needed is the corebook (and the free scroll of errata). a lot of other books can be nice, but you don't really need them to play.

as for miniatures, let me just say that even through my group play in a room full of miniatures, we have never used them for exalted.
I do however recommend using a battle wheel to keep track of time. (a battle wheel being a circle separated into at least 7 "ticks", sometimes 8 for simplicity's sake. you then place a marker for everyone in a given battle in the wheel according to their successes and then when someone takes an action you move them a number of ticks back equal to the speed of said action.)


as for the system:
I like it, and yes it is relatively easy to learn, but there is a lot of options which can overwhelm new people.
also be aware that you as the dm have to be careful in order to not kill the pcs or cause combat to be a long and boring affair where everyone just perfects everything.

Freylorn
2011-05-27, 12:14 AM
Thank you all for your replies!

It's a shame, but it looks like I'll have to give Exalted a pass then. I'm very much into the crunch and optimization, but I'm the only one in my group that really devotes any time to it outside of game. I'm trying to find a system that's relatively easy to learn, preferably doesn't require minis, but still allows for a good amount of depth and variety in character building. We've mainly been doing D&D since it's what we're used to, with a bit of RISUS on the side. But I'm tired of D&D, and RISUS, while amazing, just doesn't offer the level of depth in character building I'm looking for.

Can anyone think of a system that might fit the bill? I realize I should probably make a new topic for this, but I figure I'll ask here first.

Jerthanis
2011-05-27, 04:57 AM
Thank you all for your replies!

It's a shame, but it looks like I'll have to give Exalted a pass then. I'm very much into the crunch and optimization, but I'm the only one in my group that really devotes any time to it outside of game. I'm trying to find a system that's relatively easy to learn, preferably doesn't require minis, but still allows for a good amount of depth and variety in character building. We've mainly been doing D&D since it's what we're used to, with a bit of RISUS on the side. But I'm tired of D&D, and RISUS, while amazing, just doesn't offer the level of depth in character building I'm looking for.

Can anyone think of a system that might fit the bill? I realize I should probably make a new topic for this, but I figure I'll ask here first.

Well... I actually am not a very big fan of it myself... but; You might get a lot out of GURPS.

It's a very complicated game, but almost all its complexity is optional, so if you take the effort to prune down on options as the GM, and you're interested in and good at crunch yourself, you can probably get a very simple and straightforward system to present to your players. It's extremely expansive in terms of the options for depth of character building and it doesn't require minis at all.

You'll need to basically put together your themes and setting yourself, so this might not be the most useful avenue for me to suggest, but I'd give it a look if you haven't already.

Don't allow defects though. That's my advice. I have rants and rants on why I hate point-returning-deficiencies systems, and how they exploit human nature to make otherwise good players make total freakshow characters that can't be taken seriously... but others like them.

Kiero
2011-05-27, 07:09 AM
Thank you all for your replies!

It's a shame, but it looks like I'll have to give Exalted a pass then. I'm very much into the crunch and optimization, but I'm the only one in my group that really devotes any time to it outside of game. I'm trying to find a system that's relatively easy to learn, preferably doesn't require minis, but still allows for a good amount of depth and variety in character building. We've mainly been doing D&D since it's what we're used to, with a bit of RISUS on the side. But I'm tired of D&D, and RISUS, while amazing, just doesn't offer the level of depth in character building I'm looking for.

Can anyone think of a system that might fit the bill? I realize I should probably make a new topic for this, but I figure I'll ask here first.

There are a whole world of RPG options that fall in between D&D and Risus as far as crunch goes.

Some solid rules-medium games:

Savage Worlds (though it does use minis)
Unisystem (AFMBE or Angel or Ghosts of Albion)
nWoD (which while a similar system to Exalted is simpler and more streamlined)
FATE 3.0 (Starblazer Adventures, Legends of Anglerre, The Dresden Files, Disapora, Strands of Fate)


One additional option to consider, taking Exalted's setting and converting to another (simpler) system is a time-honoured tradition.

Tengu_temp
2011-05-27, 09:12 AM
You could give Mutants and Masterminds 2e or 3e a try. It's somewhat based on DND so your group will find some elements familiar, and while it can be a bit confusing to newbies due to many, many available options, the actual gameplay is fast and rather simple. It also offers really deep character building options and works well for almost all settings.

Alternatively, Fate. It's somewhat rules-light and requires a specific approach from the players, but once everyone gets used to it, it's really fun. The system works really well for playing larger-than-life badasses and pulling off over-the-top stunts.

Kiero
2011-05-27, 11:21 AM
Alternatively, Fate. It's somewhat rules-light and requires a specific approach from the players, but once everyone gets used to it, it's really fun. The system works really well for playing larger-than-life badasses and pulling off over-the-top stunts.

FATE 2.0 or Fudge might be light, but FATE 3.0 in its various incarnations is solidly medium. The system also works well for less than over-the-top settings.

Freylorn
2011-05-27, 03:27 PM
I'm reading the FATE 3.0 SRD, and really digging it. It seems like a more crunchy RISUS, which is fantastic.

It does seem to have a very specific setting, though. I was still hoping to run something in the fantasy genre - are there any conversions out there for something like that? Doesn't need to be anything major, I wouldn't imagine - just a few alternate skill sets (ex. Archery instead of Guns.)

Kiero
2011-05-27, 03:59 PM
I'm reading the FATE 3.0 SRD, and really digging it. It seems like a more crunchy RISUS, which is fantastic.

There are two freely available FATE 3.0 SRDs (I suspect you found Spirit of the Century, which is pulp; the other is Diaspora which is hard-ish sci-fi), which are specific to their genres. There is no general FATE 3.0, though Strands is generic.

Be warned, SotC's method of handling Stress is pretty slow and boring, almost everyone uses an alternative method. None of the later games use the same one, either.


It does seem to have a very specific setting, though. I was still hoping to run something in the fantasy genre - are there any conversions out there for something like that? Doesn't need to be anything major, I wouldn't imagine - just a few alternate skill sets (ex. Archery instead of Guns.)

It's ridiculously easy to tweak FATE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116018), it's an incredibly robust system. Changing the Skills to suit is one of the first things you do in any adaptation/conversion.

If you want fantasy specifically, you're probably better off buying Legends of Anglerre (or Strands of Fate - see free preview (http://www.voidstar.me/storage/Strands%20of%20Fate%20Preview.pdf)) than doing all the work to hack SotC to fit. Unless you enjoy tinkering with systems, that is.

Freylorn
2011-05-27, 04:12 PM
I had indeed found SotC - just got up to the chapter detailing the various Skills.

I can see where Stress might have been slow-going, but I was going to wait and see it in practice to see if that was really the case. Seems it is. I'll definitely give Strands of Fate and Legends of Anglerre a look-see. Are those both still FATE 3.0 base? That is, will most of the stuff I've been reading in SotC still apply?

Kiero
2011-05-27, 04:23 PM
I had indeed found SotC - just got up to the chapter detailing the various Skills.

I can see where Stress might have been slow-going, but I was going to wait and see it in practice to see if that was really the case. Seems it is. I'll definitely give Strands of Fate and Legends of Anglerre a look-see. Are those both still FATE 3.0 base? That is, will most of the stuff I've been reading in SotC still apply?

The game designers themselves admitted the default method of Stress didn't work terribly well, and recommended lots of alternatives. The majority of groups who played SotC for any length of time changed it, and my own experience with it confirmed that it's pretty dull. Waiting to see it in practise has the potential of souring people on the system without realising there are better ways of handling conflicts. It can be that poisonous, for me it made conflicts tedious and drawn out, which is not what you want for the main part of the system.

Yes they're all still FATE 3.0 as a base. SoF and LoA are broadly similar, but not the same as SotC; none of the FATE 3.0 games are identical mechanically or otherwise. As a general rule, all are developments off SotC's foundation. Here's a table comparing the various incarnations along different metrics (http://evilhat.wikidot.com/comparison-of-various-versions-of-fate).

SoF is the most different of them, but with call-backs to things your players might be more familiar with (it uses Abilities, rather than Skills, for example). It's also the easiest to read, IMO.

The stuff you're reading won't be unfamiliar (and LoA follows the same format/layout), but there are subtle differences. LoA uses a much better (IMO) method of handling Stress, and SoF is a toolkit giving you four different methods to tailor to suit.

Freylorn
2011-05-28, 02:36 PM
Just for closure, I've decided (after reading just about the entirety of SoF's free preview, which appears to be a full .pdf with pages deleted at random) to go with LoA. And as it turns out, LoA is basically exactly what I was looking for - SotC adapted for a fantasy setting.

Now, I just need to see if I can get my group to go for it!