Houserules for a D&D 3.5/Pathfinder game.

[Telasi]

I've had the idea of using armor as DR and replacing normal AC bonuses from armor with a scaling defense bonus based on BAB. I'm also considering applying shield bonuses to Reflex saves. Since the people in the Playground are generally knowledgeable, I want to ask what your opinion on these ideas and get some feedback.

First, the armor to DR conversion. At the moment, I'm considering replacing the AC bonus from the armor with an equal amount of DR. This would mean a mundane chain shirt would give DR 4/-, while +5 Full Plate would grant DR 14/-. For classes that receive DR as a class feature, as do the Pathfinder Fighter and Barbarian, this bonus would stack with that granted by the class. (A Ftr 20 in +5 Full Plate would then have DR 19/-.) The same would also apply to natural armor.

To prevent the loss of armor bonuses from destroying AC, I would simultaneously implement a scaling Base Defense Bonus. Currently, I'm thinking that I would use the worse of 3/4 or the character's BAB. This would stack with Dex (still limited by armor), shield, and other bonuses as normal. This bonus would likely be considered a Dodge bonus for stacking purposes, though I can see problems with this solution. Perhaps half Dodge and half Deflection?

Finally, I would allow shield bonuses to apply to Reflex saves against area effects, since it seems reasonable that a shield would help protect you from a breath weapon or fireball.

Tell me, Playground, what am I missing here? I would like feedback on these ideas and the effects they would have on a game if implemented.

[Rei_Jin]

With the armor as DR variant, consider instead of it giving DR to have the armor convert that amount of damage into subdual damage instead. It means that PCs can still only take the same amount of punishment as they would in a standard campaign, but it's nowhere near as lethal.

Also, I would look at the defense system that the D20 Modern rules use. It's based on your class, and it works quite well. Pretty much all classes in D&D are based primarily off one physical stat, and by finding the class that corresponds to that in D20 Modern, you have your AC base and progression.

[McSmack]

I'd look at the Unearthed Arcana Armor as DR variant, IIRC it only changes out half the armor bonus to DR.

I think adding the shield bonus to reflex saves vs. area of effects is a good idea, though it might make a good class feature instead of an all around thing (similar to Pathfinder's Armor Training for fighters).

I'm torn on the AC as DR issue. I'm fine with adding in DR, but I have issues with lowering armor values. As it stands the change would make it easier to hit most targets. Even given damage reduction I think that on average it would give melee damage a boost, since the DR doesn't necessarily increase with level while damage dealt does. Adding in a class-based defense bonus is a good offset for this.

I think a better idea overall might be to give armor a moderate amount of DR in addition to its armor bonus, and forego the class bonuses.

Of course the class bonuses would count as something like a competence bonus and therefore stack with other thing or apply to more attacks.

I don't know. I think it's definitely an idea worth looking into.

[Grommen]

The rules you are talking about appear in Unearthed Arcana. We colorfully call them the naked rules, as one could appear naked and have an AC 30+.

Converting it to DR makes a ton of sense seeing as that was exactly what armor does. It absorbs the damage. However at least I, when I do this, forget to apply the DR when I take damage. Then when I remember it's all messed up. Also if your DM remembers and adjusts the damage then you do as well.. :smallbiggrin:

Adding a shield to your Reflex save sounds kool. Wonder why I never thought of that? I don't see how it would wreck things. Other than make blaster spells a bit weaker. They pretty much suck most of the time anyway.

Wile your on it. We also changed all electrical based spells from Reflex to Fort saves. One does not dodge a photon. Sucks if your a rogue, everyone else it's better.

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Also, I would look at the defense system that the D20 Modern rules use. It's based on your class, and it works quite well. Pretty much all classes in D&D are based primarily off one physical stat, and by finding the class that corresponds to that in D20 Modern, you have your AC base and progression.

The d20 Modern class defense rules aren't very good. Every class actually gets the same Defense progression-- it's just that Fast Heroes get a big bonus at 1st level. Guess what every character has 1 level of?

[Mayhem]

Sounds like Conan d20 would be right up your alley. Conan d20 splits defense into dodge and parry, where parry uses strength and only applies to melee attacks, and dodge uses dexterity and applies to both melee and ranged. Characters choose at the start of their turn whether they're dodging or parrying, but this choice only effects melee attacks. Shields apply only to melee parry and ranged dodge, they also get an AC boost. Each class has parry and dodge defense progressions which mirror BaB, and armour is just straight DR. There's also armour piercing rules and stuff but that's a long story.

It works pretty well, melee fighters have higher ACs than every one else due to their strength bonuses and higher touch ACs to boot since it's replaced by dodge.

Example defense progressions-
fighter: good parry, average dodge
rogue: poor parry, average dodge
barbarian: poor parry, good dodge
ranger: average parry, average dodge
wizard: poor parry, poor dodge

The real question is, how will you handle magic and DR? If all armour is DR, magic becomes that much stronger. I think armour should give energy resistance equal to half it's value, and magical DR from enhancement bonus provide full energy resistance eg +2 full plate provides 6 DR against energy rather than 0.

[Telasi]

I fail to see how armor being DR makes magic any stronger. Spells bypassing DR from armor is exactly the same as spells hitting a target without DR, as normal. The base defense bonus, in fact, means that it will be harder to hit with touch spells, so that's not making it easier on mages. Saves are completely unaffected by armor to DR conversion. So, what am I missing?

BDB being a competence bonus makes sense, so thanks for that idea. I can't think of any competence bonuses to AC, so it shouldn't present a stacking issue.