Tower Shield Question?

[Titanium Fox]

I'm making a Dwarven Paladin of Thor right now. I'm building him as the tankiest thing I can get my hands on. ((Keep in mind most of this is Role Playing, I'm not trying to optimize, just make him viable)).

So at level one, I'm thinking of getting him Full Plate and two Tower Sheilds. The question however... Are those dual wieldable? And how viable would a Paladin at level 20 be that has two spiked tower shields and an Animated shield?

[Cog]

Tower shields can't bash (unless there's a feat or ACF to change that, but I don't know of any offhand), so armor spikes have nothing to base their damage off of.

[Titanium Fox]

Alright then, a Tower shield and a heavy steel shield in that case. Whoops. xD

[Seth62]

You can't stack 2 shields As far as I know. I would get a tower shield and get a at will ring of shield or something.

[supermonkeyjoe]

you CAN dual wield shields, it's not advisable as the AC bonus wont stack but from what I can recall you will incur both armour check penalties.

[Titanium Fox]

Hm. Alright then. So, I've got the Full Plate and Tower Sheild, and I'm trying to make him as tanky as possible since his Charisma is only 10. However his con is 18 and his strength is 17, so he does have melee damage potential.

Any reccomendations for getting him towards that Uber-Tank status?

[Cog]

Poor Cha is a reason not to tank in 3.5, actually. You need some way of convincing monsters to try to hit you even though you're so well-armored; that either relies on Cha (Knight's Challenge, Goad) or on getting big and getting reach to AoO monsters if they try to get around you. The latter method doesn't involve Cha, but it's not shield-friendly either.

[Gray Mage]

As was said, most ways to tank require either cha or having reach. An alternative would depend on books avaiable and how much you are determined on being a paladin. Would another class with similar flavor work for you?

[Titanium Fox]

Well the flavor I'm going for is a holy warrior, almost zealotous in his devotion to Thor (Dwarf is a must). However, he is foolhearty and headstrong (noted by his low int and average wisdom), and favors being in the think of the battle, and would rather slay his foes on his own power before rely on Thor's, for he feels that if he can not crusade in Thor's name, he is not worthy of the status of being his warrior disciple.

If you can think of ANYTHING else that would fit this... By all means, let me know. I want to be low on the spellcasting and divine "active" abilities (includes smites) based on his reliance on himself before his Diety, so Cleric is out. I don't like crusader for the fact that it's more nuanced than charge and fight valiantly. I want him to tank like a champ, and honestly damage is a secondary concern.

[Cog]

Ah, that reminds me - I got stuck on the low Cha and forgot about the Paladin. I really like Earth Devotion for tanking; you can break an enemy's charge as an immediate action, and it's one of the few Devotions that costs only a single TU use to refuel, so it's easy to keep it going all day.

Edit: To get around the supernatural aspect of it... fluff it as slamming your weapon into the ground and making a sort of "shock wave" of poor terrain? It's still not very mundane, of course, but it might fit better.

[Gray Mage]

Well the flavor I'm going for is a holy warrior, almost zealotous in his devotion to Thor (Dwarf is a must). However, he is foolhearty and headstrong (noted by his low int and average wisdom), and favors being in the think of the battle, and would rather slay his foes on his own power before rely on Thor's, for he feels that if he can not crusade in Thor's name, he is not worthy of the status of being his warrior disciple.

If you can think of ANYTHING else that would fit this... By all means, let me know. I want to be low on the spellcasting and divine "active" abilities (includes smites) based on his reliance on himself before his Diety, so Cleric is out. I don't like crusader for the fact that it's more nuanced than charge and fight valiantly. I want him to tank like a champ, and honestly damage is a secondary concern.

Well, I'd have suggested crusader myself. I think they can be textbook charge and fight valiantly, having both acess to charging maneuvers, some healing ones that can be refluffed as not magical, a delaying pool for damage to fight longer and some good tank maneuvers and stances. So, what I'd suggest would be a crusader with mainly white raven maneuvers and stances. If that's off the table, maybe the knight from PHB 2? I never played one, but I've heard they aren't that bad.

[supermonkeyjoe]

I would second the Knight class, just because your character calls himself a Paladin doesn't mean he needs to have any levels in the Paladin class. Players Handbook 2 also has some great feats for shield users so you may want to check those out as well.

[Titanium Fox]

I haven't actually seen knight before. I'll check it out.

[Mauther]

Tack me onto the arguement for level in knight. And you could ditch the plate and get mountain plate instead +10 AC

[agahii]

I'd recommend Crusader with the thicket of blades stance, the feats stand still and combat reflexes, a dex increasing item and the best reach weapon you can get ahold of (my favorite is the geatspear, but you are dwarf so maybe an axe like reach weapon for theme. After that find a way to be large for more reach.

At that point you can actually tank by not allowing foes to get away from you.

[Gray Mage]

I'd recommend Crusader with the thicket of blades stance, the feats stand still and combat reflexes, a dex increasing item and the best reach weapon you can get ahold of (my favorite is the geatspear, but you are dwarf so maybe an axe like reach weapon for theme. After that find a way to be large for more reach.

At that point you can actually tank by not allowing foes to get away from you.

+1 to this. Also, I also recomend Robilar's Gambit.

[BillyBobJoe]

Ehh, Robilar's Gambit is good here, but Warblades are the ones who want Robilar's Gambit. (Iron Heart Tactical Feat for the win!)

[Djekar]

(my favorite is the geatspear, but you are dwarf so maybe an axe like reach weapon for theme)

Isn't there an axe in CW or CAd that you can use as a reach weapon? Long hafted axe or somesuch?

[BillyBobJoe]

Isn't there an axe in CW or CAd that you can use as a reach weapon? Long hafted axe or somesuch?

Longaxe, but it only applies if you PA for a certain amount, (I think 3, but don't quote me on that.) which doesn't seem to fit well with this kind of build.

[agahii]

Stand still is based on damage isn't it? If so PA actually would help.

[Tokuhara]

I suggest wearing Spiked Mountain Plate, dual-wielding Spiked Heavy Shields, and wearing buckler-axes on your shoulders. Then find a big hill and go all Sonic the Hedgehog on your enemies. Mostly for the humor of the monsters:

Orc 1: "What is that crazed dwarf doing?"
Orc 2: "He's curled up in a ball like a little baby... What The?"
Orc 3: "It's a rolling dwarf! RUN!"

[Tvtyrant]

You can get a weapon of bullrushing, then go dungeoncrasher ACF Fighter. Then when you hit something with your weapon it lets you make a free bullrush attempt. Grab Knockdown, then charge the enemy. When you hit them for 10 damage or more you get a free trip and a free bullrush attempt, with the bullrush attempt getting the charge bonus. If you trip them you get a second hit in on them, and if you bullrush them you shove them away and possibly prone. Since you get both on the same charge you have a really good chance of knocking the enemy prone one way or another, and if your tunnel fighting using dungeoncrasher for maximum damage.

Now watch them try to ignore you :smallamused:

[visigani]

Just get mechanus gear... mithril mechanus gear and a weapon of parrying or insight.

Really, in all seriousness... the most tankiest character is a Cleric. They have slightly diminished HP... but oh my, the spells they can cast.

[Cog]

You can get a weapon of bullrushing...
Assuming you're talking about a Brutal Surge weapon here, there's a limit on uses per day.

[Tvtyrant]

Assuming you're talking about a Brutal Surge weapon here, there's a limit on uses per day.

Get two. :P I wonder if you can put that on shield/armor spikes. If so you could use your shields to do the whole thing.

[Cog]

It can be applied to any melee weapon, yes.

[erikun]

A +5 Large Shield with +5 Defending Shield Spikes grants you a +12 AC, compared to +9 for a +5 Tower Shield. The shield/spikes enhancements are priced seperately, too, so it isn't as expensive as it looks. You can't shield bash with a Tower Shield, so your DM will possibly question the logic of putting enchanted shield spikes on one.

You'll probably want your shield (and armor) to be made out of something that applies to touch AC as well as standard AC. One of the two biggest problems with armor is that it doesn't apply to touch AC (the other being that it doesn't apply to saves).

There is no reason for getting two shields unless you plan on shield bashing. Your second shield gives you nothing unless your DM okays an AC bonus - even the Two Weapon Defense feat is a shield AC bonus, and thus is overriden by what you have. A +5 Animated Large Shield with +5 Defending Shield Spikes (see above) along with a +1 Bashing Large Shield with +5 Shield Spikes would likely be your best bet that way, especially if you can increase the size of the "offensive" shield.

Dwarves specifically can enter the Deepwarden prestige class (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040807a&page=4), which allows them to use Constitution for AC rather than Dexterity at 2nd level. It's rather fun to be "so tough blows just glance off you".

If you are going Tome of Battle, then note that there are several Diamond Mind maneuvers that allow you to substitute a Concentration roll for a saving throw. This can be really handy for a high-CON character, and might fit your archtype well. There is also a Dwarf-specific prestige class in there, which is basically the Dwarven Defender done right.

[Tokuhara]

So nobody is gonna comment on my "Dwarf Hedgehog" idea?

[Cog]

So nobody is gonna comment on my "Dwarf Hedgehog" idea?
Binding the Gorgon Mask soulmeld to your Totem chakra gives you a trample attack. It's based on character size, not weapons wielded adhered, though.

[Person_Man]

you CAN dual wield shields, it's not advisable as the AC bonus wont stack but from what I can recall you will incur both armour check penalties.

You can also take Inlindl School (Requires Combat Expertise, Shield Proficiency, and Weapon Finesse. Drow of the Underdark pg 56): It allows you to sacrifice your shield bonus to AC to gain 1/2 that bonus To-Hit with any light or Weapon Finesse-able weapon. While this may not sound like much, keep in mind that with enhancements, Shield Specialization, Divine Shield, Knight bonuses, etc, it's not that hard to get a +10 or higher shield bonus, which means that you can easily get a +5 or higher untyped bonus to hit for a moderate investment. So you could use a two shields (one animated and one held, or one in each hand, or one animated and one Gnome Battle Cloak, or whatever) and only sacrifice the shield bonus from one, while keeping the bonuses from the second shield.

[erikun]

So nobody is gonna comment on my "Dwarf Hedgehog" idea?
Sounds like the Gutbuster Brigade from R. A. Salvatore's books.

That said, you don't need shield-axes on your shoulders. Just get Multiweapon Fighting and a bunch of arms (Totemist is good for that) and a lot of Dwarven Shield-Axes with Shield Spikes on them. Two attacks for each hand, plus Armor Spikes and whatever other weapons you can find. (I believe there are boot-daggers somewhere.)

There is a build floating around somewhere that allows several million attacks a round, if you want to see what kind of cheese is possible. :smallbiggrin:

[Thurbane]

Don't forget that being a Dwarf, you can tumble in heavy armor. If you're prepared to sink cross class ranks into tumble (5 ranks/10 points), you can get a +6 bonus to AC when going full defensive...

I think there is an online expansion to Cityscape that might let you trade in Ride for Tumble, too.

[Dsurion]

Thurbane refers to this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a). Skilled City Dweller is the relevant part.