ways to avoid "Vicious" Weapon Enhancement Damage

[Sims]

Can you do this with an Everdancing Weapon to avoid Vicious damage? Since its just energy coming off it.

The Vicious Enhancement seems kinda dumb, no offense.

[TroubleBrewing]

Can you do this with an Everdancing Weapon to avoid Vicious damage? Since its just energy coming off it.

No.


The Vicious Enhancement seems kinda dumb, no offense.

It's actually pretty good.

Other ways to ignore the damage: have fast healing, or just ignore the damage by having more hit points than is reasonable or safe.

[Sims]

No.

Why? Everdancing weapons can be 60ft away from you. (max)

[TroubleBrewing]

Vicious

When a vicious weapon strikes an opponent, it creates a flash of disruptive energy that resonates between the opponent and the wielder. This energy deals an extra 2d6 points of damage to the opponent and 1d6 points of damage to the wielder. Only melee weapons can be vicious.

Says nothing about range.


Why? Everdancing weapons can be 60ft away from you. (max)

So? Magic can deal damage at a range.

[Octopus Jack]

Says nothing about range.





I think that the theory is that since Vicious can only be applied to a melee weapon it only works when you use the weapon as such. I make quite a lot of use out of the vicious enhancement on most of my melee characters and making lots of attacks over encounters does cost quite a lot of hp in the long run.

[Big Fau]

Can you do this with an Everdancing Weapon to avoid Vicious damage? Since its just energy coming off it.

The Vicious Enhancement seems kinda dumb, no offense.

If you are a melee character, take a level dip into Crusader to get a bonus to attacks and damage rolls thanks to the enhancement. You can then heal the damage it deals or use the Stone Power feat to negate it.


If you are a Gish, you can use Minor Shapechange (Complete Mage) to gain temp HP and negate the damage (and then some).

[TroubleBrewing]

I think that the theory is that since Vicious can only be applied to a melee weapon it only works when you use the weapon as such.

Emphasis mine. RAW, distance does not affect the damage. If it's a melee weapon, you take the damage. If it's a ranged weapon, you can't use the enhancement.


I make quite a lot of use out of the vicious enhancement on most of my melee characters and making lots of attacks over encounters does cost quite a lot of hp in the long run.

I use it pretty often too, but healing items, class features, or spells are really, really easy to come by.

[Cog]

Everdancing weapons can be Vicious with no trouble. However:


An everdancing weapon is much like a dancing weapon, though...
Exceptions follow, none of which contradict:


In all other respects, it is considered wielded or attended by the creature for all maneuvers and effects that target items.
You are treated as wielding the weapon. You take the damage. Grey McBannert's argument is valid as well, it's simply not needed and further reinforces the point.

[TroubleBrewing]

Grey McBannert's argument is valid as well, it's simply not needed.

I actually got dumped once by a girl using this argument. 'I like you, but I don't need you around anymore.'

It's comforting, but still a little unsettling to see it here. :smalltongue:

[Cog]

*whistles* I have no idea what you're talking about. I didn't say anything like that, I swear. :smallcool:

[dgnslyr]

Well, I always figured that the Vicious weapon enhancement was powered by a sacrifice of the wielder's life-energy. Without any sacrifice of vitality, the enhancement can't function. Even if it's a dancing weapon, I'd still imagine the sword would be attuned to the wielder's life-energy, and would still be able to claim its vital energy. Avoiding the self-damage somehow seems like it would go against the RAI, methinks.

[Godskook]

1.Vicious deals about twice the damage that is 'standard' for a +1 enhancement.

2.Like the other 'overclocked' enhancements (holy and bane), there's a condition in place to 'balance' this extra damage. That condition is the backlash damage.

3.Remove the 'condition', and Vicious becomes completely overpowered relative to its peers.

My point? Vicious isn't dumb 'as-is', it is well designed at being an overclocked damage booster. The real issue is that you want to have your cake and eat it too. That's perfectly reasonable to want, but is not a good reason to call a well designed enhancement 'dumb'.

------------------------------------------

Now, as far as optimizing such that the penalty is minimalized and/or negated in practice, a source of temp-HP is typically the best choice, although a greater lifedrinking crystal from the MiC would also mitigate the damage quite nicely, at least for 10 swings/day.

[Elric VIII]

My DM let me custom-design the Greater Lifestealing Weapon Crystal to just diametrically oppose the damage from Vicious for 14 hits since the crystal can heal 50 points (avg damage on 1d6 is 3.5, x14=49).

6000 may seem like a lot for 49 points of healing/prevention, but when it requires no action during combat it's great.

[mabriss lethe]

an Elan willing to burn immediate actions and PP can negate Vicious, but a psychic warrior manifesting vigor and share pain with a psicrystal can simply make that damage meaningless.

[TroubleBrewing]

Ah, magic. Makes melee pointless. Or better, if you're willing to accept a slight downgrade for a fun enhancement! :smallbiggrin:

(I'm looking at you, Psychic Warrior and DMM Cleric.)

[Moriato]

an Elan willing to burn immediate actions and PP can negate Vicious.

That would work, but only for 1 of the hits per round. They're probably better off saving it in case they need to use it on something that's going to hit them for more than 1d6 that round, or if they need to use that immediate action to boost their saving throw instead.

[Whammydill]

I would just make the weapon take the damage if it's dancing. Since it's wielding itself and the player thought they were being clever and avoiding the damage. Bye bye weapon MWA HA HA HA

[ericgrau]

Sometimes it's less mean to just say no.

[gbprime]

I've got a variant of Holy Weapon in my campaign for the diety of slaughter. The spell turns the weilder's weapon into a +5 Vicious weapon, and refreshes a pool of temporary hit points each round. That makes it viable, but still painful, as opponents are hacking at those temporary hit points too.

[TroubleBrewing]

Sometimes it's less mean to just say no.

Ask a silly question... :smallamused:

[mabriss lethe]

That would work, but only for 1 of the hits per round. They're probably better off saving it in case they need to use it on something that's going to hit them for more than 1d6 that round, or if they need to use that immediate action to boost their saving throw instead.

I never claimed it was a good solution (at least the Elan part) but it fits the bill...well... in a square peg/round hole sort of way.

[Migwell]

I have another? regarding vicious...
Does it bypass DR?

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff: Thread necromancy is generally disfavored here.