Shadowdancers

[Retech]

"A shadowdancer can use the Stealth skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of an area of dim light, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow."

Does this mean that two shadowdancers could hide in each other's shadows?

[*.*.*.*]

I don't see why not :smallwink:

[Rejakor]

Only if they're not the same person.

So no dvati, for example.

[Jude_H]

Only if my fighter can be invisible behind his tower shield.

[Cespenar]

Though it defies common sense, it sounds like a really cool trick. I'd allow it, depending on the style of the game (fun, serious, etc.).

[Big Fau]

I don't see why not :smallwink:

Of course you don't. :smalltongue:


Only if my fighter can be invisible behind his tower shield.

It is entirely legal, by RAW, for a Shadowdancer to hide in someone's shadow. Two Shadodancers could easily do the same, since casting a shadow requires light, not other people's vision.

As for hiding behind a Tower Shield: You can do it, but the Tower Shield is still there. An invisible Tower Shield creates logic problems though.

[Lateral]

Only if my fighter can be invisible behind his tower shield.

Of course he can't. Fighters don't have Hide as a class skill. :smalltongue:

[Zaq]

Of course he can't. Fighters don't have Hide as a class skill. :smalltongue:

Who says he has to?


You need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide check. Total cover or total concealment usually (but not always; see Special, below) obviates the need for a Hide check, since nothing can see you anyway.

And no, the "Special" bit says nothing about tower shields, so the Tower Shield of Invisibility works.

Slap on a can of Bladeshimmer (Complete Scoundrel) and things get even funnier.

[Curmudgeon]

Does this mean that two shadowdancers could hide in each other's shadows?
Shadowdancers don't need to hide in shadows; they can hide just by being near shadows. The shadow of a single blade of grass, 10' away, is enough. That's why their Hide in Plain Sight is Supernatural ─ it's magic.

[TroubleBrewing]

Now that's just picking apart wording. :smalltongue:

Not that you're incorrect. Magic is as magic does.

[Yora]

Hiding in each others shadow would be a problem: Because when you are standing in someones shadow, he can't stand in yours. Shadows always fall in the same direction, and you can't be both behind each other relative to a light source.

Also, if you don't go strictly by RAW, it seems logical that one would have to be entirely covered by shadows and that would be really difficult to do behind a person of roughly the same size.
And when you go even further, you could interpret "shadow" as "shadowy illumination". A parasol on a sunny day would cast a shadow, but lighting would still be way to good to make it shadowy illumination.

[Silfir]

Assuming a shadowdancer cannot hide in their own shadow, the moment one shadowdancer hides in the other's shadow, their shadow will disappear, leaving the slower shadowdancer with a shadow to hide in.

Actually, if the slow shadowdancer is fast enough to hide in the other's shadow before the light particles can illuminate the surface the shadow appears on, they both disappear - but so do both of their shadows. What happens to a shadowdancer when the shadow they hid in goes away? Best case, they reappear and can't hide anymore, which rather removes the purpose of the whole endeavour.

[Curmudgeon]

Hiding in each others shadow would be a problem: Because when you are standing in someones shadow, he can't stand in yours.
With just one point light source, and no reflections, you're correct. Add multiple light sources, or bright reflections, and you get multiple shadows per object.

[Aricandor]

Besides, as has already been pointed out, it's magic. :smallbiggrin:

[Luckmann]

I always just sorta assumed that Shadowdancers effectively bent shadows around themselves. Jumped into one shadow and out of the next.

I wouldn't see a problem with two Shadowdancers "bending" eachother's shadows around themselves at all, effectively "jumping" into those shadows.

If I were a DM, though, I'd judge that the shadows bent into eachother and if there were no other shadows nearby for the merged shadow to bend into, I'd have them black-hole-vortex-teleport to the elemental plane of shadow or something. :smallbiggrin:


With just one point light source, and no reflections, you're correct. Add multiple light sources, or bright reflections, and you get multiple shadows per object.Add enough and you get none. :smalltongue:

I think that's the reason the wording is there at all, aside from fluff reasons. Just so that the DM can pull a fiat with "There are no shadows nearby" in a very well-lit area.

[Yora]

With just one point light source, and no reflections, you're correct. Add multiple light sources, or bright reflections, and you get multiple shadows per object.

In which case the multiple light sources cancel the shadows out. Some areas are double illuminated while others are only single illuminated, so there are two darker areas that recieve only half the amount of light. Since shadows are not 100% devoid of light, they would still be technically shadows, but they are also directly illuminated.
(Which is the reason for the apparent four shadows of players during night time football matches.)

[Z3ro]

Who says he has to?



And no, the "Special" bit says nothing about tower shields, so the Tower Shield of Invisibility works.

Slap on a can of Bladeshimmer (Complete Scoundrel) and things get even funnier.

No where in the description of total concealment does it say the object granting concealment is hidden, neither does it say all of your gear is hidden. The invisible tower shield, while amusing, is not RAW.

[Yuki Akuma]

In which case the multiple light sources cancel the shadows out. Some areas are double illuminated while others are only single illuminated, so there are two darker areas that recieve only half the amount of light. Since shadows are not 100% devoid of light, they would still be technically shadows, but they are also directly illuminated.
(Which is the reason for the apparent four shadows of players during night time football matches.)

Of course this doesn't matter because Shadowdancers only need to be within ten feet of a shadow to hide. Two Shadowdancers standing next to each other in a room with no shadows but their own can hide.

Magic.

[Luckmann]

Of course this doesn't matter because Shadowdancers only need to be within ten feet of a shadow to hide. Two Shadowdancers standing next to each other in a room with no shadows but their own can hide.

Magic.It's friendship..? :smallwink:

[Yuki Akuma]

Are the Shadowdancers allies? If so, yes.

[Infernalbargain]

Hiding in each others shadow would be a problem: Because when you are standing in someones shadow, he can't stand in yours. Shadows always fall in the same direction, and you can't be both behind each other relative to a light source.

Also, if you don't go strictly by RAW, it seems logical that one would have to be entirely covered by shadows and that would be really difficult to do behind a person of roughly the same size.
And when you go even further, you could interpret "shadow" as "shadowy illumination". A parasol on a sunny day would cast a shadow, but lighting would still be way to good to make it shadowy illumination.

Actually this is doable in physics, in theory, you just need to apply general relativity. The shadowdancers simply need to be at the event horizon of a black hole. So when light comes in, the black hole will bend the light's path from a straight line into a circle, and thus the shadowdancers will actually be in each other's shadows. Not that this will come up very much in campaigns.

[Luckmann]

Actually this is doable in physics, in theory, you just need to apply general relativity. The shadowdancers simply need to be at the event horizon of a black hole. Oh, yeah, we'll get right on that. :smallcool:


So when light comes in, the black hole will bend the light's path from a straight line into a circle, and thus the shadowdancers will actually be in each other's shadows. Not that this will come up very much in campaigns.You think? :smalltongue:

It really should come up more. :smallbiggrin:

[Divide by Zero]

It's friendship..? :smallwink:

Friendship is magic!
http://www.absoluteanime.com/yu-gi-oh/tea.jpg

[Lateral]

Friendship is magic!
http://www.absoluteanime.com/yu-gi-oh/tea.jpg

Photo's broken.