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Bovine Colonel
2011-05-27, 10:06 PM
So basically, I enjoy DMing. I enjoy drawing up concepts for my campaigns; I enjoy watching players come up with plans; I enjoy pitting them against villains in epic battles; I enjoy statting out said villains for use in said epic battles.

However, that being said, I kind of suck at it.

The only cohesive creative inspiration I ever get is for the final boss battle; the rest tends to be a mess. I'm terrible at NPC dialogue; it takes me forever to think of the next line. My adventures are full of plot holes. I try to avoid "bad GMing" habits like the plague, but I've caught myself railroading the players more than once. In the end, my players tend to lose interest and do things like build forts out of squirrels and spend the rest of their lives there. (This was actually how one campaign ended.) Basically, in DnD terms, I have a Wisdom that Elan could only achieve from ability drain, as well as a comparable Charisma.

How do I improve/make up for this?

dsmiles
2011-05-27, 10:14 PM
How do I improve/make up for this?Honestly? I can think of a couple of ways.

1. Practice.
2. Practice.
3. Practice.

No, really. That's the best way to improve.
Ask your players what they like and don't like about your DMing style. Take constructive criticism well. Don't have a thin skin when they say they don't like something. But, really, practice is the key.

bloodtide
2011-05-27, 10:30 PM
Practice and experience are the best ways. Try to Dm as much as you can.

1.Write out NPC dialogue. Write some simple scripts for the NPC and provide read answers for typical questions they might be asked.

2.You could just avoid having all to many NPCs around to 'chat' with.


3.Watch TV shows, movies and read novels. They have all sorts of examples of (NPC) personalities. It's easy enough to take any character and make it a D&D one.

A good trick here is just model your NPCs on other fictional characters. So when your playing the part of Lord Kost, you just need to act as it he was Darth Vader. Oost the town wizard is Doctor Who, Ham the paladin is RoboCop, Mayor Quimby is Steven Colbert and so forth. It's even better if you pick small characters or ones from not so popular media. Remember that you don't have to have the 'exact' character, you just want their personality. So Lord Kost does not were magic armor have a light sword and a force power...he could be a elven bard or a dwarven cleric, just with the Darth Vader personality.

And the character need not be from an 'action/fantasy show', any show will do for a personality.

4.Fiction also gives you all sorts of plots as well. That you can change and use.

5.Post some of your ideas/specific problems here..

valadil
2011-05-27, 10:44 PM
LARP. No, not the kind you see on YouTube. That's boffer LARPing.

Theater style LARPs are basically plays without scripts or audiences. They're almost entirely plot and dialogue. LARPing is a fantastic way to speak in character. They won't necessarily help you switch off between characters quickly, but you'll be more in character when you have to voice NPCs. They'll also introduce you to more parallel storytelling because each character in a LARP is tied to 3 or 4 stories that resolve at once. You'll also see how GMs are okay with setting plots free once they've got momentum, which is an excellent way to avoid railroading.

My other suggestion is to play to your strengths. Before I started my current game, I thought my NPCs sucked. They had motivation and personality, but I had trouble showing it unless they were onscreen for a couple hours. I wanted to be able to open my mouth and have the players immediately know which NPC was speaking.

So I put a ton of effort into coming up with interesting NPCs with unique mannerisms. And the beginning of the game sucked. Only when they left those NPCs did things pick up. Now my NPCs are mostly bland and they use my speech patterns. But the rest of the game is going great.

So for you and your game, my suggestion is to run what you do well. Run a Shadow of the Colossus style affair where the whole game is 8 boss fights. Send your friends a summary of how they learned about this villain and that the villain is holed up in this fortified castle. As them to bring heroes who are going to invade it and slay the bad guy. You might even be able to run each villain as a single session deal.

Savannah
2011-05-27, 11:42 PM
One thing that everyone forgets:
Play as many games as you can with as many DMs as you can. Look at how they handle various situations and think about what you did and didn't like about their DMing style, and how you can apply that to your own DMing.

TheCountAlucard
2011-05-28, 12:15 AM
So basically, I enjoy DMing. I enjoy drawing up concepts for my campaigns; I enjoy watching players come up with plans; I enjoy pitting them against villains in epic battles; I enjoy statting out said villains for use in said epic battles.These are fun. :smallsmile:


However, that being said, I kind of suck at it.Oh, that can be a problem. :smalleek: How long've you been DMing? :smallconfused:


The only cohesive creative inspiration I ever get is for the final boss battle; the rest tends to be a mess.(nodnod)


I'm terrible at NPC dialogue; it takes me forever to think of the next line.This one is often problematic for me as well. One bit of advice from me, then: don't make the NPC's head too hard to get into. If you can't identify with him, you can't talk as him.


My adventures are full of plot holes.I think a lot of people suffer from this. On the other hand, if it's immersive enough, players may willingly turn on their suspension of disbelief and play along. :smallsmile:


I try to avoid "bad GMing" habits like the plague, but I've caught myself railroading the players more than once.Sometimes it happens; the fact that you're trying not to is probably more than good enough. :smallsmile:


In the end, my players tend to lose interest and do things like build forts out of squirrels and spend the rest of their lives there.Wow, I think I'm missing some context there, but that sounds pretty bad. :smalltongue:


How do I improve/make up for this?Like others said, practice definitely helps.


LARP.I'd also suggest listening to more conversations, try and figure out various dynamics, body language, et cetera. It's a social skill that, admittedly, takes quite some time to learn, but it's well worth it.


My other suggestion is to play to your strengths.This is good advice as well, though still work on shoring up those little weaknesses.


Play as many games as you can with as many DMs as you can. Look at how they handle various situations and think about what you did and didn't like about their DMing style, and how you can apply that to your own DMing.Also a very good suggestion.

One little habit I've picked up: at the end of game sessions, I like to go over with my players about what they did and didn't like in the session. :smallsmile:

Noneoyabizzness
2011-05-28, 08:03 AM
Dming has many different hats. sounds like you get a lot of prep in there but you need to grab attention


how are you as a player? are you an "I attack" character?
how much do you read and or watch in the weeks before a session?
what do you do outside d&d that is a focuscentric role? nerves can come into play heavily.

dming practicing is not just constantly running. take speech classes, or theater. if you can handle 10+ people you can keep cool running a table. watch a diversity of things. inspiration can come from anywhere, and understanding diverse sources give you points of reference to play different npcs. if you a reader, mix it up get robert jordan, f paul wilson, douglas adams, fabian nicieza, and robert pastis.

lastly play. learn from others in the craft

DontEatRawHagis
2011-05-28, 10:10 AM
What I do is read as much as I can from different online sources. Chris Perkin's articles at Wizards are pretty good but there are only a dozen dedicated to the DM. I also use: http://www.roleplayingtips.com/

A lot comes from personal experience though. I sucked in the first game I GMed which also happened to be my first Tabletop. One DM I know never learns from his own mistakes, at least when we pointed out what he did wrong(he asked us) we haven't played that game since. Incidently he trained us to look through every single room with a fine toothed comb, except when it came to the Maze he made he was actually surprised when we went through the entirety of it, disabling and activating every trap in our path.

Figure out what type of DM you are and maybe you'll be able to help strengthen what you do and don't do well. For example, I don't follow rules very well, especially 3.5e and Spycraft 2.0. So instead I am looking to a bit easier systems to use, such as the Cortex system and 4e.

LibraryOgre
2011-05-28, 11:15 AM
So basically, I enjoy DMing. I enjoy drawing up concepts for my campaigns; I enjoy watching players come up with plans; I enjoy pitting them against villains in epic battles; I enjoy statting out said villains for use in said epic battles.

However, that being said, I kind of suck at it.

The only cohesive creative inspiration I ever get is for the final boss battle; the rest tends to be a mess. I'm terrible at NPC dialogue; it takes me forever to think of the next line. My adventures are full of plot holes. I try to avoid "bad GMing" habits like the plague, but I've caught myself railroading the players more than once. In the end, my players tend to lose interest and do things like build forts out of squirrels and spend the rest of their lives there. (This was actually how one campaign ended.) Basically, in DnD terms, I have a Wisdom that Elan could only achieve from ability drain, as well as a comparable Charisma.

How do I improve/make up for this?

As mentioned, practice will help, and is important.

One thing I have found helped with things like this is find good modules and run them. If you can track it down, the old B2: Keep on the Borderlands was excellent for this. There's some role-playing available, but a lot of it comes down to "How do we most effectively deal with these monsters?" Once you have a handle on what the relationships between various groups are (and you have to make up at least some of those relationships, because the priests don't seem to interact with anyone), the player's actions have consequences.

The module helps shore up some of your weaknesses.... it lets you focus on the fights and such, rather than worrying about plot holes.

Mastikator
2011-05-28, 11:24 AM
Ask your players about what they find lacking and focus on that.

Eldan
2011-05-28, 11:49 AM
Read books. Fantasy novels are of course good, but really, anything helps. Watch the dialogue, how it is constructed, how it flows, how different people talk. Watch "talky" movies. Really, the more dialogue you hear and read, the better you get at it. When you have done that, try writing.

Oracle_Hunter
2011-05-28, 12:00 PM
One thing I have found helped with things like this is find good modules and run them. If you can track it down, the old B2: Keep on the Borderlands was excellent for this. There's some role-playing available, but a lot of it comes down to "How do we most effectively deal with these monsters?" Once you have a handle on what the relationships between various groups are (and you have to make up at least some of those relationships, because the priests don't seem to interact with anyone), the player's actions have consequences.

The module helps shore up some of your weaknesses.... it lets you focus on the fights and such, rather than worrying about plot holes.
I second this.

It doesn't sound like the OP's problem is a lack of exposure to media; it is more that he doesn't have a firm grasp on how a campaign is supposed to be structured. Running modules (good ones!) will give him examples to follow, and once he has examples, he can practice.

DabblerWizard
2011-05-29, 09:26 AM
Drahcir Quoted
So basically, I enjoy DMing. I enjoy drawing up concepts for my campaigns; I enjoy watching players come up with plans; I enjoy pitting them against villains in epic battles; I enjoy statting out said villains for use in said epic battles.

However, that being said, I kind of suck at it.

The only cohesive creative inspiration I ever get is for the final boss battle; the rest tends to be a mess. I'm terrible at NPC dialogue; it takes me forever to think of the next line. My adventures are full of plot holes. I try to avoid "bad GMing" habits like the plague, but I've caught myself railroading the players more than once. In the end, my players tend to lose interest and do things like build forts out of squirrels and spend the rest of their lives there. (This was actually how one campaign ended.) Basically, in DnD terms, I have a Wisdom that Elan could only achieve from ability drain, as well as a comparable Charisma.

How do I improve/make up for this?

OP, you mention several points that you want to work on. I focus on character interaction in my post.

The basic points: Trust yourself. Plan out dialogue, motivation. Tell your PCs to hold on for a second if you need it.


I don't like to rely on media to inform much of my campaign. Instead, I tend to rely on motivation.

I once told my players that not all of the NPCs will have a name (that I provide), or a deep personality. This helps me by picking and choosing where I put effort in, and where I don't. It also helps the players because I DO have various NPCs that are important in major ways or minor ways, and they already have enough on their plate just remembering those folks.

In terms of NPC dialogue, whether using non-important NPCs or important ones, I rely on spelling out 1 or more major motivations for the character. Then I act AS the character, though talking it out third person can work too and that's less confrontational, but provides less immersion.

"Are you kidding me" vs. "the merchant can't believe his ears"

Here's an example: The PCs go in search of a no-name merchant in a small city. I hadn't specifically prepared for that, so here's what I did. I decide to roll for how much stock the guy has in his shop (not much that day). I decide that he's a middle-line merchant, selling mostly common wares, no magic items (which fits with the general feel of the campaign). This leads me to the conclusion that he's an "average Joe" just trying to make a living.

When the PCs ask for powerful stuff, I drop my mouth open and just stare at them for a second. Then, acting incredulous, I say, "Are you kidding me... what do you think I am, a magic shop?" They laugh and then say "yes". I go on by correcting them of their false impressions, but then slide into trying to sell them what I (the shop owner) do have.

So by determining a basic set of motivations, I can act out emotions and behaviors that I think fit the character.

This requires that I feel comfortable (1) acting out emotion, (2) acting in a way that's not necessarily typical for me, (3) and trusting that I can come up with things off the top of my head.

Sometimes I won't know what to say, maybe because the PCs ask me a question I wasn't ready for, and I'll tell my players, "I need to think".

For more important NPCs, I write more motivation, and write out specific things I want them to say.

For example: My players went to the fortress of a minor noble who had advertised his need for adventurers. Since I had already decided that that NPC would be at least semi-important, I had some of his motivations drawn out.

He was selfish, elitist, and hot headed. He was annoyed with the fact that he didn't own more land (i.e. didn't have more power), and had a definite evil streak that he hid well.

I wrote out the points that I wanted him to talk about, specifically giving myself lines to work from. I knew I didn't want to give too much of the "quest" away, since part of the whole plan was to KILL the PCs at some point, and clearly, pointing that out wasn't going to win them over. (Just for completion sake, the PCs did not end up dying). So instead I gave the PCs a lot more money than characters of their stature would have received, to entice them to forget about the lack of detail surrounding the quest.

To further reinforce the notion that this guy was not very warm, to say the least, I had the PCs see other adventurers leaving in shame, being shouted at the by the Lord to leave his "[effing] castle".

DonEsteban
2011-05-29, 07:56 PM
<metoo>Practice</metoo> by starting a PbP game. You'll have a lot more time to think of witty NPC dialogue and (hopefully) you will develop a certain repertoire and get feeling for what kind of questions the PCs might ask and so on. It'll also give you more time to fix your own plot holes and come up with ways to adapt your script and avoid railroading.

Also talk to other DMs (or players) about what went wrong in your last session/campaign an what they would have done in your place.

dariathalon
2011-05-30, 02:21 AM
I highly recommend both http://www.treasuretables.org/ and http://www.gnomestew.com/. I found some really good advice from both of these resources as I was planning for my last campaign. Just about anything you could think of to improve your game, they have advice on how to do it well.

Godskook
2011-05-30, 03:24 AM
1.Reward behavior in your players that you want to see them do, and avoid punishing bad behavior(the absence of a reward is typically punishment enough to evoke a pavlovian response).

2.Realize that your players already, to an extent, like your DMing, or else they wouldn't let you do it. They're a willing audience, so you must be doing *SOMETHING* right.

3.Don't plan 'stories', develop characters and plots, and then let the players' efforts tell *YOU* what happens, rather than you always telling the players what happens. An example from my last game session:

What I prepped(spoilered for length:
I prepped statblocks for the 4 guild bounty hunters that the party had encountered previously. It had been ages since the two groups had met, and the bounty hunters got better in the interim too(but not as much as the PCs had). Each was ECL 4, a 1 level bump, but also required pb bumps and tons of feat selection, due to houserules.

I prepped the guild 'enforcer', who was sent to aid the bounty hunters in capturing the PCs. ECL 7-9(never did quite finish him, but that wasn't apparently needed).

I prepped the PC's friend, who was lost to them until just recently, but is really a voidmind slave to a mindflayer cabal.

I prepped the idea of the cheese rolling competition where this session began.

I prepped motivations and goals for each person listed above, and checked other relevant NPCs to ensure my plans weren't going to be plot-hole-ish.

What happened:
The PCs showed up to the competition with good disguise checks. The friend rolled well, and the bounty hunters rolled poorly. Due to a lack of a completed statblock, the enforcer was still 'setting up shop' in town. Since one of the bounty hunters was related to a new PC(who wasn't wanted), I had two scenes to start with:
Scene 1 - Friend and PC with low disguise check roll
Scene 2 - newPC and BH brother

Scene 1 was almost negligible, but important to the narrative, so I let it happen. Scene 2, however, went from being a brotherly reunion to a plot point when another PC walked into it and mistakenly blew his own cover. Since the PC who had been talking to the 'friend' was nearby, he saw this going down, and joined the scene. By that time, the entire group of bounty hunters had come together, and wound up talking the 3 PCs into coming back to meet with the Enforcer(only the one's cover was blown). This takes quite a while, so I run a quick scene for the other guys, involving the competition, including the Tibbit Swordsage tampering with another contestant's cheese.

Back to the Enforcer, the second PC's cover is blown over the course of several bluff checks, and he eventually starts singing like a canary. The guild members eventually detained both of the 'wanted' PCs, and with the brother-PC in tow, went back to the fair to capture the rest.

Meanwhile, the two captured PCs break free from their prison, knock out the constable for good measure(more a courtesy than a precaution), and manage to get a message to their friends about the incoming threat.

The PCs at the competition make to leave, but due to timing, are spotted by some of the guild(but not recognized). A 2 bounty hunter combat ensues, knocking the party warblade down to 3 Str(hilarious!), and forces the 'friend's' hand, so he steps in, nearly slaughters one guild-member, and threatens the other into leaving them alone(the 'friend' had to find one of the 'captured' PCs before turning on the party). Finally, the group gets underway towards teh arranged meeting spot. As things settle down for the night, the trap springs, and the 'friend' turns into a twice-lycan voidmind who attempts to rip the PCs in half. Game wraps before they're able to down the beast, so we'll start next session up with the last half of Round 6

You'll note that I *NEVER* prepped any of what actually happened. I didn't know that only one PC was going to get caught on his own. I was actually expecting for a full PCs+'friend' vs. guild brawl to errupt somewhere, but it didn't, and that was fine. And y'know where they wound up? At the goblin caves they tried to massacre 3 levels prior, but wound up negotiating a peace with instead(sure came in handy, cause all the NPCs assume that the PCs hate that tribe).

Saintheart
2011-05-30, 07:27 AM
<metoo>Practice</metoo> by starting a PbP game. You'll have a lot more time to think of witty NPC dialogue and (hopefully) you will develop a certain repertoire and get feeling for what kind of questions the PCs might ask and so on. It'll also give you more time to fix your own plot holes and come up with ways to adapt your script and avoid railroading.

This. Some people just aren't built to think on their feet as a FtF DM has to. This is nothing to be ashamed of, it's merely an indication of where your talents lie. If you find you're writing better stuff than you're saying, it might just be that you're better in the written medium than the spoken. PbP is rewarding if you're lucky enough to pull a group of people willing to stick it out. I've been with the same PbP group, on the one campaign (RHOD) for roughly 3 years now. :D

Daimbert
2011-05-30, 09:29 AM
3.Watch TV shows, movies and read novels. They have all sorts of examples of (NPC) personalities. It's easy enough to take any character and make it a D&D one.

A good trick here is just model your NPCs on other fictional characters. So when your playing the part of Lord Kost, you just need to act as it he was Darth Vader. Oost the town wizard is Doctor Who, Ham the paladin is RoboCop, Mayor Quimby is Steven Colbert and so forth. It's even better if you pick small characters or ones from not so popular media. Remember that you don't have to have the 'exact' character, you just want their personality. So Lord Kost does not were magic armor have a light sword and a force power...he could be a elven bard or a dwarven cleric, just with the Darth Vader personality.

And the character need not be from an 'action/fantasy show', any show will do for a personality.

This. I'm not an experienced DM/GM, but I do this both with NPCs and with characters, and also for flavour text for PBF board games. Using an established personality really helps you not only decide what to say next by asking "What would Darth Vader say/do here?" but it can also help you with plots and interactions if you're using slightly deeper characters than the average. I introduced one NPC personality that ended up driving part of the plot for the Amber game I'm running PBF.