Necromancer help

[*.*.*.*]

I am planning to make a necromancer in an upcoming pathfinder game, starting at level 5 and I am promised to level quickly. I know that clerics are the best necromancers, but I'm looking for something a tad bit more arcane. The DM has restricted me, saying that I CAN NOT have an army of undead, only a few powerful servants. Any Ideas/tips? I was personally debating between Dread Necro and Death Master

[Silva Stormrage]

Well... What counts as a "few" minions. 1-2? 3-4?. Frankly if you can't have a horde of undead Dread Necromancer loses its main value and you are probably better off making a Wizard. (On a side note Uttercold Assault Wizards are interesting to play). You could use command undead to take control of a few powerful ones and then cast good necromancy spells. You can use arcane disciple to get spells like desecrate on your list (or just buy a deadman's ring which gives the bonus to any undead you create)

I haven't looked at death master but I have heard it is basically an int based Dread Necromancer without Undead Mastery?

But ya the main advantage of Dread Necromancer is that it can be an effective melee type at low levels and it gets a TON of undead at lvl 8 (more so if you have a rod of undead mastery). But since you can't get an army I don't see the advantage of Dread Necromancer or Death Master over wizard or sorcerer.

[Zaq]

Dread Necromancer is probably the easiest option. That or a specialized Wizard would probably be your best bets. A Cleric is only better at minion mastery, not at necromancy as a whole . . . and if you're not going to be a minionmancer, you don't really lose much by going Wizzie.

I like DNs better, but they'll get the good undead creation spells later than a Wizzie would. (What a shocker: the Wizard is a stronger class than something else. Whodathunkit?)

Alternatively, an evil Incarnate can get a fully functional zombie at ECL 2 (Necrocarnum Circlet, Crown bind). It only lets you make one zombie at a time (which will make your GM happy), but it's a pretty big one (max HD = your meldshaper level), it's smart (totally loyal, but not mindless), and it gets cool abilities if you give it essentia. That said, the other Necrocarnum melds don't really feel like traditional necromancy, so it might not be your cup of tea. By ECL 6, your DN or Wizard can use a similar trick with two feats (Shape Soulmeld and Open Least Chakra), but you'll have a much lower HD limit (since you'll effectively only have half meldshaper level) and you won't have any essentia to give it. Still, it's an option.

Also, see if your GM will allow you to buy a scroll or two of Create Undead. It's on your class list no matter whether you go Wizzie or DN, so it'll be relatively easy to use. That'll let you get started on getting an undead buddy before you actually get the spell as normal.

[Silva Stormrage]

Oh and another thing is that you could take the Skeleton Familiar ACF from Unearthed Arcana that trades out your familiar with a skeleton if you end up going Wizard.

[Fable Wright]

Dread Necromancer is probably the easiest option. That or a specialized Wizard would probably be your best bets. A Cleric is only better at minion mastery, not at necromancy as a whole . . . and if you're not going to be a minionmancer, you don't really lose much by going Wizzie.

I like DNs better, but they'll get the good undead creation spells later than a Wizzie would. (What a shocker: the Wizard is a stronger class than something else. Whodathunkit?)
Not quite; Versatile Spellcaster gets you the spells about the same time as the Wizard. And animate dead at level 6. For more advice, I direct you here (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872726/Revised_Necromancer_Handbook).

Also, a scroll of Plague of Undead animating a high level Zombie Dragon (rules in Draconomicon) would be good at 8th level, when you get there. If you can afford one now, just fluff it as a gift from your tutor/whoever, and you are saving it for such an occasion that you could use it well... and if you can find a Dragon Graveyard, then that would be the perfect excuse to use it. One high level minion, anyone? Aside from that, go Zombie Hydras if you can, with Dire Lion skeletons.

[agahii]

Id go dread necromancer human necropolitan so you can heal yourself (tomb tainted soul if not allowed). For class id go dread necromancer(get animate dread warrior(empires of the east I believe) spell and animate some clerics with it).

[Munchkin-Masher]

If you still want to rely on undead minions even though you can't have an army of small ones going Dread Necromancer and getting a Rod of Undead Mastery would pretty much mean that you could animate all the big baddies you come across.

Let's see.

Let's assume that you've reached level 8 and that you have a charisma of 18.

With Undead Mastery (Gained at level 8) you would now be able control 4+your charisma score (+4) undead per class level and a Rod of undead mastery would double that. that would mean that you can control 128 HD of undead. divide that up 16 that maximum number of HD you can animate in one spell that would mean that you can have 8 undead with 16 HD each following you, that ain't too shabby.

[Fable Wright]

With Undead Mastery (Gained at level 8) you would now be able control 4+your charisma score (+4) undead per class level and a Rod of undead mastery would double that. that would mean that you can control 128 HD of undead. divide that up 16 that maximum number of HD you can animate in one spell that would mean that you can have 8 undead with 16 HD each following you, that ain't too shabby.

That... is a bit too high. That is not just a couple of undead to use... that's a small army. Alternatively, invest in scrolls of a higher CL than you. That way, you have less undead, and each one is more powerful individually... OTOH, the 20HD limit means that you're going to wind up with undead overflow unless you make a ton of zombie dragons. Which raises a completely different set of problems and a roughly equal amount of epic.

[faceroll]

I would go with Dread Necro. Getting to add charisma to HP is pretty sweet. With some versatile spell shenanigans, you can get earlier access to higher level spells. Don't dump your wisdom and you can pick up another 9 spells known with the Arcane Disciple feat.

Make sure to do your animating near a desecrated altar.

[Silva Stormrage]

I would go with Dread Necro. Getting to add charisma to HP is pretty sweet. With some versatile spell shenanigans, you can get earlier access to higher level spells. Don't dump your wisdom and you can pick up another 9 spells known with the Arcane Disciple feat.

Make sure to do your animating near a desecrated altar.

Um... They don't get Charisma to HP...

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Um... They don't get Charisma to HP...

That was probably a typo and should have been Cha to HD... as in control cap.

The bigger the minion, after all...

[Coidzor]

There are ways to get CHA to HP, though. There's a couple that an individual looking to become undead could use, I believe. One of which is a ritual from the Player's Guide to Eberron in the Blood of Vol section, IIRC. Lets you dump con further and further prior to whatever undeadifying method one employs.

Or just get Desecrate up during the creation process. Though there's a way to improve upon this beyond just having an altar to an appropriate deity around...