Buffy Season 8 - err, whut?

[Kobold-Bard]

I just finished reading Buffy Season 8 (the comic that was the canonical extention of the show), and the whole Twilight thing just confused the hell out of me. I finished reading it not one hour ago and I have little-no idea what was going on.

Is there anyone who can explain the whole Twilight thing to me please, because it not making sense is bugging me.

Thanks,
K-B

[Tirian]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffy_the_Vampire_Slayer_Season_Eight

I don't know if you need more explanation than that, but it's probably a good place to start.

[Yanagi]

The plot arc of Twilight, as best I understand it:

Take the Tantric idea that the universe is constantly unmade and remade by the cosmic fornication of the Masculine and Feminine Divine Principles and grind the it into a bland paste, then inject the it into Buffy and Angel moulds.

Season with pop culture references and demons; then kill Giles so the readers know it's all Super Serious...and Anyone Can Die! But mostly those that are more interesting than Buffy! Or emotionally well-adjusted!

This is all happens because Angel--possibly hopped up on Cosmic Destiny fumes--decides that stalking his ex with the help of the Legion of Villainous Cameos is a helpful activity. Furthermore, Dear Abby told him that "using military ordinance to whittle down the number of Extraneous Interchangeable Slayers so that Buffy can achieve apotheosis by absorbing their powers and pass into a new plane of existence" is way better romantic gesture than roses and chocolates.

And then the universe ends because of something...something...Unique Snowflake Love Story plus Cosmic Forces, therefore something...something...it goes not with a bang but with horrible fanficcy sex. The only hope is to return to Sunnydale and complete the smoldering pyre of callback characters by dredging up the Master and cut the blue wire on yet another MacGuffin.

...and then Buffy kills all the magic in the world so that universe is saved, or, more likely, because Willow was being way too competent and likeable.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Still sounds better than Season 5, 6, or 7.

[Mx.Silver]

Still sounds better than Season 5, 6, or 7.

I am forced to agree :smalltongue:

[Jibar]

Still sounds better than Season 5, 6, or 7.

Wait, what was wrong with 5...
*Is currently watching 5*
...ooooooohhhhhhhh yeeeeeeaaaaaaah.

Though, 5 has The Body, which instantly puts it above 6 and 7.


The only hope is to return to Sunnydale and complete the smoldering pyre of callback characters by dredging up the Master and cut the blue wire on yet another MacGuffin.

Hold on hold on hold on, how does that...
Like, dig up his bones again?
Because they were kinda ground into dust and left to wander in the smoking crater that was Post-7 Sunnydale.

[Kobold-Bard]

Wait, what was wrong with 5...
*Is currently watching 5*
...ooooooohhhhhhhh yeeeeeeaaaaaaah.

Though, 5 has The Body, which instantly puts it above 6 and 7.

...

And Once More With Feeling puts 6 back over 5.


...

Hold on hold on hold on, how does that...
Like, dig up his bones again?
Because they were kinda ground into dust and left to wander in the smoking crater that was Post-7 Sunnydale.

Oh believe me, that is the least of what is wrong with Season 8.

[Mx.Silver]

And Once More With Feeling puts 6 back over 5.

Sadly, just about every other episode in 6 puts 5 right back over it again :smalltongue:

[BRC]

Sadly, just about every other episode in 6 puts 5 right back over it again :smalltongue:
My rule with Six is "watch from the beginning "Once more with Feeling, then skip to the last 3 episodes".

As for Season 8, it started out okay I thought. There was some stuff that was them going crazy with visuals now that they were no longer limited by what they could put in front of a camera for a reasonable budget. However, by the end it just turned into a big ball o' twisted mythology.

Had they kept it "The adventures of Buffy and her army of Slayers", I think it would have been fun.

[Talya]

Meh. My favorite seasons of Buffy were 5, 2, and 6, in that order. (Followed by 3,7,1 and 4 bringing up the rear.)

[Tirian]

Still sounds better than Season 5, 6, or 7.

I'm not sure it's fair to compare 40+ issues of a comic book with no limit on location or special effects to 22 hours of television (which are more like 40 minute hours).

[Yanagi]

@ Jibar

Sadly no. Actual cameo by the Master.

@Kobold_bard

I didn't think Season 8 was all bad: some of the 2-3 parters were good; the part involving a Faith-Giles co-op mission was great. But the Twilight plot arc was just...fail.

I've heard mention of Season 9 being manned by Gail Simone, who I adore for her work on Secret Six and Wonder Woman. It would be awesome if it's true, as she's got the perfect snark-to-pathos ratio down, and she writes butt-kicking, intelligent women like nobody's business.


Had they kept it "The adventures of Buffy and her army of Slayers", I think it would have been fun.

Given how world-breaking this was, I did feel like the "Army of Slayers" got short shrift. The rogue Slayers that didn't get with the program were actually pretty interesting villains.

[Nerd-o-rama]

I'm not sure it's fair to compare 40+ issues of a comic book with no limit on location or special effects to 22 hours of television (which are more like 40 minute hours).

The problem with those seasons wasn't the budget. It was the fact that they were unfocused and tedious barring a few standout episodes.

[comicshorse]

The problem with those seasons wasn't the budget. It was the fact that they were unfocused and tedious barring a few standout episodes.

Which is pretty much the problem I had with the Season 8 comics

[Nerd-o-rama]

Okay, yeah, I admit I stopped reading after the Fray crossover.

[Kobold-Bard]

Okay, yeah, I admit I stopped reading after the Fray crossover.

I wise decision it must be said.

[Talya]

The problem with those seasons wasn't the budget. It was the fact that they were unfocused and tedious barring a few standout episodes.

Season 5 had the most coherent, best plot, and the second best "big bad" throughout all of BtVS with Glorificus. It was an incredible season, from beginning to end.

Season 6 was indeed less coherent, despite having the best "big bad" in the entire series. Problem was, she surprises everyone by becoming the big bad at the last moment. Still, the season was a lot of fun, thanks to the Trio and the best use of the scooby gang throughout. I'd rank season 2 better than 6, but still put 6 above seasons 1,3, 4, and 7.

The seasons that I felt were the worst done, by a longshot, were 1 and 4.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Most of that is pretty much opinion-based, and it's been too long since I watched the show to back mine up. And I will agree that the Season 6 finale arc were some of the "standout episodes" I liked, Forced Drama leading into them aside.

Still, Glory a better Big Bad than the Mayor? Really?

[Talya]

Most of that is pretty much opinion-based, and it's been too long since I watched the show to back mine up. And I will agree that the Season 6 finale arc were some of the "standout episodes" I liked, Forced Drama leading into them aside.

Still, Glory a better Big Bad than the Mayor? Really?

I wasn't all that big a fan of the mayor or season 3 in general. It wasn't terrible, but after the awesomeness that was season 2, season 3 didn't grab me. (Although, in retrospect, Faith was great.)

Ah, season 2. I still get misty-eyed when I hear Sarah McLachlan's "Full of Grace."

[Xondoure]

In my opinion Buffy should have ended with gradutation, because they kept trying to top that, and it was just sad really.

[Talya]

In my opinion Buffy should have ended with gradutation, because they kept trying to top that, and it was just sad really.

Na. They did top graduation, twice.

The earliest natural ending point for the series, I thought, was at the end of season 2. You could have finished it right after sending Angel to hell and it would have been awesome. That actually reminds me of something I didn't like about season 3--the way they brought Angel back, all deus ex machina--rather made the tear-jerking ending of season 2 rather pointless.

I liked Season 5 and 6 both better than 3 (graduation) as well. I found the mayor just a bit...wrong.

[Nerd-o-rama]

I found the mayor just a bit...wrong.

Well, he is the villain. I personally found the tension between "affable monomaniac who's actually kind of a nice person when it doesn't interfere with his goals" and "manipulative creeper", and wondering where one stopped and the other began, to be really entertaining, especially in his not-quite-parental relationship with Faith. Hell, he even managed one last hurrah of these shenanigans posthumously (in one of season 4's numerous but isolated good episodes).

[Athaniar]

Like I said in the "somewhat" derailed Firefly thread, I think no season after season 3 was that good. Not that there aren't episodes worth watching in them (Once More With Feeling is a perfect example of that), or that they don't have interesting characters (Anya, the Trio...), but I just don't think they were all that good. Season 4 was overall quite boring, season 5 was mostly annoying (I have a strong dislike for both Glory and Dawn, and that's not even mentioning Tara), season 6 was arguably the best of these (mostly because of the aforementioned Trio, as a nerd I love all their references), but season 7 got kinda confusing and had too much of both unlikeable characters (including the title character) and deus ex machina (like the axe scythe's final power). As for the comic, I've only read The Long Way Home (I don't care about spoilers, though), but it's not that bad. Not that good either, but still.

[Talya]

(I have a strong dislike for both Glory and Dawn, and that's not even mentioning Tara)

I loved all three of them!

[Athaniar]

Dawn kinda got better in the later seasons, I'll admit that much. Was never fond of Glory, though. A superdemon, sorry, hellgod who is a blonde bimbo? Not impressive. And Tara, she just didn't have a personality. She was Willow's girlfriend, and like Willow she was a witch (until she kinda stopped). That's it. Glory messing with her mind actually made her more interesting. I guess I'm one of the few who actually prefers Kennedy... or Oz for that matter. He was a werewolf! And Joker! Why couldn't he have stayed?

[Yanagi]

I cling to the idea that Glory was literally thec concept glory. All of her bad habits (and as opposed to her amorality) were just a part of her archtypal nature...the ugly aspects of glory, so to speak: flightiness, whimsically, vindictiveness, fawning need to attention, jealously....

[Jibar]

I cling to the idea that Glory was literally thec concept glory. All of her bad habits (and as opposed to her amorality) were just a part of her archtypal nature...the ugly aspects of glory, so to speak: flightiness, whimsically, vindictiveness, fawning need to attention, jealously....

Would work well as opposite to Buffy in this season. Rewatching it now, I'd say this is Buffy at her most humble and self sacrificing. She's admitting her weaknesses and giving everything for everyone around her.



Season 6 was indeed less coherent, despite having the best "big bad" in the entire series. Problem was, she surprises everyone by becoming the big bad at the last moment.

I wouldn't say Willow really is the Big Bad though. Joss said it's Life, and I agree. If Season 5 is the season about becoming an adult and accepting your responsibilities, Season 6 is about all the hardships therein. Dark Willow is a really bad nervous breakdown as she's unable to cope with everything crashing down around her.
Which is why...


And I will agree that the Season 6 finale arc were some of the "standout episodes" I liked, Forced Drama leading into them aside.

I don't like the finale arc, but I love Xander saving the world. The most down to earth of the cast, the one who had to grow up first as it were during Season 4, is the one who saves the day.
And I don't like the finale because Dark Willow just isn't convincing to me. Without that weird psycho-sexual edge she had as Vamp Willow, Alyson Hannigan is a little too adorable to be all that threatening.



Well, he is the villain. I personally found the tension between "affable monomaniac who's actually kind of a nice person when it doesn't interfere with his goals" and "manipulative creeper", and wondering where one stopped and the other began, to be really entertaining, especially in his not-quite-parental relationship with Faith. Hell, he even managed one last hurrah of these shenanigans posthumously (in one of season 4's numerous but isolated good episodes).

God yes, I love the Mayor.
Especially his most evil moment, suffocating Buffy at the hospital. It's not fuelled by a diabolical plan, he doesn't get anything out of it, he's just a father in grief who wants revenge.

Also in my latest rewatch of the series, I've reached The Body.
I don't have the strength to go on. Especially after being reminded how much I love Joyce in 5.

[comicshorse]

Would work well as opposite to Buffy in this season. Rewatching it now, I'd say this is Buffy at her most humble and self sacrificing. She's admitting her weaknesses and giving everything for everyone around her.


Apart from in the final episode when she tells all her friends that she'll murder them if they go anywhere near Dawn

Oh yeah and put me dowm as another Major fan

[Talya]

Giles had his crowning moment of awesome (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SugarWiki/MomentOfAwesome?from=Main.CrowningMomentOfAwesome) at the end of season 5.

Ben: She could've killed me.
Giles: No, she couldn't. Never. And, sooner or later, Glory will reemerge and make Buffy pay for that mercy. And the world with her. Buffy even knows that, and still she couldn't take a human life. She's a hero, you see. She's not like us.
Ben: Us?

[Lord Seth]

And Tara, she just didn't have a personality. She was Willow's girlfriend, and like Willow she was a witch (until she kinda stopped). That's it.Yeah, I didn't like Tara much either, she felt like she was only there because they had to give Willow a love interest after Oz left. The Willow/Tara song was easily my least favorite of the songs in "Once More, With Feeling" also.

[comicshorse]

Giles had his crowning moment of awesome (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SugarWiki/MomentOfAwesome?from=Main.CrowningMomentOfAwesome) at the end of season 5.

Ben: She could've killed me.
Giles: No, she couldn't. Never. And, sooner or later, Glory will reemerge and make Buffy pay for that mercy. And the world with her. Buffy even knows that, and still she couldn't take a human life. She's a hero, you see. She's not like us.
Ben: Us?

That always struck me as massively inconsistent

the same Buffy who declares she'll murder her friends if they get to close to Dawn. Who is prepared to sacrifice the multiverse to (IMHO) make herself feel better. Who killed at least one Knight of Byzantium, is now not killing Ben because she's too moral.

[Traab]

That always struck me as massively inconsistent

the same Buffy who declares she'll murder her friends if they get to close to Dawn. Who is prepared to sacrifice the multiverse to (IMHO) make herself feel better. Who killed at least one Knight of Byzantium, is now not killing Ben because she's too moral.


Well she is a teenager. Besides, consistency is the defense of a small mind! And if she had been willing then, we wouldnt have been able to see giles have his moment.

I always wished they had continued the series in a spinoff or something to cover their adventures of arranging a world wide syndicate of slayers and the interesting trouble they get into.