Hattori Hanzo v.s Guan Yu

[ArlEammon]

Hattori Hanzo, the famed Ninja of Japan is hired to assassinate Guan Yu. (The famed Dynasty Warriors General) assuming Guan Yu is seperated from his generals, will he be assassinated by Hanzo Hattori?

Note: This is just the historical figures v.s eachother.

Note 2: Depending on who wins, who would win if we're talking about fictional characters?

[Raistlin1040]

Historically: Hanzo probably wins. Lu Xun and Lu Meng were great intellects and generals in their own right, but against a smarter general, they wouldn't have been able to capture him. Guan Yu wasn't smart enough to escape them, showing that he didn't do well without obvious escape routes. Hanzo would have thought more steps ahead and anticipated Guan Yu's movements.

Fictionally: Depends on which player presses X faster :smalltongue:

[littlebottom]

Fictionally: Depends on which player presses X faster :smalltongue:

in my experience, thats the Square button :smallwink:

but yeah, romance of the three kingdoms (sometimes just called the three kingdoms), is a great work of literature but is more fiction than fact im afraid, although, saying that, there is indeed a great deal of fact in there, if you wanted a more historically accurate Guan yu, you would proberbly need to read the proper historical records, which i havnt done.

but going of the fictional story, Guan yu is a force to be reconed with, intimidating, fierce, and so on, but he doesnt often show great intellect on a personal level. he does do some interesting moves in battle, but most of them were pre-planned with the help of others, although executed on his own sometimes.

ultimately going off of story driven Guan yu (since his in game representation varies vastly depending how much you have played the character, and thus is basically null and void trying to compare him flatly to any other character) id say that Hattori wins.

final note, i would assume if he was hired to assasinate Guan yu, he would do it with typical ninja fashion, thus, kill him when he is alone, unarmed, unsuspecting, or perhaps asleep. so Guan yu is vastly out done unless put into a more straight forward combat situation.

EDIT: that, or Guan yu could make the same claim as cao cao, that he can kill people in his sleep :smalltongue: that might force Hattori's hand into a more "standard" fighting situation, if say, the poison dart misses.

[ArlEammon]

Let's say it's standard fare.

[Raistlin1040]

Just remembered Guan Yu can possess people after he dies, so he'd probably possess Hanzo and then curse him or something.

[Ozymandias]

In real life, probably Hanzō. He has 1300 years of tactical and technological advantage, which is pretty significant, and shinobi often used unorthodox tactics that Guan Yu likely couldn't deal with. Although if Guan Yu is mounted and Hanzō isn't then the outcome is probably reversed.

Mythically, Guan Yu takes it pretty easily. From what I gather he's essentially a superhuman, or a deity (even more than most of the characters in RoTK - Hanzō is just a particularly skilled shinobi.

[Zaydos]

Guan Yu is listed as a war god by Wikipedia.

He was almost as skilled in direct combat as Lu Bu (although even with Zhang Fei the two were unable to beat Lu Bu two on one... that's about as far as I got in RotTK when reading it). So taking the semi-mythical status of both, I'd give this to Guan Yu if he was awake. If Hanzo could sneak in and kill him in his sleep he might win, but that requires Guan Yu's friends to be magically whisked away and for Guan Yu to not have any knowledge that he has an enemy (two major advantages to give Hanzo).

[Velaryon]

If Tokugawa Ieyasu really wants Guan Yu dead, he should send Honda Tadakatsu instead. :smallbiggrin:

Seriously though, Hanzo has more than a millennium's worth of advancement in technology and warfare to benefit from. On top of that, Guan Yu is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. On the other hand, Guan Yu is reputed to be an absolutely incredible warrior (maybe not the best of his era but definitely near the top).

Head to head, I would give advantage to Guan Yu, especially if he is mounted. But ninjas don't fight fair - that's what makes them ninjas. I believe Hanzo could find an opportunity to assassinate him quietly (barring a random intervention from Fuma Kotaro, anyway*).

*Can you tell I've been playing too many Koei games?

[Zaydos]

*Can you tell I've been playing too many Koei games?

What company do you think made me want to read RotTKs? Also Guan Yu had 92 Int (max 100), so he was supposed to be fairly bright; and Kotaro Fuma supposedly killed Hanzo in the end.

[Brother Oni]

Guan Yu is listed as a war god by Wikipedia.

He's not really a war god though. He emphasises loyalty and brotherhood, which in modern english cultural terms is the equivalent of 'looking after your mates'.

Due to this, he's the 'patron saint' of police officers and triad members - you can usually find a small shrine to him in most police stations. The most famous media portrayal of this is in the film Hard Boiled, where Chow Yuen Fatt's character offers a little prayer, asking Lord Guan for guidance on how to reconcile with his girlfriend.


As for the original question, in a standup duel on the battlefield, I'd say Guan Yu. In almost every other situation where Hattori can dictate the terms of engagement, I'd put it on the ninja.
Hmmm, this reminds me of the Deadliest Warrior segment of Spartan versus Ninja - it's pretty much the same situation except that Guan Yu was known to be a skilled horseman, thus it's ninja versus a cavalryman instead of heavy infantry, making it even more lop-sided.

[polity4life]

I would take the God of War on this one, provided Guan Yu had forward knowledge of Hanzo's intent.

I have read the Luo Guanzhong's Romance of the Three Kingdoms a couple times and Guan Yu was never portrayed as mentally clumsy but he was never praised for his sparkling intellect like contemporary Zhao Yun. He was smart enough to survive and win most engagements he entered. Remember, he single handedly went into Yuan Shao's army and took Wen Chou's and Yan Liang's heads, who were no slouches in combat.

In regards to the battle of Jing Province, Guan Yu was facing Wei then suddenly Wu at the same time. Many of his army deserted because Guan refused to retreat and concede the territory. In Guanzhong's works, Lu Xun is painted as the successor to Zhou Yu who was almost on par with Zhuge Liang and Sima Yi before he stressed himself to death.

Guan Yu's death then was the result of his loyalty to Liu Bei, his army's dwindling numbers, and his situation where he was forced to vastly superior numbers whilst surrounded while contending with one of the great military minds of the day. Guanzhong would have had difficulty writing Zhuge Liang out of that mess.

And yes, Guanzhong's work is historical fiction with much of it exaggerated or made up. He obviously favored the Han loyalists over the other warlords based on character portrayals. I know reading the Records of the Three Kingdoms would shed a different light. However, since we're taking a 14th century figure and having him fight a 3rd century figure, I say we can go down the fantastic route a little further and use the Romance books.

[Velaryon]

What company do you think made me want to read RotTKs? Also Guan Yu had 92 Int (max 100), so he was supposed to be fairly bright; and Kotaro Fuma supposedly killed Hanzo in the end.

True, but the main reason I brought up Kotaro is because in Samurai Warriors 2, he shows up EVERYWHERE, even in battles that have absolutely nothing to do with him or the Hojo at all. He was clearly the developers' pet character for that game, and they just couldn't get enough of him so they injected him into everyone else's stories as well.

Going by the portrayals from that game, I'm sure he'd do his best to crash a Hanzo vs. Guan Yu battle just for the lulz.

[random_guy]

According to Wikipedia, Hanzo was not killed by Fuma Kotaro, he died of old age. If the sources mentioned by Wikipedia is true, then historical Hanzo would be better than Guan Yu. We have a legendary ninja master that no one can kill versus a powerful warrior who was killed in battle.

[dgnslyr]

But by dying, Guan Yu was immortalized as a god! If anything, he became more powerful than Hanzo could possibly imagine. yes, I just likened Guan Yu to Ben Kenobi

[Zaydos]

Bah everyone knows Obi-Wan was a space samurai/shinobi :smalltongue: Obi-Wan was based off of a samurai played by Toshirou Mifune

[Ozymandias]

Well, wuxia vs. jidaigeki is always going to favor the former on a purely "wait is he flying now" level.

[No brains]

I have to put out there that having the two fight alone will give Hanzo a tremendous, maybe unrealistic, advantage. Part of the big deal about Guan Yu is his bonds with his brothers and connection to good strategists. Even if Guan really could swing his 23lb podao off of the back of a horse that could run a thousand miles in one day, it was his loyalty and honor to his group that made him more than a slaughter beast like Mr. Back-stab Lu Bu.

IF Guan Yu were sleeping completely alone, Hanzo could ninja him, but in life Emperor Guan had thousands of people who had his back.

Also while Hanzo may not have died in battle, Guan only died in battle when sandwiched between the two superpowers of the period, after a siege, when his troops deserted him, and after his speedy horse died (I think- Red Hare's death might not be mentioned, but it stops appearing after a while.).

I don't know squat about the ninja though...:smallsmile:

[Raistlin1040]

Red Hare was with Guan Yu during the time of his death. Perhaps he wasn't riding it, but it was in his possession. It was taken by the Wu forces after his death but it refused to eat and died soon afterwards.

[Melayl]

Anyone can be assassinated... I'd give this one to the assassin, unless it was a straight up, one-on-one combat (then I don't know enough about either to even comment :smallwink:)

[Zen Monkey]

According to legend, Guan Yu calmly sipped tea and played a game of go while a surgeon cut him deep enough to take scrapings from the bone in his arm. That's pretty tough.

These assassin vs. warrior matches never go well, because it always comes down to 'X could sneak up and kill Y in his sleep' which is true of pretty much anyone at any time. You're better off with two straightforward warriors, like Lu Bu vs. Miyamoto Musashi or something along those lines.

[No brains]

Red Hare was with Guan Yu during the time of his death. Perhaps he wasn't riding it, but it was in his possession. It was taken by the Wu forces after his death but it refused to eat and died soon afterwards.

Oh! Thank you very much for clearing that up! :)

Another funny thing about Guan Yu's death is that it was the turning point where the era went downhill. The ill-fated revenge attack by Liu Bei killed a few of his good officers and Tsao Tsao died soon after.

[Flickerdart]

I think it's pretty much a given that Hanzo would win if Guan Yu had no buddies with him. It would be more interesting to see how many allies we could give Guan Yu before Hanzo could no longer murder them all.

[Uiriamu]

Awww why isn't Miyamoto Musashi in this, oh well, Guan Yu it is.

[Zaydos]

Because Musashi slept in a cave with his sword beside him refusing to bathe for fear of a ninja assassinating him when he didn't have it close by. Besides Hanzo and Musashi actually lived in overlapping time periods, where's the fun in that?

[No brains]

Because Musashi slept in a cave with his sword beside him refusing to bathe for fear of a ninja assassinating him when he didn't have it close by. Besides Hanzo and Musashi actually lived in overlapping time periods, where's the fun in that?

Void Ring my axe!! What a fake! >:/

[GoblinArchmage]

Hanzo, assuming you mean this guy (which you probably don't). He's the one on the left, speaking with Uma Thurman.:

http://content9.flixster.com/question/36/33/21/3633215_std.jpg

[Brother Oni]

I think it's pretty much a given that Hanzo would win if Guan Yu had no buddies with him. It would be more interesting to see how many allies we could give Guan Yu before Hanzo could no longer murder them all.

Not really. It depends on which version of the characters you're going to use and what scenario.

Historical battlefield: Guan Yu - mounted cavalryman versus assassin.

Historical infiltration/ambush: Hanzo - technological edge and tactics win out. Sure Guan Yu is going to be surrounded by loyal followers, but sneaking past people is what ninja are renown for.

Wuxia/jidaigeki: Guan Yu - simply for the 'oh wait, he's flying now' factor as Ozymandias said.

Video games (Dynasty Warriors Strikeforce versus Samurai Warriors): Hanzo as he's flippin' ninja, plus his moveset's better.


Void Ring my axe!! What a fake! >:/

You can call Miyamoto whatever you like, but you can't call him stupid. :smallbiggrin:

[Flickerdart]

Not really. It depends on which version of the characters you're going to use and what scenario.

Historical battlefield: Guan Yu - mounted cavalryman versus assassin.

Historical infiltration/ambush: Hanzo - technological edge and tactics win out. Sure Guan Yu is going to be surrounded by loyal followers, but sneaking past people is what ninja are renown for.

Wuxia/jidaigeki: Guan Yu - simply for the 'oh wait, he's flying now' factor as Ozymandias said.

Video games (Dynasty Warriors Strikeforce versus Samurai Warriors): Hanzo as he's flippin' ninja, plus his moveset's better.



You can call Miyamoto whatever you like, but you can't call him stupid. :smallbiggrin:
Considering that Hanzo is an assassin, Guan Yu would never get a chance to fly unless they fight on Final Destination, in which case he'd lose anyway. But the original premise has Hanzo hired to assassinate the guy, so why are they meeting in open combat?