Min/Max Paladin

[Garetek]

So wanted to thank everyone for their help on my rogue.

Worked to well really, with somewhere around +15 to move silently, and +10 to hide.

All the monsters that we fought never caught on to the midget throwing bottle cap sized shurikens for 4+d6 damage a round.

Only bigger and better and new things.

Creating the Hero for the GM to oppose us, and to be run by me.

Paladin, yes I know that the crusader roughly a better choice, but I need him to get lay on hands for Grey Guard.

Also, weapons. Long sword and shield, or can you all think of anything better for roughly a ecl 8 paladin(or what ever he will be) using a shield.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If you insist on using Grey Guard, go Cleric 4/ Warblade 1/ Prestige Paladin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigePaladin) 3/ Grey Guard. Get Action Before Thought, Disarming Strike, and Wall of Blades, and at 9th get Martial Study for Iron Heart Surge.

[Coidzor]

Level 8ish, eh? Do you want a mount or not?

[Garetek]

Mount would be useful but not planning on doing much mounted combat. So not a high priority

[gallagher]

how much gray do you need in this guard?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Human, Warblade 3/ Paladin 5, Charging Smite ACF in PH2. Power Attack, Battle Jump, Power Lunge, Leap Attack, 2 ranks in Kn: Local: Taer region to qualify for Battle Jump, max ranks in Jump. Battle Leader's Charge maneuver, Rhino's Rush spell, +1 Valorous Glaive, Armbands of Might, 1st level Pearls of Power. Wis 12 minimum, focus on Str, Con, and Cha.

Cast Rhino's Rush (swift), Power Attack for -2 to hit (nonaction), Charge with Battle Leader's Charge (full round action), Leap Attack (part of charge), Battle Jump (part of charge), Power Lunge (part of attack), Smite Evil with Charging Smite (part of attack). Damage is as follows, assuming Str 18:

+1 Valorous Glaive base damage 1d10+1
+6 Str
+5 Smite Evil
+10 Charging Smite
+10 Battle Leader's Charge
+12 Power Attack (-2 to hit two-handed is +4, Armbands add +2, Leap Attack increases it by 100%)
= 1d10+44
Rhino's Rush, Valorous weapon, Battle Jump each double x2 > x3 > x4
Power Lunge doubles Str bonus (adds Str bonus again) so +6 which won't be doubled again.
= 4d10+182 damage
Critical hit is x3, so considering three other doublings x3 > x4 > x5 > x6, +6 for Power Lunge
= 6d10+270 critical damage

There you go. If you're using flaws, get Combat Reflexes and Cleave. Power Lunge provokes an AoO from the target of your charge attack, but you do not provoke AoOs from opponents who do not threaten you and you're using a reach weapon. AoOs and Cleaves you make get only the 1d10+1, +6 Str, and +12 Power Attack, none of the multipliers.

[Garetek]

how much gray do you need in this guard?

Just one or two levels.

[Garetek]

Human, Warblade 3/ Paladin 5, Charging Smite ACF in PH2. Power Attack, Battle Jump, Power Lunge, Leap Attack, 2 ranks in Kn: Local: Taer region to qualify for Battle Jump, max ranks in Jump. Battle Leader's Charge maneuver, Rhino's Rush spell, +1 Valorous Glaive, Armbands of Might, 1st level Pearls of Power. Wis 12 minimum, focus on Str, Con, and Cha.

Cast Rhino's Rush (swift), Power Attack for -2 to hit (nonaction), Charge with Battle Leader's Charge (full round action), Leap Attack (part of charge), Battle Jump (part of charge), Power Lunge (part of attack), Smite Evil with Charging Smite (part of attack). Damage is as follows, assuming Str 18:

+1 Valorous Glaive base damage 1d10+1
+6 Str
+5 Smite Evil
+10 Charging Smite
+10 Battle Leader's Charge
+12 Power Attack (-2 to hit two-handed is +4, Armbands add +2, Leap Attack increases it by 100%)
= 1d10+44
Rhino's Rush, Valorous weapon, Battle Jump each double x2 > x3 > x4
Power Lunge doubles Str bonus (adds Str bonus again) so +6 which won't be doubled again.
= 4d10+182 damage
Critical hit is x3, so considering three other doublings x3 > x4 > x5 > x6, +6 for Power Lunge
= 6d10+270 critical damage

There you go. If you're using flaws, get Combat Reflexes and Cleave. Power Lunge provokes an AoO from the target of your charge attack, but you do not provoke AoOs from opponents who do not threaten you and you're using a reach weapon. AoOs and Cleaves you make get only the 1d10+1, +6 Str, and +12 Power Attack, none of the multipliers.

.......Wow. And I thought I knew alot about making characters till I read this. Lol.

[kardar233]

Human, Warblade 3/ Paladin 5, Charging Smite ACF in PH2. Power Attack, Battle Jump, Power Lunge, Leap Attack, 2 ranks in Kn: Local: Taer region to qualify for Battle Jump, max ranks in Jump. Battle Leader's Charge maneuver, Rhino's Rush spell, +1 Valorous Glaive, Armbands of Might, 1st level Pearls of Power. Wis 12 minimum, focus on Str, Con, and Cha.

Cast Rhino's Rush (swift), Power Attack for -2 to hit (nonaction), Charge with Battle Leader's Charge (full round action), Leap Attack (part of charge), Battle Jump (part of charge), Power Lunge (part of attack), Smite Evil with Charging Smite (part of attack). Damage is as follows, assuming Str 18:

+1 Valorous Glaive base damage 1d10+1
+6 Str
+5 Smite Evil
+10 Charging Smite
+10 Battle Leader's Charge
+12 Power Attack (-2 to hit two-handed is +4, Armbands add +2, Leap Attack increases it by 100%)
= 1d10+44
Rhino's Rush, Valorous weapon, Battle Jump each double x2 > x3 > x4
Power Lunge doubles Str bonus (adds Str bonus again) so +6 which won't be doubled again.
= 4d10+182 damage
Critical hit is x3, so considering three other doublings x3 > x4 > x5 > x6, +6 for Power Lunge
= 6d10+270 critical damage

There you go. If you're using flaws, get Combat Reflexes and Cleave. Power Lunge provokes an AoO from the target of your charge attack, but you do not provoke AoOs from opponents who do not threaten you and you're using a reach weapon. AoOs and Cleaves you make get only the 1d10+1, +6 Str, and +12 Power Attack, none of the multipliers.

Don't forget a Vaulting weapon for kicks.

Once you get to the initiator level, can you stack that with Ruby/Diamond Nightmare Blade? Because that would be scary.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Wait, he said 'Paladin', and you used a ToB that was NOT Crusader? For shame.

No, really. If you don't care about a mount, and want to get around the 'Code of DM Says Fall Now', go Crusader, and never ever look back. You'll be glad you did.

[Greenish]

Just one or two levels.Why do you want the Gray Guard for?

Once you get to the initiator level, can you stack that with Ruby/Diamond Nightmare Blade? Because that would be scary.Can't charge and use a standard action strike at the same time.

[Garetek]

I like the "freedom" that it gives me as a paladin.

[Greenish]

I like the "freedom" that it gives me as a paladin.But, but, didn't you say you were going for paladin instead of crusader so that you could qualify for grey guard?

Or do you want to be able to fall?

[Garetek]

Correct. I don't even know if I have the book with crusader in it. All I know is that I like playing paladin/greguards. Gives you a ton of freedom with minor penalties instead of major ones.

[Garetek]

Also, maybe I should ask. Why a crusader over a paladin. What are the benefits over the standard class?

Maybe I should look at this objectivly as what is best for the "archtype" of character I want to play and not limit my self to the name "Paladin"

[Greenish]

Correct. I don't even know if I have the book with crusader in it. All I know is that I like playing paladin/greguards. Gives you a ton of freedom with minor penalties instead of major ones.Well, Bone Knight would get you most of paladin's goodies, while getting you rid of the Code, but if that's not what you want…

PF paladin is considered an upgrade from the 3.5 one, though even the normal can be made to work to an extent with Battle Blessing, devotion feats and SC/PHBII spells.

[Edit]:
Also, maybe I should ask. Why a crusader over a paladin. What are the benefits over the standard class?No falling, better at tanking (or in being holy warrior in general) due to maneuvers, more options.


Maybe I should look at this objectivly as what is best for the "archtype" of character I want to play and not limit my self to the name "Paladin"That's for you to decide.

…

Doooooooo iiiiiit! :smalltongue:

[Garetek]

Thanks for the subtle do it at the bottom. Lol.

Its in the Tomb of Battle? The nine swords or what not?

Okay, so if I went with that and just called my self something other than a paladin, is human the best way to go? or is there another race that stands out in your mind as better.

[Greenish]

Its in the Tomb of Battle? The nine swords or what not?Tome of Battle, the Book of Nine Swords, yes.


Okay, so if I went with that and just called my self something other than a paladin, is human the best way to go? or is there another race that stands out in your mind as better.Depends on what you want to do, but you can't really go wrong with human.

[Garetek]

Fill the role of tanking and all around damage dealer.
I dont know if its in the first post but we have:
Human Barbarian(Tank)
Human Druid(Damage(also newest player)
Human Cleric(Evil so kinda have heals)
Warlock(not sure of his race.)
W-Gnome Rogue. (Damage, and locks)

Fairly balanced party at anything that is not dedicated ranged. But, the barbarian suffers from a low ac by wanting to dual wield.
So Insert
Plate Wearing, Sword and Board Carrying Death Machine that can sustain him/herself through most battles and we have achieved everything but really good and lasting ranged attacks.

[Greenish]

Crusader fits the bill, with great tanking and efficient in-combat healing. I'm a tad leery about the party balance though, since ToB classes tend to have higher floors (even if sword & board isn't the best option). Have a look at ToB and eyeball it.


Though really, you've druid, barbarian and cleric to frontline, you should totally play a bard. :smalltongue:

[Garetek]

cant say I have ever very much cared for a bard. I know their uses but they don't fit the style of character that I find myself drawn too.

This is also what I get for having a gm who does not limit the field. If I have new players I also tell everyone core rules only, at level five we will introduce (blah) and (blah) so that they(the new ones) can understand the game mechanics with out having people like me throwing odd cominations at them etc.

[The Glyphstone]

I've always wondered why people think the Greyguard gives any sort of RP freedom for paladins, since you don't actually get any relaxation of your code until the capstone at level 10. Until then, all you get is easier Atonements when you violate the code.