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Solaris
2011-05-30, 08:30 AM
So I've seen people coming up with the notion of check-based casting, which I rather liked (whether it be caster level or Spellcraft, I'm not sure yet). I also went into classes getting spells at the same level as the bard (though their spells per day remained the same). I allow someone to cast spells above their maximum safe level, just at a +5 to the DC for each step (so trying to cast a 9th-level spell when you can only cast 6th-levels increases the DC by 15).
But if a beatstick can roll a 1 and automatically fail, then the spellcaster should get a potential for failure proportionate to the potential effect. That, and I do so enjoy having magic be dangerous.

Magical Fumbles
If a character fails a check to cast a spell by 1-5, he takes backlash of 1d4 damage per caster level. If he fails by 6+, he takes 1d8 damage per caster level and everyone within 5 ft per spell level takes 1d6 damage per caster level. This damage is an untyped energy damage, and everyone except the caster is allowed a Reflex save (DC same as fumbled spell) for half damage. On a roll of 1, however, or fails an attempt to cast a spell above his maximum safe level, things get gnarly. Not only does the caster suffer from the same backlash as he would from failing by 6 or more, he must also roll against the same DC to confirm the fumble. Failing again means the caster must roll 1d20 and consult the table below. If the fumble allows a save, it is of the same DC as the fumbled spell.

Coma - the caster's Wisdom and Charisma scores are immediately reduced to 0 as he drops into a nightmare-filled coma. He remains in this coma for 1d4 days, plus 1 day per spell's caster level. Afterwards, the caster begins to recover the ability score damage as normal. During this time, restoration and similar magic must overcome SR equal to the caster's HD + 6 in order to function on him. The caster cannot eat, but someone attending to him can provide him with water. The caster is allowed a Fortitude save to resist.
Polymorph - the caster is the subject of an affect similar to the baleful polymorph spell. He remains in that form until the curse is lifted. The caster is allowed a Fortitude save to resist.
Mana Burn - the caster immediately loses all of his spells. He takes untyped energy damage equal to the combined level of the spells lost. He cannot regain spells for 8 hours, but once the time has passed he may regain mana normally.
Cursed Weakness - Roll 1d6. 1 - Strength, 2 - Dexterity, 3 - Constitution, 4 - Intelligence, 5 - Wisdom, 6 - Charisma. The ability score rolled takes a -6 penalty until the curse is lifted. The caster is allowed a Willpower save to resist.
Cursed Ineptitude - The caster gains a -4 penalty to all attack rolls, saving throws, ability checks, and skill checks until the curse is lifted. The caster is allowed a Willpower save to resist.
Cursed Inaction - The caster has a 50% chance to act normally each round; otherwise he takes no action. This remains until the curse is lifted. The caster is allowed a Willpower save to resist.
Mana Void - the caster immediately loses all of his spells. He gains SR of 11 + HD, and must overcome that SR to cast any spells (this is unrelated to any SR a target may have). He cannot regain spells for 8 hours, at which point the SR disappears and he begins recovering spells normally.
Age - The caster ages to his next age category. He gains no mental bonuses, as the age is only physical. If the caster is already Venerable, he dies of old age within 1d4 days.
Body Swap - If the spell has a target, the caster permanently swaps bodies with it. If the spell has no target, then the caster swaps bodies with a nearby random creature. The caster is allowed a Willpower save to resist.
Petrification - The caster and the spell's target (or targets) turn to stone. The caster is allowed a Fortitude save to resist.
Delayed - The spell functions normally, but its effects are delayed for 1d4+1 rounds.
Reflected - The spell functions normally, but it targets the caster instead.
Stunned - The caster is stunned for a number of minutes equal to the spell's caster level. The caster is allowed a Fortitude save to resist.
Eldritch Misfortune - Every magic item within 5 ft of the caster becomes cursed. Roll randomly to determine the effects of the curse.
Spook - The caster becomes frightened for the fumbled spell's duration or 1 round/spell level, whichever is higher. During this time he must make a Will save to cast any spells, as the fear is centered around his own casting power.
Walking Antimagic - An antimagic field develops around the caster, moving with him. It has a 30-ft radius and lasts for 1d6 rounds per caster level.
Rearrangement - The caster takes a 1d4 penalty to all ability scores. The spell's targets (if any) gain a 1d4 increase to all ability scores. The loss and increases are permanent. The caster is allowed a Will save to resist.
Transformation - The caster transforms into a duplicate of the spell's target. This includes creature type and subtypes, physical ability scores, natural armor, movement types, and all extraordinary traits. If the caster fails a Will save, he transforms mentally as well as physically, gaining the target's mental ability scores, alignment, supernatural and spell-like abilities. If the caster is not mentally transformed, he may make a Fortitude save 24 hours later to transform back.
Planar Rift - A rift between the planes opens up, drawing forth hostile fiendish creatures. Treat as a summon monster spell of the same level as the fumbled spell. All of the monsters are hostile and remain until slain. The caster has a 50% chance of being drawn into the Netherworld, otherwise he takes 2d6 points of Corruption and Depravity (or loses 1d4 points from Constitution if you're not using Taint). The caster is allowed a Willpower save to resist.
Roll again on this table twice.


I'm thinking about changing the roll to be 1d20 + spell level, then rearranging these to have the more serious ones be higher-numbered.

wiimanclassic
2011-05-30, 10:51 AM
9 and 18 can cause problems. Like becoming a beholder or something on purpose.

The Dark Fiddler
2011-05-30, 11:06 AM
These are all way too strong. On a natural 1, a melee man misses, but a wizard falls into a coma, loses all of their spells, decrease all of their ability scores, or summon a powerful enemy in addition to the ones he's already fighting? Maybe if you played with those terrible critical fumble rules where melee man's sword breaks immediately or he instead quadruple crits himself this would be balanced, but as is, this is just horribly unfair.

Solaris
2011-05-30, 12:14 PM
9 and 18 can cause problems. Like becoming a beholder or something on purpose.

I think if a player managed to make that happen, I'd have to reward that kind of effort. It'd require rolling a natural 1 while casting a spell against a powerful enemy (or trying and failing to cast a spell that's too high of a level) and then getting one of those results as opposed to the 90% chance of getting one of the others. 18 specifically doesn't allow the caster to gain the beholder's really cool abilities without becoming a beholder himself, while 9 is up to the DM.


These are all way too strong. On a natural 1, a melee man misses, but a wizard falls into a coma, loses all of their spells, decrease all of their ability scores, or summon a powerful enemy in addition to the ones he's already fighting? Maybe if you played with those terrible critical fumble rules where melee man's sword breaks immediately or he instead quadruple crits himself this would be balanced, but as is, this is just horribly unfair.

So is the ability to reshape reality on a whim and make other party members obsolete with a few words. Even with the delayed progression casters can still cast higher-level spells reasonably safely. This table provides them an incentive to not do that, sticking with the lower-level spells that only have a 5% chance of something really bad happening. The only problem I see, really, is that some of these will effectively force the party to pull back and wait for the caster to recover.
Note that all of the permanent ones allow saving throws, and a good chunk of those are Will saves. The coma can last up to 13 days, maximum, if the caster critically fumbles casting a 9th-level spell. The delay is on him healing naturally, not magically. A high-enough cleric just needs to overcome that SR in order to bring the caster's Wisdom and Charisma back up high enough that he's not in the coma.

EDIT: And no, no I don't use the critical fumble tables for combatants. There are very good reasons for that.

The Dark Fiddler
2011-05-30, 02:37 PM
So is the ability to reshape reality on a whim and make other party members obsolete with a few words. Even with the delayed progression casters can still cast higher-level spells reasonably safely. This table provides them an incentive to not do that, sticking with the lower-level spells that only have a 5% chance of something really bad happening. The only problem I see, really, is that some of these will effectively force the party to pull back and wait for the caster to recover.

The problem with this is the same problem with the critical fumble tables for attack rolls; 5% is distressingly common for something disastrous to happen.

desero clades
2011-05-30, 03:37 PM
Maybe to cause a magic fumble you should do a sort of threat. Like when you crit with a weapon you have to roll to confirm it... Maybe on a natural 1 the caster has to roll again (against the same DC) and if he fails then whether is be a natural 1 or not, then the magic fumble occurs.

Just a thought since like it's been said before, 5% is just too common.

Solaris
2011-05-30, 03:59 PM
Maybe to cause a magic fumble you should do a sort of threat. Like when you crit with a weapon you have to roll to confirm it... Maybe on a natural 1 the caster has to roll again (against the same DC) and if he fails then whether is be a natural 1 or not, then the magic fumble occurs.

Just a thought since like it's been said before, 5% is just too common.

I disagree, but my players might agree with y'all - especially since there's really no way for a critical hit as yet, either. Alrighty, I'll put in the threat roll.