List of D&D 3.5e cheeses?

[amazinghat]

I don't suppose there's one? A compilation or index?

[Geigan]

Well I don't know what types are specific to what settings but here's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cheeses)a good start, and then you can just remove the ones you don't want in your setting.

[Lateral]

...

I thought this said 'list of classes,' and that Geigan was joking. Then I re-read the title. O_o

Or did you mean 'list of cheesy D&D optimization tricks?'

[amazinghat]

:annoyed:

How about this, an index or compilation of D&D 3.5e loophole abuses?

[Geigan]

...

I thought this said 'list of classes,' and that Geigan was joking. Then I re-read the title. O_o

Or did you mean 'list of cheesy D&D optimization tricks?'

Buff craft:cheesemaking out the wazoo using similar tricks to the bastketweaving guide (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870302/The_Basket_Weavers_Handbook). Cheesy optimization done easy.

edit: nevermind

[Yukitsu]

It'll kinda come down to personal preference. Some DMs in my group think any teleport at all is pure uncontestable cheese, but when I DM I know teleportation is a self inflicted gunshot wound to the medula whenever you're facing a level 9+ relevant threat for example.

Since you're asking, I'm guessing relatively low optimization and little forum dumpster divin for tricks, so I'm gonna go out on a limb and say anything. Pretty much anything out there is cheesy in the right circumstance or build if you're not aware of it, and weren't prepared to deal with it.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

The Dirty Tricks Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2287.0) may be a good place to start, as might the Psionic Tricks Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10262.0) (which is both forthcoming and available in GitP form via the link in my sig).

What sort of tricks are you looking for? For a particular class or PrC or tactic you might try Brilliant Gameologist's Handbooks (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?board=22.0) subforum. Not everything there is cheese, of course, but a lot of cheesy stuff can be found within.

[Geigan]

I don't think there's any particular list, since 3.5 has so many different options that finding loopholes is like trying to find all the keycodes on a 10 digit number pad. But from memory I can think of a few.

-fell drain sonic snap with easy metamagic on a lvl 1 wizard

-anything involving stacking multiple bonuses from the same ability score on to the same stat (i.e. cha or wis to AC multiple times)

-several spells from spell comp. (maw of chaos, hail of stone, etc)

-precocious apprentice trick to get into prcs early

-most core spells (shapechange, polymorph, gate, etc)

-uberchargers when stacking ridiculous charging bonuses to get more damage than will ever be needed

-hulking hurler

-anything from dragon magazine

-anything involving the divine impetus ability of RKV (though technically most of those don't work because the ability doesn't work right)

-some people claim anything that's not core is cheesy, so you could say all splatbooks

-people say parts of basic mechanics are cheesy so they homebrew parts of the rules, so you could say basic rules are cheesy

really comes down to what you define as cheese really. Cheese is really just a term for when people don't like what another person is able to do with the mechanics. Could you define your definition of cheese?

[Kaeso]

Buff craft:cheesemaking out the wazoo using similar tricks to the bastketweaving guide (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870302/The_Basket_Weavers_Handbook). Cheesy optimization done easy.

edit: nevermind

This I don't get, why is craft(basketweaving) always brought up whenever people talk about cheesy optimization? Is it somekind of inside joke I'm not in on? I always thought nobody took craft or profession except for roleplay reasons or to qualify for a PrC.

[Zaq]

This I don't get, why is craft(basketweaving) always brought up whenever people talk about cheesy optimization? Is it somekind of inside joke I'm not in on? I always thought nobody took craft or profession except for roleplay reasons or to qualify for a PrC.

Well, sure, most craft skills aren't that good.

Basketweaving's abuses are much better-known, though.

[drakir_nosslin]

While not a list of cheese per se this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188138) thread contains a few interesting tricks that are ok by RAW but really breaks most games. It's also a great source if you're looking for buffs :smallwink:

[Lateral]

This I don't get, why is craft(basketweaving) always brought up whenever people talk about cheesy optimization? Is it somekind of inside joke I'm not in on? I always thought nobody took craft or profession except for roleplay reasons or to qualify for a PrC.

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870302/The_Basket_Weavers_Handbook

It's pretty much just an old CharOp joke. (That handbook isn't the origin, but it's the most blatant example.)

[yugi24862]

It comes from someone asked for feat help with a druid and someone else saying take natral spell and skill focus(basketweaving) because you didnt need anything else.

[TroubleBrewing]

I'm personally a big fan of the underwater option. It really stretches the bounds of what 3.5 is capable of.

[Quirp]

You could look in the Test of Spite, they have had some really nice tricks there.

Also, Doc Roc once made a kind of handbook:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137447

[Yorrin]

When I'm looking for some extreme cheese I reference Eldariel's first post in this thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152898)

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

I don't think there's any particular listThe FAIL is FREAKING OVERWHELMING. How do I ... What? I.... 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10... Ahh that's better (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3288.0).


-anything from dragon magazineLet's play a game. We get to take turns opening up random dragon mags (You do have every 3.0 and 3.5 issue to make sure a statement right?) When you find something randomly that's broken I have to find all ten things randomly that aren't. When I find something not broken you have ten tries to find one single broken thing. I wonder who will lose their turn first, eh? I'll go first. I randomly got Drag Mag 137 p69 berseker quality. +1 enhancement gives extra +1 when raging. ITS SO BORKED! Or, if you want something unique to drag mags the nearly NINETY THOUSAND gp sword gives low light vision, always fails its CL check of 9 to dispel darkness, and only alerts to enemies in 60' attack range if you wield it firmly in the ground... I'll buy nine! oh wait I don't have the WBL for that as a twentieth level character

Sometimes you have to play with http://www.shinyshiny.tv/troll.jpg to distinguish them from noo

[Geigan]

*snip*
Calm down man, take a chill pill.

I was not aware of your extensive work on the subject, but I was really just trying to say that finding all the loopholes in 3.5 is like counting the holes in spongecake. Good on you though, and more power to you for your dedication.

As for Dragon magazine I don't consider most of it any more broken than basic 3.5 broken, but most people have a blanket ban on it to prevent cheese at all costs. I'm more trying to say that what is and isn't cheese is subjective, and if you go looking for cheese you'll have lots of different things that people will argue is and isn't cheese.