20th level gestalt 1 shot, does this work?

[Hirax]

I've never played in a gestalt game before, I'm a little confused on how the dual progression works. All I know about what's going to happen is that we're going to try and destroy the Gods, and I figure who better than an ur-priest. Feel free to suggest prcs, most of those wizard levels are just placeholders. Here's what I have so far.


Wizard/bard
Wizard/bard
Wizard/bard
Wizard/bard
Wizard/crusader
Wizard/Ur-priest
Wizard/Ur-priest
Wizard/RKV
Wizard/RKV
Wizard/Ultimate magus
Theurge/sublime chord
Ultimate magus/RKV
Ultimate magus/RKV
Archmage/ultimate magus
Ultimate magus/RKV
Ultimate magus/RKV
Archmage/ultimate magus
Ultimate magus/RKV
Ultimate magus/divineprc
Ultimate magus/divineprc


One of the annoyances I see is that level 1, 4, and 7 for ultimate magus advance your lowest level caster progression, which at ultimate magus level 7 will be bard, and not sublime chord. Is there any way around this?

Otherwise I *think* this makes me cast as an ur-priest 10, sublime chord 9, wizard 20, and bard 6. 10/10/20/7 would be ideal, but I figure I'd check if this even works before I do any further tinkering.

[Kaje]

Well, in normal gestalt, theurge-type classes aren't generally allowed, and you can only have one prc at any given level. Has your group houseruled things differently?

[Hirax]

I was told no class restrictions. I didn't realize they were not normally allowed, though, I'll double check, but I doubt it will be a problem.

[Jack_Simth]

One of the annoyances I see is that level 1, 4, and 7 for ultimate magus advance your lowest level caster progression, which at ultimate magus level 7 will be bard, and not sublime chord. Is there any way around this?
Look up Practiced Spellcaster, and then note that the Ultimate Magus casting advancement is based on caster level, not spell level.

Otherwise I *think* this makes me cast as an ur-priest 10, sublime chord 9, wizard 20, and bard 6. 10/10/20/7 would be ideal, but I figure I'd check if this even works before I do any further tinkering.Ah... you've got a rather MAD build there. Charisma for Bard and Sublime Chord, Wis for Ur-Priest, Int for Wizard. You can't cast your better stuff in armor, so you also need Dex and Con.
Here's an alternate build, as you seem to be going for raw power, and seem to be ignoring the "no dual progressions" bit:
Side A: Bard-6/Mindbender-1 (Bard)/Ur-Priest-2/Contemplative-1(Complete Divine: Grab the Pride Domain, apply casting to Ur-Priest)/Sublime Chord-2/Mystic Theurge(Sublime Chord/Ur-Priest)-8.
Side B: Paladin of Slaughter-2/Swordsage-2/Hexblade-3/Arcane Duelist-2/whatever. You've got 11 free levels on this side - go with LA stuff, anything that boosts Charisma is tasty for this build. You may also want something that grants bonus feats.

Relevant feats:
Skill Focus(Knowledge(religion)) - requirement for Contemplative.
Iron Will, Spell Focus(Evil) - Requirement for Ur-Priest
Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Proficiency (rapier, short sword, dagger, or any variation of these weapons as given in Sword and Fist). - requirement for Arcane Duelist
Practiced Spellcaster(Bard) - your Sublime Chord caster level stacks with your Bardic caster level, and you'll be using your Sublime Chord casting for your offensive stuff (more on this below)
Ascetic Mage - to switch the Wis to AC from Swordsage over to Charisma to AC. Also helps you out if you get stuck in melee somehow.
Mindsight (Lords of Madness) - so you always know what square your intelligent opponent is in.

What you get:
9th level Divine spells (at caster level 11+1/2 your Arcane caster level... sort of) - use these for your utility effects.
9th level Arcane spells (at variable caster level) - use these for your direct-offense effects.
Charisma to Saves (Paladin of Slaughter), and a second time vs. Spells (Hexblade)
Mettle (Hexblade)
Evasion (I'm assuming you get a ring for it)
Reroll 1's on saves (That's why the Pride domain)
Charisma to AC twice (Once from Arcane Duelist, again from Ascetic Mage + Swordsage)
The ability to cast all your spells in light armor.

You want to focus on Charisma with this build, as it covers most of your primary effects.

[TroubleBrewing]

Jack- I'm not seeing the Pride domain in CD. I'm looking at it in the SC, but I'm not sure where it is apart from that. (Not nit-picking, just fact-checking. :smalltongue:)

[deuxhero]

Just go Wizard+Wizard PRC//Warblade or Factotum. Throw in some RKV if you want.

[Jack_Simth]

Jack- I'm not seeing the Pride domain in CD. I'm looking at it in the SC, but I'm not sure where it is apart from that. (Not nit-picking, just fact-checking. :smalltongue:)
Contemplative is from Complete Divine. The Pride domain is from Spell Compendium, page 278-279. Sorry I wasn't clearer on that.

[Hirax]

Look up Practiced Spellcaster, and then note that the Ultimate Magus casting advancement is based on caster level, not spell level.


I think I remember reading somewhere that if a prc lists arcane caster level 5th as a pre req, it means 5 levels in an arcane prc, so fighter4/wizard1+practiced caterer wouldn't count. This is a similar situation, but I'll run it by the DM, they'll probably allow it.

Sadly, I can't use the build you posted. One of the other players in our game read it first and cribbed it before I got home and read your post. :smallbiggrin:

I actually don't mind the multiple casting attributes, though. I had planned on playing a very frail character for fun, to the extent that I'm totally dumping dex and str. I'll probably put a little in con, but I'm going to choose the venerable age category, so it'll probably be at 8, tops. We get 40 point buy, I'm thinking of going 8/8/9/17/17/17.

As far as races and templates, we were told max +5 LA and 5RHD for free, but to not use it for any blatant min maxing, just pick something that would be interesting to play, that you probably wouldn't get a chance to do in a normal game. I'm thinking of just being a draconic doppelganger. Net stats after aging, races, and 5 bumps (at levels 4, 8, etc.) would be 7/5/10/25/25/25. I could spend over 500k of my WBL on +6 enhancement items and +5 inherent bonuses, but that probably wouldn't be worth it, I'll just stick +5 enhancement bonus items to even each stat out to 30.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

5 RHD and +5 LA is free? The strongest choice for a venerable character would probably be Forest Troll with Primordial Giant. Otherwise I'd use Lich, probably on a Draconic Human.

If you want to eat two Fey HD, Gloura (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) with something like Spellwarped or Voidmind would be a strong choice if you want Bard spellcasting. Adding your Cha bonus to AC and saves as a racial quality is pretty good, too.

[NNescio]

I think I remember reading somewhere that if a prc lists arcane caster level 5th as a pre req, it means 5 levels in an arcane prc, so fighter4/wizard1+practiced caterer wouldn't count. This is a similar situation, but I'll run it by the DM, they'll probably allow it.


http://ompldr.org/vOHYyMA/catering-article1.jpg

Sorry, but I couldn't resist.

[Hirax]

Can you tell I had just eaten when I wrote that? :smallredface:

And bah! I can't believe I had completely forgotten lich as a possibility. I think I'll look into spellwarped too. Maybe even phrenic+spellwarped, being mutated by psionics and magic could make for an interesting character. Maybe as an anthromorphic toad, I could be a spellcasting battletoad!