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LrdoftheRngs
2011-05-30, 06:06 PM
I have been playing 3.5e Dungeons and Dragons for around 4 years now, and I have recently started DMing a game with a few of my friends. This is my first time DMing and I am having a hard time creating NPCs that my players like. The first time I ran into this was a week ago. They were in a small town, and the mayor had just been murdered, so there was a power vacuum. There were three candidates for mayor, and (surprisingly) none of the PCs wanted to run. Of the three candidates, one was the BBEG of the adventure, was was a pompous fool, and the third was the one the PCs were supposed to like. The supposedly likable one was an orphan from the slums who just wants to make the city a better place, but has horrible public speaking skills. The PCs were supposed to be able to relate to him and help him with his campaign, eventually winning him the title of mayor. In return, he would be their political contact if they needed a favor. Instead of relating to him, they briefly talked amongst themselves out of character, then decided he was pathetic and ditched him. I thought I had made a likable, relatable NPC, but the players hated him. Any advice for making better and more in-depth NPCs?

dsmiles
2011-05-30, 06:12 PM
Ask you players why they didn't like him. Go the opposite route with the next NPC.

Really, that's the best I can offer. You have to get to know the likes and dislikes of your players, so that you can tailor adventures to them.

Scarlet Tropix
2011-05-30, 06:14 PM
There's a lot of ways to make NPCs likable, but the most important tip I have for out of combat interactions is probably to make NPCs you want to stick around funny. Not clown funny, but witty or sarcastic, perhaps a little self-deprecating. I've dealt with players who are the absolute embodiment of the violent hobo stereotype; but even they hesitate to kill someone who is helpful AND makes them chuckle.

Edit: Not to say that you can't play them seriously mind, but they could still be able to find SOME levity in their life no matter how bad it is.

Jarawara
2011-05-30, 06:16 PM
1) Make more NPC's

2) See which one the players like.

3) *That's* the one the players are supposed to help become mayor.


Let the players decide who is the most similar to them, the underdog, the most deserving of winning the mayor's job. Then go with the story as planned, with the player-chosen NPC in the role of the originally intended 'likeable' guy.

*~*

By the way - this method can also be used in reverse. Watch to see which NPC the players hate the most -- that one can become the BBEG. Works better than just defining one ahead of time, especially if the party was supposed to be working against him and ends up assisting him to win the mayor's job.

Maybe from the player's point of view, the pathetic orphan from the slums is actually slated to be the BBEG of the story? If it works, run with it!

SuperFerret
2011-05-30, 06:29 PM
Find out what real and fictional people your players find likeable and borrow from there.

Shadowknight12
2011-05-30, 06:30 PM
It depends on the maturity of your players. As a caveat, NONE of the characters here are to upstage the PCs at any moment. Despite what I say below, the PCs are still the ones that get to fight the BBEG and thwart his evil plans.

For immature players, what you want is an idol. If the player is playing a stalwart paladin, give him some champion of good that he can see as a role model. If the player is playing an evil rogue, give him a master assassin and so forth. Two things to emphasise here. 1) They must be "cool" (they must have a reputation for having performed the kind of deeds the players themselves aspire to achieve one day). 2) They must not actually feel like a threat to the players. Ways to do this are to make it clear that their time "has passed." They're older, bogged down with paperwork and politics, they can't go out in the field anymore like they used to do in the old days.

For mature players, what you want is what you were aiming for. A balanced character. Someone with virtues and flaws, who tries to be better than they are but are bogged down by their own failings. They should have inner conflict, perhaps a rich backstory, something that makes them interesting but at the same time doesn't FORCE the players to deal with it. It's like a closed door that they can choose to open if they want to explore that sort of thing. I think you have this one pegged down, so I won't say much else.

For players that are neither one nor the other, you have to find what NPCs from shows, movies, books, etc, they like and why. Then see if you can take the essence of what they want to see and dress it in another way.

For all-around advice, though, it's often a good idea to make the character alluring in the way that your players find most appealing. For players who like mysteries and puzzles, make the characters a walking mystery, and tease out drops of information and hints on their true nature and past. For players who love combat, make them their personal nemesis, someone who is their equal and has just as enough trouble defeating them as the players have to defeat her. If they like exploration, give them someone who can take them to places, who has new locations for them to explore, who has new secrets to share with them.

And also, find out what type of relationship the players enjoy the most. Some players enjoy having a memorable enemy and spurn all other kinds of NPCs, others prefer likeable allies and couldn't care less about villains. It really varies from person to person.

EDIT: Ninjas, ninjas everywhere.

EDIT 2: It was brought to my attention that I should clarify something. I don't view immaturity as a negative thing, and I don't regard immature people as inferior or possessing a negative quality in any way whatsoever.

SleepyShadow
2011-05-30, 06:53 PM
As a caveat, NONE of the characters here are to upstage the PCs at any moment.

Unless it is the BBEG him/herself, in which case they should upstage the PCs at least once :smallbiggrin:

Grendus
2011-05-30, 07:17 PM
I think Jarawara has it pegged, instead of having three candidates, one of whom is supposed to be the "right" guy, run it like a California governor campaign - even the subway token guy is running for office! Obviously you don't want to get that extreme, but offer them about five-eight guys, each one of whom plays to a specific and very unique archetype. Whoever the players choose, select his polar opposite as the opponent, and let the players run it as a side quest (do they want to plant evidence on the opponent? diplomance up a few thousand voters? mass suggestion? forge votes? violent coup? ignore politics and go burn down an inn?). Depending on your DM style you can decide if that changes who the BBEG is or just let this give them a political contact to use later.

Gamer Girl
2011-05-30, 07:41 PM
Fiction is a great place to find lots of likeable NPC personalities.


Yours is a good case for a fiction vs fact sort of thing. In fiction people often try to make the perfect world that can never exist in real life. A world where any woman can win a beauty contest, for example. The problem comes in the game is when the players don't share your vision and think along different lines.

Would you vote for a mayor who was an orphan from the slums who just wants to make the city a better place, but has horrible public speaking skills? Maybe you would, but how many people do you think would? Would most people be able to look past his bad skills? You should know the answer is no. Most people would react just like your players did, ''that orphan guy is hopeless''.

In the game you need to tailor NPCs to fit the players. How would the players relate to an was an orphan from the slums who just wants to make the city a better place, but has horrible public speaking skills? Does that sound like someone the players would relate too? You have a group of super heroic fighters and wizards and you think they will like and relate to Gilligan?

The average adventure type of person would react a lot better to someone cool, and so would your players. For example, if a NPC with the character traits of Admiral Adama(''frack this election'') was in the race vs a bad guy and a flop, who do you think the players would have picked.