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View Full Version : [3.5e] Jumper (Base Class, P.E.A.C.H) 99.9% Complete



Big-B
2011-05-30, 11:18 PM
Jumper:


http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z417/RumelDulemeld/jumper.jpg


Philosophy:
The Jumper is a free soul that tends to do whatever he feels right. His laws are only what he believes should be followed. Because of that tendancy, the Jumper usually tries to fight with the law if their paths cross (though that is not neccasarry). The Jumper's starting age is whatever the player desires and they come from all wealth classes. The Jumper does use arcane magic as he sees fit. In the end,this class may be whatever the player desires.

Allignment:
The Jumper may be any allignment, but tends to choose a nuetral or chaotic belief system due to the freedom from their powers. The Jumper in no way is pointed towards either good or evil. They may be whatever the player wishes.

Role In Battle:
The Jumper is more of a stealthy-sneaky charactor, but has the potential to be a melee combatant. They use their selection of spells and ability to teleport to pass by the enemies and are very useful scouts.

Race:
The ability to Jump is a trait passed down genetically. This means that races that don't reproduce (such as warforged) cannot be Jumpers. It is possible for an undead to be a Jumper, but not likely. The ability to Jump originated in the Human Race, so most Jumpers are either Human or Half Human (though it is possible for another race with a far off Human ancestor to become a Jumper)

Class:

HD: d8

Level|BAB|For|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+0|+0|+2|+0|Flash (+1d6), Trapfinding

2nd|+1|+0|+3|+0|Evasion, Quickened Reflexes +1

3rd|+2|+1|+3|+1|Flicker +1, Flash (+1d6, +1 AC)

4th|+3|+1|+4|+1|Bonus Feat

5th|+3|+1|+4|+1|Flash (+2d6, +1 AC), Uncanny Dodge

6th|+4|+2|+5|+2|Forceful Jump, Flicker +2

7th|+5|+2|+5|+2|Flash (+2d6, +1 AC)

8th|+6/+1|+2|+6|+2|Quickened Reflexes +2, Bonus Feat

9th|+6/+1|+3|+6|+3|Flash (+3d6, +2 AC), Flicker +3

10th|+7/+2|+3|+7|+3|Restless Jumps

11th|+8/+3|+3|+7|+3|Flash (+3d6, +3 AC), Improved Evasion

12th|+9/+4|+4|+8|+4|Flicker +4, Bonus Feat

13th|+9/+4|+4|+8|+4|Flash (+4d6, +3 AC)

14th|+10/+5|+4|+9|+4|Quickened Reflexes +3

15th|+11/+6/+1|+5|+9|+5|Flicker +5, Flash (+4d6, +4 AC)

16th|+12/+7/+2|+5|+10|+5|Bonus Feat, Improved Uncanny Dodge

17th|+12/+7/+2|+5|+10|+5|Flash (+5d6, +4 AC)

18th|+13/+8/+3|+6|+11|+6|Flicker +6

19th|+14/+9/+4|+6|+11|+6|Flash (+5d6, +5 AC)

20th|+15/+10/+15|+6|+12|+6|Bonus Feat, Quickened Reflexes +4, Blink


Class Skills:
The Jumper's Class Skills are... Appraise, Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Disguise, Escape Artist, Forgery, Gather Information, Hide, Jump, Knoledge (All), Listen, Move Silently, Open Lock, Perform (All), Search, Sense Motive, Slight of Hand, Spot, Swim, Tumble and Use Rope

Skill Points:
6 + Int Mod (x4 at first level)

Class Features:
The following are class features of the Jumper...

Weapon and Armor Proficiency:
The Jumper is proficient with all Simple Weapons plus 3 Martial Light, One-Handed or Ranged Weapons of the player's choice. The player is proficient only with light armor.

Flash:
The Jumper may use the spell Dimension Door as an (Ex) ability. His Caster Level is equal to his Class Level. The ability is different in a few ways from it's listing. The cast time for this ability is a move action and the range is equal to his base land speed. In this version of the spell, you may act on the same turn as casting (Note: If you have the feat 'Spring Attack' you may not stop in the middle of teleporting then continue, but you may move and teleport after the attack or teleport then move after the attack). The Jumper may use this ability 1/day per Class Level + Dex Mod. Any round the Jumper uses his Flash ability he gains a bonus to damage rolls and his AC...

At levels 1,5,9,13 and 17 the damage of all attacks is increased by 1d6...

At levels 3,7,11,15 and 19 the Jumper's AC is increased by 1...

The bonuses last until the Jumper's next turn begins. The Jumper loses this ability if he wears more than light armor or uses a shield.

Trapfinding:
Jumpers can use the Search skill to locate traps when the task has a Difficulty Class higher than 20.

Finding a nonmagical trap has a DC of at least 20, or higher if it is well hidden. Finding a magic trap has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.

Jumpers can use the Disable Device skill to disarm magic traps. A magic trap generally has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.

A Jumper who beats a trap’s DC by 10 or more with a Disable Device check can study a trap, figure out how it works, and bypass it (with his party) without disarming it.

Evasion:
At 2nd level and higher, a Jumper can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the Jumper is wearing light or no armor.

Quickened Reflexes:
The Jumper's skills allow him to react quickly to many situations. He gains an Insight bonus to his Ref Save, Initiative and AC.

At Second level this ability grants a +1 bonus to said stats...

At Eighth level this bonus increases to +2...

At Fourteenth level the bonus becomes +3...

This stops at level Twenty when the bonus becomes +4...

The Jumper may only benifit from this ability if he is wearing light or no armor and not using a shield.

Flicker:
The Jumper's abilities give him certain bonuses to his Hide and Move Silently skills...

At Third level this grants a +1 bonus increasing by one every three levels becoming +2 at Sixth, +3 at Ninth, +4 at Twelth, +5 at Fifteenth and +6 at Eighteenth...

The Jumper may only benifit from this ability if he is wearing light or no armor and not using a shield.

Bonus Feat:
The Jumper Gains a Bonus Feat at every Fourth level (4,8,12,16 and 10), which he must choose from the following list...

Acrobatic, Agile, Alertness, Athletic,
Blind-Fight, Brachiation†, Combat Expertise, Danger
Sense†, Dodge, Endurance, Far Shot, Great Fortitude,
Hear the Unseen†, Improved Initiative, Improved
Swimming†, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Mobility,
Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Quick Draw, Quick
Reconnoiter†, Rapid Reload, Shot on the Run, Skill
Focus, Spring Attack, Track. ..
(†New feat described in Chapter 3 of Complete Adventurer)

He must meet all the prerequisites for the feat....

Uncanny Dodge:
Starting at 4th level, a Jumper can react to danger before his senses would normally allow him to do so. He retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.

If a Jumper already has uncanny dodge from a different class he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead.

The Jumper may only benifit from this ability if he is wearing light or no armor and not using a shield.

Forceful Jump:
When the Jumper is withen range of an enemy, he may attempt to take that person with him if he teleports. To do so the Jumper must land a touch attack against his target. If it lands the target must make a Will save with a DC of 10 + Class Level + Dex Mod. If it fails the target is forced to follow the Jumper wherever he decides to land (As long as the creature does not exceed the Jumper's wieght limit). If the creature is considered "Helpless" the Jumper may teleport it as long as he is touching the creature. If the Jumper must enter the creatures square to make the Touch Attack, they do not gain an AoO, but any surrounding enemies that would gain an AoO would still gain one.

Restless Jump:
At this point the Jumper need not wait any time to cool down, but still may only teleport once per turn.

Improved Evasion:
This ability works like evasion, except that while the Jumper still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks henceforth he takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless rogue does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

The Jumper may only benifit from this ability if he is wearing light or no armor and not using a shield.

Improved Uncanny Dodge:
A Jumper of 16th level or higher can no longer be flanked.

This defense denies another Rogue the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking him, unless the attacker has at least four more Rogue levels than the target does.

If a character already has uncanny dodge from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.

The Jumper may only benifit from this ability if he is wearing light or no armor and not using a shield.

Blink:
The Jumper gains Greater Blink as an (Ext) ability 1/day/Class Level + Dex Mod. It works as the ability in Complete Arcane with the caster level equaling his Jumper level

The Jumper may not benefit from this ability if he wears medium or heavy armor, or uses a shield


Notes:
-Inspired 100% by the movie 'Jumper'
-Picture made by me :smallbiggrin:
-Very open to critiquing and balancing advice
-Re-did class with major influence by Scout, and a little help from the Rogue

Still taking advice. Done writing class features.

Cipher Stars
2011-05-30, 11:33 PM
Looks quite great so far.
*looks forward to reading class features tomorrow*

NeoSeraphi
2011-05-30, 11:46 PM
It is difficult for me to say anything about the class at this stage, but may I humbly recommend adding Evasion to this class? (As the rogue class feature, level 2)

I think it would be thematically appropriate for a dex-based character to be able to jump away from the fireball and not take any damage.

Tacitus
2011-05-30, 11:56 PM
Hmm... I've seen multiple attempts at a Jumper-inspired class (or in one instance a template), and I'm curious how this one will turn out. If you'd like to be pointed to them for ideas, just ask.

I'm kinda curious why it gets 1d6 sneak attack and then nothing further, but I suppose that'll be addressed once the class features are all fleshed out.

DoomHat
2011-05-31, 12:07 AM
At first glance I thought it was a Super Mario style platforming character written up D&D style.
While teleportation is cool and all, I still can't help but feel disappointed.:smallannoyed:

YouLostMe
2011-05-31, 01:11 AM
I don't want to ruin any celebration, but there is a Jumper (http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Jumper_(3.5e_Class)) class that Rithaniel (a GitP member!) wrote a while back that I believe follows somewhat in keeping with the same movie you're thinking of (I didn't read anything about jumping buildings, jump scars, or a secret society trying to wipe jumpers out, though).

However, it's pretty well-balanced, and I recommend using it for reference in making your class.

Big-B
2011-05-31, 11:40 AM
Looks quite great so far.
*looks forward to reading class features tomorrow*

Thank you :smallbiggrin:


It is difficult for me to say anything about the class at this stage, but may I humbly recommend adding Evasion to this class? (As the rogue class feature, level 2)

I think it would be thematically appropriate for a dex-based character to be able to jump away from the fireball and not take any damage.

That helps... alot actually. That will make this class much better, thanks for the help :smallwink:


Hmm... I've seen multiple attempts at a Jumper-inspired class (or in one instance a template), and I'm curious how this one will turn out. If you'd like to be pointed to them for ideas, just ask.

I'm kinda curious why it gets 1d6 sneak attack and then nothing further, but I suppose that'll be addressed once the class features are all fleshed out.

I went to bed without an idea for level 2 and forgot to clear before saving, sorry for the confusion


At first glance I thought it was a Super Mario style platforming character written up D&D style.
While teleportation is cool and all, I still can't help but feel disappointed.:smallannoyed:

I am trying to avoid the D&D wiki tendancy to overpower my class with random and pointless powers, so it might be a little vague. But hey, it's not as bland as the fighter :smallbiggrin:


I don't want to ruin any celebration, but there is a Jumper (http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Jumper_(3.5e_Class)) class that Rithaniel (a GitP member!) wrote a while back that I believe follows somewhat in keeping with the same movie you're thinking of (I didn't read anything about jumping buildings, jump scars, or a secret society trying to wipe jumpers out, though).

However, it's pretty well-balanced, and I recommend using it for reference in making your class.

I'll be sure to read it for help, thanks

Currently editing class...

NeoSeraphi
2011-05-31, 12:39 PM
That helps... alot actually. That will make this class much better, thanks for the help :smallwink:


You're very welcome. Can't wait to see the updated product.

Cheesy74
2011-05-31, 12:46 PM
My main issue is that the class doesn't have much in the way of features besides the Jump. Don't get me wrong, the Jump idea seems cool, but I feel like Sneak Attack isn't enough to make it viable in combat. Why not a class feature that makes jumping useful in combat or other situations, like rendering adjacent enemies flat-footed to attacks made immediately after a jump or allowing the jumper to become unstable, giving them a miss chance or a bonus to hide/move silently checks from being partially on another plane?

Just throwing out ideas here. The main idea is to give it class features that use jump for things besides teleportation.

EDIT: I just saw that they have a small list of spells. Definitely a good start for alternate features. It'd still be a good idea to put in some alternate uses for jumping, but the class looks pretty solid without it.

Big-B
2011-05-31, 12:54 PM
My main issue is that the class doesn't have much in the way of features besides the Jump. Don't get me wrong, the Jump idea seems cool, but I feel like Sneak Attack isn't enough to make it viable in combat. Why not a class feature that makes jumping useful in combat or other situations, like rendering adjacent enemies flat-footed to attacks made immediately after a jump or allowing the jumper to become unstable, giving them a miss chance or a bonus to hide/move silently checks from being partially on another plane?

Just throwing out ideas here. The main idea is to give it class features that use jump for things besides teleportation.

EDIT: I just saw that they have a small list of spells. Definitely a good start for alternate features. It'd still be a good idea to put in some alternate uses for jumping, but the class looks pretty solid without it.

You underestimate me, sir :smallwink:. I am working on that very thing now, but if you have any advice once you've seen my ideas I'd love to hear them :smallbiggrin:

Still working on class at the moment...

Big-B
2011-05-31, 01:08 PM
I wrote the description for the 'Jump' if any one would like to critique the main part of this class, thanks :smallbiggrin:

Lyndworm
2011-05-31, 01:12 PM
I love the idea of a teleporting Gish, and that's sort of what I want this to be. Without more information though, I'm not sure what it is supposed to be.

There are quite a few teleportationalTM spells and even two Reserve feats. Maybe you could take a look at those for inspiration? The spells that most quickly come to mind are dimension hop, dimension stride, and dimension door. The feats are Dimensional Jaunt and Dimensional Reach.

Edit:
I'm reading Jump now, gimme a sec.

Re-Edit:

Class Skills:
The Jumper's Class Skills are... Appraise, Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Disguise, Escape Artist, Forgery, Gather Information, Hide, Jump, Knoledge (All), Listen, Move Silently, Open Lock, Perform (All), Search, Sense Motive, Slight of Hand, Spot, Swim, Tumble and Use Rope
You have Disable Device, Open Lock, and 6 skill points per level... I feel like Trapfinding should be in there, too.


Weapon and Armor Proficiency:
The Jumper is proficient with all Simple Weapons and all Martial Light, One-Handed and Ranged Weapons, plus 3 Exotic Weapons of the player's choice. The player is proficient with all light and medium armor, plus all shields (except tower shields)
I think all of those proficiencies may be overdoing it. I have a hard time imagining a Jumper in Medium armor thematically, and all of those Exotic Weapons strike me as a balance problem.


Jump:
The core ability of the Jumper, the 'Jump'. When the Jumper wishes to use this ability he may teleport to any area as long as it is no more than double his base land speed and the Jumper has a clear line of sight to the area. This means that the Jumper may move through smoke, tinted glass or even another wizard's portal (as long as it is open and you can see the desired area on the other side), but they may not Jump through magical barriers such as a wall of force (though you may pass through walls of ice, fire, wind and any other wall you can see through).
So far, so good.


The Jumper must wait a few minutes before jumping again due to the sickness from the flux in time. He cannot jump again for 1d10+10 minutes minus 1 for every level in Jumper, plus 1 for every point of Con Mod (Min 1). If the Jumper attempts to Jump sooner than that, he must make a Fort save with a DC of 10 plus the amount of time left that you were supposed to wait (rounded up). If the Jumper makes the save he may Jump again (though whatever time they had left from their previous jump is added to their new wait time), but if the Jumper fails, he does not jump, takes 1d6 that bypasses all damage reduction or protection spells and becomes nauseated for 1d2+1 rounds.
This hits me... poorly. What about undead, who are immune to Fort save effects, or warforged, who are immune to nausea?

Beyond that, it strikes me as a poor mechanic in general. If I can only use my main class feature every 11-20 minutes (minus level and Con) or get punished, I'm probably going to take a different class. It just feels wierd.

As for the bolded parts, their likely just typographical errors. You should probably specify that the DC is calculated by minutes, and that you take 1d6 damage.


The Jumper may Jump 1/day for every level in Jumper, every HD (Any) and point of Dex Mod all added together...
So a Jumper can Jump more than twice as often as a Bard can sing? That doesn't strike me as quite right. At high levels it's all but infinite (due to the one encounter day) and at low levels it's still pretty high (7 at first level, no problem).


At first level this ability takes much concentration making it a Full-Round Action...

At fourth level this ability is easier to control, becoming a Standard Action...

At eighth level this ability flows faster, becoming a Move Action...

At twelth level this ability takes nearly no effert to use, becoming a Swift Action...

At twentieth level this ability takes no thought to activate becoming a Free Action...
Again, this is a little wierd. At levels 1-3 the ability is nearly useless in combat and at level twenty you're essentially everywhere at once. It just seems like a harsh discrepancy.

NeoSeraphi
2011-05-31, 01:16 PM
I would like to request clarification on the Jump feature. When you say he must wait ..."Plus 1 for each point of Con mod", does that mean you extend the duration by 1 minute for each point of Constitution modifier the Jumper possesses? It seems to me like it would make sense (and you intended) for the Jumper to be able to jump sooner because of his Constitution modifier. If that's the case, you should reword it to say, minus one for each point of his Constitution modifier.

Also, you stated that the Jump ability requires a Fortitude save to jump again before his sickness wears off, and the DC is 10 + the amount of time that he has left to wait. Is this amount of time equal to the amount of minutes he has left or the amount of rounds he has left? (A minute is 10 rounds). If it is equal to the amount of minutes instead of rounds, what is the DC if he has less than a minute remaining?

Veklim
2011-05-31, 01:33 PM
Perhaps a fixed table listing DCs for certain time intervals makes sense. There will come a point when the class will make the save as it stands now, well before the time when con mod + class level hit 20 and guarantee no wait, but that's not likely to be an issue.
Eagerly awaiting more features!

Wyntonian
2011-05-31, 01:41 PM
After reading the books and watching the movie, I think it might be a good idea to add a "Reflexive jump" ability (you might want to switch something out for it, i dunno) where a jumper can jump away as an immediate action in response to an attack, but with little/no control over where they go. This could be the grenadelike weapon randomness tool, and they go like 1d10x5 feet in that direction, but are only able to take a single action on their next round (disorientation, etc). Just a thought, but you might want to work that in.

Big-B
2011-05-31, 02:19 PM
I love the idea of a teleporting Gish, and that's sort of what I want this to be. Without more information though, I'm not sure what it is supposed to be.

There are quite a few teleportationalTM spells and even two Reserve feats. Maybe you could take a look at those for inspiration? The spells that most quickly come to mind are dimension hop, dimension stride, and dimension door. The feats are Dimensional Jaunt and Dimensional Reach.

Edit:
I'm reading Jump now, gimme a sec.

Re-Edit:

You have Disable Device, Open Lock, and 6 skill points per level... I feel like Trapfinding should be in there, too.


I think all of those proficiencies may be overdoing it. I have a hard time imagining a Jumper in Medium armor thematically, and all of those Exotic Weapons strike me as a balance problem.


So far, so good.


This hits me... poorly. What about undead, who are immune to Fort save effects, or warforged, who are immune to nausea?

Beyond that, it strikes me as a poor mechanic in general. If I can only use my main class feature every 11-20 minutes (minus level and Con) or get punished, I'm probably going to take a different class. It just feels wierd.

As for the bolded parts, their likely just typographical errors. You should probably specify that the DC is calculated by minutes, and that you take 1d6 damage.


So a Jumper can Jump more than twice as often as a Bard can sing? That doesn't strike me as quite right. At high levels it's all but infinite (due to the one encounter day) and at low levels it's still pretty high (7 at first level, no problem).


Again, this is a little wierd. At levels 1-3 the ability is nearly useless in combat and at level twenty you're essentially everywhere at once. It just seems like a harsh discrepancy.

I'll work on balancing, it's my main concern, thanks :smallbiggrin:


I would like to request clarification on the Jump feature. When you say he must wait ..."Plus 1 for each point of Con mod", does that mean you extend the duration by 1 minute for each point of Constitution modifier the Jumper possesses? It seems to me like it would make sense (and you intended) for the Jumper to be able to jump sooner because of his Constitution modifier. If that's the case, you should reword it to say, minus one for each point of his Constitution modifier.

Also, you stated that the Jump ability requires a Fortitude save to jump again before his sickness wears off, and the DC is 10 + the amount of time that he has left to wait. Is this amount of time equal to the amount of minutes he has left or the amount of rounds he has left? (A minute is 10 rounds). If it is equal to the amount of minutes instead of rounds, what is the DC if he has less than a minute remaining?

I'll clear up the grammar when the entire class is up, don't worry :smallwink:


Perhaps a fixed table listing DCs for certain time intervals makes sense. There will come a point when the class will make the save as it stands now, well before the time when con mod + class level hit 20 and guarantee no wait, but that's not likely to be an issue.
Eagerly awaiting more features!

That is kind of the point... I hoped that after a few levels there is nearly no wait. Do you see any major problem with that? :smallfrown:


After reading the books and watching the movie, I think it might be a good idea to add a "Reflexive jump" ability (you might want to switch something out for it, i dunno) where a jumper can jump away as an immediate action in response to an attack, but with little/no control over where they go. This could be the grenadelike weapon randomness tool, and they go like 1d10x5 feet in that direction, but are only able to take a single action on their next round (disorientation, etc). Just a thought, but you might want to work that in.

That's a good idea, I'll work on it...

Back to work...

Veklim
2011-05-31, 02:32 PM
That is kind of the point... I hoped that after a few levels there is nearly no wait. Do you see any major problem with that? :smallfrown:

No, not a problem, just wondering why you don't give it a fixed amount which decends through the levels, modified by Con mod. Would make it a damned sight simpler, still allows a high Con character to get there before a low Con one, and avoids that nasty bit of arithmetic. If you wish, however, you could put it like this: 1D10+10-(Con mod + class level), and save on MUCH confusion.

Big-B
2011-05-31, 04:21 PM
Finished typing everything. I'm now re-reading and making the class more balanced. In need of help now more than ever! :smallbiggrin:

Big-B
2011-05-31, 04:41 PM
No, not a problem, just wondering why you don't give it a fixed amount which decends through the levels, modified by Con mod. Would make it a damned sight simpler, still allows a high Con character to get there before a low Con one, and avoids that nasty bit of arithmetic. If you wish, however, you could put it like this: 1D10+10-(Con mod + class level), and save on MUCH confusion.

Great Advice. I finished fixing the big problems and am now tweaking little details

The Dark Fiddler
2011-05-31, 04:50 PM
The spells known table is a bit wonky, giving sells known before the jumper can cast (and then decreasing that number).

Also, you've basically made a slightly staggered full caster with other class features and think it's underpowered? :smallconfused:

Mayhem
2011-05-31, 05:03 PM
So I'm assuming jumping within an enemie's reach does not provoke an attack of opportunity? Maybe you should clarify that.
Actually that's a cool idea for a feat, 'anticipate jump' that gives a jump hunter an attack of opportunity if a jumper 'jumps' into his reach.

Big-B
2011-05-31, 05:04 PM
The spells known table is a bit wonky, giving sells known before the jumper can cast (and then decreasing that number).

Also, you've basically made a slightly staggered full caster with other class features and think it's underpowered? :smallconfused:

Oh, didn't notice that. I'll lower the spell casting abilities...

Big-B
2011-05-31, 05:05 PM
So I'm assuming jumping within an enemie's reach does not provoke an attack of opportunity? Maybe you should clarify that.
Actually that's a cool idea for a feat, 'anticipate jump' that gives a jump hunter an attack of opportunity if a jumper 'jumps' into his reach.

Hmm... That is a good feat... I will clarify more, thanks

Lyndworm
2011-05-31, 11:26 PM
So I'm assuming jumping within an enemie's reach does not provoke an attack of opportunity? Maybe you should clarify that.
Actually that's a cool idea for a feat, 'anticipate jump' that gives a jump hunter an attack of opportunity if a jumper 'jumps' into his reach.

Hmm... That is a good feat... I will clarify more, thanks
I would reccomend allowing the feat to apply to all teleportation effects and not just Jumps. Otherwise, a cool feat idea indeed.



Some thoughts on the class (SFL):
May I suggest allowing the Jumper to use lower-level Jump times, if he so chooses? Then you could cast a Swift action spell and use a Move action Jump followed by a Standard action attack and a Free action attack at 8th level and above. As it stands, you lose tis ability at 12th level.

The spell progression is quite wonky... I'm honestly not a fan of anything that doesn't start with spells and still winds up with ninth level casting. I also find it very odd that they can't cast any Teleportation spells. May I suggest a more laid back progression and maybe a custom list, focusing on personal buffs and movement? Something like the Duskblade, or maybe Bard. It's spell list could be an "all known" deal, like Beguilers. That fits the feel of the class to me, but your mileage may vary.

The Charging Jump ability is incredibly vague, and doesn't seem to define the term 'move' or refer to a Move action.

Targeted Jump can technically take away weapons and armor without a save as it's currently written. Is this intentional?

The Blink ability should probably be renamed; I was expecting a miss chance, for example.

Forceful Jump seems to do very little damage at the level it's gained. 1d6+Cha under very specific conditions is basically a fluff ability at level 17.

Repetative Jump is basically useless. At 19th level you have to wait 1d10-9+Con minutes. Anyone with a Con of 12 or higher gains no benefit.

The class seems a little MAD, to be honest. It seems to need Dex and Con equally and have a focus on Cha, plus a good Str for any melee capability. It's a little daunting.
Sorry to run on like that. Hopefully I'm at least a little helpful.

Big-B
2011-05-31, 11:32 PM
I would reccomend allowing the feat to apply to all teleportation effects and not just Jumps. Otherwise, a cool feat idea indeed.



Some thoughts on the class (SFL):
May I suggest allowing the Jumper to use lower-level Jump times, if he so chooses? Then you could cast a Swift action spell and use a Move action Jump followed by a Standard action attack and a Free action attack at 8th level and above. As it stands, you lose tis ability at 12th level.

The spell progression is quite wonky... I'm honestly not a fan of anything that doesn't start with spells and still winds up with ninth level casting. I also find it very odd that they can't cast any Teleportation spells. May I suggest a more laid back progression and maybe a custom list, focusing on personal buffs and movement? Something like the Duskblade, or maybe Bard. It's spell list could be an "all known" deal, like Beguilers. That fits the feel of the class to me, but your mileage may vary.

The Charging Jump ability is incredibly vague, and doesn't seem to define the term 'move' or refer to a Move action.

Targeted Jump can technically take away weapons and armor without a save as it's currently written. Is this intentional?

The Blink ability should probably be renamed; I was expecting a miss chance, for example.

Forceful Jump seems to do very little damage at the level it's gained. 1d6+Cha under very specific conditions is basically a fluff ability at level 17.

Repetative Jump is basically useless. At 19th level you have to wait 1d10-9+Con minutes. Anyone with a Con of 12 or higher gains no benefit.

The class seems a little MAD, to be honest. It seems to need Dex and Con equally and have a focus on Cha, plus a good Str for any melee capability. It's a little daunting.
Sorry to run on like that. Hopefully I'm at least a little helpful.

Will work on this all tomorrow *yawn*, I'm a little tired... Thanks for all the help, though :smallbiggrin:

MutatedSeaBass
2011-06-01, 08:26 AM
Lol dimension door free action

Big-B
2011-06-01, 08:29 AM
Lol dimension door free action

I'm not to worried about originality as I am about balance :smallbiggrin:

MutatedSeaBass
2011-06-01, 08:44 AM
I'm not to worried about originality as I am about balance :smallbiggrin:

That isnt balanced at all. At all.

Making a full critique.

MutatedSeaBass
2011-06-01, 09:11 AM
Honestly, this is broken. Horribly, horribly broken. It might be a cool idea, but you have to balance the fluff with the crunch, and the crunch just tidal waves the fluff.

In general, making classes based on movies or books or what have you is a terrible idea, because such things are not designed with 3.5 DnD rules in mind. You either come up with something horrifically overpowered (as here), or something that fails to resemble the source of inspiration.

Probably my biggest criticism is the presence of arcane spells. A Jumper jumps- thats his thing. All his focus shoud be going into manipulating that power. It's overkill as it is, what with the sheer number of jumps they can make, evasion, d8 HD, and basically the whole mess of jumping tricks they have with jumps that somehow have momentum even though there is no acceleration involved. But any one of these things, combined with spell advancement, means that any class not capable of healing is utterly obsolete.

You say that spells are derived from the jumper's natural talent, but so are the spells cast by a sorcerer. The ASF issue is a matter of movement, not talent. The same goes for material components and verbal components- all arcane spells have them for good reason. Somatic components, the requirement that certain movements and gestures be made, is the whole reason there is ASF in the first place. These things are indicative of arcane spellcasting, and removing them removes an important limiter on arcanists' power.

If you MUST have any spells at all, go the paladin/ranger/hexblade route and cut the spell levels and advancement rate down to their own. There is no excuse for spells at all, let alone 9th level.

This whole thing looks too specialized to be a base class at all. Make it into a 10 level PrC, take out the spells, and reduce the HD to d6 and you have a balanced class. But the whole concept of teleportation is just too exploitable to have for a base class, and they advane with too much power over it. I'm sorry, but the only redeeming feature at all I can see here is the fluff, and that's pretty mediocre as it is.

Tvtyrant
2011-06-01, 09:35 AM
I think an easier way to do this would be to simply steal the blink dogs' abilities/Shadowcasters' Flicker, and then add the momentum stuff from there. Letting someone teleport more then once per round seems a little OP.

I'm not sure why this class needs casting at all. Give it all of the forms of telepork/Planeshift as 1/day SLAs that you gain as you go up in levels and you don't get nearly the "Tier 1 but better" effect you have here.

Big-B
2011-06-01, 12:52 PM
I'm thinking of getting rid of most of the class, reducing (probably completely getting rid of) spellcasting and giving it more of a scout/stealth feel... Any ideas?

Lyndworm
2011-06-01, 01:25 PM
You might want to look at the Flashblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8760711&postcount=1) for ideas. I love it, but I'd change the entry requirements to BAB +5 and the ability to cast any Teleportation spell; I'd also change the spell casting to be 6/10 like the Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327).

Hopefully this helps you a little.



I had an idea for turning the Jump class feature into SLAs that you might be interested in hearing. Something like the ability to use dimension hop every 1d6-class level rounds, which becomes At-Will at 6th level. Also at 6th you'd get dimension stride every 1d6-1/2 class level rounds, which becomes At-Will at 12th level. Also at 10th you'd get dimension door every 1d6-1/3 class level rounds, which becomes At-Will at 18th level. Sprinkle in abilities to taste, like increasing the cool-off time and adding damage to nearby enemies or reducing casting to a Move action. I would suggest no spells, but a Duskblade-like or Haxblade-like progression with a custom list would be best.

Big-B
2011-06-02, 09:55 PM
I remade the class near completly. Any new ideas or advice? I need some tips for a few empty slots that I'm having trouble filling...

Lyndworm
2011-06-02, 10:36 PM
I like it, so far. It seems almost like a Scout ACF, though, to be honest.

Skilled Reflexes comes really late... You can take the feat Agile Athlete to do the exact same thing at first level.

I also feel like the Flash ability's range should increase, and you may want to change the description from dimension door to dimension hop. Dimension door has the oft overlooked sentence of "After using this spell, you can’t take any other actions until your next turn." Dimension hop has no such entry (to the best of my knowledge), and also has a Close range rather than Long.

Big-B
2011-06-02, 10:56 PM
I like it, so far. It seems almost like a Scout ACF, though, to be honest.

Skilled Reflexes comes really late... You can take the feat Agile Athlete to do the exact same thing at first level.

I also feel like the Flash ability's range should increase, and you may want to change the description from dimension door to dimension hop. Dimension door has the oft overlooked sentence of "After using this spell, you can’t take any other actions until your next turn." Dimension hop has no such entry (to the best of my knowledge), and also has a Close range rather than Long.

I hoped that it would mirror the Scout... It's like any other Stealth class, only this one has the Flash ability... I feel most classes follow the cookie cutter outlines to begin with, is that bad? :smalleek:

I thought so... I'll have to find another replacement ability

Where can I find Dimension Hop? What book is it in?

Lyndworm
2011-06-02, 11:02 PM
I hoped that it would mirror the Scout... It's like any other Stealth class, only this one has the Flash ability... I feel most classes follow the cookie cutter outlines to begin with, is that bad? :smalleek:
Not necessarily, no. I actually like classes with a discernible chassis.


I thought so... I'll have to find another replacement ability
I'd make a suggestion, but I'm about tapped out. Sorry. :smallfrown:


Where can I find Dimension Hop? What book is it in?
Player's Handbook II, I believe. It's a 2nd level Sorcerer/Wizard and Duskblade spell.

Tvtyrant
2011-06-02, 11:45 PM
I think it is really good! I would totally play this :D One thing that you might do is give it "improved blinking" like the spell rather than Skilled Reflexes.

Big-B
2011-06-02, 11:48 PM
I think it is really good! I would totally play this :D One thing that you might do is give it "improved blinking" like the spell rather than Skilled Reflexes.

Where can I find improved blink?

Lyndworm
2011-06-02, 11:56 PM
He probably means Greater Blink, which is from C. Arcane, C. Divine, and the Spell Compendium. I think that all three versions are the same, but I could be mistaken.

Tvtyrant
2011-06-03, 12:33 AM
He probably means Greater Blink, which is from C. Arcane, C. Divine, and the Spell Compendium. I think that all three versions are the same, but I could be mistaken.

This. Basically your character is constantly teleporting back and forth about an inch to prevent getting hit.

Big-B
2011-06-03, 02:11 AM
This. Basically your character is constantly teleporting back and forth about an inch to prevent getting hit.

Hmmm... I don't know... It feels kind of like a random added on bonus with nothing very relevant, but I'll make sure to at least read it :smallwink:

Veklim
2011-06-03, 10:22 AM
Hmmm... I don't know... It feels kind of like a random added on bonus with nothing very relevant, but I'll make sure to at least read it :smallwink:

I dunno...seems bang on the money imo, logical advancement based upon low end abilities. This is looking like a far more balanced and thought-out clas now, bit of a shame about losing all the teleport enemy tricks from your earlier incarnation, but it's far more workable this way, and there's always PrCs :smallbiggrin:


I like it, so far. It seems almost like a Scout ACF, though, to be honest.

I agree in principle but don't think that's a bad thing in honesty. I would like to point out the D6 HD though, looking at the rest of the class, including largely the skirmish stuff, it's gonna be a little weak, even with all the jumping. The Fort save is low and it's only D6, yet you expect this class to get in and out of combat on a regular basis. I'd think D8 to be a little more fitting.

Big-B
2011-06-06, 09:13 PM
Sorry that it has taken me so long to update my class :smalleek:... I'm on a trip and I hate editing large posts on my phone (It takes far too long to be worth while)

Lyndworm
2011-06-06, 09:18 PM
I've only just noticed this, but why are Jumpers proficient with Medium armor if none of their abilities work while wearing it?

Big-B
2011-06-06, 09:19 PM
I've only just noticed this, but why are Jumpers proficient with Medium armor if none of their abilities work while wearing it?

Good question... But I have no answer, I thought I already fixed that? Hmm...

Cipher Stars
2011-06-06, 09:21 PM
hmm...

Now where are the paladins I wonder :P

Big-B
2011-06-06, 11:39 PM
I am almost done making the class...

@Worm: If you give me a way to find the Dimension Hop ability I will try to use it... It was not in the handbook as far as I know

Big-B
2011-06-06, 11:47 PM
I believe I'm done, but I want to give you all final say... Any more problems? :smalleek:

Lyndworm
2011-06-07, 12:12 AM
If you give me a way to find the Dimension Hop ability I will try to use it... It was not in the handbook as far as I know
It's definitely in the PHb2, but it does not do quite what I said that it did... It teleports a touched creature 5ft per two caster levels, not Close range. Google leads me to believe that it's on p120, but that could be wrong. I don't feel like getting out my stuff right now to check, sorry. :smallredface:

Big-B
2011-06-07, 12:17 AM
It's definitely in the PHb2, but it does not do quite what I said that it did... It teleports a touched creature 5ft per two caster levels, not Close range. Google leads me to believe that it's on p120, but that could be wrong. I don't feel like getting out my stuff right now to check, sorry. :smallredface:

That Ctrl+F function has so many bugs, I'll look again :smallwink:

Lyndworm
2011-06-07, 01:06 AM
I don't think that Restless Jumps works as intended... Flash doesn't have a listed cool down for it to reduce.

Maybe lower Blink to level 10, and make it Dex mod/day?

For a capstone you could allow an additional Flash as a Swift action (then you can Flash + Full Attack). I know it would certainly make me think harder about whether I want to PrC/multiclass.



It's completely Fluffy, but I'm not a huge fan of the name Flicker for the stealth bonuses; it actually sounds like a better name for the Blink ability. I'd suggest changing the stealth bonuses to an ability called Light Step or Flash of Shadow or something.

Actually, now that I think about it, stealth bonuses seem a little out of place... maybe change it to Balance, and Tumble bonuses or Climb and Jump bonuses? It seems to synchronize better with all of the movement related abilities (Evasion, Quickened Reflexes, Uncanny Dodge), too.

Big-B
2011-06-09, 07:40 PM
I don't think that Restless Jumps works as intended... Flash doesn't have a listed cool down for it to reduce.

Maybe lower Blink to level 10, and make it Dex mod/day?

For a capstone you could allow an additional Flash as a Swift action (then you can Flash + Full Attack). I know it would certainly make me think harder about whether I want to PrC/multiclass.



It's completely Fluffy, but I'm not a huge fan of the name Flicker for the stealth bonuses; it actually sounds like a better name for the Blink ability. I'd suggest changing the stealth bonuses to an ability called Light Step or Flash of Shadow or something.

Actually, now that I think about it, stealth bonuses seem a little out of place... maybe change it to Balance, and Tumble bonuses or Climb and Jump bonuses? It seems to synchronize better with all of the movement related abilities (Evasion, Quickened Reflexes, Uncanny Dodge), too.

Do you really think Greater Blink should be at level 10? What about Blink at 10 and Greater Blink as a capstone?

Lyndworm
2011-06-11, 09:43 PM
Do you really think Greater Blink should be at level 10? What about Blink at 10 and Greater Blink as a capstone?
You're probably right on that one. :smallredface: