View Full Version : Battle Dancer [PEACH]

2006-07-13, 10:31 PM

The Battle Dancer combines the grace of dance with their natural might.

Class Skills: The Battle Dancer's class skills are:
Balance, Craft, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Perform [Dance], Profession, Search, Spot, and Tumble.
Skill Points: 4+INT modifier
Hit Die: D8
LEVEL BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1 +1 +2 +2 +0 Battle Dance 1/day, Dance Fighting +1D6, Fast Movement
2 +2 +3 +3 +0 Bonus Feat
3 +3 +3 +3 +1 -
4 +4 +4 +4 +1 Uncanny Dodge
5 +5 +4 +4 +1 Bonus Feat, Battle Dance 2/day
6 +6 +5 +5 +2 Evasion, Trap Sense +2
7 +7 +5 +5 +2 Improved Uncanny Dodge Dance Fighting +2D6
8 +8 +6 +6 +2 Bonus Feat
9 +9 +6 +6 +3 Improved Evasion, Battle Dance 3/day
10 +10 +7 +7 +3 Dance Fighting +3D6
11 +11 +7 +7 +3 Bonus Feat
12 +12 +8 +8 +4 -
13 +13 +8 +8 +4 Dance Fighting +4D6, Battle Dance 4/day, greater dance
14 +14 +9 +9 +4 Bonus Feat
15 +15 +9 +9 +4 Trap Sense +5
16 +16 +10 +10 +5 Dance Fighting +5D6
17 +17 +10 +10 +5 Bonus Feat, Battle Dance 5/day
18 +18 +11 +11 +6 Tireless Dance
19 +19 +11 +11 +6 Dance Fighting +6D6
20 +20 +12 +12 +6 Masterful Dance

Battle Dance (EX): A Battle Dancer can enter a graceful dance of death a certain number of times per day. While in this dance, the battle dancer gains a +4 bonus on Strength and Dexterity, but takes a -2 penalty on fortitude saves. The Battle Dance lasts 3 Rounds+The battle dancer's newly improved strength or dexterity (Whether strength or dexterity is applied is chosen at 1st level and cannot be changed). A Battle Dancer is fatigued after using Battle Dance. The Battle Dancer cannot cast spells or use intelligence or wisdom based skills while dancing.

Dance Fighting: A Battle Dancer may make an attack roll using his Perform [Dance] modifier as a full-round action. If he does this, the battle dancer deals the indicated amount of amount of extra damage. The Battle Dancer cannot critical on this roll. Note that the Battle Dancer's normal attack bonus does not apply: It is done completely with perform [Dance].

Fast Movement: As barbarian class ability

Bonus Feat: Once every 3 levels, the Battle Dancer gains a bonus feat selected from the following list. He must still meet the prerequisites for this feat: Acrobatic, Agile, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Improved Initiative, Quick Draw, Run, Two-Weapon Fighting, Two Weapon Defense, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, some from other noncore sources, usually those dealing with mobility. They can also take any feat applying to a barbarian's rage and apply it to their Battle Dance.

Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge: At 4th level, the Battle Dancer retains his Dexterity bonus to Armor Class even when flat-footed or attacked by someone who is invisible. The Dancer does not keep it if they are immobilized. At 7th level the Battle Dancers enemies no longer gain bonuses for flanking him.

Greater Dance: At 13th level, the Battle Dancer gains a +6 bonus to Strength and Dexterity when dancing, instead of +4.

Tireless Dance: At 17th level, the Battle Dancer is no longer fatigued after using a Battle Dance.

Masterful Dance: At 20th level, the Battle Dancer gains a +8 bonus to strength and Dexterity while dancing, instead of +6.

How's it look? Seems a wee bit overpowered to me, but looking for criticism and such. REASONABLE CRITICISM.

2006-07-13, 10:53 PM
Yes, it looks overpowered to me too. Except for HD, I can't find a way to prefer barbs to them.

First, the Battle Dance is more powerful than the Rage ability. The Battle Dancer should become fatigued after it.

Second, you look like you used 3e Uncanny Dodge. It's been change into Uncanny Dodge (2nd level for a barb) and Improved Uncanny Dodge (5th level for a barb).

Third, Dance Fighting is a very powerful ability. I suggest limiting the number of time usable per day. The best way would be an ability score (int, wis, cha) since it'd force the Battle Dancer to have more than just a good Dex and good Con.

Fourth, it don't need that many bonus feats. Either slow the progression or remove them.

Fifth (and last ;)), why Trap Sense? You know what I'd do to nerf that and stay flavorful. Replace by Improved Initiative.

Well, that'd be my reasonable criticism. Hope you like it. :)

Fualkner Asiniti
2006-07-13, 10:56 PM
Trap sence seems out of place. and the bonus feats, you can keep them, but they're a little odd. you should have some sort of penelty for using your perform skill besides no crit. If I'm a lvl 4 battle dancer, I could have +7/+2, and I'd be able to hit very well armored enimies for those levels. maybe half damage would be a good balencer, or perhaps you draw an attack of opprituity.

pretty good, but needs work.

2006-07-13, 11:02 PM
It's overpowered. Probably significantly. You've kept most of the defining (and best) abilities of a barbarian and added 6 bonus feats, a second good save, evasion, and changed some of the abilities to lessen inherent limitations. Also, it's missing some information...what armor and weapons will the class be able to use?

As for specific abilities...

Battle Dance - I don't really see the logic behind a dance increasing strength or preventing spell and skill use. Moving past the logic, I'd recommend dropping the limitations on spell and skill use as well as the Fort save negative (why would a class take a negative on a good save anyway?) and drop the bonus feats to make up for the increased usefulness of the ability.

Dance Fighting - I'm not certain what you intend here...is he adding his Perform (Dance) skill to his AB or replacing his AB with it? The first method is granting a 95% chance of a hit (probably only fail on a 1) and the second could do the same if the character invests the feats and items into raising his perform skill. I'd recommend adding extra damage equal to the character's ranks in the skill instead of using the skill as (or in addition to) the AB. I'd also recommend stating the extra damage isn't multiplied on a critical rather than making criticals impossible with this attack.

2006-07-13, 11:02 PM
I thought the penalty was that he could only make one single attack per round with that. So even if your BAB allows three, if you choose to use Dance Fighting, you do only one.

That, along with a very limited number of time per day should do the trick.

Edit: Simu-posted. And I think Raum's idea with Battle Dance is really good.

2006-07-13, 11:03 PM
Hm. Not so sure about the Base Attack Bonus. I'd be more comfortable if it had a rogue or monk's BAB.

2006-07-13, 11:12 PM
This sounds incredibly like the Swashbuckler core class or the Duelist prestige class, flavorwise. Not to mention that I'm pretty sure "Battle Dancer" has been used before.

It seems pretty overpowered to me too.

This class gets as many bonus feats as a level 10 fighter, gets an ability equivalent to a barbarian's level 20 rage, evasion and trap sense. It's basically a barbarian on fighter steroids.

I don't understand why battle dance would increase the character's strength. It's supposed to be masterful and graceful, right? So wouldn't it only improve dexterity? That's pretty potent already with weapon finesse. And the thing is: why would it improve ability scores? Rage has an excuse since the rage can be interpreted as literally causing physiological and hormonal changes in the barbarian through sheer force of emotion. But when dancing, why would your dexterity improve? Wouldn't the power of your dance instead be limited by your dexterity?

I would change the battle dance into +to damage, +to AC and +to hit, since that seems like your original intention, and have it limited by his dexterity modifier instead.

I think you should get rid of the bonus feats, all of them. Those should be fighter exclusive. Even a barbarian has levels where he gets no special abilities, and this looks to me like a dex based barbarian. I think the amazing saves and skill points, increased benefits from needing only dexterity (if he uses weapon finesse) as opposed to the barbarian needing dex, strength AND constitution, are enough to make up for his lack of medium armor (I think since this is a dex based class you should restrict it to only light armor) and lower hit dice.

2006-07-13, 11:17 PM
Now that adriankas mentions it, yeah! why would the battle dance give a bonus to strength? I agree with +to hit and AC, but not really to damage. Combined with weapon finesse, you're almost guaranteed to hit, and i think a battle dance is supposed to do just that: hit, hit, hit, rather than "swing really hard and hope you hit".
EDIT: And I suppose a dance would get you into the correct state of mind, ya know? Kinda like getting into your own tempo and wavelength that allows you to move in a way that you normally would not. Also the dancing would probably be confusing to the opponent as well.

2006-07-14, 01:29 PM
Hmmm. How about while battle dancing, you can use your dexterity modifier for damage instead of your strength modifier?

I'd also make it more of a "dance". Say that the battle dancer is required to move at least half their movement rate in a round and can attack anyone in their reach during that round. They still provoke AoOs for movement (unless tumbling). The dancer must make a perform dance check with a DC of 15 + 5 per opponent/attack after the first. A single attack roll is made, with that attack roll being applied to each opponent that the dancer made a successful check on. At least 5' must be moved between each attack, though more than one attack can be made against the same opponent.

Kind of like whirlwind attack, but over a distance, and having to make checks.

Also encourages a high charisma to help with the perform check.

I'd drop fast movement from the first level, move it to 3rd or 4th.

At about 5th level, I'd add an ability so the battle dancer can treat one opponent as flat footed if a high enough perform check is made (perhaps +10/attack over what is otherwise needed). Add one more opponent per 5 levels afterward (so up to 3 at 20th level).

I don't see why the battle dancer would have listen, search, or spot as class skills. Much less hide or move silently.

This class is like a smorgasbord of all the "cool things" crammed into one progression. :)

I'd also drop trap sense. Since the class concentrates on movement ("dancing") I'd instead give it a good reflex save and be done with it.

Not sure if I'd keep the Dancing Fighting ability or drop it. In either case, if keeping it, I'd make it a precision attack (like sneak attack or the scout's... whateveritwascalled). Though I suggest dropping it and using dexterity for damage as I mentioned above. Dex for damage on melee weapons is pretty rare (I think I've seen one feat and one PrC that allowed it, but don't remember where).

Oh, and with the above changes to Battle Dance, make it usable 1/round per day up to their charisma modifier. That'll also make Cha a desirable stat for this class.

Note that in UA, it was pretty much declared that a fighter's bonus feats and a rogue's sneak attack were worth the same, so having and ability like SA and bonus feats, even if less of each, is probably overwhelming.

I rather like the idea behind the class, though. May fiddle more with it to make a PrC for my campaign. :D


Lord Iames Osari
2006-07-14, 01:33 PM
The theme of this class reminds me strongly of the Dervish PrC in Complete Warrior. As such, it seems a bit redundant, and I personally prefer the idea of a dancing PrC to a dancing basic class.

It is a bit overpowered, but I have nothing to add that others haven't already said.

2006-07-15, 10:55 AM
The reason you can use Dexterity OR Strength for your battle dancer is because there's kinda two "paths" - You can do a bunch of damage, or you can be quick. It's like this: The strong one does slower dances than the fast one...

But if you look, the battle dancer is indeed fatigued after using battle dance.

2006-07-15, 12:48 PM
I'd replace the battle dance with the dance of the dervish from the Complete Warrior and increase the bonus to attack and damge every three levels. So at lvl 19 it'd be a +7 bonus to attacks and damage.

2006-07-15, 04:46 PM
No, I considered it though.

2006-07-15, 04:51 PM
The reason you can use Dexterity OR Strength for your battle dancer is because there's kinda two "paths" - You can do a bunch of damage, or you can be quick. It's like this: The strong one does slower dances than the fast one...

How about you limit it to dexterity only? Leave strength to the barbarian. Dexterity works well with the flavor, but strength? Not really. Leave strength for the hulkers. They'll need it when the dancer cuts quickly into a thousand pieces ;D.

2006-07-15, 04:58 PM
I'll consider it.

2008-02-07, 10:00 PM
how about having the 'battle dance' ability simply lets you swap your DEX for CHA for any finesseable weapons?

also, exactly how many feats use that same term of 'battle dance'?

2008-02-07, 10:31 PM
lets not forget the bard feat Battle Dancer
or the epic feat Battle Dance, or the Bladedancer class

i guess people just love thinking that their character wades through combat effortlessly, like a dance ^^

2008-02-07, 10:48 PM
I believe this is in the wrong forum.

2008-02-07, 10:53 PM
The Homebrew Design forum didn't exist yet when this thread was made.
Speaking of which...


2008-02-07, 11:14 PM
Ah, yes, that would explain it.