Need halp with my DM

[Etrivar]

Hullo Playgrounders!

We have an absolutely awesome DM (Jason), and he is usually great about keeping things sane. However, one of our players requested a homebrew class: the Wild Mage. The mechanics are interesting and fun, but while making it Jason must have rolled a natural 1 on his balance check, because it is WAY OP. The problem is that for the first time ever he is being unreasonable and refuses to see it.

The gist of the problem is that the Wild Mage gets access to every spell on the sorc/wiz spell list. The DM says that is balanced out by the fact that every spell cast has a set chance to fail. I would agree that that is enough if the chance were at least 30% to 40%, but it is 10%. The class also gets spells known, which he can cast without any chance of failure. He gets almost as many spells known as a sorcerer of equal level.

In summary: the Wild Mage: almost the same as the sorcerer with spells known, but has the capacity to cast any other spell from the list with only a 10% chance of failure.

Please help me present a compelling case to my DM. I do plan to direct him to this thread once there have been a few responses.

EDIT: Oh! And I forgot; as a capstone, the failure chance goes away. So he just gets free access to all spells at level 20.

[Aemoh87]

I always use this rule. Homebrew should not be better than anything printed, and that is clearly better than sorcerer. It may even be comparable or better than wizard depending on specifics. I have seen an individual with a revolver mage homebrew in his sig which is a great example of how this class should have looked, as well as great homebrew in general. If your DM refuses to see this you can always go cracked out shenanigans. Aka go nuts for a campaign then afterwords start one you can take more seriously.

There are exceptions to this... aka samurai and monk. Mostly low tier stuff.

[The Glyphstone]

Sounds like a Lightning Warrior, and we all know that sacrifices power for flavor.:smallbiggrin:


In other words - take your DM's happy pills away, because he's clearly not in his right mind.

[Bovine Colonel]

Has he seen JaronK's tier list and all the relevant associated literature?

[Crossblade]

Are there other possible balancing factors? HP, skills, Spells per Day, weapons/armor prof?

Spells per Day is really the key thing to be aware of here. If it's equal to either the wiz or sorc, yes; it's broken. If it's say... half or 3/4ths, then that may balance it slightly.

[crazyhedgewizrd]

Can you post this Wild Mage class?

[Gamer Girl]

So the Wild Mage has access to the whole sor/wiz list? Just like sorceress and Wizards? I'm not sure I see the problem.

Or do you mean that for 'spells known' he has 'every spell'? That's very odd.


Why would a Wild Mage get to cast any spell they wanted to any time they wanted to? That does not sound 'wild'?

And how is this caster limited in spells per day? They can't cast any spell at any time, right?

[Shpadoinkle]

So the Wild Mage has access to the whole sor/wiz list? Just like sorceress and Wizards? I'm not sure I see the problem.

Or do you mean that for 'spells known' he has 'every spell'? That's very odd.


Why would a Wild Mage get to cast any spell they wanted to any time they wanted to? That does not sound 'wild'?

And how is this caster limited in spells per day? They can't cast any spell at any time, right?

The way I took it, he can cast ANY spell on the sor/wiz list spontaneously, and every time he does he has a 10% chance of creating a wild surge... unless he casts certain spells (spells he "knows") for which the surge chance doesn't exist.

Put another way, it's a regular sorcerer except he can try to cast any spell he doesn't know with a 10% chance of a surge.

But that's just how I read it; I may be mistaken.

[Darth_Versity]

Why don't you point your dm in the direction of the wild Mage rather than a homebrew version. It's in complete arcane/Mage (can't remember which one) and is a PrC for any arcane casting class.

[NNescio]

The way I took it, he can cast ANY spell on the sor/wiz list spontaneously, and every time he does he has a 10% chance of creating a wild surge... unless he casts certain spells (spells he "knows") for which the surge chance doesn't exist.

Put another way, it's a regular sorcerer except he can try to cast any spell he doesn't know with a 10% chance of a surge.

But that's just how I read it; I may be mistaken.

So, any spell? Like say, 9th level spells at Level 1?

Is it this poorly designed joker with the unnecessarily convoluted wording? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151808)

[Archwizard]

My first thought was definitely "what's so wild about that?" I think a complete writeup of the class is definitely needed to judge, but it does sound a trifle :smalleek: overpowered.

That linked one can cast divine and arcane magic? Um, insane?

[Killer Angel]

So, any spell? Like say, 9th level spells at Level 1?


Probably is limited to the spell levels you can cast, but still it seems OP.
As if a 6th lev. sorc. could sponteneously cast any 3rd lev. arcane spell on the sor/wiz spell list, with only a 10% failure.

[Etrivar]

He is working on the spell point variant.

Shpadoinkle is correct in his reading.

Yes, he can try to cast level nine spells at level one (there is an additional mechanic that makes him exceedingly unlikely to succeed, but it can happen. Throughout the levels the additional mechanic gets phased out)

Same skills and proficiencies (or lack thereof) as a sorc.

I will post the full class when I get home from work tonight.

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah, definitely time to put the cap on your Dm's happy juice.

[Archwizard]

Seriously. That sounds like the stupidest thing ever.

[Vangor]

How many spells per day and how many spells known does this wild mage receive? Of course, beyond this is the fact the wild mage has a decent chance of always having the exact spell necessary for a scenario by way of being given the entire sor/wiz list. Would create more parameters in terms of what the failure rate is such as spell level and choosing spell schools. Casting spells spontaneously at highest level incurs an additional 10% while casting spells one below incurs an additional 5%. You choose one school every interval and the potential for failure outside of those schools increases by 5-10%. Still has the high possibility of breaking.

[Amnestic]

Seriously. That sounds like the stupidest thing ever.

We both know that there's more stupid thing than this hanging about the internet.

But I do concur in essence, that's really rather ridiculous.

I do like the concept of a Wild Mage ever since playing one in Baldur's Gate 2, but I found the PrC version in 3.5 to be a little underwhelming in comparison. Probably would have preferred it as an ACF for Wizard rather than a Prestige Class of its own.