Create Undead, LM Undead Templates, and Special Abilities

[Elric VIII]

Upon reconvening with my D&D group at school I will be put in the following situation:

We have been travelling through the Abyss and have come across a prison with warrion factions of demons. One of the areas in the prison is the controlled by an Astral Deva and his Trumpet Archon followers.

The problem is that the Deva has been driven insane and seeks to become a servant of Demogorgon.

I am a fallen Cleric of Pelor, now dedicated to Law. My character has an awkward way of thinking in that he believes that undeath represents purity (I am a Bone Knight an have just become an Axiomatic Creature).

I have cast Attonement on the Archons and they have left the Abyss and my DM has let slip that attoning the Deva will cause him to exhibit a short period of lucidity during which he begs for death.

Now, given my character's background and mindset, this seems like my time to shine. I want to "purify" the fallen Deva by granting him the mercy of death and the perfection that only undeath may bring (and will have some witty/deep line to that effect when I do). It is about the mechanical aspects that I wish to know.

I want to use Creat Undead to turn an Astral Deva into a Mummy (since it is a Lawfully-aligned undead).


Can this spell be used to apply the Mummified template from Libris Mortis to a creature, if the base creature is not a generic humanoid, rather than just using the stock MM Mummy statblock?

If not, what happens to the target's special abilities, since Mummies are intelligent?

Is there a way to use Awaken Undead in conjunction with Create Undead in order to retain special abilities?

If it does become the normal MM Mummy, does it retain its ability scores?


The basic idea is that I would really like some way to keep the SLAs while making the creature an undead.

[holywhippet]

First problem - how did the Deva get there? Generally if an outsider is killed they get sent back to their home plane. But I think it depends on what method was used to get them there.

I'm also not certain if you can make an outsider into an undead. I don't see anything specific in the rules to prevent it but I might be overlooking something.

[blazingshadow]

lichfiends are undead no? at least demons can be turned to undead

[Elric VIII]

First problem - how did the Deva get there? Generally if an outsider is killed they get sent back to their home plane. But I think it depends on what method was used to get them there.

I'm also not certain if you can make an outsider into an undead. I don't see anything specific in the rules to prevent it but I might be overlooking something.

AFAIK, summoned creatures disappear when they die, but outsiders leave corpses. Otherwise the spell Revive Outsider would be about as useful as Speak With Living or Air Breathing.


An outsider is at least partially composed of the essence (but not necessarily the material) of some plane other than the Material Plane. Some creatures start out as some other type and become outsiders when they attain a higher (or lower) state of spiritual existence.

Features


An outsider has the following features.
8-sided Hit Dice.

Base attack bonus equal to total Hit Dice (as fighter).

Good Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves.

Skill points equal to (8 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die.

Traits

An outsider possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).


Darkvision out to 60 feet.

Unlike most other living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.

Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.

Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Outsiders not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Outsiders are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.

Outsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although they can do so if they wish). Native outsiders breathe, eat, and sleep.


This leads me to believe that outsiders do, in fact, leave a corpse. While they cannot be raise, Animate and Create Dead do not restore the original sould, they create a separate animating force.

Unless anyone knows of any more explicit rules on this situation?

[Zale]

Air Breathing is an actual spell. It's like Water Breathing for aquatic creatures. :elan:

[Alchemistmerlin]

Air Breathing is an actual spell. It's like Water Breathing for aquatic creatures. :elan:

And Speak With Living isn't so much a spell as a community college course for socially awkward zombies.

[Elric VIII]

Air Breathing is an actual spell. It's like Water Breathing for aquatic creatures. :elan:


And Speak With Living isn't so much a spell as a community college course for socially awkward zombies.

Touche.:nale:


That aside, any info on the original questions?

[Urpriest]

RAW, Create Undead creates normal-by-the-MM Mummies, not templated creatures. They don't even retain their class levels, despite that one in the MM that tries to tell you otherwise. That said, nothing restricts the target corpse to have belonged to a humanoid, so you can go ahead and turn that Astral Deva into a regular, MM-Mummy.

Awaken Undead can only target mindless undead. That said, if you can find some trick that makes Mummies mindless, then you could use it. Hmm...

[Elric VIII]

RAW, Create Undead creates normal-by-the-MM Mummies, not templated creatures. They don't even retain their class levels, despite that one in the MM that tries to tell you otherwise. That said, nothing restricts the target corpse to have belonged to a humanoid, so you can go ahead and turn that Astral Deva into a regular, MM-Mummy.

Awaken Undead can only target mindless undead. That said, if you can find some trick that makes Mummies mindless, then you could use it. Hmm...

That's a shame. I figured that the templates might be variant rules and I might have missed that.

It makes it really hard to do anything other than an army of undead w/o just Awaken + Leadership.

Thank you for the clarification.

[holywhippet]

Vampire would be a better option as they are always evil, but could be made lawful evil and they are a template monster who keeps their previous abilities. That being said, I'm not exactly certain how you turn a creature into a vampire.

[Urpriest]

Vampire would be a better option as they are always evil, but could be made lawful evil and they are a template monster who keeps their previous abilities. That being said, I'm not exactly certain how you turn a creature into a vampire.

Can't make outsiders into vampires.

Your best bet is finding some way to make the mummy into a mindless undead. I'll have to ponder how you could do that. One restriction would be that none of the templates in between can make the creature alive, since they would become the new set of EX abilities granted by Awaken Undead.

[Elric VIII]

Is there a way to make an outsider a humanoid?

[Coidzor]

Can't make outsiders into vampires.

Your best bet is finding some way to make the mummy into a mindless undead. I'll have to ponder how you could do that. One restriction would be that none of the templates in between can make the creature alive, since they would become the new set of EX abilities granted by Awaken Undead.

Wouldn't the better bet be to just get the Mummified template approved?

[Elric VIII]

Wouldn't the better bet be to just get the Mummified template approved?

This would most likely work, since I have already made an agreement to stick with a single undead cohort , rather than keeping a zombie apocalypse in my pocket. I was just interested in a way to do this without special permission.