Starcraft 2 Thread 6-Rax: All-in

[The Glyphstone]

Well sure, in an mmo. In a strategy game, the equivalent would be sticking to tier 1 through the whole game, even when the opponent would have BCs.

Which could be interesting - sounds like a Funday, actually, has it been done yet? An M/M ball without Medivac support would be made of carnage, death, and hilarity.

[Suedars]

So, ummm....my macro is literally AWFUL. Is there a good way to practice it? Are there any tricks I can use to help out?

Day[9] just did a daily on this type of thing: http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-309-the-right-and-wrong-way-to-learn-5229698


Which could be interesting - sounds like a Funday, actually, has it been done yet? An M/M ball without Medivac support would be made of carnage, death, and hilarity.

I don't think so, probably because 99% of the games would just be all-ins and timing attacks.

[SemiteLock]

I don't think so, probably because 99% of the games would just be all-ins and timing attacks.

To be fair, isnt this all the games below master league? :smallwink:

Even in masters league its like that, unless ur name is LiquidTLO

[Karoht]

Just watched the Funday MondayTuesday. Day[9] was even more strange than usual.

EDIT: I get the impression that he's extremely tired from casting MLG.

To quote Lore from Tankspot (who went to the MLG apparently):

"I did the wave.
At a Starcraft Match.
In Ohio."

That sounds absolutely rad.

[term1nally s1ck]

Some Replays. (http://www.mediafire.com/?u9tl2fgieklce)

The 3-tank push is the latest one, done literally just now. I was screwed the moment the push arrived, and my money was SO HIGH AHHHHHH.

[Spartacus]

Which could be interesting - sounds like a Funday, actually, has it been done yet? An M/M ball without Medivac support would be made of carnage, death, and hilarity.

My Terran strategy is to make only Marines. I've yet to lose to P or T, and have only won one game vs. Z.

[LordShotGun]

If they're inclined to be douchebags in this manner, they'll do it anyway. There's nothing stopping people from intentionally throwing games in order to stay in the low leagues where they completely outclass their opponents.


Some people already to this, but allowing people different ranks for different races would encourage people (who normally would not do this for fear of getting a lower rank) to screw around more leading to more people doing what I said before.

[KillItWithFire]

ARRRGGGH I hate CattleBruisers. relatively inexpiranced player. One of my friends keeps owning me with the things. Any good way for a protoss player to respond?

[The Glyphstone]

Mass Void Rays. BCs melt to charged VRs, and they're cheaper per-ship than the BCs are.

[Eldariel]

Mass Void Rays. BCs melt to charged VRs, and they're cheaper per-ship than the BCs are.

Stalkers also work quite well. As does, y'know, attacking before he gets to tech to battlecruisers. Unless he turtles up in which case you can build 70 bases and beat BCs by having more ****. "The counter unit" is exceedingly rarely the way to beat a strategy; generally you want a strategy that beats his strategy, not unit that beats his unit (since, y'know, he can build others) :smalltongue:

[squeekenator]

ARRRGGGH I hate CattleBruisers. relatively inexpiranced player. One of my friends keeps owning me with the things. Any good way for a protoss player to respond?

Well, in the immortal words of Day9, the best strategy would be to just go f***ing kill him, because anyone going for battlecruisers is going to be extremely vulnerable for a LONG time. Once you scout the fusion core, just run into his base and wreck everything - if you can't then you've been badly out-macroed and would have lost to any strategy, so work on that.

[The Glyphstone]

Stalkers also work quite well. As does, y'know, attacking before he gets to tech to battlecruisers. Unless he turtles up in which case you can build 70 bases and beat BCs by having more ****. "The counter unit" is exceedingly rarely the way to beat a strategy; generally you want a strategy that beats his strategy, not unit that beats his unit (since, y'know, he can build others) :smalltongue:

One of the reasons i suggest mass VR - they can beat pretty much any unit. :)



Also, I'm a coward. 28/29 Brutal....

[LordShotGun]

One of the reasons i suggest mass VR - they can beat pretty much any unit. :)



Also, I'm a coward. 28/29 Brutal....


Which one are you missing?

[term1nally s1ck]

All In, obviously. :smallbiggrin:

[Eldariel]

One of the reasons i suggest mass VR - they can beat pretty much any unit. :)

Marines and controlled Vikings perform more than admirably against them, in my not-so-limited experience and tend to naturally accompany BCs (Vikings due to having Ports anyways before Core finishes, and Marines due to extra Barracks + excess of minerals). :smallwink:

[Silverraptor]

Curse griefers. Why do they have to do things like that.:smallannoyed:

[arguskos]

Curse griefers. Why do they have to do things like that.:smallannoyed:
Cause the internet is full of *******s. :smallsigh:

[Silverraptor]

Cause the internet is full of *******s. :smallsigh:

True.

Also, I just played a game against a favored terran. Turns out containing him while expanding onto 3 CC is a really good strategy. I was wondering when I did the initial push why he didn't have more stuff. Then I remembered, "Duh! I'm on 3 bases with one of them being gold!"

It was fun.:smallbiggrin:

[KillItWithFire]

Stalkers also work quite well. As does, y'know, attacking before he gets to tech to battlecruisers. Unless he turtles up in which case you can build 70 bases and beat BCs by having more ****. "The counter unit" is exceedingly rarely the way to beat a strategy; generally you want a strategy that beats his strategy, not unit that beats his unit (since, y'know, he can build others) :smalltongue:

i had stalkers in my army, he sent in stimmed maruaders first. I'll admit i did poorly as far as scouting goes that much so the first 2 BCs caught me by surprise. When they DID show up my army was mostly collossi and immortals since he had mostly just thrown siege and M&M at me. Talking to him afterwards sounds like he was running on 3 base at that time while I had.... issues expanding to my thrid. (You're supposed to MINE the minerals probes, not stare at them.) So I suppose I know why I lost but this particular friend of mine has had an unhealthy relationship with BCs since this match and I want to make sure I'm ready for him next time.

EDIT: While I'm here, might as well share another problem I've had with this friend. Played a few more games with him, being a little more careful to scout this time but once he realized I had an observer pretty much every expansion of his he began building missile turrets like there's no tommorrow. Then starts using a bunch of scans to scout me. Once he had those turrets up I really couldn't do anything for scouting. Is there a good/better way for toss to scout?

[squeekenator]

Immortals are very rarely a good idea against Terran, taking them out would certainly help against surprise battlecruisers (although you really shouldn't be caught off guard by something that takes that long to build, so definitely do work on your scouting). If he's using siege tanks you can counter them just as easily with charge zealots or blink stalkers, both of which are also excellent against MMM, and blink stalkers in reasonable numbers wreck battlecruisers. The standard PvT composition of chargelot+stalker+sentry+colloxen can take on anything the Terran throws at you.

[mangosta71]

You should have observers before he has time to put turrets all around his perimeter. You can slip one through the cracks before he gets them all closed off and park it over the center of his base unless he's also putting turrets among the rest of his buildings (which basically nobody does). Or, if he's burning a lot of minerals on turrets early, crush him with a ground force - each turret is 2-3 fewer marines in his army for your zealots to contend with. Micro your forces so that the only things left standing at the end are the turrets he built, and see if he builds more in your next match.

[Silverraptor]

i had stalkers in my army, he sent in stimmed maruaders first. I'll admit i did poorly as far as scouting goes that much so the first 2 BCs caught me by surprise. When they DID show up my army was mostly collossi and immortals since he had mostly just thrown siege and M&M at me. Talking to him afterwards sounds like he was running on 3 base at that time while I had.... issues expanding to my thrid. (You're supposed to MINE the minerals probes, not stare at them.) So I suppose I know why I lost but this particular friend of mine has had an unhealthy relationship with BCs since this match and I want to make sure I'm ready for him next time.

EDIT: While I'm here, might as well share another problem I've had with this friend. Played a few more games with him, being a little more careful to scout this time but once he realized I had an observer pretty much every expansion of his he began building missile turrets like there's no tommorrow. Then starts using a bunch of scans to scout me. Once he had those turrets up I really couldn't do anything for scouting. Is there a good/better way for toss to scout?


You should have observers before he has time to put turrets all around his perimeter. You can slip one through the cracks before he gets them all closed off and park it over the center of his base unless he's also putting turrets among the rest of his buildings (which basically nobody does). Or, if he's burning a lot of minerals on turrets early, crush him with a ground force - each turret is 2-3 fewer marines in his army for your zealots to contend with. Micro your forces so that the only things left standing at the end are the turrets he built, and see if he builds more in your next match.

Exactly what I was going to suggest. If he's wasting alot of minerals on turrets, just attack and keep pressure on him.

[KillItWithFire]

Exactly what I was going to suggest. If he's wasting alot of minerals on turrets, just attack and keep pressure on him.

Ok I'll try that, maybe play him again today. Truth be told I think I'm learning more playing him than I ever do in the ladders.

[DrizztFan24]

So with the archon buff is it worth always going colossi or should I try out using templars and then recycling them?

[Silverraptor]

Ok I'll try that, maybe play him again today. Truth be told I think I'm learning more playing him than I ever do in the ladders.

Also, you can always scout the front by sending a probe up his ramp and see whats up there. If you don't see that many ground units, that might be a clue that he's going BC.

[Suedars]

So with the archon buff is it worth always going colossi or should I try out using templars and then recycling them?

It depends on the matchup.

In PvP Templars aren't very good since the high HP of the units means Storm isn't as much of a threat. Archons are very kitable by Stalkers, and only get their bonus damage against Zealots, making them not very good.

In PvZ going gateway based is definitely viable, though if your opponent is going heavy on the roaches you'll want to go for either robo tech or blink stalkers, since Archons and Templar face the same problems there as they do in PvP.

In PvT it's customary to start out going for Colossi, then techswitch so that once your opponent has enough Vikings out to shut down your Colossi you're ready with Templars.

However you definitely can go gateway heavy in PvT. Either Adelscott style mass low tech gateway units with double forges constantly chronoboosting upgrades, or some of the newer Zealot/Archon styles that have been popping up in the GSL. Either way, Zealot legspeed is an absolute must that you need asap, and in the first, blink is also very important. Both aim to play a very mobile, map control centric game, placing pylons everywhere to abuse warpgate. They'll work better on big open maps like Tal'Darim Altar than they will on hallway maps like Scrap Station.

[term1nally s1ck]

Actually, Chargelot archon is proving to be quite an effective PvP army. Archons clear up any zealots on the other side, and the chargelots tend to mop up everything else very quickly.

[Suedars]

Actually, Chargelot archon is proving to be quite an effective PvP army. Archons clear up any zealots on the other side, and the chargelots tend to mop up everything else very quickly.

Can't Blink Stalkers just kite that endlessly?

[term1nally s1ck]

Surprisingly, not really. The boost to speed tends to catch the zealots up to a blink, and since they automatically do an attack if they charge at all, the damage is still being done.

Artosis is using Chargelot archon a fair amount vs toss at the moment, and it seems to be working out pretty well for him.

[The Glyphstone]

I finally sucked it up and attempted All In.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p116/ArcherYiZe/Screenshot2011-06-0920_41_53.jpg

BOOYAH.

Was literally nailbiting...the final rush, spawning Nydus Worms nonstop on the platform, then Kerrigan came up the ramp. With zerglings and Kerrigan beating on it, the artifact had 300HP left when it fired. My flank defenses were untouched except for the bunker Kerrigan blew up to get to the artifact.

[Thiyr]

I finally sucked it up and attempted All In.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p116/ArcherYiZe/Screenshot2011-06-0920_41_53.jpg

BOOYAH.

Was literally nailbiting...the final rush, spawning Nydus Worms nonstop on the platform, then Kerrigan came up the ramp. With zerglings and Kerrigan beating on it, the artifact had 300HP left when it fired. My flank defenses were untouched except for the bunker Kerrigan blew up to get to the artifact.


Grats, sir. Join the Kerrigan-Club! :D

[Artanis]

Grats on the Kerrigan portrait!

[Gamerlord]

Congratulations! I doubt I could do that mission on even Hard.

[Spartacus]

This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqWB8zi_Cnk) is an example of exhausted Day[9].

[Silverraptor]

This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqWB8zi_Cnk) is an example of exhausted Day[9].

I don't know why, but I was laughing with him.

[Kyeudo]

I don't know why, but I was laughing with him.

'Cause the joke was funny?

[Kyeudo]

Guys, I need help. My ZvZ is completely in the tank. I normally do a one base roach play into expand, but now every opening I go up against completely crushes my major push, then guts me. If I try an early expand (spanishiwa style), I can survive to the mid game, but currently the mid game is all about who has the right composition of roaches and infestors and I'm not good at judging that mix.

This is driving me crazy! I love ZvZ for its intensity, it's play of economy vs offensive power. I don't want to get caught up in infestor/roach spamming for the next hundred games. Anyone know of any other ZvZ styles out there?

[term1nally s1ck]

Ling infestor and fairly fast (soon after 3rd) hive tech (Whether ultras or broodlords is up to you) is surprisingly good. rootDestiny is using it in every matchup with great success. (In Grandmaster, no less)

Super defensive earlygame, even using multiple spinecrawlers most games, and seriously messing with the enemy once you have 10ish infestors (fungalling the enemy army any time he's close, tossing infested terrans at the enemy bases whenever the army is further away.

Oh, and you end up in stupid games like the destiny/minigun one last night, where destiny made a LOL out of pylons having NP'd a probe, then won with a roach infestor colossus compositon.

[Newhill]

I usually go speedling expand, into later roach/infestor. I won't normally get aggressive until the midgame, usually after I have held of an attack. One base roach pushes can give me some trouble, but I usually manage to hold it off with being active with my lings, and 1-2 spines if thing get really hairy.

If the map is small, I will usually adjust by expoing later and getting roaches somewhat earlier. I tend to rely on denying my opponents expos in the mid-late game, and sort of starve him out, since infestors are so defensive. I mix in some lings in my mid-game army, and will do multi-pronged attacks and harass.

Not sure if that helps. I find ZvZ hard myself, but are doing okay, at least I'm winning more than I'm losing. Might post some replays after work.

EDIT: Somewhat ninja'd.

[Karoht]

So with the archon buff is it worth always going colossi or should I try out using templars and then recycling them?Reuse (your Templar), Recycle (the Templar into Archons), Reduce (the enemy to dust).
Isn't sustainablilty keen?

[Silverraptor]

'Cause the joke was funny?

I didn't get his joke at all. I was only laughing because how hard he was laughing.

[Spartacus]

His joke was pretty rubbish, and the only thing to laugh at regarding the joke itself was how bad it was, similar to "the number J". His laughing, though, was amusing.

[Kyeudo]

Well, I finally got another ZvZ win. Instead of trying to deal directly with his two base Roach/Infestor play, I turtled up with spine crawlers (can't fungal those!) and sent armies of lings around his army to rip up his drones. It worked out fairly well. Take a look if you want. (http://www.mediafire.com/?w633y3c4ce17102)

Still, that strategy worked because of the open spaces and multiple routes out of my base. On a different map, it will fall apart as soon as he can either get to my base quickly or just march down the only availible route to his base.

[LordShotGun]

People underestimate the dropping abilities of upgraded overlords. Since the biggest advantage of zerg is location, catching your opponent out of place is always a bonus and since zerglings are so small just two overlords full of zerglings can really mess up your enemy's base.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

People underestimate the dropping abilities of upgraded overlords. Since the biggest advantage of zerg is location, catching your opponent out of place is always a bonus and since zerglings are so small just two overlords full of zerglings can really mess up your enemy's base.

Nydus Worms do about the same for mobility, with far less risk involved.

[Spartacus]

Just reminding everybody that the weekly Starcraft 2 GitP group is, well, now. Come join us in the room GitP!

EDIT: You guys missed some crazy games. Games where the only Platinum player there lost over and over to everyone else, and came away being carried by teammates.

However, said player did win an FFA monobattle where over 130 cannons were built, and 9 Planetary Fortresses.

[arguskos]

Just reminding everybody that the weekly Starcraft 2 GitP group is, well, now. Come join us in the room GitP!

EDIT: You guys missed some crazy games. Games where the only Platinum player there lost over and over to everyone else, and came away being carried by teammates.

However, said player did win an FFA monobattle where over 130 cannons were built, and 9 Planetary Fortresses.
Jesus that one match. Someone should upload that somewhere, for posterity.

Also, Dragonic had the good idea to perhaps cast a few games live, so he and I might cast a few at some point. He said he'll let folks know.

[term1nally s1ck]

:( Being on the EU servers and hearing about this stuff sucks. :smallfrown:

[Dragon Elite]

We also had the game where terran is OP.

Wait, did I just say that?
We played a bunch of games. Terran is OP.

[Spartacus]

:( Being on the EU servers and hearing about this stuff sucks. :smallfrown:

Start an EU get-together. I'm sure Winterwind would love you for it.

[DrizztFan24]

We also played one monobattle where we indubitably proved that hellions mess up ultras.

[Dragon Elite]

Yeah. I think I would have done better with an ultra drop and using overlords for mobility.

[Recaiden]

Jesus that one match. Someone should upload that somewhere, for posterity.

Also, Dragonic had the good idea to perhaps cast a few games live, so he and I might cast a few at some point. He said he'll let folks know.

AT least there were no Ravens involved that time.

[Spartacus]

Never speak of my attempt to use Ravens. Or rather, attempt to not use them.

[Dragon Elite]

AT least there were no Ravens involved that time.

:smalltongue: Ravens. :smallbiggrin:

We also played a bunch of 2v2s, random race, random unit.

[Spartacus]

:smalltongue: Ravens. :smallbiggrin:

We also played a bunch of 2v2s, random race, random unit.

Monobattle, to clarify.

So now that you all have heard our little references to stuff you don't know about, you should come to the next session next Saturday!

[arguskos]

Monobattle, to clarify.

So now that you all have heard our little references to stuff you don't know about, you should come to the next session next Saturday!
At 5 PM! Not this "shows up at 7" stuff. :smalltongue:

[Tavar]

Man, I'd love to come, but I'm almost never free at the time.

[Spartacus]

Well, tonight we went until 11, and we have gone later before. You should come whenever you can. I myself am rarely able to make it.

[Tavar]

Tonight I just got on the computer right now, so it wasn't an option. And, it often seems like I'm not getting on til after 11.

[Dragon Elite]

It's okay Tavar, we can 1v1 together. I'm in California, so I'm on at ~8 my time, or 11 your time, fairly often.

[Murska]

Finally found the time to get to playing SC2, more than the campaign.

Placement matches put me into Platinum, where I subsequently got totally trashed. :smalltongue:

So far I've beaten 2 terrans and 2 protoss and lost to 2 zerg, which is pretty much how I remember Broodwar being on the part of my PvZ. Hated that. I never got the sense for when a Zerg is vulnerable.

Plenty of new strategies in SC2 to learn, though.

EDIT:
Oh.

Europe. Murska - 329

[Spartacus]

Yay! Someone else who can't figure out PvZ! I cannot play a game well where Zerg is one either side of the equation. I am a terrible Zerg, and I am terrible at fighting Zerg.

EDIT: As you might imagine, ZvZ is my worst match-up.

[term1nally s1ck]

Zerg die horribly to sentries and colossi.

[Spartacus]

They do tend to do that. But saying that they die to those units, and knowing that they die to those units, doesn't mean you can always make it work. I could tell you to always make workers, expand when you approach saturation and keep buildings constantly making units, but that won't necessarily help your micro.

[arguskos]

They do tend to do that. But saying that they die to those units, and knowing that they die to those units, doesn't mean you can always make it work. I could tell you to always make workers, expand when you approach saturation and keep buildings constantly making units, but that won't necessarily help your micro.
No it won't because making workers, expanding, and making units isn't micro. :smalltongue:

Also, PvZ isn't that complicated. You just need to account for four situations:
-Mutas. Get AA (P likes blink stalkers here, and so do I).
-Roaches. Get units that deal damage, have a lot of them (P likes blink stalkers here, and so do I).
-Ling balls. This is harder, but really comes down to positioning and having high DPS units to tear through the lings. Colossi and lots can kill the lings, and sentries can use FF to set up good positions for you. That's my recommendation.
-Infestors. Uh... ok, well, you got me on this one. My suggestion would be chargelot/blink stalker, just for the mobility and the ability to pincer the infestors so they can't escape or just fungal+run, but honestly, they're hard to handle. Good luck.

As you can see, I'm less than a fan of the big stupid walkers, and love me some warp gates. I'd suggest you try just going heavy warpgate for awhile, using Twilight Council tech to even the field. Could be helpful.

[Spartacus]

The 'a' key is totally right next to the 'i'. Could happen to anyone.

[Silverraptor]

The 'a' key is totally right next to the 'i'. Could happen to anyone.

Suuuuure it could.:smallamused::smalltongue:

[Murska]

Yeah, I get the unit mixes and micro and know what I'm supposed to be doing. My macro is kind of bad, yes. However, the specific problem I have with PvZ isn't "Crap he's making units what do I do?" but more in the details of my 'game sense' about them. With Protoss or Terran, I can always tell the moments when he's going to be vulnerable, roughly what he's going to have and roughly what he's doing. From this basis I can make tactical decisions easier. With Zerg, I'm poor at telling whether now's a good time to push onwards or just harass or even retreat to my base, or whether he's in a situation where he cannot protect an expand. And the fact that the Zerg units can easily catch mine if I make a play for map control at a poor time compounds that problem.

The only solution I see is more practice.

[Kyeudo]

-Mutas. Get AA (P likes blink stalkers here, and so do I).


I have to argue with you right here. When I decide to do a muta harass play against a toss, the thing I love to see the most is lots and lots of blink stalkers. It means I win. Mutas aren't that bad in a straight fight against stalkers, especially once muta numbers become high and I have plenty of minerals to turn into lings, which maul stalkers. It buys me tons of time to get some brood lords and then the toss goes down like a chump. I've seen it happen dozens of times and it always happens the same.

Now, that doesn't mean that blink stalkers aren't an important part of dealing with mutas. They are. Blink stalkers are something that you usually were getting anyway, so you probably have the tech to grab them already down when the mutas show up. They then buy you time, because stalkers backed by sentries can hold defensive positions against mutas and zerglings very well.

But you need to move forward to win against muta harass. You need to either take the skies or make them irrelevant. Pheonixs deal directly with the mutas. High Templar deal with massed lings and mutas. As long as you think just blink stalkers will be enough, I will run you around until you are dizzy and kill everything you own.

[arguskos]

I have to argue with you right here. When I decide to do a muta harass play against a toss, the thing I love to see the most is lots and lots of blink stalkers. It means I win. Mutas aren't that bad in a straight fight against stalkers, especially once muta numbers become high and I have plenty of minerals to turn into lings, which maul stalkers. It buys me tons of time to get some brood lords and then the toss goes down like a chump. I've seen it happen dozens of times and it always happens the same.

See, I've seen this dozens of times too, but as you noted, blink stalkers are a key component of defenses against them, and, most critically, prevent you from losing. That's why I recommended them.

Also, at lower skill levels, balkers (heh I like that portmanteau) are capable of gunning down mutas en masse, since those players are pretty shaky with their muta control (read: will stand and fight in equal numbers, which is a bad plan, thanks to blink negating the glaive wurm bounce).

[Silverraptor]

Well, I just did All In and got my nice shiny Sarah Kerrigan picture. And all I have to say about All In is, Damn that was stupidly easy. This was supposed to be Brutal?:smallannoyed: I had more trouble with other missions, mainly the wraith mission, then this last one.:smallsigh:

I wish I could upload a replay of the game just so you all could see how stupidly easy it was on Brutal as proof to my claim. Cause damn, Kerrigan could only detroy about 6 tanks before she had to retreat, and by the time she attacks again, I already made 26 more of them.

[faceroll]

Got a new computer, have starcraft 2.

Terran is the worst race ever.

[arguskos]

Got a new computer, have starcraft 2.

Terran is the worst race ever.
You make me lulz, sir, with your false statements like "Terran is the worst race ever." :smalltongue:

But really, if you assert that, I'm gonna need to see some justification or reasoning to back it up.

[Thiyr]

worst race ever...to play as, or play against? Important distinction there. I can see arguments being made both ways, strangely.

[faceroll]

Playing as. I find the macro of both toss and zerg really intuitive and build orders just feel right. But terran? I never have enough resources or expansions and I always seem to be like 10 to 40 pop below my opponent.

[Spartacus]

I find my problem is I don't make enough production structures as Terran. I never know what I can support.

[arguskos]

I find my problem is I don't make enough production structures as Terran. I never know what I can support.
Barracks, make more of them, always produce Marines, you will win every game. :smallcool: /halfjoking

[Thiyr]

Strangely, I enjoy Terran macro. I'm admittedly kinda terrible with them, but I just have so much fun going 4OC, making 14 workers the entire game, having a higher income than anyone else, and working 8 or more rax on one base (half reactor, half tech lab). But then again, that kinda can't always work, and I only do it in 2v2 or bigger games. Mules are...so...good... And being able to replace an army with the speed of a zerg player is kinda entertaining as well.

note: I normally main-race as Toss. Any other race and I play kinda gimicky and my basics slip greatly.

[Spartacus]

Barracks, make more of them, always produce Marines, you will win every game. :smallcool: /halfjoking

That is literally the extent of my Terran ability. Still wins 90% of non-Zerg games, though.

[arguskos]

Strangely, I enjoy Terran macro. I'm admittedly kinda terrible with them, but I just have so much fun going 4OC, making 14 workers the entire game, having a higher income than anyone else, and working 8 or more rax on one base (half reactor, half tech lab). But then again, that kinda can't always work, and I only do it in 2v2 or bigger games. Mules are...so...good... And being able to replace an army with the speed of a zerg player is kinda entertaining as well.
See, I do this too... and I win FAR more frequently than I should. :smalleek:

Like, I win 80-90% of games I 4OC in. Most of the losses are me being sneaky and getting tanks or something extra in there when I really should just get more marines.

Marines seriously are strong enough to carry the day if you have half-decent micro.

[Spartacus]

Sometimes I grab Vikings against Protoss, as I often have a bit of tech to grab an Armory for higher upgrades on my 'rines. I almost never grab 2 geysers at once, though.

[arguskos]

Sometimes I grab Vikings against Protoss, as I often have a bit of tech to grab an Armory for higher upgrades on my 'rines. I almost never grab 2 geysers at once, though.
I grab 2-3 geysers for when I get tanks (the idea being that I can kill colossi from range as well as contain folks better), but otherwise, don't bother with much gas.

I need to really sit down one day and tweak that build, so I can get it straightened out and fine-tuned.

[Kyeudo]

The worst sound in the universe is "swickt". Why? Because it is the sound that anounces he has DTs and you didn't plan on that.

[faceroll]

Man, I love the different death animations. Marauders getting vivesected, hahaha, stupid terran.

[LordShotGun]

Man, I love the different death animations. Marauders getting vivesected, hahaha, stupid terran.

Marines get chopped in half both ways and sometimes their legs keep running in a little circle when they get bisected :smallbiggrin:

[Artanis]

I wish I had a better video card. 98% of the death animations I ever see are either Orange Explosion, Blue Explosion, or Bloody Explosion. No chunks or anything :smallfrown:




On a semi-related note, I never got an answer to a question I asked earlier: what graphics setting do I have to put at what level to see the decals on Terran buildings? :smallconfused:

[term1nally s1ck]

It's a specific setting. Depending on your computer, it may never actually display on any settings.

However...

First go to Documents\Starcraft II and open the Variables text file. Next keep going down until you see the following:
simplifiedShaders=1
Just change the number to 0 and your decals appear.

(Turning off simplified cloaking is also nice. You can see the blur much better.)

[Karoht]

Strangely, I enjoy Terran macro... Mules are...so...good...
Mules have many excellent uses. Moreso if you have line of sight. On a position of enemy Siege Tanks. And just drop them on top, and watch the tanks take themselves out.
Also, they can repair. Sure, you might lose some potential income, but for the ability to basically have an SCV anywhere on the map at any time to fix something (like say, a Battlecruiser, or your line of Siege Tanks, or your damaged Medivac that you pulled back, etc) is pretty rad. Situationally useful, of course.

[Artanis]

It's a specific setting. Depending on your computer, it may never actually display on any settings.

However...

First go to Documents\Starcraft II and open the Variables text file. Next keep going down until you see the following:
simplifiedShaders=1
Just change the number to 0 and your decals appear.

(Turning off simplified cloaking is also nice. You can see the blur much better.)

Ah, thank you.

The weird part about the decals is that the Protoss and Zerg ones work fine :smalltongue:

[term1nally s1ck]

Yup, they do. It's weird like that. That setting isn't linked to the normal menu-based graphics changes, so if SCII decides your computer isn't worthy of them at startup, they never change. Unless you put them there.

[Artanis]

A replay of me and Silverraptor's 2v2. The other team was serious *******s, so it felt good to thoroughly manhandle them :smallbiggrin:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=PDTT26ZS

[Silverraptor]

Got a new computer, have starcraft 2.

Terran is the worst race ever.

Haha.

I just did a FFA to get the 100 kill achievement. When I saw it was unranked, I decided to give it a shot. Wow do the FFA guys suck. I stomped them all. I destroyed each of their bases easily.:smallbiggrin:

I saved the replay, if there was a way to upload it.

[Artanis]

I use http://www.megaupload.com for anything that isn't 1v1 :smallsmile:

[Silverraptor]

I use http://www.megaupload.com for anything that isn't 1v1 :smallsmile:

Alright then, I'll try it out.

Also, are you going to upload that 2v2 game we just did against the Jerks?

[Silverraptor]

Alright, time to test the website. Here's that FFA game. Let me know if it works or not.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=KVSR5DLX

[term1nally s1ck]

A replay of me and Silverraptor's 2v2. The other team was serious *******s, so it felt good to thoroughly manhandle them :smallbiggrin:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=PDTT26ZS

I think he did. :smalltongue:

[Silverraptor]

I think he did. :smalltongue:

Oh wow. I missed it. I'm sorry Kitty.

[Gamerlord]

Got a new computer, have starcraft 2.

Terran is the worst race ever.

Marines, my friend, Marines. IMO the best unit in the whole darn game.

[faceroll]

Marines, my friend, Marines. IMO the best unit in the whole darn game.

Most of my terran matches have been mirror matches, since I've only had the game like 48 hours and I refuse to play any race but random.

In TvT, if I mass rines, I get wiped by tech, like blue flame hellions or a siege tank line. If I get tech, I get rolled by a rine rauder ball. I don't even remember any games where I got terran and go against other races, but I imagine it will unfold similarly.

Has anyone else found that colloxen are pretty much the best thing ever? I go 3 gate robo, then thermal lances. For most maps, the incredible defensive powers of the thermal lances lets me grab my natural mostly unmolested.

I'm a gold player, though, so who knows.

[Thrawn183]

Haha.

I just did a FFA to get the 100 kill achievement. When I saw it was unranked, I decided to give it a shot. Wow do the FFA guys suck. I stomped them all. I destroyed each of their bases easily.:smallbiggrin:

I saved the replay, if there was a way to upload it.

I watched the replay. Wow, you really weren't kidding.

[Kyeudo]

Marines, my friend, Marines. IMO the best unit in the whole darn game.

Cheap, high dps, highly mobile, mass producable, ranged, can shoot up and down - What's not to love?

[Gamerlord]

Cheap, high dps, highly mobile, mass producable, ranged, can shoot up and down - What's not to love?

Well, they die horribly to banelings, but that can be fixed with micro.

[Tavar]

What is it with 2v2 players? Most recent game, my partner put a pylon in the enemy base. He then also put a Gateway and extractor in the base; not hidden but in the middle of this guys base. And he was building stuff at home. Ended up losing all of it, and then was unable to get an actual army. Seriously, what was the plan there?

[arguskos]

What is it with 2v2 players? Most recent game, my partner put a pylon in the enemy base. He then also put a Gateway and extractor in the base; not hidden but in the middle of this guys base. And he was building stuff at home. Ended up losing all of it, and then was unable to get an actual army. Seriously, what was the plan there?
This is why I never EVER play Random 2v2. :smallsigh:

[HalfTangible]

What is it with 2v2 players? Most recent game, my partner put a pylon in the enemy base. He then also put a Gateway and extractor in the base; not hidden but in the middle of this guys base. And he was building stuff at home. Ended up losing all of it, and then was unable to get an actual army. Seriously, what was the plan there?

i don't think he finished reading the guide to gateway rushing...

[Eldariel]

This is why I never EVER play Random 2v2. :smallsigh:

Just play 'em as 1v2s and you'll do fine; at least my experience :smallwink:

[LordShotGun]

Cheap, high dps, highly mobile, mass producable, ranged, can shoot up and down - What's not to love?


Don't forget they are highly upgradable (best damage increase percentage in the game) and instantly repairable so the stay relevant throughout the game unlike say zerglings (who really need a lair tech upgrade to stay competitive to stim and charge).

[Artanis]

So I tried altering the variables file to make Terran decals show up, and it worked. And dear lord, the Terrans have decals EVERYWHERE :smalleek:

Unfortunately, I had to turn it back off because the other things it did tanked my already-unreliable framerate :smallfrown:



Alright, time to test the website. Here's that FFA game. Let me know if it works or not.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=KVSR5DLX

Well that was an ass-kicking. And red was...:smalleek:

[faceroll]

Are banelings, ultras, cracklings a good mix vs. late game MMM? Ultras with armor seem very tanky, but I've only used them once.

[Suedars]

Are banelings, ultras, cracklings a good mix vs. late game MMM? Ultras with armor seem very tanky, but I've only used them once.

I'd add a couple Infestors into the mix for fungal. Banelings and Ultras are infinitely better once MMM can't kite them endlessly.

[HalfTangible]

Don't forget they are highly upgradable (best damage increase percentage in the game) and instantly repairable so the stay relevant throughout the game unlike say zerglings (who really need a lair tech upgrade to stay competitive to stim and charge).

I thought that went to carriers since they get 8 attack upgrades for every one purchased =/

[Dragon Elite]

Marines are cheaper, and they shoot really fast. Both mean more rps, meaning more dps is added.

[term1nally s1ck]

Actually, lings take the win for most upgradable. +1.4 dps, 1.7 with adrenal glands. Marines get +1.0, +1.7 when stimmed.

Oh, and you get 2 lings per marine.

[LordShotGun]

Actually, lings take the win for most upgradable. +1.4 dps, 1.7 with adrenal glands. Marines get +1.0, +1.7 when stimmed.

Oh, and you get 2 lings per marine.


Yet once you get 10 marines or more with stim, they beat cost for cost zerglings since all of them are firing at once while zerglings are melee and get caught up on each other, decreasing DPS. This makes stim better then adrenal glands AND stim is tier 1.5 while the glands are tier 3 (I think it should be moved to tier 2).

[Suedars]

Yet once you get 10 marines or more with stim, they beat cost for cost zerglings since all of them are firing at once while zerglings are melee and get caught up on each other, decreasing DPS. This makes stim better then adrenal glands AND stim is tier 1.5 while the glands are tier 3 (I think it should be moved to tier 2).

Which would be relevant if we were talking about whether marines or lings won in a straight up fight, but we're talking about which units gain the most dps from upgrades.

[Thiyr]

I would still argue relevancy. If we're talking based on pure numbers, yes, lings are slightly better off, their DPS boost not requiring an active ability. But lings DPS drops significantly when they aren't able to actually hit their target, meaning more marines can potentially fire. So functionally, marines are better off in most situations aside from pure number-crunch. And this is all in response to that whole.

And lets face it, if we want to talk "who's numbers get biggest per-upgrade", it goes to the carrier, with its 5.3 DPS boost per upgrade.

[Suedars]

I would still argue relevancy. If we're talking based on pure numbers, yes, lings are slightly better off, their DPS boost not requiring an active ability. But lings DPS drops significantly when they aren't able to actually hit their target, meaning more marines can potentially fire. So functionally, marines are better off in most situations aside from pure number-crunch. And this is all in response to that whole.

And lets face it, if we want to talk "who's numbers get biggest per-upgrade", it goes to the carrier, with its 5.3 DPS boost per upgrade.

Yes, but you can get 14 lings for the minerals of 1 carrier (and that's ignoring the gas cost). Plus so long as your lings are attacking even half the time, they'll still gain more benefits from upgrades than the marines cost for cost.

[Karoht]

Actually, lings take the win for most upgradable. +1.4 dps, 1.7 with adrenal glands. Marines get +1.0, +1.7 when stimmed.

Oh, and you get 2 lings per marine.
Did you forget run speed and Burrow? Two very tactically important upgrades. Marines can't run faster (unless they stim, which means they better have medivac support), and they can't 'take cover' the way the Lings can. A marine ball is usually pretty easy to see coming. A ling ball can be hiding and is harder to spot. Lings have more abush and hit and run capability, marines don't.
And if you get sick of your Lings, turn em into banelings, a very tactically important unit in it's own right.

Mind you, all of that is mathmatically impossible to calculate. Just pointing it out for sake of indicating the bigger picture.

[LordShotGun]

And lets face it, if we want to talk "who's numbers get biggest per-upgrade", it goes to the carrier, with its 5.3 DPS boost per upgrade.


Yes, but you can get 14 lings for the minerals of 1 carrier (and that's ignoring the gas cost). Plus so long as your lings are attacking even half the time, they'll still gain more benefits from upgrades than the marines cost for cost.


Well, he still wins the who has the best upgrade percentage game we were playing.

[Thrawn183]

Well, he still wins the who has the best upgrade percentage game we were playing.

I disagree, because no other unit is as harmed by an opponent having armor upgrades. This is particularly important as it is difficult to have high air upgrades: what, are you just not going to upgrade your ground units? Great, you've got 1/1 air upgrades and your opponents have 3/3 marines.

After much experimentation with carriers, the closest I came to finding something effective was rushing them on 2 bases with armor upgrades in the hope that my opponent would neglect their upgrades.

[LordShotGun]

I disagree, because no other unit is as harmed by an opponent having armor upgrades.

Well yeah but this was a pure numbers discussion not an actual gameplay discussion. So carriers still win...and lose. At the same time. :smallwink:

[Thiyr]

Poor carrier. So lonely D:

[Turalisj]

Yes, but carriers are pimpcraft. Just look at the carrier in the final Zeratul mission!

[faceroll]

Zerg macro is hard, because it requires constant queen micro. I hate doing a bunch of sweet micro away from base, but neglecting my inject larvae, while the Terran player just spams hotkey-5 and AAAAAAAAAA. Not fair. :( I hate losing games with 2k+ minerals in the bank because I don't have enough larvae.

I am just going to start building like 3 hatches at my main once I can afford it. Make up for my crappy micro with better macro.


I'd add a couple Infestors into the mix for fungal. Banelings and Ultras are infinitely better once MMM can't kite them endlessly.

Oh yeah, I want to get my infestor micro better. Fungal is GODLY.


I would still argue relevancy. If we're talking based on pure numbers, yes, lings are slightly better off, their DPS boost not requiring an active ability. But lings DPS drops significantly when they aren't able to actually hit their target, meaning more marines can potentially fire. So functionally, marines are better off in most situations aside from pure number-crunch. And this is all in response to that whole.

And lets face it, if we want to talk "who's numbers get biggest per-upgrade", it goes to the carrier, with its 5.3 DPS boost per upgrade.

T3 lings are an exceptionally cheap (both in minerals and pop cost) way to wreck unattended buildings. On small maps, not so useful, cause MMM is so mobile, but on bigger maps, terran requires pop cap to defend bases (2 bunkers and a tank is what, 10 pop? 12?). Cracklings can roar into an expo and light it up. Granted, it's not nearly as good as it was in BW days when you had Defiler support. It's also ok vs. toss, though some static D and warpgates makes it harder to pull off.

[Shadowleaf]

Zerg macro is hard, because it requires constant queen micro. I hate doing a bunch of sweet micro away from base, but neglecting my inject larvae, while the Terran player just spams hotkey-5 and AAAAAAAAAA. Not fair. :( I hate losing games with 2k+ minerals in the bank because I don't have enough larvae.

I am just going to start building like 3 hatches at my main once I can afford it. Make up for my crappy micro with better macro.
Queen micro is easy once you get a hang of it. It simply requires a bit of practice. I usually bind my Queen to an easy accessible hotkey (1-6). Whilst microing, you can select queen, V, press on hatchery on minimap. Once you have several bases going, bind the queens to the same group, and V on the different hatcheries on the minimap. Once you get it down, it shouldn't take you more than a few seconds.

[Thiyr]

T3 lings are an exceptionally cheap (both in minerals and pop cost) way to wreck unattended buildings. On small maps, not so useful, cause MMM is so mobile, but on bigger maps, terran requires pop cap to defend bases (2 bunkers and a tank is what, 10 pop? 12?). Cracklings can roar into an expo and light it up. Granted, it's not nearly as good as it was in BW days when you had Defiler support. It's also ok vs. toss, though some static D and warpgates makes it harder to pull off.

True though that may be, if these unattended buildings are, say, PFs, those lings are gonna melt away like butter, and I tend to see PFs at most expos outside of the natural for just such a reason. speedlings, 'rine drops, or warp prisms can do damage, but the PF is really just gonna wreck any of them if you're not planning to take it down with something more, or aren't planning on taking it down by throwing units at it, and all without taking up any food. Bit harder for toss to deal with that without using some units ('cause those cannons won't deal with mass ling fast enough, unless you're not tossing that many at them).

edit: and to ^^, queen micro is pretty much just forcing the zerg player to work off of two "buildings" for their macro, instead of 2-4. instead of nexus/gate(/robo/starport) or orbital/rax(/factory/starport), it's hatch/queen. takes a bit more work, but so long as you keep on top of remembering it, it works out well. the problem for me ends up being the remembering bit.

[faceroll]

True though that may be, if these unattended buildings are, say, PFs, those lings are gonna melt away like butter, and I tend to see PFs at most expos outside of the natural for just such a reason. speedlings, 'rine drops, or warp prisms can do damage, but the PF is really just gonna wreck any of them if you're not planning to take it down with something more, or aren't planning on taking it down by throwing units at it, and all without taking up any food. Bit harder for toss to deal with that without using some units ('cause those cannons won't deal with mass ling fast enough, unless you're not tossing that many at them).

Doh, PFs. Forgot about those. I've only played a few dozen games of SC2 (maybe 40ish if you include Beta), and I have rarely encountered those. Yeah, thought would pretty much stymie any attempts at a runby. :smallsigh:


edit: and to ^^, queen micro is pretty much just forcing the zerg player to work off of two "buildings" for their macro, instead of 2-4. instead of nexus/gate(/robo/starport) or orbital/rax(/factory/starport), it's hatch/queen. takes a bit more work, but so long as you keep on top of remembering it, it works out well. the problem for me ends up being the remembering bit.

Oh, I know when I'm not doing it, I just don't have the APM to do it. I think nearly half my ladder losses are due to base microing and losing my micro heavy army in the field. Need to pay better attention to the minimap and stop going to my bases. But oh jesus that is so frustrating. Have the perfect unit composition to walk all over some MMM+tank dethball, only to get fragged when clicking queens or warping in stalkers.

The bummer about playing random is needing different hotkey bindings for each race. Normally it's whole army on 1, casters on 2 and 3, unit producing stuff on 5 through 7. Queen hotkeying sounds good. Didn't know you could click on hatches on the minimap. That is good advice.

Should probably also fix my mouse sensitivity. Right now it doesn't have the control necessary for this kind of stuff. I find myself stymied by my hardware.

[AgentPaper]

I honestly don't get why people think Zerg have the hardest macro. If anything, they're probably the easiest macro of the three races, from what I can see. Queens are harder than mules or time warp, sure, but on the other hand Zerg never has to worry about building the right mix of unit-producing structures, or keeping every single one producing at all times. They also don't need to worry about building Supply Depots or Pylons, instead they just need to remember to hit O (or whatever the overlord hotkey is) every once in a while while spamming out their units. I mean heck, they don't even need to worry about telling their workers to head back to the mineral patch after finishing a building. :smalltongue:

Not that playing Zerg (well) is faceroll-easy, of course. They have their own unique challenges like maintaining creep spread, and balancing drone/army production ratios, but overall I don't see anything that would be cause to complain. If you are going to make Queens automated, then make queued units also not take up resources, I'd say. But then we're talking about making the game easier to play, which is a whole different matter.

[Dragon Elite]

to hit O

V.

But I agree with your point, the problem is that you can go straight M&M ball, so you need just 5aaaadd, which is a lot faster than 4seeezzzzv5*click*v*click*.

[Suedars]

I honestly don't get why people think Zerg have the hardest macro. If anything, they're probably the easiest macro of the three races, from what I can see. Queens are harder than mules or time warp, sure, but on the other hand Zerg never has to worry about building the right mix of unit-producing structures, or keeping every single one producing at all times. They also don't need to worry about building Supply Depots or Pylons, instead they just need to remember to hit O (or whatever the overlord hotkey is) every once in a while while spamming out their units. I mean heck, they don't even need to worry about telling their workers to head back to the mineral patch after finishing a building. :smalltongue:

Not that playing Zerg (well) is faceroll-easy, of course. They have their own unique challenges like maintaining creep spread, and balancing drone/army production ratios, but overall I don't see anything that would be cause to complain. If you are going to make Queens automated, then make queued units also not take up resources, I'd say. But then we're talking about making the game easier to play, which is a whole different matter.

While it's not ideal, you can let chronoboost and mules stockpile, then use a bunch at once which you can't do with larva inject. And if you're ever sitting at 3+ larva at a hatch, you're wasting potential production the same as you are by letting a building idle. Overlords are a bit more natural than pylons/depots, but the other two races get recompense for getting supply blocked that Zerg doesn't. Terran can use that time to produce add-ons, or even call down supply if need be, and if Protoss gets supply blocked their warpgates are still cooling down, meaning they'll have the next wave of production ready as soon as the pylon completes.

[LordShotGun]

I like playing terran even though my main race in protoss and I always find myself not having enough production buildings.

Similar to how protoss can support 4 gateways on one base (or two gate+tech) and 7 + a tech on two bases how many production facilities should terran have per base generally?

[faceroll]

Right now, I am finding toss is my best race. They just play intuitively for me. I am a pretty heavy robo player, typically racing for coloxen to force a tech switch and gaining a bit of map control. I use that time to macro up and pump whatever units counter theirs. I find protoss come with a lot of 'hard' counters. Coloxen melt tier one, immortals a great vs. anything that does a lot of damage and has high hp, stalkers are pretty beastly all around (love blink micro), and zealots are cheap meatwalls. Oh, and psi storm is much easier for me to use than it was in BW, thanks to the smarter casting. Nothing like laying down the hurt on bio with storm spam.

Chronoboost on double forges is godly. It's my go-to when mirror matching. Upgrades are a huge deal.

With zerg, I just can't figure out what to mass. Hydras used to be my go to, but now they're T2, expensive, and squishy.


I honestly don't get why people think Zerg have the hardest macro. If anything, they're probably the easiest macro of the three races, from what I can see. Queens are harder than mules or time warp, sure, but on the other hand Zerg never has to worry about building the right mix of unit-producing structures, or keeping every single one producing at all times. They also don't need to worry about building Supply Depots or Pylons, instead they just need to remember to hit O (or whatever the overlord hotkey is) every once in a while while spamming out their units. I mean heck, they don't even need to worry about telling their workers to head back to the mineral patch after finishing a building. :smalltongue:

Not that playing Zerg (well) is faceroll-easy, of course. They have their own unique challenges like maintaining creep spread, and balancing drone/army production ratios, but overall I don't see anything that would be cause to complain. If you are going to make Queens automated, then make queued units also not take up resources, I'd say. But then we're talking about making the game easier to play, which is a whole different matter.

Mules and chrono stockpile; larvae don't. If my hatch has 1 larvae on it, and then an inject occurs, but I am busy, say, running banes into marines, my hatch just stops at 4 larvae. You've got from 45 energy to 63 energy. You lose a handful of minerals without dropping that mule, but then when you go back, you still keep that 13 energy. Further more, you just went 5aaaaaa at one point on your 6rax, outproducing me by A LOT, because when I hit 5szzzz, I've only got 4 lings and no larvae.

It's a huge disadvantage, compared to BW play. Zerg used to be my strongest race because their macro play really meshed with my play style. Now... bleh. It's really holding me back.

[Draken]

With zerg, I just can't figure out what to mass. Hydras used to be my go to, but now they're T2, expensive, and squishy.

Roaches and Infestors. I love hydras, but I reserve them for anti-air and nydus play. Roaches and Infestors pretty much do everything you could want.

[Silverraptor]

So, here at Philmont scout ranch, I have managed to scrape together a bunch of other Starcraft 2 fans. And apparently, one of them managed to get IdrA on his friends list because he said he was lucky in a chat channel once. Anyways, we looked over his profile, and apparently IdrA has 754 wins as zerg by our last check. But the funny thing is, he has 2 wins as terran and 5 wins as protoss. Looks like our pure zerg player is not so pure.:smallbiggrin:

[Thiyr]

So, here at Philmont scout ranch, I have managed to scrape together a bunch of other Starcraft 2 fans. And apparently, he managed to get IdrA on his friends list because he said he was lucky in a chat channel once. Anyways, we looked over his profile, and apparently IdrA has 754 wins as zerg by our last check. But the funny thing is, he has 2 wins as terran and 5 wins as protoss. Looks like our pure zerg player is not so pure.:smallbiggrin:

a) starcraft at philmont? Man, now I kinda regret never going there when I was in scouts :P

b) Silly IdrA and your not playing only zerg.

[Silverraptor]

a) starcraft at philmont? Man, now I kinda regret never going there when I was in scouts :P

b) Silly IdrA and your not playing only zerg.

Well, the staff who brought their laptops have Starcraft 2. In fact, the same guy who has IdrA on his friends list is a 20-platinum ranked zerg who likes to watch my so quote "Bronze league" games. He says he can't believe how pathetic the silver and gold league players are that I'm playing against constantly. His favorite example was a 1 base hive-tech zerg that I stomped all over with Thors.:smallbiggrin:

[Murska]

Well, I still haven't dropped from Platinum so I haven't ever seen any other league. But I haven't played much either.

[term1nally s1ck]

IdrA wasn't a Zerg player in brood war, so I assume he had to try everything out at the start of SC2.

Also GRAR why does my terran still suck so baaaadly. I don't know how to be aggressive at the start of the game without losing all my crap, so Zerg and toss just power up and eat me. Considering just going 4OC into mech, cos I'm bored of dying so easily.

[Suedars]

IdrA wasn't a Zerg player in brood war, so I assume he had to try everything out at the start of SC2.

He was solidly Zerg in the beta though.

[arguskos]

He was solidly Zerg in the beta though.
I've seen him on a stream (I forget which one, sorry) play T and P a couple of times for giggles in group games. I think that's where said games came from.

[Silverraptor]

Ah, fun times. Apparently, someone here at the Scout camp I'm working at tried to illegally download a movie. As such, we have the FBI and such swarming everywhere trying to find who did it and were having threats of our internet being shut down entirely.

So I may have trouble getting on in the future.

[LordShotGun]

Ah, fun times. Apparently, someone here at the Scout camp I'm working at tried to illegally download a movie. As such, we have the FBI and such swarming everywhere trying to find who did it and were having threats of our internet being shut down entirely.

So I may have trouble getting on in the future.

Why would you have internet problems even if they do shut down your local access? Are you not working at a place where you should....always be prepared? :smallbiggrin:

[The Glyphstone]

Why did Illidan Stormrage get thrown out of the Boy Scouts?

[Thiyr]

Because of his extensive criminal record.

[Silverraptor]

I just played a game against a Terran cheeser. I scouted his base and it looked like a typical terran build. Then I'm surprised when 8-10 marines start waltzing up my ramp. I was planning on eventually doing a blue flame drop at the back of his base, so it wasn't hard to buy enough time to get the blue flame upgrade to counter the marines. I then danced all around his base, taking out his worker line as much as I could, until when he tried to push out, I dropped at the back of his base and he surrendered.

Here's the replay (http://www.sc-replay.com/replay/15-06-11/70205-Silverraptor-VS-SolitarySky.html?justUp=1).



Edit:And here is a replay (http://www.sc-replay.com/replay/16-06-11/70214-Shlikky-VS-Silverraptor.html?justUp=1), where the guy went 4 rax opening against me as well. Except this time I saw it in advance and was able to prepare for it.

[Dragon Elite]

I've been playing a bunch of custom games recently, but the only one that really hooked my was Civilization Saphhire. Anyone else played it?

[The Glyphstone]

Because of his extensive criminal record.

You're no fun.

[Tavar]

I've been playing a bunch of custom games recently, but the only one that really hooked my was Civilization Saphhire. Anyone else played it?

Yeah. Twice; once to figure out how the game was played, once actually being able to do things. But, I didn't find it that interesting, really.

[Dragon Elite]

Yeah, it has gotten boring after like 4 games. It needs more content that's more easily accessible for it to be fun.

[Spartacus]

A friend let me play on his account, which is bottom of the Bronze. I built my entire base inside the enemy Protoss base, Supply Depots and all. Enemy couldn't force me out, as he missed the first Depot and Barracks. Fun game.

[Gamerlord]

A friend let me play on his account, which is bottom of the Bronze. I built my entire base inside the enemy Protoss base, Supply Depots and all. Enemy couldn't force me out, as he missed the first Depot and Barracks. Fun game.

Please tell me he kept a replay.

[Tavar]

A friend let me play on his account, which is bottom of the Bronze. I built my entire base inside the enemy Protoss base, Supply Depots and all. Enemy couldn't force me out, as he missed the first Depot and Barracks. Fun game.

What. Just...what?


Also, anyone else trying out the Fun or Not custom Maps? There's some good ones, but there are also some really odd ones. Like, obviously some variant on DoTA, or something, but no description, most of the custom names are broken, and no help menu. What's up with that?

[Silverraptor]

A friend let me play on his account, which is bottom of the Bronze. I built my entire base inside the enemy Protoss base, Supply Depots and all. Enemy couldn't force me out, as he missed the first Depot and Barracks. Fun game.

Replay! Post! Now!

[Dragon Elite]

A friend let me play on his account, which is bottom of the Bronze. I built my entire base inside the enemy Protoss base, Supply Depots and all. Enemy couldn't force me out, as he missed the first Depot and Barracks. Fun game.

Yo dawg.

I heard you like bases.

So I made a base in your base.

Now I can base while you base.

[Winterwind]

Reminder: Our next weekly session is tomorrow. Good luck, have fun. :smallcool:

[Murska]

Reminder: Our next weekly session is tomorrow. Good luck, have fun. :smallcool:

How do they work nowadays, anyway?

[Winterwind]

How do they work nowadays, anyway?Same as ever, only in SC2 rather than in BW. And the channel name has reverted back to 'GitP', as there's no need to use the 'op GitP'-channel when we have no bot to operate it. :smallwink:
Though obviously, due to the region-locked nature of SC2, it's pretty much just the US folks and those who got themselves a US version meeting up (at least, I'm not aware of meetings on other servers).

[Murska]

*sigh* Region locks. Oh well.

[DrizztFan24]

I have two guest keys if somebody needs them.

[Dragon Elite]

I have 2 also. Message me if you want one, or you want one for your friends, or your friends want one for themselves.

[afroakuma]

Does anyone have any links to video replays featuring either really good Reaper use or really good Protoss airplay? I'm getting a bit mech'd and Zerg'd and Colossus'd out of late.

[Tavar]

Did the Saturday group play already finish?

[Spartacus]

I'm not sure, not having access to a computer capable of playing SC2. I'd just pop on. If nobody is in the GitP room, it's likely over. You could post here and see if people want to log back on, though.

Hey, someone log on so Tavar isn't alone!

[Tavar]

Okay, turns out that few showed up, so it never really started. Still, I had some fun with Recaiden and LGND. Well, except for those 2 mono-battles. Damn 6 PF rush, and stupid Zealot choice.

[Recaiden]

Okay, turns out that few showed up, so it never really started. Still, I had some fun with Recaiden and LGND. Well, except for those 2 mono-battles. Damn 6 PF rush, and stupid Zealot choice.

The zealot one was at least fun. 80% of my kills were by SCVs. :smallcool:

[arguskos]

Oh wow people showed this week? Man, the hell. I'm on till 7ish and only Rec was there. :smallannoyed:

Did the time change to 10 PM when I wasn't looking or some such? If so, that'd be handy knowledge, so I can actually show up.

[Tavar]

I don't think the time changed, but I generally have more free time later in the evening than earlier.

[Spartacus]

If I show up it's typically later. I think I said that in the other thread. People should just keep checking in, who knows when people will arrive?

[DrizztFan24]

With a lack of Day[9] and our favorite number j, I have come to realize that we need our own funday monday again. I suggest that you must fast expand...to your opponents natural. If their natural is already taken, you must expand to a logical choice of a third, from their perspective.

[Dragon Elite]

Well, should be semi-easy with a 4-gate, because you're gonna make a pylon there anyway. I will try this.

Do you have to hold the natural? Or does it just have to finish?

My idea for a funday monday is you must expo every 4 minutes... On the dot.

[Suedars]

Well, should be semi-easy with a 4-gate, because you're gonna make a pylon there anyway. I will try this.

Do you have to hold the natural? Or does it just have to finish?

My idea for a funday monday is you must expo every 4 minutes... On the dot.

Not holding it certainly wouldn't be in the spirit of things.

And the expo every 4 minutes was already done (though I think it was every 5).

[LordShotGun]

Seems like this would be fun for zergs. Pool first, no gas, then expand and builds tons of spine crawlers at the enemy's natural before going roaches.

Roaches because the are pretty damn slow early game but are defensive and offensive beasts.

[Dragon Elite]

Seems like this would be fun for zergs. Pool first, no gas, then expand and builds tons of spine crawlers at the enemy's natural before going roaches.

Roaches because the are pretty damn slow early game but are defensive and offensive beasts.

Someone pulled this strategy in a 1v1 obs match I played, because with queens you can spread creep up their ramp and push up with spines.

[arguskos]

Someone pulled this strategy in a 1v1 obs match I played, because with queens you can spread creep up their ramp and push up with spines.
That was a great match. :smallcool:

[Dragon Elite]

That was a great match. :smallcool:

It was actually 4 matches. :smallcool: I need to learn that strat.

[Thiyr]

So question for you guys. I've been noticing that one of my big, big holes in terms of things i don't know how to deal with in PvP is the 4gate. Any particular ideas on good means of beating it (Aside from just getting better with my macro, that's just my eternal work in progress). I can generally hold them outside my ramp, but not being able to expo ends up slowing enough that I end up getting worn down. Tips?

[Kyeudo]

So question for you guys. I've been noticing that one of my big, big holes in terms of things i don't know how to deal with in PvP is the 4gate. Any particular ideas on good means of beating it (Aside from just getting better with my macro, that's just my eternal work in progress). I can generally hold them outside my ramp, but not being able to expo ends up slowing enough that I end up getting worn down. Tips?

The four gate runs out of steam after about four minutes of pressure. Day9 did a daily on him learning to beat a 4 gate. Two parter even. Once the four gate runs out of cash, there's about a four minute window where you can push the four gate off your front and expand because they either then take their own expo or they start teching to Colossi.

[The Glyphstone]

I'm depressed - I just got my butt handed to me by a Medium AI; I was goofing off and trying mass spine/spore crawler; it broke my crawler horde with Colossi, then rolled up my entire tumor line with an Observer and dudes. I had completely neglected to build any tech structures other than a Spawning pool in the meantime, and an Evo chamber for the spores...

I suck at Zerg.

[Thiyr]

The four gate runs out of steam after about four minutes of pressure. Day9 did a daily on him learning to beat a 4 gate. Two parter even. Once the four gate runs out of cash, there's about a four minute window where you can push the four gate off your front and expand because they either then take their own expo or they start teching to Colossi.

Which daily was that? gonna need to give that a watch, considering that's the big build that messes me up way down in silver league.

[Kyeudo]

Here's the one I remember. (http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-272-combating-the-4gate-in-pvp-4929753) Wasn't a two parter, but I guess I crossed it with another Day9 special.

[u-gotNOgame]

Also in his recent "Steal this build" series, while he was at dreamhack, Day[9] did a 30 minute things on Liquid Tyler's PvP build that he helped with. It was basically a 2 gate robo build that utilized fast immortal to rip the stalkers to shreds.

Sorry for popping in; I watch a lot of Starcraft 2 but have yet to buy it because I have neither the funds nor the time to devote to getting good.

-UGNG

[Kyeudo]

Sorry for popping in; I watch a lot of Starcraft 2 but have yet to buy it because I have neither the funds nor the time to devote to getting good.

-UGNG

Don't apologize. Just because you don't play doesn't mean you can't see solutions. I can see why a pro's strategy works, even though I can't beat a pro. Armchair generals actually have a place in SC2.

[u-gotNOgame]

Don't apologize. Just because you don't play doesn't mean you can't see solutions. I can see why a pro's strategy works, even though I can't beat a pro. Armchair generals actually have a place in SC2.

Yeah, I mean worker rush's are totally viable. I don't know why people don't do them more often...

I know that there are some great theorists out there but usually people respect people they not only know (hence the introduction) but can also perform and teach well; though I suppose pointing him towards a free VOD doesn't really depend much on my ability.

-UGNG

[Dragon Elite]

Although, unfortunately, most people do not believe such things on the SC2 forums. *shudders* Never go there.

Also, the 3-stalker robo (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/3_Stalker_Robo_%28vs._Protoss%29) works well.

[u-gotNOgame]

That build is interesting Dragon- it's similar to Liquid Tyler's PvP (http://blip.tv/day9tv/starcraft-2-steal-this-build-liquid-tyler-s-pvp-5283767), that I'd mentioned earlier, it just relies on pylon denying instead of trying to win a straight up fight. Both leave you in the same sort of position too. Faster robo tech and the ability and leaner production facilities.

[Dragon Elite]

That build is interesting Dragon- it's similar to Liquid Tyler's PvP (http://blip.tv/day9tv/starcraft-2-steal-this-build-liquid-tyler-s-pvp-5283767), that I'd mentioned earlier, it just relies on pylon denying instead of trying to win a straight up fight. Both leave you in the same sort of position too. Faster robo tech and the ability and leaner production facilities.

They... actually seem to be around the same, with some small changes.

[term1nally s1ck]

The difference is in the timings and the goals

The 3-stalker robo relies on your stalkers to prevent a forward pylon, slowing the 4-gate down slightly, giving you time to get the immortal out before the 4-gate hits you, and to prevent pylons warping anything into your base until much later.

The tyler PvP relies on the VERY lean timings to have an immortal already out at 4-gate timing, and sentries to hold the ramp and prevent vision into your main, then abusing how much damage immortals do.

[Newhill]

Ladder pool updates! Test maps for season 3 announced.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/2943356

I have only really looked at the 1v1 maps, and I kinda like number 4, except they all seem a little small too me. I like me some space to maneuver.

[u-gotNOgame]

I have only really looked at the 1v1 maps, and I kinda like number 4, except they all seem a little small too me. I like me some space to maneuver.

Blizzard has seemed to favor smaller maps in general. Even large "macro" maps have the ability to be rushed, I mean we saw Moon 6 pool (albeit unsuccessfully, thought with a later scout it very well could have won him the tournament) on Tal'Darim Altar in the Dreamhack grand finals.

I will note that the fourth, "Macro", map in non cross position has seemingly short drop distances either at the third or into the main. Even if the three bases share a choke.

-UGNG

[Suedars]

Yeah, the new maps are pretty terrible. It's weird since when the last set of maps was released, Blizzard said that they realized that the game needs larger maps to truly thrive. Now they're back to making tiny maps that just support endless one and two base all-ins. Not that that's too surprising, since the game's lead balance designer did nothing but two base all-ins during Blizzard's in house tournament.

[Artanis]

When does the next season start, anyways?

[Daverin]

Hey everyone, I've recently decided to reinstall Starcraft 2, which I haven't played for probably near half a year now. What has changed, remained the same, etc?

[term1nally s1ck]

half a year???

Erm.

Roach range buff, khaydarian amulet removed. Archons buffed to Massive and range buffed to compensate, chargelot archon now viable. Fungal growth changed to 4s but does more damage vs armored. Infestors gained HUGE popularity, are becoming more and more and more popular.

PvZ is the most complained about matchup due to the FFE being so popular, Zerg struggles to balance macroing and still surviving a 5-6gate push. It seems like nobody is happy with it.
TvT is still the same tank marine long drawn out stuff.
TvZ is still tank marine vs muta ling baneling
PvP isn't 4-gate all the time anymore, though it is still viable, but lategame is still colossus wars. Chargelot archon is gaining in popularity though.
TvP is an interesting rotation between chargelot archon and colossus deathballs, while the terran counters colossi with vikings and templar/archons with ghosts, trying to maintain the MMM ball.
ZvZ is roach infestor.

Right now, ghosts are shooting up in popularity all over the place, ling infestor seems viable against literally everything, but is still being developed. Everyone still hates on every other race.

[Daverin]

Archons being used in a comp? This game is going in a good direction, by my book! :smallbiggrin:

Also, for the first page info, my ingame name is Algalon, North American server (Before you ask, yes, it was named after THAT Algalon. I'm a Blizz nerd, what can I say? :smalltongue:)

[Draken]

>_>

I got cheesed by a gold leaguer.

From one side, I am extremely upset at my innability to handle all-in strategies (it was a six pool... Or was it the three rax all in... One of the two, two all-ins in a row, yay!).

From another I am mildly excited that I am being matched with golds.

From a third, I am mildly upset that this thing matched me with a gold but has not even deigned to move me to silver first.

Overall, I still detest suffering early rush all-ins.

[Suedars]

PvZ is the most complained about matchup due to the FFE being so popular, Zerg struggles to balance macroing and still surviving a 5-6gate push. It seems like nobody is happy with it.


FFE is still very vulnerable to 2 base roach all-ins.

[LordShotGun]

FFE is still very vulnerable to 2 base roach all-ins.

That is where scouting and game sense come in. On larger maps you can get away with just stalkers and sentries defending the protoss FE but on smaller maps you need to get a stargate and a single voidray to counter a possible roach rus.

[Suedars]

That is where scouting and game sense come in. On larger maps you can get away with just stalkers and sentries defending the protoss FE but on smaller maps you need to get a stargate and a single voidray to counter a possible roach rus.

I'm not saying it's impossible to hold a roach rush. Just that you're disadvantaged. And void rays are pretty bad against roach rushes. For the cost of the stargate+void ray, you could have an extra gate and several stalkers/sentries instead.

[Recaiden]

That is where scouting and game sense come in. On larger maps you can get away with just stalkers and sentries defending the protoss FE but on smaller maps you need to get a stargate and a single voidray to counter a possible roach rus.

You mean a single void ray to be totally ineffective while roaches run freely through your base? An immortal will help you more.

[term1nally s1ck]

I was watching MLG and Dreamhack, and Void rays were the best defence by far. It takes some time for them to break in, and once they do you pull probes and kill the all in off with the void ray. However, most of the time, the toss was able to defend.

Check out MC vs IdrA from MLG, the second time around. Void rays beat out the all in every time.

[Suedars]

Check out MC vs IdrA from MLG, the second time around. Void rays beat out the all in every time.

Citing MC vs. Idra games isn't that good, since MC is about 100x better than Idra, especially in executing/holding all-ins. Idra's control is average at best, while it's one of MC's strongest suits. He could probably hold a roach all-in from Idra going pure zealots.

[term1nally s1ck]

then check out the rest of dreamhack and MLG.

[Suedars]

then check out the rest of dreamhack and MLG.

I'm not going to go rooting through a ton of replays just for this point.

Anyways, if the toss held it was in spite of the void ray, not because of it. Their damage is hit hard by the roach's armor, since they fire so fast, and they're usually not going to get a chance to charge up because the individual roaches will be dying too quickly.

Stargate+Void Ray costs 400/300. For that price you could get another gateway, a zealot, and three sentries, giving you substantially more dps than the void ray, and at least 3 more force fields which are the most important thing for holding off roach aggression. Sure, you can lose those units, unlike the void ray, but you'll still be much better off with them.

[Legoshrimp]

Heh, if you can hold with the void ray though you are able to do something after holding, and have further tech. So you can defend and do something afterwards, while with the extra gateway you still can only defend and not push out. So being able to get a void ray, defend, then go kill their workers puts you in a much better position then just doing a build where you can survive, but put no aggression on your opponent.

[Suedars]

Heh, if you can hold with the void ray though you are able to do something after holding, and have further tech. So you can defend and do something afterwards, while with the extra gateway you still can only defend and not push out. So being able to get a void ray, defend, then go kill their workers puts you in a much better position then just doing a build where you can survive, but put no aggression on your opponent.

If you go for a forge fast expand and they 2-base roach all-in, you're already ahead if you can hold without losing too much. It's pretty simple to either add on another gate or two and crush them with a 6 gate, or to tech to blink and kill them that way.

[term1nally s1ck]

Actually, the Void ray can charge on a single roach, and then demolishes the rest of the units.

And remember, all while the roaches have to break through the cannon, forge, wait for the single forcefield to go down/kill another building, I have a voidray pounding away at the army. It takes quite some time to break through that sort of wall-in, and the void will have done a LOT of damage.

The reason it holds it better is because the enemy units can't kill it. If you're trying to hold vs a roach ling all in with 4 sentries, maybe 4 zealots, maybe a stalker, and a cannon, you're gonna REALLY struggle. It'll be a battle of control. With a void ray? Meh, I'll lose a building, maybe a pylon or two, and probably several probes. I'll stabilise when I get my second void ray, and re-wall in.

EDIT:

On another topic, I'm looking at the list of units that are negated by point defence drone, and....is it me, or does every single unit that zerg has that shoot air get blocked? I'm tempted to test out some primarily air comps against zerg, see if banshee/viking/raven is effective. I know it beats toss if they don't just go mass feedback..

[Suedars]

Actually, the Void ray can charge on a single roach, and then demolishes the rest of the units.

And remember, all while the roaches have to break through the cannon, forge, wait for the single forcefield to go down/kill another building, I have a voidray pounding away at the army. It takes quite some time to break through that sort of wall-in, and the void will have done a LOT of damage.

The reason it holds it better is because the enemy units can't kill it. If you're trying to hold vs a roach ling all in with 4 sentries, maybe 4 zealots, maybe a stalker, and a cannon, you're gonna REALLY struggle. It'll be a battle of control. With a void ray? Meh, I'll lose a building, maybe a pylon or two, and probably several probes. I'll stabilise when I get my second void ray, and re-wall in.

What? Getting to Void Rays takes time. Even fully chronoing it you normally won't get your void ray out till after they already engaged and battered down your wall-in unless they're messing up their timing.


On another topic, I'm looking at the list of units that are negated by point defence drone, and....is it me, or does every single unit that zerg has that shoot air get blocked? I'm tempted to test out some primarily air comps against zerg, see if banshee/viking/raven is effective. I know it beats toss if they don't just go mass feedback..

I think pure muta might be able to beat that. They shoot pretty quickly to deal with the PDDs, and vikings are atrocious against them.

How does muta bounce work with PDDs? If it can still bounce, mutas will just roll over that.

[Eldariel]

I think pure muta might be able to beat that. They shoot pretty quickly to deal with the PDDs, and vikings are atrocious against them.

How does muta bounce work with PDDs? If it can still bounce, mutas will just roll over that.

Bounce is negated if the projectile doesn't hit. And Vikings aren't exactly terrible against Mutas; not optimal but not terrible either. If the Ravens have Seeker Missile, the combo can actually work. Thing is, the amount of Ravens and Vikings you need for it leaves you with a dearth for AG damage.

[Suedars]

Bounce is negated if the projectile doesn't hit. And Vikings aren't exactly terrible against Mutas; not optimal but not terrible either. If the Ravens have Seeker Missile, the combo can actually work. Thing is, the amount of Ravens and Vikings you need for it leaves you with a dearth for AG damage.

Vikings still lose quite a bit to mutas. It's not zergling vs. archon bad, but you still don't want your vikings to be facing mutas. Seeker missiles can be dodged with hit and run attacks, since mutas are faster than them by quite a bit, and they detonate after a few seconds if they don't reach their target. Forcing the mutas to bounce in and out will certainly help things, but it still doesn't seem like a favorable composition, especially since zerg will have a bunch of excess minerals they can use to either mass queens, or spam zerglings for map control and harassment.

[Tavar]

Okay, if vikings lose vs Muta, what's a good Terran counter?

[Eldariel]

Vikings still lose quite a bit to mutas. It's not zergling vs. archon bad, but you still don't want your vikings to be facing mutas. Seeker missiles can be dodged with hit and run attacks, since mutas are faster than them by quite a bit, and they detonate after a few seconds if they don't reach their target. Forcing the mutas to bounce in and out will certainly help things, but it still doesn't seem like a favorable composition, especially since zerg will have a bunch of excess minerals they can use to either mass queens, or spam zerglings for map control and harassment.

If Mutas have to pull after diving in due to Seeker, they'll give Viking a bunch of free kills due to the ridiculous Viking-range. Though I'm not sure which is more efficient, PDD or Seeker. That said, I'm fairly sure an equal mine/gas investment of Viking+Raven vs. Muta will have Viking+Raven coming out on top in sufficient numbers (of course, since Mutas are easier to produce as Zerg doesn't need separate production structures, this might not happen, and Mutas are more mobile and can attack ground).


Okay, if vikings lose vs Muta, what's a good Terran counter?

Marines. Marine/Thor in particular. Missile Turrets also. Need Irradiate, sigh.

[term1nally s1ck]

thors and rines.

I suspect that if I'm going raven banshee viking, I'll be using the minerals on a LOT of marines, and interestingly, viking raven does remarkably well against mutas, even without using seekers. The only issue I can see is if someone responds with literally mass queens with their minerals.

As for void ray defences, go check out MC vs IdrA at MLG. He has it up just in time for the defence.

[LordShotGun]

What? Getting to Void Rays takes time. Even fully chronoing it you normally won't get your void ray out till after they already engaged and battered down your wall-in unless they're messing up their timing.


Void Rays are very very good versus roaches. Roaches only have one armor now and void rays deal extra damage to them. You can also get void rays out before warp gates are available, and holding off roaches with gateway units without warp gates is difficult at best.

This is what I do with a forge fast expand versus zerg. One star gate and two bases allow you to tech up to colossi if you get two phoenixes after the void ray. The void ray and phoenix force the zerg to get an evolution chamber and at least one spore crawler per expansion or get mercilessly harassed by the void and phoenix. Even if you can not harass the main base, you prevent scouting by going overlord hunting.

If you get really lucky the zerg will go hydras and by the time they move out you should have 2-3 extended range colossi with no corruptors in sight.

This is pretty much the build I go every time I face a zerg and it usually works. It prevents muta harass, counters mass roaches, possibly forces hydras, and if the zerg does go infestor I get a few more phoenix and gravaton beam them during battles (since my stalker colossi ball can A move).

I am in platinum and this is my favorite strategy as I love facing zerg players (and I hate PvP, so boring)

[Khosan]

Alright, apparently my first match for that GeForce SC2 Pro/Am I signed up for is tomorrow at 8, and I'm up against some guy named Epilepsy.

I want to check him out on the ladder, just to see if I have a shot.

[Dragon Elite]

I love 6-poolers. Not just because I can easily hold them off, but also because I make fun of them.

Did you know that a 7-pool is actually faster than a 6-pool? :smallbiggrin::smalltongue:

[Kyeudo]

Did you know that a 7-pool is actually faster than a 6-pool? :smallbiggrin::smalltongue:

Really? Why?

[Dragon Elite]

Really? Why?

The 7th worker gives you more minerals, even though you lose 50 at the beginning. At least, I've heard it been said and someone had a graph somewhere.

[iyaerP]

On another topic, I'm looking at the list of units that are negated by point defence drone, and....is it me, or does every single unit that zerg has that shoot air get blocked? I'm tempted to test out some primarily air comps against zerg, see if banshee/viking/raven is effective. I know it beats toss if they don't just go mass feedback..



If I am going massed Terran air, I am a LOT more worried about fungal growths + infested terrans than hydras or queens.

[term1nally s1ck]

Fungals take something like 5 castings to kill most air. It's micro intensive, but splitting the army up and chasing down each infestor with banshees will make them run out of fungals before you run out of units. If they try and do the fungal/infested terran combo, they either have to use a LOT of terrans, which costs a pile of energy anyway, or the banshees will kill the terrans before they pop.

I'm aware infestors seem to be the only counter to it, but it's nowhere near as bad a counter as the 'toss high templar just going 'lol feedback' and killing literally my entire army. If I can scout the threat of infestors before he builds up significant amounts of energy, I can deal with it.

EDIT: The 7-pool isn't faster than a 6-pool for the first set of lings, but it can afford more lings faster, and the difference in speed is 8 blizz-seconds.

[Karoht]

The 7th worker gives you more minerals, even though you lose 50 at the beginning. At least, I've heard it been said and someone had a graph somewhere.

Graphs can prove anything right. :smallcool:

[The Glyphstone]

http://www.seanbonner.com/blog/archives/piratesarecool.jpg

Pirates prevent global warming.

[ragingrage]

Come on, you don't need a graph for that. Everyone knows that already.

[Murska]

http://www.seanbonner.com/blog/archives/piratesarecool.jpg

Pirates prevent global warming.

But. Somali piracy was on the rise and global warming just kept getting worse.

It's more likely NINJAS prevent global warming.

[term1nally s1ck]

I'm more amused by the 'approximately' 17 pirates in the world in 2000.

[Karoht]

Pirates prevent global warming.Holy mole-y! You're right, just look at that line!

What was I saying?
Yeah, I was pointing out that graphs prove anything.
Well, sounds like an experiment. Two players meet up on a small map. One 6pool, one 7 pool, lets see what happens. Lets also test the difference between the two VS a standard wall in. So we pit a 6 pool against a protoss wall in, followed by a 7 pool against the same wall in.

And as an added bonus, post screenshots of the graphs at the end. Yay, graphs!

EDIT:

But. Somali piracy was on the rise and global warming just kept getting worse.But so was Somali pirate killing and bounty collection.
Though you might be right about the ninja's.

[Spartacus]

I play my first GeForce Pro/Am game in about half an hour. Here's hoping Lyse doesn't show.

[Khosan]

I play my first GeForce Pro/Am game in about half an hour. Here's hoping Lyse doesn't show.

19 minutes. At this point, you're lucky to be able to even check in. The website's straining under our tremendous girth.

[Spartacus]

Lost my first game, but am confident I can win the series. I lost due to my own horrible mistake, and not his skillful play.

[Khosan]

Okay, apparently, my match is actually scheduled for Sunday.

Or so I assume due to my inability to click the 'Check in' button and the countdown timer being at 3 days 0 hours, 5 minutes. Though everything else told me June 23rd, including the e-mail and a couple different places on the actual match page.

[Spartacus]

Yeah, they scheduled all the matches for the same time, I think, and that's what killed them. Maybe they're trying to spread the load out a bit.

Also, had the enemy contained, was up 3 bases to one, my first pair of colossus were about to pop, and I DC to give him the second win. I'm raging hard right now.

[Winterwind]

Reminder: The next weekly session is tomorrow. I hope you all have fun. :smallcool:

[Dragon Elite]

I think we should do monobattles, but make everyone Gold or higher use only their mouse. :smallamused: :smalltongue:

[Silverraptor]

The thing is, I have a platinum level zerg here at the camp I'm working at and he says I'm definately gold player level. However, he says its practically impossible for me to get out of bronze, so expect my rank to stay that way for a long time.

[Kyeudo]

The thing is, I have a platinum level zerg here at the camp I'm working at and he says I'm definately gold player level. However, he says its practically impossible for me to get out of bronze, so expect my rank to stay that way for a long time.

Why would it be impossible for you to get out of bronze if you are better quality material? The ladder ranking system is impartial and divorced from points, so as long as you actually are improving, you will move up eventually.

[Artanis]

Why would it be impossible for you to get out of bronze if you are better quality material? The ladder ranking system is impartial and divorced from points, so as long as you actually are improving, you will move up eventually.

Your MMR has to stabilize. If it keeps going up and up and up - or yo-yoing up and down - it won't promote you until it settles down.

[faceroll]

Oh man, FFAs are so fun. I won with massed cattlebruisers, and now I just forced 3 ragequits with constant nukes. Bwahahaha.

[Kyeudo]

Your MMR has to stabilize. If it keeps going up and up and up - or yo-yoing up and down - it won't promote you until it settles down.

Yes, but the quality of the people you are playing will also go up. You can check the profiles of your last few matches to see about where your MMR is currently placing you. If Silverraptor is really in Gold, then his last few matches will have been against Gold players.

[Artanis]

Yes, but the quality of the people you are playing will also go up. You can check the profiles of your last few matches to see about where your MMR is currently placing you. If Silverraptor is really in Gold, then his last few matches will have been against Gold players.

This is true. If his MMR is in Gold, then he'll be playing against Gold. What I mean is that until his MMR stabilizes, it'll keep showing him as being in Bronze....which is currently the case. He's a Gold-level player being matched against other Gold-level players, but stuck in a Bronze division for the time being.

[Silverraptor]

Yes, but the quality of the people you are playing will also go up. You can check the profiles of your last few matches to see about where your MMR is currently placing you. If Silverraptor is really in Gold, then his last few matches will have been against Gold players.

Yup. My last few matches have been against Gold or High Silver players.

[Dragon Elite]

This is what you get when you're playing Outbreak and use reapers with bunkers to hold of the enemy.

http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc369/Julian_Zucker/Screenshot2011-06-24at90955AM.png

I am gonna replay that mission and see how high I can get.

[arguskos]

I am gonna replay that mission and see how high I can get.
My record on a single unit is 5000+ kills. :smalltongue: That was on Brutal, btws.

It was a Siege Breaker, set on the high ground where the sensor tower is. They never reached it.

[Karoht]

My record on a single unit is 5000+ kills. :smalltongue: That was on Brutal, btws.

It was a Siege Breaker, set on the high ground where the sensor tower is. They never reached it.
Wait, you mean a Siege Tank? On the Outbreak mission?

...dude. How do you get one of those by that mission?

[arguskos]

Wait, you mean a Siege Tank? On the Outbreak mission?

...dude. How do you get one of those by that mission?
I did a special run for Outbreak once. :smalltongue: I did EVERYTHING before Outbreak (yes, it is possible), and had every unit, every research, a massive amount of tech, etc. The only stuff I didn't have were Vikings. :smallcool:

Btws, Jackson's Revenge+2 Science Vessels can solo that entire mission on Brutal at night. So can a squad of three perma-cloaked Specters. :smallcool:

Alsoalso, I discovered that Cerberus Mines utterly annihilate that mission. I ended up with Vultures that had hundreds of kills each. My siege tanks had between 4-5k kills each.

[Dragon Elite]

I did it as my second mission, only thing I used was reapers (and Fortified Bunkers)

Image dump:
http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc369/Julian_Zucker/Screenshot2011-06-24at124205PM.png
http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc369/Julian_Zucker/Screenshot2011-06-24at124209PM.png
http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc369/Julian_Zucker/Screenshot2011-06-24at124153PM.png
http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc369/Julian_Zucker/Screenshot2011-06-24at124158PM.png
http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc369/Julian_Zucker/Screenshot2011-06-24at124222PM.png
http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc369/Julian_Zucker/Screenshot2011-06-24at124218PM.png
http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc369/Julian_Zucker/Screenshot2011-06-24at90955AM-1.png


This was 8 reapers, I used a larger squad of ~50 to kill buildings, then they had a wine party and chilled while those 8 held off the enemy (on Normal, because I also wanted to get the achievement. The 39 kill reaper just didn't like shooting very much I guess.


Also, semi-related joke: What do you call a gun that shoots scissors?
Answer:A snipper rifle. :P
@/\ Dangit, now I have to try that. :smalltongue:

[arguskos]

@/\ Dangit, now I have to try that. :smalltongue:
Brother, I've done nigh-everything that can be done on that mission. Outbreak is so much fun. :smallcool:

I managed to get a science vessel over 100 kills. A SCIENCE VESSEL, people! :smalltongue:

Also, once, I built perdition turrets in their bases and used the turrets to kill them instead of using real units.

[Dragon Elite]

MISSILE TURRET RUSH!
I did that in an FFA. I won.

[Karoht]

I did a special run for Outbreak once. :smalltongue: I did EVERYTHING before Outbreak (yes, it is possible), and had every unit, every research, a massive amount of tech, etc. The only stuff I didn't have were Vikings. :smallcool:

Btws, Jackson's Revenge+2 Science Vessels can solo that entire mission on Brutal at night. So can a squad of three perma-cloaked Specters. :smallcool:

Alsoalso, I discovered that Cerberus Mines utterly annihilate that mission. I ended up with Vultures that had hundreds of kills each. My siege tanks had between 4-5k kills each.
Dear gods! I must try this. Sounds like such a blast!
Dumb question, does it get harder every night? Do the waves get bigger indefinately?

[The Glyphstone]

Dear gods! I must try this. Sounds like such a blast!
Dumb question, does it get harder every night? Do the waves get bigger indefinately?

I'm pretty sure it gets easier every night, if you're killing buildings during the day. The nights don't get longer - or at least, I don't think they do - and the buildings can only spawn zombies so fast.

[Karoht]

I'm pretty sure it gets easier every night, if you're killing buildings during the day. The nights don't get longer - or at least, I don't think they do - and the buildings can only spawn zombies so fast.
I wouldn't be killing buildings. I wanna see exactly how crazy-go-nuts it can get on Brutal. But with things like Battlecruisers and Thors and Siege Tanks. And then, just when I run out of minerals, go slog it out at night time with said bad ass units.
Because we can.