Your Mission: Destroy Earth

[pegase]

You are a level 30 wizard whose singular goal is to destroy the planet. Quite literally, wipe the entire surface clean, or split it apart from the center. What is the quickest way to accomplish this, if you were optimized?

[Gnoman]

Open a permanent gate to the Positive Energy Plane.

[Chess435]

I bet you could metamagic a Locate City Bomb into covering the entire planet! :smallbiggrin:

[pegase]

For my benefit, can we limit it to core spells stuff only?

[Darklady2831]

Well, easiest would be to open a permanent portal to every plane imaginable, in several places, all across the planet.

[The-Mage-King]

For my benefit, can we limit it to core spells stuff only?

No.


Anyway, the simple method would be Greater Creation, Anti-Osminium or whatever the densest element is called, with eschew materials. Really big boom.


Alternatively, there's an epic spell for that.

[Veyr]

A note here.

This:

wipe the entire surface cleanis generally much easier than this:

split it apart from the center

Wizardry might change that, but it's true for reality, anyway. The nuclear arsenals of several nations are sufficient to raze earth to the ground and kill just about all macroscopic organisms, but wouldn't have a prayer of actually damaging the globe itself.

[Z3ro]

Not really relevant to a wizard, but one of my favorite websites on this (sort of) topic.

http://qntm.org/destroy

[Zale]

Cast the Epic Spell: Global Warming, on everything everywhere until everything died.

[Emperor Ing]

Find a spell(s) that let you survive in space. Greater Teleport into Earth's orbit a few minutes before Earth will get to your position. Cast Wall of Force numerous times in Earth's path.
Laugh as the planet slams into the walls of force at tens of thousands of miles an hour.

[Bobmufin52]

Aren’t there spells to cause the world to freeze and to flame over in Frostburn and Sandstorm? It might not completely kill everyone, but it should get most of the job done to the point where you can finish the world off yourself.

[Tvtyrant]

Only Core? Gate in a being that knows where a Sphere of Annihilation is, then drop it into the ocean to destroy the entire ocean. With 70% of the worlds water simple gone all life will soon end from a lack of rain. If you need it to be somewhat faster then that send the Sphere into the core of the planet and cast Stone to Mud over and over again until the planet implodes.

[Talya]

Not really relevant to a wizard, but one of my favorite websites on this (sort of) topic.

http://qntm.org/destroy


Ah, one of my favorite sites. :)

[pegase]

Find a spell(s) that let you survive in space. Greater Teleport into Earth's orbit a few minutes before Earth will get to your position. Cast Wall of Force numerous times in Earth's path.
Laugh as the planet slams into the walls of force at tens of thousands of miles an hour.

Lol, I have to say, if you were an intergalactic supervillain this sounds like the best plan. Since the wall of force cannot move (relativity aside, I assume, since there's no absolute reference and even so I'm pretty sure the wall moves with you as you go around the planet), I wonder how hard a 10x10 immovable object hitting a planet would smash things up.

Now I think about it, how can the wall of force stay with the person if it doesn't move? Absolute motion doesn't exist, but even if the wall of force's final set velocity was the person's, it would eventually fly sky-high as you rotate with the earth but the wall of force doesn't.

Wait, is that the sound of catgirls dying?

[Zale]

Aren’t there spells to cause the world to freeze and to flame over in Frostburn and Sandstorm? It might not completely kill everyone, but it should get most of the job done to the point where you can finish the world off yourself.

That's what I suggested.

GLOBAL WARMING
Evocation [Fire]
Spellcraft DC: 150
Components: V, S, Ritual, XP
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: 0 ft.
Area: 100-mile-radius emanation
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
To Develop: 900,000 gp; 18 days;
36,000 XP. Seed: energy (weather)
(DC 25). Factors: 50 times increase
in base area (+200 DC), permanent
duration (×5). Mitigating factors:
increase casting time by 9 minutes
(–18 DC), eleven additional casters
contributing 9th-level spell slots
(–187 DC).
You increase the temperature of the
region, drying up water and baking
the soil within a 100-mile-radius area.
10 minutes after the spell is cast, the
temperature band increases to warm
or by one step (see page 12), whichever
produces the hotter result. Open
water and moisture in soil and plants
evaporates, creating desert conditions
that last until global warming is dispelled.
If the region was ice-covered,
the snow and ice melt rapidly, which
might result in fl ooding.
Global warming counters and dispels
ice age (described in the Frostburn
supplement).
This is a ritual spell requiring eleven
other spellcasters, each of whom must
contribute an unused 9th-level spell
slot to the casting.
XP Cost: 5,000 XP.

[Shadowknight12]

Find a spell(s) that let you survive in space. Greater Teleport into Earth's orbit a few minutes before Earth will get to your position. Cast Wall of Force numerous times in Earth's path.
Laugh as the planet slams into the walls of force at tens of thousands of miles an hour.

Wouldn't work. If the planet could "collide" with a Wall of Force, it would do so every single time you cast it.

I'd research an Epic version of Shapechange that lets me shapechange into an Elder Evil. Then I'd go to town. Literally, I would go to town and the town would die.

[Bobmufin52]

That's what I suggested.

GLOBAL WARMING
Evocation [Fire]
Spellcraft DC: 150
Components: V, S, Ritual, XP
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: 0 ft.
Area: 100-mile-radius emanation
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
To Develop: 900,000 gp; 18 days;
36,000 XP. Seed: energy (weather)
(DC 25). Factors: 50 times increase
in base area (+200 DC), permanent
duration (×5). Mitigating factors:
increase casting time by 9 minutes
(–18 DC), eleven additional casters
contributing 9th-level spell slots
(–187 DC).
You increase the temperature of the
region, drying up water and baking
the soil within a 100-mile-radius area.
10 minutes after the spell is cast, the
temperature band increases to warm
or by one step (see page 12), whichever
produces the hotter result. Open
water and moisture in soil and plants
evaporates, creating desert conditions
that last until global warming is dispelled.
If the region was ice-covered,
the snow and ice melt rapidly, which
might result in fl ooding.
Global warming counters and dispels
ice age (described in the Frostburn
supplement).
This is a ritual spell requiring eleven
other spellcasters, each of whom must
contribute an unused 9th-level spell
slot to the casting.
XP Cost: 5,000 XP.

Is that what it's called? I though it was something else. lol

Oh, what also might work is cast one of the 2 spells, then wait like a week or two and then cast the other verion after the survivors get use to the new planet.

[Zale]

Yep. Epic spells are the way to go with this.

[Tvtyrant]

Wouldn't work. If the planet could "collide" with a Wall of Force, it would do so every single time you cast it.

I'd research an Epic version of Shapechange that lets me shapechange into an Elder Evil. Then I'd go to town. Literally, I would go to town and the town would die.

The difference is that making it on the planet the wall has the same momentum you do; if your floating in space the momentum is different and they can impact.

[Draconi Redfir]

Well, easiest would be to open a permanent portal to every plane imaginable, in several places, all across the planet.


Sooo... Rift?

[Zale]

On the note of Epic Spells, There's this (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Deplorable_Word_%283.5e_Epic_Spell%29).

[Shadowknight12]

The difference is that making it on the planet the wall has the same momentum you do; if your floating in space the momentum is different and they can impact.

If that was the case, you could make it impact the planet by casting it on a raised platform made of glass and then casting Shatter on it. Or on a raised platform made of sticks and paper and then setting it on fire. Or by casting it on solid ground and then disintegrating the floor under it.

And what if you cast it on a movable surface (like a ship), and then made it move?

Also, whether walls of force have mass is debatable, which means that whether or not they have momentum is debatable.

[Tvtyrant]

If that was the case, you could make it impact the planet by casting it on a raised platform made of glass and then casting Shatter on it. Or on a raised platform made of sticks and paper and then setting it on fire. Or by casting it on solid ground and then disintegrating the floor under it.

And what if you cast it on a movable surface (like a ship), and then made it move?

Also, whether walls of force have mass is debatable, which means that whether or not they have momentum is debatable.

Um, that wouldn't have any effect at all. See they move in the same path they were going at the same rate; if you dug away the ground beneath them they would float exactly where they were. By going into space you make the path of the walls movement different then the planets, so it would pass through the planet.

The ship thing wouldn't work, because the wall wouldn't move. There would now be a wall floating over the ocean.

Or we just call it borked like everything in D&D, so "a wizard did it." If it really made sense we wouldn't need DMs.

[Zale]

You could use Simulacrum to create a Beholder, then have it use disintegrate to destroy the entire world, one 10x10 block of mass at a time.

[pegase]

If you stand still on a planet, and you cast the wall of force, it will always be located by your frame of reference at the exact same place you had cast it earlier--according to the spell description.

This means that the wall of force always has your set vector velocity at the moment of casting, but that this vector velocity is entirely unchangeable (hence it cannot be moved by your frame of reference). However, for some strange reason, the wall of force turns with you as you turn on the planet. Curved movement like this is not a part of the vector velocity or any trait you could have imparted to an object immovable by your frame of reference at that given point of time.

So...

[Shadowknight12]

Um, that wouldn't have any effect at all. See they move in the same path they were going at the same rate; if you dug away the ground beneath them they would float exactly where they were. By going into space you make the path of the walls movement different then the planets, so it would pass through the planet.

The ship thing wouldn't work, because the wall wouldn't move. There would now be a wall floating over the ocean.

Or we just call it borked like everything in D&D, so "a wizard did it." If it really made sense we wouldn't need DMs.

Uhhh no. Not really. The air around it does not move at the same rate it was going. There is a difference in momentum right there. If you are standing on a bus, going at its speed, and someone disintegrates your seat, you will not fall directly down, you will also fall back as the bus carries on without you for as long as it takes you to touch "bus" again.


If you stand still on a planet, and you cast the wall of force, it will always be located by your frame of reference at the exact same place you had cast it earlier--according to the spell description.

This means that the wall of force always has your set vector velocity at the moment of casting, but that this vector velocity is entirely unchangeable (hence it cannot be moved by your frame of reference). However, for some strange reason, the wall of force turns with you as you turn on the planet. Curved movement like this is not a part of the vector velocity or any trait you could have imparted to an object immovable by your frame of reference at that given point of time.

So...

And it couldn't be, perhaps, that the wall of force exerts an opposing force on attempts to move it? But since the planet can move it, then perhaps this force has a limit, and it's merely a limit that no mere mortal can overcome?

EDIT: I still stand by my decision to become an Elder Evil. With the casting abilities of a 30th level wizard. :smalltongue:

EDIT 2:


To be fair, I think teleportation necessarily still keeps your initial velocity even after you teleport, because 1. there is no absolute frame of reference and 2. if you did stop moving relative to the Earth's spin you would die from acceleration induced trauma upon teleportation. Therefore by teleporting into space you would still have your velocity in earth, and so would the wall of force you cast.

Goddamn it, all those dead catgirls.

Teleportation is an instantaneous swap of matter from two different points of space. Of course it keeps your velocity. No time at all happens between swaps. :smallwink:

[Zale]

We're getting off topic here.

Remember, focus on the destruction of the world people! :belkar:

[pegase]

To be fair, I think teleportation necessarily still keeps your initial velocity even after you teleport, because 1. there is no absolute frame of reference and 2. if you did stop moving relative to the Earth's spin you would die from acceleration induced trauma upon teleportation. Therefore by teleporting into space you would still have your velocity in earth, and so would the wall of force you cast.

Goddamn it, all those dead catgirls.

[pegase]

We're getting off topic here.

Remember, focus on the destruction of the world people! :belkar:

You're right, of course. :smallsigh: World destruction is so hard to be serious about nowadays, those damn kids.

[Incanur]

You could use Simulacrum to create a Beholder, then have it use disintegrate to destroy the entire world, one 10x10 block of mass at a time.

Not a bad idea. With the Ignore Materials feat and a rod of excellent magic, you can cast simulacrum every day for absolutely free. Just using gate to get a pseudonatural umbral blot every day might be a better idea, however.

[Doc Roc]

1:Chain Gate solars. There's a countably infinite number of them.
2:Order them to purge the globe. I'm sure it did something evil once.
3:Sip martini on your new glass beaches.

Core only, can be done with a candle of invocation, known trick.

Do you want something inventive? Specific? Perhaps then maybe be specific? Tell us to be inventive?


Am I allowed the SRD? Or is this one of those narrow-narrow games? Is the ELH in core? What exactly are you using for epic rules?

[pegase]

1:Chain Gate solars. There's a countably infinite number of them.
2:Order them to purge the globe. I'm sure it did something evil once.
3:Sip martini on your new glass beaches.

Core only, can be done with a candle of invocation, known trick.

Do you want something inventive? Specific? Perhaps then maybe be specific? Tell us to be inventive?


Am I allowed the SRD? Or is this one of those narrow-narrow games? Is the ELH in core? What exactly are you using for epic rules?

1. Solars can gate? Or are we chain gating another way?
2. Technically I can command them as a level 30 wizard, so I suppose it doesn't matter if they agree with me or not. The problem is what happens at the end of 30 rounds or five minutes--do the infinite solars still want to help me? They're intelligent enough to know that the Earth probably shouldn't be destroyed.
3. I'm out of martini.

To be honest, I'm just trying to think of what a planar-traveling epic wizard would do if s/he should come across a particularly annoying planet about the size of Earth and decided to destroy it. I'm using d20srd.org as reference, so sure.

[drakir_nosslin]

1. Solars can gate? Or are we chain gating another way?

They cast spells as lvl 20 clerics. So yea, they can gate in more solars.

[pegase]

Does the typical solar have gate prepared? Does the creature "created" by gate move on the turn it is called? Can the infinite loop be done under 30 turns?

[Skrobo]

Cast wish.
Ask for 10 cubic feet of Botulinum toxin.
Win.

Hell, you can even do it with minor creation if you had some toxin to use as a sample.

[OracleofWuffing]

Not really relevant to a wizard, but one of my favorite websites on this (sort of) topic.

http://qntm.org/destroy
I don't know, a Wizard could apply most of the theory here...

Fabricate solves the matter-to-antimatter flipping going on with the Antimatter Earth collision, and that's Wiz 5, so we're not even touching stuff like Genesis or something. Wizards should have to trouble creating huge mirrors to focus the sun's rays on earth, bonus, they're in space so they're weightless, Mage Hand moves 'em (and if you really want to take this thought to its extreme, Mage Hand could move the Earth or accelerate its rotation). Commoner/Undead/Summoned Critter Railgun can suffice for a mass driver. Heat up the Sun with Fire spells and Prestidigitations to help it burn out faster (or kill Pelor). Accelerate time/time travel to a point when Heat Death/Proton Decay does the job for you.

To top it all off, though, there's an issue of resources that the Wizard has that the real world scientist doesn't. Where money, labor, and time are huge issues to the latter, the former has enough and then can just tell physics to shut up long enough that the Wizard can pull off several of these plans nearly simultaneously.


Does the typical solar have gate prepared? Does the creature "created" by gate move on the turn it is called? Can the infinite loop be done under 30 turns?
Even if preparation was a concern, Wish as a SLA means Candles of Invocations, means Gate.

[drakir_nosslin]

Does the typical solar have gate prepared? Does the creature "created" by gate move on the turn it is called? Can the infinite loop be done under 30 turns?

No need to worry for that. All you need to do is up your diplomacy or bluff (skills+spells+items will fix that, epic if you need them) and convince the solar that it needs to destroy the world, with the help of its buddies.
The solar then chills with you for 8 hrs, then prepares gate and calls his first friend. Repeat until you got enough solars to wipe the planet.

EDIT: This can also be used to cast silly epic spells with the "Additional participants (ritual)" migating factor.

[erikun]

1.) Enlarge the area for a Reverse Gravity spell so that it is high enough to launch objects into outer-orbit. Make it permanent. Note that you could always cast multiple instances of Reverse Gravity, one on top of another, if needed.

2.) Build some constructs, undead, or other undying automations. Give them adamantine shovels. Have them dig up ground and toss it into the Reverse Gravity field.

3.) Profit! You now have a magical mass driver, and the unquestioning workers to put it into use. Have fun.

[Chess435]

That sounds like a plot hook, to be honest. :smallwink:

[Slipperychicken]

On the note of Epic Spells, There's this (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Deplorable_Word_%283.5e_Epic_Spell%29).

Wait... just 70k damage? Wouldn't anything with regeneration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#regeneration) just be KO'd until its fast healing caught up? Disregard everything past this if damage from the spell would not be converted into nonlethal by regeneration... I wouldn't be surprised if I misread the rules again

[Math to see how many hit points SRD Trolls (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/troll.htm) recover per day... 24h*60min*10rounds*5regen = 72,000]

Trolls (and other creatures with regen 5) would shake the damage off after a little less than 10 days, and one of the following would happen

a) d6s from starvation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm) would, being unaffected by regeneration, overwhelm their hp and keep them in unconsciousness (oddly enough, the SRD entry on starvation/thirst doesn't say anything about death, just more d6s) until someone gave them food and water. As an amusing result, "don't feed the trolls" advances from internet meme to life-saving advice in the post-apocalypse.

b) "Regeneration does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation." So it would still restore the nonlethal damage from Starvation, which is not deducted from your hit points (not deduct the nonlethal damage number from your current hit points.). And then they wake up and happily repopulate the world without needing to eat, their clothes, homes, and possessions (not creatures) fully intact.

EDIT: And regardless, it wouldn't destroy most plant life, as the rules don't consider them to be creatures, so the Trolls could munch on berries or whatever after they wake up.

[pegase]

This is probably a stupid question, but when they give measurements for a spell's volume of effect (such as major creation), is that said number the volume itself or the measurement of each dimension assuming a cube?

[Chess435]

This is probably a stupid question, but when they give measurements for a spell's volume of effect (such as major creation), is that said number the volume itself or the measurement of each dimension assuming a cube?

It's the volume itself. I'd assume you can have it appear in whatever basic shape you want, as long as the volume does not exceed the spell's limit.

[ILM]

Uhhh no. Not really. The air around it does not move at the same rate it was going. There is a difference in momentum right there. If you are standing on a bus, going at its speed, and someone disintegrates your seat, you will not fall directly down, you will also fall back as the bus carries on without you for as long as it takes you to touch "bus" again.
Exactly. Just like when you're in that same bus and drop your sandwich, it's actually the guy 3 rows behind you who gets bologna all over his pants.

In other news, Newton Galileo.

edit: my old physics teacher would be ashamed of me.

editedit: also, now that I think of it, if you're standing on a bus and someone disintegrates your seat, nothing's actually likely to happen.

[Doc Roc]

Exactly. Just like when you're in that same bus and drop your sandwich, it's actually the guy 3 rows behind you who gets bologna all over his pants.

In other news, Newton Galileo.

edit: my old physics teacher would be ashamed of me.

editedit: also, now that I think of it, if you're standing on a bus and someone disintegrates your seat, nothing's actually likely to happen.

Other than a moment of sinking existential dread when you realize someone on the bus can actually disintegrate things.

[ILM]

Other than a moment of sinking existential dread when you realize someone on the bus can actually disintegrate things.
Are you kidding? I'd be all like "Hot dayum, magic's real!" (yeah, southern accent included) Don't lie to yourself, you know you would too.

[pegase]

I would reevaluate my life upon seeing someone with a disintegrate spell, knowing full well then that magic exists.

Then I would implore them to cast wall of force to see if it really does spin with the Earth.

[Hirax]

Sticking with space ideas, just use true creation to make a stone asteroid. Then use wall of stone to keep making it larger and larger (wall of stone melds with existing stone, even from other walls), until it's a suitable size to destroy earth, when set it in an orbit that will result in a head on collision.

edit: though of course, why bother manipulating your asteroid's orbit to collide with earth, when you could simply manipulate earth's orbit so that it falls into the sun.

[Fable Wright]

Sticking with space ideas, just use true creation to make a stone asteroid. Then use wall of stone to keep making it larger and larger (wall of stone melds with existing stone, even from other walls), until it's a suitable size to destroy earth, when set it in an orbit that will result in a head on collision.

edit: though of course, why bother manipulating your asteroid's orbit to collide with earth, when you could simply manipulate earth's orbit so that it falls into the sun.

Or just hit planet with giant meteor? Check with your local paleontologist for more details.

[pegase]

Working backwards from the five pounds of weight mage hand on any plane of variable gravity, it follows that it's not actually limited by mass, so if we had a plane with almost nonexistent gravity (i.e., space), it would actually still lift what would weigh five pounds in space--which is almost anything.

You can move anything of five pounds a total of 15ft in one move action, roughly 3 seconds. So that's a velocity of 5ft/second.

Creating a sphere of diamond in space with major creation of 1ft^3/level (therefore 30ft^3 assuming a level 30 wizard). Diamond as a mass of ~9.8g. 9.8*30=

Wait.

It's summer time, why am I even thinking?

Edit: Even so, I should have converted 30ft^3 into m^3, then multiplied it with 9.8g converted into kg (mass squared thereafter), and finally multiplied by one-half, for a more useful measure.

[GallóglachMaxim]

- Dominate Person
-'Launch a selection of your finest nuclear weapons at the following places'
- Copycats
- Find alternate planet

[NichG]

How about the following:

Cast Permanency+Gust of Wind in a location.
Cast Prismatic Sphere around the location.

If Gust of Wind gives you a fixed wind speed rather than an additive wind speed, you'll get constant 2.24 m/s (50mph) steady state vortex with a radius of 10ft ~= 3m.

The viscosity of air is 2.2 x 10^-5 N s / m^2

The energy this converts to heat per unit time given this geometry is approximately 0.0014 watts. This means that every 3 years, the temperature inside the sphere increases by about 1C, accelerating slightly as the viscosity increases with temperature. After 30000000 years, the oxygen in the sphere will begin to fuse. Wait long enough, drop the sphere, and boom.

If gust of wind adds to the current wind speed, then you're transfering 11.2 kg m/s of linear momentum every second, or in this geometry 22.4 kg m^2/s of angular momentum. That means that in 2.5 hours, the temperature is about 1000C. In 9 days, its 10 million C. Wait long enough, drop the sphere, and boom.

The middle ground is that gust of wind transfers a fixed amount of energy per time sufficient to take at rest air to 50 mph. That turns out to be about 15 watts, so the 10 million C point is about 2875 years.

Not the fastest method though :smallsmile:

I personally like the Energy Transformation Field exponential amplifier, but its non-core. Use an ETF with the appropriate Planar Binding or Summon Monster spell to summon something that can use Lv1 spells, along with an automated thing to tell them to cast at the field. As long as they summon more than 1 copy of themselves before the spell expires, you get exponential growth and the planet is choked to death on Lantern Archons or whatever you choose to summon.

[Veyr]

I personally like the Energy Transformation Field exponential amplifier, but its non-core. Use an ETF with the appropriate Planar Binding or Summon Monster spell to summon something that can use Lv1 spells, along with an automated thing to tell them to cast at the field. As long as they summon more than 1 copy of themselves before the spell expires, you get exponential growth and the planet is choked to death on Lantern Archons or whatever you choose to summon.
Doesn't work: Conjuration (Summoning) spells disable the Conjuration (Summoning) spells of creatures summoned. Only Conjuration (Calling) spells will work, which means you'll have to use Planar Binding or Gate, and then only for something that can use a Conjuration (Calling) spell. There are options for that, of course (Gate for a Solar is the most common version), but Conjuration (Calling) spells generally leave a lot more room for the called creature to not obey (for instance, if at some point this trick is going to cause a danger to the creature Called, it's not going to do it).

[Zale]

You could use the Abyssal Army spell (Spell Compendium).


It would summon you 2d4 dretches, 1d4 Babu and a Vrock over 30 minutes.

And at level 30, it would last five hours. With ten minute casting time..

You could easily take the time to build up a tiny army, and still have a few hours to go destroy stuff.


You can't use metamagic on a ninth level spell, can you? If you could, you could extend it. Then you'd have an army for several hours.

[NichG]

Doesn't work: Conjuration (Summoning) spells disable the Conjuration (Summoning) spells of creatures summoned. Only Conjuration (Calling) spells will work, which means you'll have to use Planar Binding or Gate, and then only for something that can use a Conjuration (Calling) spell. There are options for that, of course (Gate for a Solar is the most common version), but Conjuration (Calling) spells generally leave a lot more room for the called creature to not obey (for instance, if at some point this trick is going to cause a danger to the creature Called, it's not going to do it).

You just need to summon something with an at will 1st level spell or better. Any will do. The Energy Transformation Field is the thing casting the Conjuration (Summoning) spell, not the summoned creature.

[Zale]

What source book is that, By the way?

[NichG]

Energy Transformation Field is in Spell Compendium.

Barbazu are a good choice, as they have a 7th level spell at will (Greater Teleport) and they only take 5 spell levels to summon. So a 13th level caster using ETF gets 91 spell levels per iteration, which is about an 18 to 1 amplification factor. At those rates, you summon 10^12 Barbazu in about 10 minutes. Mostly the problem would be that they'd eventually be out of range of the ETF due to the press of bodies.

You can also overlap ETFs and they will probabilistically get 50% of the spells thrown their way. Use that to tap your infinite spell engine for various uses. 10^12 fireballs a round, etc.

[Gurgeh]

...so if we had a plane with almost nonexistent gravity (i.e., space), it would actually still lift what would weigh five pounds in space--which is almost anything.
Gravity does not work that way. Neither does space. Objects in a weightless environment still have mass, and therefore inertia.

Personally, my favourite take on an "end of the world" spell is a little different. Take a lich or a Green Star Adept (or anything else that would allow a caster to survive indefinitely with no need for sustenance and no limit on their maximum age) and - since we're already at epic levels - take sufficient Improved Spell Capacity and Improved Metamagic to cast Persistent Time Stop. It's not core, true, and Persistent Spell in general is pretty cheesy. But think about it: you'll effectively be able to stop time forever.

Obviously, the best epic campaign ever would be one where the PCs have to race to stop an evil Green Star Adept from researching the necessary arcane details to do this.

[Veyr]

Gravity does not work that way. Neither does space. Objects in a weightless environment still have mass, and therefore inertia.
Correct... but you could interpret Mage Hand as working that way. I think that's what he was going for.

[Divide by Zero]

Cast an epic spell to animate the planet, and order it to destroy all life on the surface. Now you've achieved your goal and have your own personal attack planet.

[pegase]

Gravity does not work that way. Neither does space. Objects in a weightless environment still have mass, and therefore inertia.

I think that I presented a good argument by which we could extrapolate that mage hand affects objects by weight alone and not mass, and since weight is variable, this allows one to mage hand anything in a weightless environment.

Wouldn't a single poke in space effortlessly propel something even as large as a spaceship on another vector? It would of course push you the other way, but if you could "poke" with mage hand in space, you wouldn't be pushed the other way and you could still add another vector of travel for a sphere of diamond. Since you created the diamond, its fair to say that the sphere's vector and velocity matches yours exactly, so this addition of another vector of travel doesn't screw with anything already existing.

Of course, my physics is buggy. I'm no physicist.

[Zale]

http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx249/Zale13/warningsign.jpg

[Gurgeh]

Correct... but you could interpret Mage Hand as working that way. I think that's what he was going for.
I think it's more the case that none of the writers of the PHB knew much physics. The rules refer to Mage Hand being limited by "weight" and not "mass", but the abilities the spell grants are affected both by the object's weight (being able to move it up and down) and directly by its mass (being able to move it in any other direction). The problem you have is that mass is (basically) a static property of an object, while weight can change tremendously depending on the object's location. I'd say it's much more likely that they were using the colloquial definition of weight-as-a-synonym-for-mass, especially since the spell lets you "propel the object as far as 15 feet in any direction" as a move action, which would imply that it's assuming constant mass of whatever you're slinging around.

...on that note, has there ever been a reasonable attempt made to convert the d20 rules to use SI units?

EDIT:

Wouldn't a single poke in space effortlessly propel something even as large as a spaceship on another vector?
It would! However, the magnitude of the motion would be inversely proportional to the mass of the object. A single person (given leverage) could move a ten-thousand-ton battleship in a weightless environment; but not very quickly. You can test it yourself fairly easily; pick up a box of tissues and something dense of similar size - a brick, maybe - and try swinging each around in a horizontal arc (that way, the gravitational force remains near-constant for each). You'll find that you can move the tissues a lot faster than the brick!


For that reason, I'd say that the text in Mage Hand that refers to the "15 feet in any direction" as a move action pretty much confirms that it's targeting mass, not weight: it's obviously assuming that every object it could target is going to have basically the same mass.

[Jack_Simth]

This is probably a stupid question, but when they give measurements for a spell's volume of effect (such as major creation), is that said number the volume itself or the measurement of each dimension assuming a cube?
Variable. Some say X Cubic Feet (see Stone Shape for one example), others say X number of Y Foot Cubes (see Forbiddance for one example).

[OracleofWuffing]

For that reason, I'd say that the text in Mage Hand that refers to the "15 feet in any direction" as a move action pretty much confirms that it's targeting mass, not weight: it's obviously assuming that every object it could target is going to have basically the same mass.

I think it's pretty likely that none of the PHB writers intended healing drowns, recursive Gates, and Diplomacy, but that doesn't mean they wrote something else. Their lack of fact-checking is our gain. :smallbiggrin: Mind you, there aren't any rules for inertia outside of Bloodlines and Psionics, and neither of those instances really apply to the situation.

[Veyr]

...on that note, has there ever been a reasonable attempt made to convert the d20 rules to use SI units?
It's relatively rare to use non-length units, so you'd be mostly working with meters.

For the sake of keeping lengths in nice, neat numbers, I'd replace all instances with 5*x ft. (where x is any counting number) with 2*x m. It's not exact, but it's closer than 1*x m would be.

Actually, 1.5 m increments works out extremely closely, but I'm not convinced that's sufficiently un-ugly.

[pegase]

Healing drowns?

[Gurgeh]

By the letter of the rules, a character's HP is set to zero when they begin drowning - so if you've got a PC who's at -7 or whatever and you don't have the time or ability to stabilise them (but do have access to a large body of water), you can toss them into the water and BAM, you've bought them time.

Particularly cheesy applications include using this with conditions like the Delay Death spell and the Frenzied Berserker's frenzy that allow a character to drop below -9; if your battering-ram character gets a natural 1 on his save vs Disintegrate and finds himself on -50 or the like, all you need to do is immerse them in water and have them stop holding their breath.

Of course, while RAW may allow it, no DM worth a damn would let that sort of shenanigans work.

[pegase]

Of course, while RAW may allow it, no DM worth a damn would let that sort of shenanigans work.

My second DM would allow it, and then would use it against us later.

Ah, she was harsh. She was like, "LOL abuse all you want, don't mind if the enemy boss paragon gestalt epic caster monk abuses PaO."

[Squiggles]

Cast an epic spell to animate the planet, and order it to destroy all life on the surface. Now you've achieved your goal and have your own personal attack planet.

Ugh, how would you stat out a planet? :smallfrown:

[Divide by Zero]

Ugh, how would you stat out a planet? :smallfrown:

Shouldn't be too hard to extrapolate the animated object stats to a Colossal++++...+++ object.

[kardar233]

Get a Hulking Hurler to throw an asteroid at it.

Alternately, if you happen to have an infinite amount of magical power at your disposal, summon a Draeden. Then get out of the way. And don't instantaneously die from its fear effect.

[OracleofWuffing]

My second DM would allow it, and then would use it against us later.
Okay, here's what you need to do:

BIG WARNING: THE FOLLOWING USES SUCH SELECTIVE SILLY ADHERENCE TO RAW THAT IT LOOPS STRAIGHT BACK AROUND TO BECOME RAI. YOUR DM IS VERY LIKELY TO THROW THINGS AT YOU FOR THIS, OR AT THE VERY LEAST LAUGH AT YOU AND SAY, "There's not one part of this that is going to happen." Oracle of Wuffing is not responsible for anything that might result from following his advice, unless it results in something beneficial to him.

First, do not be standing on Earth for this.

Because you need the Earth, you have the Earth in your Spell Component Pouch. Drop your spell component pouch into a Bag of Holding. Creatures in a bag of holding begin to suffocate after 10 minutes. Oddly enough... Not having to breathe does not explicitly make you immune to this suffocation, so this applies to Constructs, Elementals, Undead, and creatures that breathe water. So, just wait for an hour, a day, a week, whatever makes you feel safe. And if you really, really want to be crazy with this, puncture your bag of holding. You have been warned.

Of course, the implication behind this is that every Spell Component Pouch contains Earth, so if there's another Wizard somewhere else, there's another Earth hanging about, but at the very least one Earth was wiped clean of all creatures, which I guess was the objecti- I've gone cross-eyed again. I think I need to lie down...

...In slightly more reasonable news, apparently, if you develop an epic spell to destroy Earth, your DM is supposed to tell you how to make a reasonable spell to do so if he or she turns your suggested spell down. If only you could add "The Earth" as a Material Component...

[NichG]

That just gave me a silly idea for a caster who makes a bunch of custom spells that do nothing. Why does he bother with the custom spells? Because the material components are parts of his living enemies. Sort of an reinterpretation of Scar from FMA.

[Gandariel]

hem, http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Ending_%283.5e_Epic_Spell%29

[ericgrau]

Water elemental warblade. Move onto land for a -4 penalty to attack rolls due to water mastery. Iron heart surge the earth away.

[Luckmann]

Shouldn't a permanent portal to the Negative Energy Plane act as a black hole, given time? Is there such a thing as a Negative Material Plane? What about a Positive Material Plane? Or would that be the Prime?

I'd stick a permanent portal to the Negative Energy Plane on the South Pole and a permanent portal to the Positive Energy Plane on the North Pole. Surely this must give rise to some kind of effect that will not only devastate the Earth by sucking in one end and blowing in the other, but also possibly maybe arguably split it apart due to the exchange of forces between the two. :smallyuk:


That's what I suggested.

GLOBAL WARMING
Evocation [Fire]
Spellcraft DC: 150
Components: V, S, Ritual, XP
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: 0 ft.
Area: 100-mile-radius emanation
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
To Develop: 900,000 gp; 18 days;
36,000 XP. Seed: energy (weather)
(DC 25). Factors: 50 times increase
in base area (+200 DC), permanent
duration (×5). Mitigating factors:
increase casting time by 9 minutes
(–18 DC), eleven additional casters
contributing 9th-level spell slots
(–187 DC).
You increase the temperature of the
region, drying up water and baking
the soil within a 100-mile-radius area.
10 minutes after the spell is cast, the
temperature band increases to warm
or by one step (see page 12), whichever
produces the hotter result. Open
water and moisture in soil and plants
evaporates, creating desert conditions
that last until global warming is dispelled.
If the region was ice-covered,
the snow and ice melt rapidly, which
might result in fl ooding.
Global warming counters and dispels
ice age (described in the Frostburn
supplement).
This is a ritual spell requiring eleven
other spellcasters, each of whom must
contribute an unused 9th-level spell
slot to the casting.
XP Cost: 5,000 XP.
Shouldn't that really be called "Local Warming"? :smalltongue:

[Kansaschaser]

1. Teleport to the surface of the moon.
2. Cast Wall of Iron several thousand times. You don't need the material component because you have Eschew Materials.
3. Cast Fabricate on the iron and the moon several thousand times to turn the moon into a Colossal++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++ Morning Star. This is possible because the moons core is made of solid iron.
4. Cast Greater Magic Weapon on this Morning Star, giving it a +5 bonus.
5. Attach a Greater Crystal of Adamant Weaponry on the Morning Star, giving it 10 more points of hardness.
6. Cast any number of weapon enhancing spells on the Morning Star, such as Flaming Weapon, Sonic Weapon, and Dolorous Blow.
7. Cast Animate Weapon on the Morning Star. The Morning Star is now a Colossal++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++ Animated Object. The weapon only stays animated while you concentrate and if you stay within 30 feet. Since you are a level 30 Wizard and you have Extraordinary Concentration, you can continue to concentrate on the spell as a move action.
8. If the DM Dictates that the Morning Star is too far away to strike the Earth, cast Overland Flight on the Morning Star. It can then start to get closer to it's intended target. If you cannot reach striking range of Earth on the first day, just continue to repeat this process until you can. The moon is only about 220,000 miles away. If you have to travel to get into striking distance, you may need to repeat steps 5, 6, and/or 7.
9. If you are close enough to strike the Earth, have the Morning Star strike the Earth until you break it apart. The Earth should have an AC of only 0 (-5 size, -5 Dex). Stone has a hardness of 8 and 15 hit points per inch of thickness. So to break through the crust (assuming an average thickness of 6 miles) you would need to do 5,702,400 damage.
10. Given time, you will most assuredly destroy the Earth.

[Ravens_cry]

Be a warforged. Cast disintegrate. Keep casting it. Again, and again, and again, and again to the power of again. It's slow, but it will destroy the world.

[Kansaschaser]

Be a warforged. Cast disintegrate. Keep casting it. Again, and again, and again, and again to the power of again. It's slow, but it will destroy the world.

That won't work. The Earth adds weight every day from meteorites striking the Earth. Some that don't make it through the atmosphere just turn into dust, but that still ends up setteling down and becoming part of the Earth.

At most, the Earth adds 78,000 tons of dust and rock are added to the Earch each year. That's about 427,390 pounds of dust and rock each day. Using all of your spells to cast Disintigrate each day may just be enough to keep the Earth from putting on weight, but it won't destroy the Earth.

Edit: Actually, I did some calculation and you are correct. One Disintigrate spell is enough to destroy 336,000 pounds of rock. So, multiple castings of Disintigrate should work....given time.

[Telonius]

For the "crack the planet in two" route - Dominate an Earth Elemental, and have him create a small cave for you right next to the earth's core. Gather several Rust Monsters, and give them rings of Greater Fire Resistance, and teleport them in there. The earth's core is primarily made up of molten metal (iron and nickel). 10 cubic feet of the core per rust monster per round will be destroyed.

[Hirax]

2. Cast Wall of Iron several thousand times. You don't need the material component because you have Eschew Materials.


Wall of iron has a 50GP component. Wall of stone would work fine.

[Zale]

Swap the minds of the wizard and Belkar in a way that allows Belkar to use magic.

Wait four hours.

[Kansaschaser]

Wall of iron has a 50GP component. Wall of stone would work fine.

If you are an epic spellcaster, you can also take Ignore Material Component, then you don't need the 50 gold material component.

[Wings of Peace]

True Creation: Box of electrons with no space in between them.

[Tvtyrant]

True Creation: Box of electrons with no space in between them.

There are no electrons in D&D, so this would not work.

Go to center of planet and cast Reverse Gravity. The resulting earthquake should do wonders.

[Hirax]

If you are an epic spellcaster, you can also take Ignore Material Component, then you don't need the 50 gold material component.

Ah ha, perfect. This also brings to mind another idea, you could simply keep making the moon more massive. Its increased size/gravity would bring it closer to earth's gravity until they eventually collided.

edit: and if you don't want to go to the moon yourself, send a construct to the moon through which you can cast spells.

[Ravens_cry]

Edit: Actually, I did some calculation and you are correct. One Disintigrate spell is enough to destroy 336,000 pounds of rock. So, multiple castings of Disintigrate should work....given time.
Well, yes, that's why the first step was "Be a warforged." Immortality has its advantages when you want to destroy the world and not just kill every other lifeform on it. Any hack can do that.:smallamused:

[sapmarten]

True Creation: Box of electrons with no space in between them.

You'll have to explain this to me.

[Kansaschaser]

Well, yes, that's why the first step was "Be a warforged." Immortality has its advantages when you want to destroy the world and not just kill every other lifeform on it. Any hack can do that.:smallamused:

The only downside to this "over time" stuff is that if people (and other spellcaster) start to notice that the world is getting lighter, people might just start using Walls of Stone, Walls of Iron, Walls of Salt, and other spells that create minerals to add to the Earth.

In fact, most Wizards that I play end up creating their own towers and castles from Walls of Stone and Iron. Then, when I get bored with that structure, I move on to create more. I normally give my old houses to traveling companions. I even went so far as to create an epic level spell that created a town in one hour.

If other spellcasters do the same, then you may be like Sisyphus. Pushing the boulder up the hill, only to have it fall back down and start again.

[Wings of Peace]

You'll have to explain this to me.

Read the post by lordhenry4000. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173078)


There are no electrons in D&D, so this would not work.


They exist it's just poor sportsmanship if you try to apply magic to them.

[Doc Roc]

Gravity is a funny thing. So are ring gates.

Alternatively, planar breaches in the right place can do a lot of damage.

[OracleofWuffing]

Well, from the perspective of "take out chunks of land for the rest of your eternal life," there is an honorable merit to the spell Rockburst from Shining South. It does 1d4+CL damage to all creatures in a 20 foot burst... However, the big thing here is that it requires a stone object with a volume of at least 8 cubic feet to cast, which is exploded. There have been discussions about using significantly larger objects for this purpose elsewhere on this forum (not for the purposes of increasing damage), though it depends on how well built your campaign world is as to how successful it would be. Some would say you can take out an entire mountain range with it, others a tectonic plate, still others would say the entire solid part of a planet, and yet others would say you just take out the amount of rock you have line of sight to.

[Veyr]

Ring Gates are actually explicitly mentioned in that "destroy the earth" thing, in the form of Einstein-Rosen bridges (wormholes). Stick one Ring Gate in the center of the Earth, and the other... anywhere, really, aside perhaps from within the center of the Earth somewhere else, and watch the Earth get converted to paste, or blown up, depending on where you put the other Ring Gate (or more specifically, the local pressure at the location of the other Ring Gate).

This assume the Ring Gate itself can withstand pressures sufficient to destroy a planet, though. Might be dubious there.

[NNescio]

Ah ha, perfect. This also brings to mind another idea, you could simply keep making the moon more massive. Its increased size/gravity would bring it closer to earth's gravity until they eventually collided.

edit: and if you don't want to go to the moon yourself, send a construct to the moon through which you can cast spells.

Actually... that wouldn't have a noticeable effect on the moon's orbit. (http://www.braeunig.us/space/orbmech.htm#motions) One would have to consider the centripetal force (m*v2/r), and the lunar mass will be on both ends of the equation and hence cancel each other out. (http://www.astronomynotes.com/gravappl/s8.htm)

Of course, this assumes that the mass of the moon is negligible compared to the mass of the earth. If you managed to increase the mass of the moon significantly, say, by an order of a magnitude, then the orbital mechanics will change significantly, but the moon will still not crash into the earth. The tidal effects are going to be a pain though.

[Jack_Simth]

Actually... that wouldn't have a noticeable effect on the moon's orbit. (http://www.braeunig.us/space/orbmech.htm#motions) One would have to consider the centripetal force (m*v2/r), and the lunar mass will be on both ends of the equation and hence cancel each other out. (http://www.astronomynotes.com/gravappl/s8.htm)

Of course, this assumes that the mass of the moon is negligible compared to the mass of the earth. If you managed to increase the mass of the moon significantly, say, by an order of a magnitude, then the orbital mechanics will change significantly, but the moon will still not crash into the earth. The tidal effects are going to be a pain though.
Don't forget, though, that you're also changing the radius of the moon while you're at it. All those Walls of Stone / Iron don't exactly have 0 volume, you know.

Hmm... at 30th, it shouldn't be hard to get Innate Spell (Wall of Stone). Requires a few non-Epic feats, four iterations of Improved Spell Capacity (to get 13th level spell slots), plus Innate Spell. That'll speed up how much mass you add to the moon, as your only per-day limit is your action limit.

[NNescio]

Don't forget, though, that you're also changing the radius of the moon while you're at it. All those Walls of Stone / Iron don't exactly have 0 volume, you know.

Hmm... at 30th, it shouldn't be hard to get Innate Spell (Wall of Stone). Requires a few non-Epic feats, four iterations of Improved Spell Capacity (to get 13th level spell slots), plus Innate Spell. That'll speed up how much mass you add to the moon, as your only per-day limit is your action limit.

Why would the radius of the moon matter? :smallconfused: It's not like the centre of mass is going anywhere.

(Edit: Note that the 'r's in the formulae I quoted refer to "orbital radii" instead.)

If you are trying to get them to touch each other...

Mass of the Moon ≈ 1/81 the mass of Earth.
Distance from Moon to Earth: 356,400 km ~ 406,700 km
Mean radius of the Moon: 1,737.1 km
Mean radius of the Earth: 6,371.0 km

I suppose you can apply the added mass in a rather nonuniform manner to actually 'move' the centre of mass appreciably, but I'm not sure how exactly are you supposed to do so, and you'll probably end up with a space tether instead.

Easier way is to slow down the moon. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_decay) It'll crash eventually.

[Kansaschaser]

Easier way is to slow down the moon. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_decay) It'll crash eventually.

Yeah, that's possible, but kind of boring. It can also take a long time. Like watching paint dry.

Got anything that's faster? I like my suggestion of turning the moon into a mace and have it pummel the earth like a pinata.

[Zale]

Make Belkar a wizard? :belkar:

[Kansaschaser]

I know the original poster said you were a level 30 Wizard. What if you were a level 30 Druid or a level 30 Cleric? Could you still destroy the Earth?

[Zale]

A level 30 Druid could simply awaken entire forests and unleash them on the poor, poor world.

Awaken, Mass. It can target one creature or tree per three levels. That's ten at level 30. That, plus the Repeat Spell metamagic could net you twenty intelligent trees a day.

[Chess435]

Innate spell will let you do it at will, giving you the ability to unleash entire forests upon the unsuspecting populace.

By the way, has anyone else noticed the abundant amount of juicy plot hooks in this thread?

[Divide by Zero]

Clerics and druids both get Epic Spellcasting (and more of it per day, if they boost both Knowledge skills), so they can do pretty much everything the wizard does.