Efreet Abuse in Mythology

[Urpriest]

Much has been written about the fact that one can get Wishes, a 9th level spell, by binding an Efreet with a lower level spell (or even a reasonably easily acquired item, see Candle of Invocation). Most people concentrate on the balance implications of this, with a few proposing economic counters to the tactic's utility (namely, that the Efreet would start each day by selling its wishes to someone powerful, making them unavailable for PCs). However, D&D doesn't work on economic rules (see: anything Elminister does ever). Indeed, it wasn't even designed with much in the way of balance in mind, as is often pointed out. Instead it works on narrative rules.

With that in mind, I'd like to know what judgement narrative rules put on Efreet abuse. To narrow things down to a more manageable question, I want to know the following:

I know there are myths where someone captures a Genie and it gives them three wishes. And I know there are myths where someone summons and enslaves a genie. Are there any myths where someone summons and enslaves a genie in order to get at its wishes? How does that work out?

[Zale]

The Genie/Efreet attempts to undermine whatever is wished for.

OR:

The people wish for the wrong things or make silly wishes.

[Cespenar]

This may be against the Geneva Conventions, but I'm going to link to TvTropes.

Here it is. I'm doing this. Here it comes.

Boom. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThreeWishes)

[AmberVael]

The people wish for the wrong things or make silly wishes.

As possibly a subpoint of this, there is the idea that even if you get what you want, it can turn out to be really horrible to have.

I should note that trying to twist wishes on PCs may not end well, however.
They tend to be of the wrong mentality... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0y5dHmVRIc)

[Popertop]

This may be against the Geneva Conventions, but I'm going to link to TvTropes.

Here it is. I'm doing this. Here it comes.

Boom. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThreeWishes)

aaaaaaand goodbye any progress I was going to make today

[Cespenar]

Also to add, as I just read it in the link I gave myself, a tale from Planescape: Torment:


An elderly man was sitting alone on a dark path. He wasn't certain of which direction to go, and he'd forgotten both where he was traveling to and who he was. He'd sat down for a moment to rest his weary legs, and suddenly looked up to see an elderly woman before him. She grinned toothlessly and with a cackle, spoke: "Now your *third* wish. What will it be?"
"Third wish?" The man was baffled. "How can it be a third wish if I haven't had a first and second wish?"
"You've had two wishes already," the hag said, "but your second wish was for me to return everything to the way it was before you had made your first wish. That's why you remember nothing; because everything is the way it was before you made any wishes." She cackled at the poor man. "So it is that you have one wish left."
"All right," he said, "I don't believe this, but there's no harm in wishing. I wish to know who I am."
"Funny," said the old woman as she granted his wish and disappeared forever. "That was your first wish."

[Zale]

..And Popertop fails his will save.


You could secretly make a diplomacy check. If they succeed, the spell goes along as planned. If they fail.. :smallamused:

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

..And Popertop fails his will save.

It is a shame that people have to make will saves for TvTropes. I somehow obtained immunity to compulsion effects because I never click the links.

[Urpriest]

Thanks for the examples, but I'm well aware of wish-twisting genies. However, all of the examples I know of involve someone tricking the genie, saving the genie, getting an item that contains the genie, etc...none involve whipping out a pentagram and summoning the thing. What I'm looking for is someone who actually traps a genie with magic and demands wishes from it that way.

[Curious]

Thanks for the examples, but I'm well aware of wish-twisting genies. However, all of the examples I know of involve someone tricking the genie, saving the genie, getting an item that contains the genie, etc...none involve whipping out a pentagram and summoning the thing. What I'm looking for is someone who actually traps a genie with magic and demands wishes from it that way.

I believe the Qadiran kings in the Pathfinder campaign setting do something along those lines, but can't pull up any specific examples.

[Analytica]

Some mythical renditions of King Solomon, maybe? Proceed to goetia, theurgy and so forth. Bind spirits, have them build you a castle and mine diamonds for you...

None of this would even be a balance problem if the D&D Wish spell worked like the Miracle spell, really.

[Urpriest]

Some mythical renditions of King Solomon, maybe? Proceed to goetia, theurgy and so forth. Bind spirits, have them build you a castle and mine diamonds for you...

None of this would even be a balance problem if the D&D Wish spell worked like the Miracle spell, really.

Yeah, Solomon was what I was going for. I'm not too well-versed in Solomon's stories, and I had the impression that he mostly summoned genies to help him mine/build stuff. I wasn't aware of whether he had actually demanded wishes from the genies in the "I have trapped you now grant me three wishes" way. That's why I made the thread, trying to see if the whole three wishes scheme was invoked in those sorts of stories.

[Analytica]

In some sense, the ability of the genie to grant a wish could be seen as a shorthand for the creature actually working to realize your wish. I.e. you want X, the genie tries to get you X. In a metaphysical sense, this would also limit the range of wishes to effects that a creature of that magnitude could realize, if it would spend time and effort on your behalf.

[Big Fau]

It is a shame that people have to make will saves for TvTropes. I somehow obtained immunity to compulsion effects because I never click the links.

I just built up a resistance by reading most of the commonly linked tropes. No point in going to the site if I all ready know what the trope is.

Now when people start linking books I haven't read...

[Aidan305]

Personally, I'd be worried not about the wish going wrong (which it almost certainly would. The key is to have it go wrong in a way that effects the players and plot here. See Castle in the Sky by Diana Wynn Jones for a good example of this done well.)

The thing I'd be worried about is the irate efreet left over once the wish has been granted. After all, it's just been summoned here to the mortal realm against its will and forced to grant wishes for the amusement of petty humans. It's not going to be happy, and an unhappy djinn is a dead party.

There's a reason the last wish is always for the efreet to return to its imprisonment, doing no harm in the process.

[Popertop]

..And Popertop fails his will save.

Y'know, that's been happening really frequently lately.

There must be some penalties I'm not accounting for.

[Hirax]

The Genie/Efreet attempts to undermine whatever is wished for.

OR:

The people wish for the wrong things or make silly wishes.

These have always been my experiences.

[JonestheSpy]

Also to add, as I just read it in the link I gave myself, a tale from Planescape: Torment:



An elderly man was sitting alone on a dark path. He wasn't certain of which direction to go, and he'd forgotten both where he was traveling to and who he was. He'd sat down for a moment to rest his weary legs, and suddenly looked up to see an elderly woman before him. She grinned toothlessly and with a cackle, spoke: "Now your *third* wish. What will it be?"
"Third wish?" The man was baffled. "How can it be a third wish if I haven't had a first and second wish?"
"You've had two wishes already," the hag said, "but your second wish was for me to return everything to the way it was before you had made your first wish. That's why you remember nothing; because everything is the way it was before you made any wishes." She cackled at the poor man. "So it is that you have one wish left."
"All right," he said, "I don't believe this, but there's no harm in wishing. I wish to know who I am."
"Funny," said the old woman as she granted his wish and disappeared forever. "That was your first wish."



And that, boys and girls, is why Planescape:Torment is the best video game evar.