Size categories?

[onthetown]

Specifically Large size.

I've looked through all of my 3.5 and Pathfinder books, and I can't find what the Large size category entails. All I know is that it's around 8 feet tall, but what bonuses does it give? What penalties?

I'm homebrewing something and could use the info. Which makes me think this might possibly go in Homebrew... I don't know.

Anyway. Large size. Even just pointing me toward a page in a book would be helpful.

[Yuki Akuma]

Large size entails getting a -1 penalty on AC and attack rolls, -4 on Hide skill checks, +4 on grapple checks, taking up a 10 by 10 foot square, and having a reach of 10 feet (usually).

If you increase a monster from Medium to Large they get +8 Strength, -2 Dex, +4 Con and +3 natural armour, but that's not intrinsic to being Large - just what happens when upgrading monsters.

[Greenish]

Big and Little Creatures in Combat. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm#bigandLittleCreatu resInCombat)

[FMArthur]

Large size entails getting a -1 penalty on AC and attack rolls, -4 on Hide skill checks, +4 on grapple checks, taking up a 10 by 10 foot square, and having a reach of 10 feet (usually).

If you increase a monster from Medium to Large they get +8 Strength, -2 Dex, +4 Con and +3 natural armour, but that's not intrinsic to being Large - just what happens when upgrading monsters.

Note that those benefits are for DMs increasing a monster's size via their Hit Dice advancement in their entry, and are not part of any normal player spells or effects that increase one's size, even the hit dice advancement of an Animal Companion. There are a couple poorly-made templates from Dragon that include such benefits (half-ogre and half-minotaur), but it's generally seen as a mistake and an unbalancing one at that; otherwise those size benefits are wholly irrelevant to a player.

[onthetown]

Large size entails getting a -1 penalty on AC and attack rolls, -4 on Hide skill checks, +4 on grapple checks, taking up a 10 by 10 foot square, and having a reach of 10 feet (usually).


No STR or other ability bonuses/penalties?

And why -1 on attack rolls?

[Yuki Akuma]

No. No ability bonuses or penalties. Because... that's not how size categories work.

They get a -1 on attack rolls for the same reason they get a -1 on AC, and for the same reason Small creatures get a +1 to attacks and AC.

[tyckspoon]

No STR or other ability bonuses/penalties?

And why -1 on attack rolls?

Because that's what it says on the chart. It's in this section- Combat- Movement, Position, and Distance. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm) Subheader 'Big and Little Creatures'. I have no idea what physical book page, because I pretty much only use the hyperlinked SRD these days, but that's your reference. Stat modifiers are often applied along with larger size- for example, Strength and Natural Armor boosts are often given to counter the AC and attack bonus penalty- but they aren't an inherent part of being Large.

[onthetown]

Awesome. Thanks!

[FMArthur]

While it initially looks 'wrong' that a man Expanded to Huge size has, on the statblock, not much more strength than he had as Medium, most areas that would reflect such an increase in physical might actually do get separate benefits from size: weapon dice improvements, bonuses to Trip, Grapple, Bull Rush, Disarm and Sunder, carrying capacity, and other things. It's not elegant, but works out reasonably well.

[jmelesky]

You mentioned Pathfinder, so i'll mention that they changed things slightly in PF. It all works more or less the same, except when it comes to combat maneuvers. They removed the "Grapple Modifier" for size, and instead use the base "Size Modifier" for all maneuver checks (grapple, trip, bull rush, etc). It should be reflected in the CMB and CMD of any published statblocks, but if you're doing it yourself you should know that bit.

[onthetown]

You mentioned Pathfinder, so i'll mention that they changed things slightly in PF. It all works more or less the same, except when it comes to combat maneuvers. They removed the "Grapple Modifier" for size, and instead use the base "Size Modifier" for all maneuver checks (grapple, trip, bull rush, etc). It should be reflected in the CMB and CMD of any published statblocks, but if you're doing it yourself you should know that bit.

So instead of a +4 to grapple, it would be a +4 to CMB and CMD? I forgot about that part...

[Greenish]

So instead of a +4 to grapple, it would be a +4 to CMB and CMD?No, only +1. PF reduced the effect of size in this stuff.

[jmelesky]

So instead of a +4 to grapple, it would be a +4 to CMB and CMD? I forgot about that part...

Instead of +4 (the old "grapple modifier") to grapple, it's +1 (the "size modifier") to CMB and CMD. Sorry for the poor wording.