Cleric alignment shift

[amisth]

I'm in the middle of an ongoing campaign right now and I'm playing a Lawful Good cleric who never really left the village he grew up in until the adventure started. I'm pretty sure he's going to have an alignment shift happen to him soon because he's having to kill lots of sentient beings in order to survive which goes way against his sense. I've already decided that pretty soon he's going to eventually do something that is going to completely and deliberately break his code and make him lose his powers and force him to swear allegiance to another deity.

My question is, how does my character get his new powers once he looses his old ones? Do I have to pick new Domains as well? I found the descriptions of Ex-Clerics in the players handbook unhelpful in describing how to move on/ get your powers back.

[Flame of Anor]

Get your DM to houserule it.

[Big Fau]

PH2 covers this issue.


DO keep in mind that even WotC recognizes LG Clerics that go adventuring. Seeing as the creed of an adventurer is "Kill it, loot it, keep moving", it seems fairly clear that only Exalted Clerics would have qualms with having to kill sentient beings to survive.


LG Clerics in DnD are not pacifists who value all life equally: They recognize that some people are on one side of the Moral Event Horizon or the other.

[amisth]

PH2 covers this issue.


DO keep in mind that even WotC recognizes LG Clerics that go adventuring. Seeing as the creed of an adventurer is "Kill it, loot it, keep moving", it seems fairly clear that only Exalted Clerics would have qualms with having to kill sentient beings to survive.


LG Clerics in DnD are not pacifists who value all life equally: They recognize that some people are on one side of the Moral Event Horizon or the other.

Okay I'll check out PHII.

I didn't think that an LG alignment necessitated my characters qualms with killing at all, my character just happen to have those qualms.

[Big Fau]

Okay I'll check out PHII.

I didn't think that an LG alignment necessitated my characters qualms with killing at all, my character just happen to have those qualms.

Have you considered using Nonlethal damage at all? It's a -4 penalty, but that's easily mitigated. There are also nonlethal weapons in the BoED, and there's the Merciful quality in the DMG (+1d6 damage, but all damage you do is nonlethal).


Oh, and FYI: You can go from LG to LN or NG and still worship the same LG deity. If your Deity is NG, you can shift all the way to CG (which has less qualms about killing in self-defense) without losing anything.

Only Favored Souls have to match their deity's alignment, IIRC.

[amisth]

Have you considered using Nonlethal damage at all? It's a -4 penalty, but that's easily mitigated. There are also nonlethal weapons in the BoED, and there's the Merciful quality in the DMG (+1d6 damage, but all damage you do is nonlethal).

Using non lethal damage most of the time would probably get me killed in this campaign. Although I do try.


Oh, and FYI: You can go from LG to LN or NG and still worship the same LG deity. If your Deity is NG, you can shift all the way to CG (which has less qualms about killing in self-defense) without losing anything.

I am aware of this. It might be a while before I stop being either L or G but the way things are going it's looking like that's going to happen.

[Big Fau]

Using non lethal damage most of the time would probably get me killed in this campaign. Although I do try.

I am aware of this. It might be a while before I stop being either L or G but the way things are going it's looking like that's going to happen.

If you think your tactics will get you killed, then you should switch to better ones. How many buff spells do you prepare each day?


As for the alignment itself: Once you stop being Good-aligned, you have no moral qualms with killing in self-defense. It isn't until you start actively killing without looking for an alternative that you start shifting to Evil.

Violating your personal code shifts you slowly from Lawful to Chaotic, depending on the actions that violate your code. Self defense like what you are describing is perfectly within acceptable morals for NG or CG characters (showing respect for those you kill would keep it mostly Lawful too, possibly allowing you to retain your alignment completely).

For ease of discussion, what deity does your Cleric worship? If you just worship an ideal, then the alignment shift would be out of your hands unless you were actively committing murder.

[Curmudgeon]

As for the alignment itself: Once you stop being Good-aligned, you have no moral qualms with killing in self-defense. It isn't until you start actively killing without looking for an alternative that you start shifting to Evil.
All it takes is a couple of planned ambushes to make that shift, though, so it's pretty likely to happen with common tactical choices.

[Big Fau]

All it takes is a couple of planned ambushes to make that shift, though, so it's pretty likely to happen with common tactical choices.

Planned ambushes with the intent to murder without justification (it's understandable to ambush and murder a Hezrou, but not some passing merchant).

[Curmudgeon]

Racial profiling is usually all the justification that's needed. :smallsigh:

[Big Fau]

Racial profiling is usually all the justification that's needed. :smallsigh:

That's some serious BS on the DM's part though. Remember that the player himself is the one thinking an alignment shift is in order, and we have no input from the DM so we can't judge if that level of BS is in effect.

[amisth]

If you think your tactics will get you killed, then you should switch to better ones. How many buff spells do you prepare each day?


I can't use very many, we're still level 1. I understand that I wouldn't have to necessarily shift my alignment, I'm just doing it as a roleplaying thing and I merely wanted to know how to go about it/what would happen.

[Reficule]

You're not gonna shift alignments by killing stuff unless you start murdering innocents. Lawful Good is not Exalted Good, LG's arent pacifists. If your character himself is a pacifist, well... your not a pacifist so you cant really claim to be violating your personal code. And if he is a pacifist, either decide self-defense doesnt count and leave it at that http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TechnicalPacifist or stop being a pacifist.

[Big Fau]

I can't use very many, we're still level 1. I understand that I wouldn't have to necessarily shift my alignment, I'm just doing it as a roleplaying thing and I merely wanted to know how to go about it/what would happen.


How many spell slots do you have each day? Even if you have only 3+Domain slots, you can prepare any of the following spells to help your party:

Bless (PHB)
Command (PHB)
Divine Favor (PHB)
Entropic Shield (PHB)
Protection from Evil/Good/Chaos/Law (PHB)
Sanctuary (PHB)
Shield of Faith (PHB)
Blessed Aim (SC)
Conviction (SC)
Ebon Eyes (SC)
Faith Healing (SC)
Omen of Peril (SC)
Resurgence (SC)
Lesser Vigor (SC)


Three castings of Bless/Blessed Aim and a casting of Sanctuary are great choices at 1st level.

[Rejakor]

Killing in self-defense or a desperate situation won't cause a alignment shift unless you're Exalted.

Your character can totally have a mental breakdown about killing without his alignment shifting from LG at all.