Epic Spell Backlash Negation

[sapmarten]

What's keeping me from doing this?

i. Genesis, mage's magnificent mansion, rope trick, etc.
ii. Astral projection.
iii. Develop epic spell with maximum backlash. Since it has an upper bound relevant to your HD, you can abuse PaO and awaken to have NI backlash for a -NI modifier to the spellcraft DC.
iv. Cast spell w/ projection. Projection dies.
v. You're still alive in your small extradimensional plane.
vi. LOLOLOLOL!


-----Edit-----

Well, to be fair, chain gating solars for NI 9th level spell slots for -NI DC modifier to spell works too. But that requires that you somehow convince all the solars to stay with you and help you cast (or, at least convince the first solar to convince the second, the third, so on and so forth). While doing this may be easy for anyone with ranks in diplomacy, I don't see how it would be so simple without them.

On that note, is it possible to just diplomacy things you gate in that you can't control?

[Yuki Akuma]

Your DM. Your DM is keeping you from doing this.

[sapmarten]

Your DM. Your DM is keeping you from doing this.

That bastard! She's jealous of my power, of my potential!

[Geigan]

Epic spells were pretty much made to be abused. Getting infinite mitigation is typically pretty easy, but I wouldn't hold my breath for the chance that you'll ever get to use it since most people play in non-epic levels.

[sapmarten]

So what's the easiest infinite mitigation technique?

[Geigan]

Chain gate as many solars as needed and use the ritual mechanics involving supporting casters of the spell.

[Urpriest]

So what's the easiest infinite mitigation technique?

You don't chain-Gate the Solars, you use an epic spell to summon them indefinitely. This means they have to obey you, so they contribute slots.

[Geigan]

You don't chain-Gate the Solars, you use an epic spell to summon them indefinitely. This means they have to obey you, so they contribute slots.

That too. Of course most DMs would not allow this sort of screwing around with powerful beings from the celestial planes.

[sapmarten]

Well, epic summoning solars I understand, but how would chain-gating solars work? Even if you're a level 30 wizard, and you have command of said solars for 30 rounds (or, 3 minutes), that's not enough time to actually develop most spells, much less cast them. And what's the likelihood that wizards are good at diplomacy?

[Quietus]

Well, epic summoning solars I understand, but how would chain-gating solars work? Even if you're a level 30 wizard, and you have command of said solars for 30 rounds (or, 3 minutes), that's not enough time to actually develop most spells, much less cast them. And what's the likelihood that wizards are good at diplomacy?

You can add a multiplier to the DC in order to make the duration permanent. Effectively, every day you bind more solars to you permanently, who give you more spell slots, so you can make higher DCs and bind more solars each casting. Eventually you cast Awaken on the planet.

[Urpriest]

You can add a multiplier to the DC in order to make the duration permanent. Effectively, every day you bind more solars to you permanently, who give you more spell slots, so you can make higher DCs and bind more solars each casting. Eventually you cast Awaken on the planet.

He's asking about using Gate, not Epic Spells.

[olentu]

Hmm as I recall the DC for the epic spell sets the cost to create, time it takes, and XP cost. Additionally if I remember correctly a DC of 0 sets these to zero as they are are some multiple of the DC. So presumably one could just mitigate the DC to 0 but then again I have not played around with epic spells in a long time.

Or alternatively make the spell ahead of time.

[blazingshadow]

gate a solar take a few feathers from his wings then simulacrum an infinite number of them. now you have nigh infinite wishes and followers for your epic spells

[tyckspoon]

He's asking about using Gate, not Epic Spells.

I'd do it with Greater Planar Binding, actually- Planetars are only 14 HD but still have 9th-level casting. Call a Planetar, get it to agree to come back and supply a spell slot at a designated time and place (Plane Shift+Wind Walk gets them to the spot). Repeat as necessary. Once you've cast your spell, be nice to your workforce and open a Gate for them all to go home. Maybe set a new place and time for the next casting, because your enemies probably noticed 50 Planetars converging on your location, which means it's time to be somewhere else.

[erikun]

Here you go. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=791074&postcount=9) I think that a 11 quintillion DC will be enough for just about anything you'd want to do. (It was for casting an epic spell to animate the entire planet, if you are curious.)

[Divide by Zero]

Hmm as I recall the DC for the epic spell sets the cost to create, time it takes, and XP cost. Additionally if I remember correctly a DC of 0 sets these to zero as they are are some multiple of the DC. So presumably one could just mitigate the DC to 0 but then again I have not played around with epic spells in a long time.

Or alternatively make the spell ahead of time.

That's correct. Short version: you call 1 solar planetar (fewer HD and still gets 9th level slots, I don't know why you'd use solars) at a time until you have enough for a DC 0 epic spell to call 2 at a time. Repeat the process for exponential growth until you have enough mitigation for whatever you need.

[Alleran]

Hmm as I recall the DC for the epic spell sets the cost to create, time it takes, and XP cost. Additionally if I remember correctly a DC of 0 sets these to zero as they are are some multiple of the DC. So presumably one could just mitigate the DC to 0 but then again I have not played around with epic spells in a long time.
Interestingly, I seem to remember a book that introduced a few new Epic spell seeds, and actually had the cost of the spell, research time and so on calculated before mitigation was applied, so you couldn't take advantage of just reducing it to zero.

[Divide by Zero]

Interestingly, I seem to remember a book that introduced a few new Epic spell seeds, and actually had the cost of the spell, research time and so on calculated before mitigation was applied, so you couldn't take advantage of just reducing it to zero.

What book was that? Because the SRD rules are pretty clear on it:


Resource Cost

The development of an epic spell uses up raw materials costing a number of gold pieces equal to 9,000 × the final Spellcraft DC of the epic spell being developed.

Development Time

Developing an epic spell takes one day for each 50,000 gp in resources required to develop the spell, rounded up to whole days.

XP Cost

To develop an epic spell, a character must spend 1/25 of its resource price in experience points.
Emphasis mine.

[olentu]

What book was that? Because the SRD rules are pretty clear on it:


Emphasis mine.

The only other book with epic seeds that I can recall is lost empires of faerun so perhaps there is the book he was thinking of.

[sapmarten]

That book doesn't say much on this issue, but I might not be reading into it.

[Alleran]

That book doesn't say much on this issue, but I might not be reading into it.
IIRC, it went through an example of how to use the epic spell seeds (using the mythal one, specifically). However, they applied the XP cost, GP cost and research time (I don't remember all of it, but the GP cost was somewhere between 2.5 and 3 million) before applying mitigation to bring it down to around a DC 31 to cast.

[olentu]

IIRC, it went through an example of how to use the epic spell seeds (using the mythal one, specifically). However, they applied the XP cost, GP cost and research time (I don't remember all of it, but the GP cost was somewhere between 2.5 and 3 million) before applying mitigation to bring it down to around a DC 31 to cast.

Oh that is just an example and has no weight to go against the rules. Now if there was some non example text that might be a different matter but since I am going off memory I can not say there is or there is not.

[Quietus]

He's asking about using Gate, not Epic Spells.

You're entirely correct. I don't know how I missed that.

In that case : Chain-gating solars means casting Gate, asking for a Solar, and using the limited time summon option to force it to obey you. Then give it an order such as "Cast Gate, summon another Solar, with instructions for it to obey me as though I were its summoner" or something to that effect. Continue ad nauseum until you have an arbitrary number of Solars all within a single turn, because talking is a free action.

Also works with Titans.