Will the gate guards help?

[Flame of Anor]

If they noticed that Elan was being abducted rather than...transported with style...then they already know that he's Tarquin's son and that he wanted to "tell Durkon the Linear Guild is attacking". If they reported to Tarquin, he could seriously mess up Nale's plans.

[MoonCat]

Possibly. But if you suddenly see fellow guard snatch up a the son of the General, while growing wings and with glowing red eyes after hearing him talk about an attack, and your only comment is that you didn't know your fellow guard could fly, I really don't think they're the sharpest knife in the drawer.

[Dr.Epic]

Two things: first, I know this is nitpicking, but when you use the word "gate" in the oots section of the forum, my mind immediately goes to something else before I even click the thread and I was kind of mislead.

Second, I'm not even sure they'll have enough time to reach Tarquin, though Nale is a bit of a Bond villain so he might have a slow elaborate means to finish Elan off giving them a ton of time.

[Flame of Anor]

Possibly. But if you suddenly see fellow guard snatch up a the son of the General, while growing wings and with glowing red eyes after hearing him talk about an attack, and your only comment is that you didn't know your fellow guard could fly, I really don't think they're the sharpest knife in the drawer.

That could be right; on the other hand, it could just be a joke. I doubt Tarquin would hire idiots as palace guards if he could help it.

[MoonCat]

Second, I'm not even sure they'll have enough time to reach Tarquin, though Nale is a bit of a Bond villain so he might have a slow elaborate means to finish Elan off giving them a ton of time.

The scary thing is that he knows it, so he can act against it. Remember last time? When he was careful to gloat over his plot to the bathroom mirror as he shaved, so as not to feel compelled to do so at the wrong time? Nale is smarter than he seems.

[ORione]

The scary thing is that he knows it, so he can act against it. Remember last time? When he was careful to gloat over his plot to the bathroom mirror as he shaved, so as not to feel compelled to do so at the wrong time? Nale is smarter than he seems.

True that. He's Tarquin's son, too.

[NerfTW]

If they noticed that Elan was being abducted rather than...transported with style...then they already know that he's Tarquin's son and that he wanted to "tell Durkon the Linear Guild is attacking". If they reported to Tarquin, he could seriously mess up Nale's plans.

I think the line about "I didn't know Dave could fly" was pretty obvious that they think he's just being taken into the palace, not abducted. Even if it wasn't, the guards would be so low level that even V could defeat them in melee, let alone a level 15+ Succubus and Fighter/Rogue/Sorceror.

Also:


Two things: first, I know this is nitpicking, but when you use the word "gate" in the oots section of the forum, my mind immediately goes to something else before I even click the thread and I was kind of mislead.

You're right. That is nitpicking.

[TriForce]

ASSUMING this isnt all part of some plan nale and tarquin made together ( wich i believe to be the case)
the guard dont seem to be bothered at all by the fact that their colleage just grew wings. id say you could have a epic battle there without them even trying to look

[Tass]

I think the line about "I didn't know Dave could fly" was pretty obvious that they think he's just being taken into the palace, not abducted. Even if it wasn't, the guards would be so low level that even V could defeat them in melee, let alone a level 15+ Succubus and Fighter/Rogue/Sorceror.


If they reported to Tarquin, he could seriously mess up Nale's plans.

Low level matters little.

I think they may actually be to lawful though. As in "orders are to guard gate and ask for papers, not gather intelligence, no one is paying us to think". Come on, they asked for entry papers from Tarquins son.

[Ancalagon]

They could think "Some dave with wings and glowing eyes took away Tarquin's son. We better tell someone or we get tortured to death in case case it was not right."
That is how military work: Telling your superious frees you from blame and makes it his problems - and the lower you are in rank, the better it works. It's how it is supposed to be.

And I really doubt they are gateguards without any ability to contact their superiour or simply yell for another guard. They'd be a crappy guardpost if that was the case.

I'm even going as far as claiming it'd be a plothole if they did not notify "someone". If that someone (or the chief of the that someone) does not want to disturb Tarquin right now during the festival is a different matter - but given he also has to face torture & death if "things are not in order", I highly doubt that.
So I actually go all the way and would consider it a plothole if Tarquin did not learn about Elan's abduction from the chain that starts with the gateguards here.

It also would be typical of and fitting for Nale: His plans unravel because he thought some measly guard was not important to consider.

[Flame of Anor]

I'm even going as far as claiming it'd be a plothole if they did not notify "someone". If that someone (or the chief of the that someone) does not want to disturb Tarquin right now during the festival is a different matter - but given he also has to face torture & death if "things are not in order", I highly doubt that.

Remember that Tarquin is off at the arena. They're more likely to notify the rest of the guard and probably Malack.

[Ancalagon]

Remember that Tarquin is off at the arena. They're more likely to notify the rest of the guard and probably Malack.

One means the other, at least based on our current knowledge so that distinction makes no difference at the moment.

[NerfTW]

They could think "Some dave with wings and glowing eyes took away Tarquin's son. We better tell someone or we get tortured to death in case case it was not right."
That is how military work: Telling your superious frees you from blame and makes it his problems - and the lower you are in rank, the better it works. It's how it is supposed to be.


But the guard specifically acts as though he thinks that's Dave, and that he simply didn't know Dave had wings. We've already seen one clerk that can fly, so the idea that they'd find this normal isn't too far fetched.

Again, I doubt they'll tell anyone, because they think that was a normal guard. No threat was made to Elan, the guard simply insisted on escorting him into the palace by flying. There probably was a real Dave that was killed, with Sabine taking his place.

[Valley]

If they noticed that Elan was being abducted rather than...transported with style...then they already know that he's Tarquin's son and that he wanted to "tell Durkon the Linear Guild is attacking". If they reported to Tarquin, he could seriously mess up Nale's plans.

Of course, that assumes Tarquin is not aware of the plots within his own palace. How do we know Nale is getting away with anything?

[NerfTW]

Of course, that assumes Tarquin is not aware of the plots within his own palace. How do we know Nale is getting away with anything?

Just because Tarquin is genre savvy and concocting a brilliant plan doesn't make him flawless. He patched obvious weaknesses in security (a real world weakness that is very often exploited), that doesn't make him omniscient. Given that we're dealing with two illusionists and a shape shifter, it's believable that Nale is just as clever as Tarquin when it comes to remaining unseen.

Given that Nale's last appearance was a full year ago, Sabine has teleporting/planeshift abilities, and she plus Quarr have extremely powerful benefactors, it's more likely that Nale's plan wasn't just "jump into an unfinished section of the palace and start impersonating people", starting last week. It very likely was a year long infiltration effort from multiple angles.

[Flame of Anor]

Given that Nale's last appearance was a full year ago, Sabine has teleporting/planeshift abilities, and she plus Quarr have extremely powerful benefactors, it's more likely that Nale's plan wasn't just "jump into an unfinished section of the palace and start impersonating people", starting last week. It very likely was a year long infiltration effort from multiple angles.

Multiple needlessly complicated angles. :smallwink:

[Ancalagon]

Again, I doubt they'll tell anyone, because they think that was a normal guard.

I find it unlikely anyone employed as "guard" can be that dense. I find it more unlikely two or so guards as that dense - and then on the same duty.

No, if nothing comes from this, I'll consider this to be some sort of minor screwup (for the sake of a mediocre joke).

[NerfTW]

I find it unlikely anyone employed as "guard" can be that dense. I find it more unlikely two or so guards as that dense - and then on the same duty.

No, if nothing comes from this, I'll consider this to be some sort of minor screwup (for the sake of a mediocre joke).

You do realize we've already seen winged creatures with menial jobs in this kingdom, right? This is a lizard folk area. Odds are the sight of someone with wings doesn't raise any eyebrows, especially since we've already seen one with the fun-tastic job of Bounty Office Clerk and Accountant.

Like I said in my second post, there's the very good chance that Sabine has been in this "Dave" persona for quite a while. And honestly, in an area where people shift around constantly, you're not going to know intimate details of that guy you happen to be stationed with today.

[Gurgeh]

Given that we're dealing with two illusionists and a shape shifter
Just out of interest, who are the "two illusionists"?

Nale specialises in enchantment, and he hasn't really thrown around anything else to speak of. Zz'dtri's only demonstrated non-transmuation spells are Shield and his green lightning. Qarr has only been seen using enchantment and evocation spells (plus his racial Teleport for conjuration, if you want to split hairs). The only other identified members of the Linear Guild are Thog and Yukyuk, whose spellcasting abilities are zero and near-zero, respectively.

I mean, obviously Nale and Qarr and even Z might have the ability to cast useful illusion spells, but it hasn't been demonstrated at all so far.

[Ancalagon]

[QUOTE=NerfTW;11145726]You do realize we've already seen winged creatures with menial jobs in this kingdom, right? This is a lizard folk area. Odds are the sight of someone with wings doesn't raise any eyebrows, especially since we've already seen one with the fun-tastic job of Bounty Office Clerk and Accountant./QUOTE]


Yes, I do.

They know Dave. They did not know he had wings (and he did not a moment before).
Is it normal that guards suddenly carry away people? I think not.

Do the guards realise their life might be in danger should something happen to the Son of Tarquin - who incidentally just dropped his papers, something that is not normal procedure in this Empire?

[the_tick_rules]

They probably will report it to someone.

[Kish]

Just out of interest, who are the "two illusionists"?

Nale specialises in enchantment, and he hasn't really thrown around anything else to speak of. Zz'dtri's only demonstrated non-transmuation spells are Shield and his green lightning.
Something made him look like Ambassador Polonius.

[NerfTW]

Just out of interest, who are the "two illusionists"?


I misremembered Nale's specialty as Illusion instead of Enchantment. Zz'dtri has been using an illusion, so he's the second (well, first, since I messed up on Nale.)

[Jay R]

I misremembered Nale's specialty as Illusion instead of Enchantment. Zz'dtri has been using an illusion, so he's the second (well, first, since I messed up on Nale.)

He's a multiclass fighter/rogue/sorcerer who specializes in enchantment spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html).

[Gurgeh]

Zz'dtri has been using an illusion
Personally, I'd say it was more likely to be Alter Self than Disguise Self...

[Gift Jeraff]

But Alter Self doesn't change clothes. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0538.html)

Though something like Zz'dtri's Greater Alter Self isn't outside the realm of possibility, I guess.

[veti]

My reading of the EoB is that it doesn't encourage independent thinking or initiative among its guards. Sure, Tarquin gives them instruction in common sense (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0766.html), but the flip side of that is, it implies they need that kind of instruction. There are probably stiff (literally) penalties for those who deviate from the manual.

So the question is, whether their instruction/training includes a catch-all clause of the type "if anything occurs that's not covered elsewhere in this manual, notify X at once".

And if so, who is "X"? Is there a proper chain of command? The guards might even think that since Elan already knows about it, and he outranks them all (Tarquin's son), there's nothing more they need to do...

[Narren]

Order of the Stick is a comic with stick figures making fun of D&D rules that evolved into a masterfully woven tale with memorable characters, a rich plot, and wonderful art.

But sometimes....a joke is a joke. No, it doesn't make sense for the guards to be THAT dense. But it's funny. It was two funny lines well delivered by a couple of guards that will probably never be mentioned again. It wasn't integral to the plot, and in this comic, that's ok. I really don't think it needs a logical explanation.

[Gorag]

the guards will report to Tarquin, he will put off his wig and reveal himself as Nale! ... dun dun dunnnnnnn

[Flame of Anor]

the guards will report to Tarquin, he will put off his wig and reveal himself as Nale! ... dun dun dunnnnnnn

...and Tarquin has been impersonating Nale simultaneously? :smallconfused:

[Gorag]

...and Tarquin has been impersonating Nale simultaneously? :smallconfused:

nope - that was sabine - you know she has disguise skills ;)