Speak Language! Do you train it?

[faceroll]

Do your characters ever spend skill points on speak language? Do you ever have problems with understanding what's going on because no one in the party speaks orc or giant? Do you as a DM ever take advantage that no one knows infernal and the cleric didn't bother preparing Tongues?

[Seerow]

In my most recent campaign, the bard in our group invested heavily in speak language, I'm not sure there were more than 1 or 2 languages in the PHB he didn't have by level 5.

Generally though, no.

[Keld Denar]

I started putting a couple ranks in it each level on my Bard when our DM kept insisting that you can't use Diplomacy through a translater. What good is having a +20 mod when the only guy who speaks Elvish has a -1 total bonus?

Also...random side questions...the gentleman in your avatar, is he by any chance wearing a "Made in Alaska" sweat shirt? It looks...familiar.

[Cog]

Not yet, but I have some character builds lined up who might; No, because the DM I was playing under didn't really make use of languages; Yes, very much so - the campaign I'm running depends on cultural differences, and that's a way to reinforce it.

[faceroll]

I started putting a couple ranks in it each level on my Bard when our DM kept insisting that you can't use Diplomacy through a translater. What good is having a +20 mod when the only guy who speaks Elvish has a -1 total bonus?

Oh yeah, that's a great point. How often do you end up using magical solutions? Sometimes, I feel like the slot/spell known for tongues just isn't worth it until you're in the mid levels.


Also...random side questions...the gentleman in your avatar, is he by any chance wearing a "Made in Alaska" sweat shirt? It looks...familiar.

Alaska Grown hoody, but yeah, not surprised you see those in Seattle.


Not yet, but I have some character builds lined up who might; No, because the DM I was playing under didn't really make use of languages; Yes, very much so - the campaign I'm running depends on cultural differences, and that's a way to reinforce it.

I love having the monsters discuss exactly what tactics they're going to use in combat but have the PCs totally mystified. I guess I could give them sense motive checks to get the gist. I'm not sure if anyone in my group has trained sense motive.... Maybe the monk.

[Eldariel]

I always try to learn some languages if I have it in class or have spare points (though latter is rare). And if I'm going to be a spellcaster, I'll learn at least all languages of the things I could plausibly communicate with through magic (generally elemental languages, Sylvan and Celestial/Infernal/Abyssal/Draconic as applicable).

I rarely bother learning the humanoid races' languages other than my character's own (other than Elvish which has enough uses outside discussing with Elves to warrant the investment) outside the free languages, but I often try to learn languages potential enemies are like to use; that information can always come in handy. And if the campaign is heavy on some particular creature type (as is often the case when dealing with a single hostile organization for extended periods of time), I'll probably burn even the 2 points to learn that language.


And yeah, we occasionally have communication issues with all party members not talking the same language or the language used and thus have one player trying to interpret things on the fly; we've also had cases where one player has had to talk some situation through himself, without having tremendous amounts of social skills. This has, unsurprisingly, lead to us trying to acquire at least some social capabilities on all characters. We also usually try to all share one obscure language for secret communication in the presence of others (something to the tune of Aquan or so).

As a DM I always try to bring the different languages to the campaign more heavily (to excuse me to use a more elaborate language system than "Pay 1 - 2 points to learn a language, 2 points to read/write if you can't already"), with various pieces of extra information for various matters available for those who know some language and certain languages being safer than others in certain areas and so on. Then again, I study linguistics so such matters are of interest to me.

[Malimar]

I have hardly ever seen Speak Languages even used at all. So most of my characters put one or two ranks into it at most, if there are languages it would make sense for them to know that they don't have enough bonus languages to know.

That said, Speak Language was one of the many skills my factotum kept max ranks in, just because it fit the character.

[Tancred]

We found ourselves emerging from the Plane of Shadow on the wrong side of Hobgoblin lands, with no teleportation spells of our own, and only a small number of them speaking common.

Everyone got an extra 150gp added to the price tag of their hats, magical solutions all 'round.

If we'd known we were going to need the language? The party bard probably would have spent a skill point, but I think the rest of us would still have upgraded our hats.

And yep, language barriers definitely play a part in our campaign, to good effect.

[Bob the DM]

I always mess with the pc's by using as many different languages as realistically possibly in my games. They also use it to scheme around other npc's when they don't want me to be able to use my dm knowledge against them, or if they want to discuss things at the table without a player of differing alignment's in game knowlege. Making use of many race specific languages is also a great way to increase the fun of your games. One of the most entertaining single encounters was when I ran a campaign which started with the pc's part of a town that was kidnapped by pirate slavers. They were all shipwrecked on an island and had to find a spellbook that was looted by a local goblin tribe (along with the wizard's rod of wonders), for the elderly hermit wizard of the island to cast mend/make whole of the ship fragments so they could all go home. No one spoke goblin, which made for a hilarious attempt at negotiations after the pc's went to the tribe and were captured. Standing before the goblin cheiftain, who was weilding the rod of wonder and using it to aid in his animated speaking style, was too much fun as I wielded a small rod myself, swinging it around, pointing it at them and speaking/screamed giberish at them all the while rolling percentile dice to see if I could hit the 10 percent range to acidentaly set it off. We all agreed that it was the most fun for everyone to role play, although it might have had something to do with the random elephant that appeared out of mid air and flattened the chieftain when it landed.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

With various resources for Comprehend Languages and Tongues... why bother?

[Techsmart]

As a player, I invest lightly in speak language (1 rank a level, sometimes a little more or less). One of our players had the joke of "I speak yes," since he always kept it at max ranks, with high int.
As a DM, I usually prepare my session without regard for what the players speak, or will make very few modifications that might facilitate a translator. If they walk into an orc village, they are gonna hear people speaking orc.One of them may speak draconic or whatever else the party speaks (Some orc villages I make do not speak common), and might serve as a translator, but no freebies. Most areas, excluding dungeons, usually consist of a mostly common-speaking population though.

[Cog]

Just since a couple people have mentioned it now:

There's no such thing as maximum expenditure on Speak Language. The limits for skills are based on ranks, not points, and SL doesn't have ranks.

[Eldariel]

With various resources for Comprehend Languages and Tongues... why bother?

I find it worth consideration on characters who'd have to use magic itemz to access Speak Language/Tongues, since often in the cases where you'd want those languages you may not have access to your magic items.

Also, on mages I tend to learn the summon languages on since it's such a chore having to waste a slot on Tongues when your highest level slots are like 4s (not to mention, it's quite a while before you can keep it up all day and it's definitely not the kinda spell you want to waste a combat action on).

Unsurprisingly, the lower the level, the stronger actually knowing the language is.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I find it worth consideration on characters who'd have to use magic itemz to access Speak Language/Tongues, since often in the cases where you'd want those languages you may not have access to your magic items.

Also, on mages I tend to learn the summon languages on since it's such a chore having to waste a slot on Tongues when your highest level slots are like 4s (not to mention, it's quite a while before you can keep it up all day and it's definitely not the kinda spell you want to waste a combat action on).

Unsurprisingly, the lower the level, the stronger actually knowing the language is.

The only class that has access Speak Languages is Bard... who has both Comprehend Languages and Tongues on his spell list. Even if you don't get it as a Spell Known, there's always wands.

[Cog]

The only class that has access Speak Languages is Bard...
If you ignore the various races, sub levels, variant classes, and non-core classes, anyway.

[Veyr]

I've had a number of characters with double-digit languages. One was a homebrew-fixed Truenamer that received a bonus to Truenaming depending on the number of languages he could speak, though, so he might not count. But I had at least one other who knew every language in the PHB aside from Druidic, and I was working on that when the campaign sadly died.

[slaydemons]

The only class that has access Speak Languages is Bard... who has both Comprehend Languages and Tongues on his spell list. Even if you don't get it as a Spell Known, there's always wands.

unless your a changling sorry had to say it, I actually thought about training that skill every level, but now since my players wont ever dm.... I have to accept being someone who will never be a player

[erikun]

This depends on the character. My dwarven cleric with a focus on earth magic? Sure, he'll pick up Celestial and Terran, even if he needs to spend skill points to do so. My elemental-minded wizard will probably be picking up the four elemental languages, along with Draconic.

On the other hand, most other characters don't bother. 90% of the time, it doesn't come up and we never encounter anything but Common. If it is a campaign where another language is important to know, the character will likely pick it up, but not otherwise.

I actually find myself on the other side of the question: I choose odd languages at creation, or have high INT characters, and so end up with languages that my DM generally doesn't expect. Dwarven fighter with Giant? Gnome druid with Elven and Sylvan? Human wizard with Gnomish? Yes, yes, and yes, and it is very nice when the NPCs give out free information because they think you wouldn't know the language.

[Kantolin]

One amusing 'advantage' to fighters is that they have no skills they're expected to have.

Nobody expects them to climb or jump or swim because it's very reasonable they don't have the skill points for whichever one you're thinking of (or are wearing armour), for example. Whereas when you see a cleric, you figure she has knowledge religion, concentration, and spellcraft (and there is encouragement to do so).

Summarily! A lot of my fighters focus on weird skills, and being a linguist is an amusing option, so yeah - I've had a lot of speak language fighters. ^_^

[navar100]

One or two campaigns ago I might have gained a language, but really as with any skill it's only as important as the DM makes it. Often when there's a language barrier it's just that one time in particular scene then doesn't matter any more. If a language barrier happens again, it's because of a different language. There's generally no need to learn new languages, and often metagame character creation players would diversify their known languages among the characters. It might mean the fighter knows giant and gnomish, but as long as much as possible is covered it's all good.

However, I think there's also real-world logisitics involved. While it makes sense for there to be many languages for various reasons such as race or country, at some point the players in character need to know stuff. Common is D&D's universal translator. Realism has to give way to practicalism. Therefore, all Vulcans, Minbari, and Daleks speak English. Star Wars tries to keep the alien aspect by not having everyone speak English for the audience, but in character someone in the cast understands Hutt, Wookie, Ewok, or whatever.

[Eldariel]

The only class that has access Speak Languages is Bard... who has both Comprehend Languages and Tongues on his spell list. Even if you don't get it as a Spell Known, there's always wands.

With Able Learner, any class can gain them on a 1-for-1 basis. There are, of course, other classes out-of-core that have it in class by default.

[Seharvepernfan]

Speak Language! Do you train it?

heee! (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kwv4qp4v2Q1qzvu53o1_500.png&imgrefurl=http://catherinehepburn.tumblr.com/post/373866264&usg=__8bfpbgnhlusPGBoc2ANc9-yT80s=&h=422&w=500&sz=287&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=M4f6Vu5znES65M:&tbnh=144&tbnw=171&ei=APvpTbGECo2ltwfq3qmgAQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3Denglish%2Bmother****a%2Bdo%2Byou%2Bsp eak%2Bit%253F%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26biw%3D1259% 26bih%3D599%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=622&page=1&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:14,s:0&tx=142&ty=66)

HERP DERP HERP DERP

[ShneekeyTheLost]

If you ignore the various races, sub levels, variant classes, and non-core classes, anyway.

I'm not aware of any races, sub levels, or variant classes which have Speak Language, and the only non-core class which has access to it is Factorum, which *ALSO* has access to Comprehend Languages and Tongues.

Able Learner only allows you to continue to have a skill as a class skill when you multiclass out, which means you need to take one of the two classes first. Which means you STILL have access to them.

[Eldariel]

Able Learner only allows you to continue to have a skill as a class skill when you multiclass out, which means you need to take one of the two classes first. Which means you STILL have access to them.

What? No. It allows you to buy cross-class skills at the rate of 1 point for 1 rank, instead of 2 points for 1. Does nothing about the cap O.o Only reason it interacts with multiclassing is because multiclassing allows you to keep the skill cap but would force you to buy skills at 2-for-1 rate outside your class list; these two combined remove the cap and allow buying skills at 1-for-1 rate.

EDIT: Though it doesn't affect the cost of buying a language, apparently. Lolfineprint.

EDIT#2: Other classes with Speak Language in class:
Cloistered Cleric [UA]
Urban Druid [DR317]
Janissary Fighter [DR334]
Planar Ranger [UA]
Beguiler [PHBII]
Marshal [Mini]
Scout [CAdv]
Spellthief [CAdv]

Just off the top of my head. There's probably others. And that's not counting Prestige Classes. And seriously, Bard is cramped in terms of spells known. Would you really spend one on Tongues rather than learning couple of languages? Same with Factotum.

EDIT#3: And PRCs with Speak Language are incredibly common. Arcane Trickster, Dragon Disciple, Loremaster and Thaumaturgist only out of Core have it. I can't even begin to imagine how many non-Core prestige classes get it.

[Mad Gene Vane]

With various resources for Comprehend Languages and Tongues... why bother?

(1) No spell caster has Tongues or Comprehend Languages preparied
(2) You end up capturing a bad guy who only speaks Under Common, for example, and no one has any ranks in languages and you can't interrogate him (her).
(3) Bad guys speak a different language than your group speaks - Goblin, Orc, Infernal, etc. - and you intercept written communications in that language and need to figure out what the message says.

My general view on role playing is (a) you can never have too many hit points and (b) you should always know as many languages as possible - that is realistic for your character to know, i.e. a 5th level barbarian or fighter probably shouldn't be knowing celestial, infernal and abyssal - because you never know when a DM is going to throw out a group of bad guys, who don't communicate in Common, Dwarvish, or Elvish, which are the most common languages PC's would know by default.

[Yuki Akuma]

The only class that has access Speak Languages is Bard...

Also Aristocrat, Factotum and Truenamer.

Also anyone who happens to be an Illumian.

[Cog]

The list of classes and races has already been gathered, so I'll just confirm that.

Able Learner actually doesn't work, but not for the reason suggested. You don't have to have had it as a class skill to gain the 1-for-1 benefit of the feat, just the max ranks, and as noted Speak doesn't have ranks; however, the feat has a specific exception for Speak for some reason.

[Volthawk]

I don't put ranks into it. If I want lots of languages, I'll just take Master Linguist instead. Sure, needs a high enough Int mod for the 4 languages, but I find the guys with lots of languages that I make tend to have high Int anyway.

[Pigkappa]

Do your characters ever spend skill points on speak language?

Usually not. Once, I was playing the crappiest bard I could make in a campaign and spent several skill points on Aquan, Terran and similar languages, but I never met anyone who spoke those languages :smallfrown:.


Do you as a DM ever take advantage that no one knows infernal and the cleric didn't bother preparing Tongues?

Yes, of course. And I also think that any group should have at least 1 scroll of Comprehend Languages available (Tongues is more expensive, but that could be a better choice at high levels).

[Greenish]

If you ignore the various races, sub levels, variant classes, and non-core classes, anyway.I'm a big fan of changeling rogue linguists. Changelings get the skill, the sub levels get 10+int skill points.

It does help to impersonate someone to speak the same language. :smalltongue:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Or, instead of skill points, you can spend money...


Tongues can be made permanent with a permanency spell.

[Yuki Akuma]

And then lose it to the first mook to cast dispel magic. Great plan!

Skill points also work in antimagic fields.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

And then lose it to the first mook to cast dispel magic. Great plan!

Skill points also work in antimagic fields.

Heh, considering you have minimum CL of 11, it's not going to get dispelled all that easy. You'll need GDM to pull it off reliably. By which time, you've got many other resources for conversation. Plus, if they're trying to dispel your ability to talk to people? Someone's got their priorities wrong.

Also, how often do you actually *FIND* yourself in an AMF *AND* needing to interrogate someone, at the same time?

Remember the cardinal rule: never spend character resources on that which can be obtained by WBL.

[RndmNumGen]

Occasionally I'll invest points in Speak Lanugage in 3.5, when I think it's important to know a language. I love the Linguistics skill in Pathfinder though(Yay Forgery!) and will usually max that out if I have a high INT and don't need other skills more.

[Eldariel]

Heh, considering you have minimum CL of 11, it's not going to get dispelled all that easy. You'll need GDM to pull it off reliably. By which time, you've got many other resources for conversation. Plus, if they're trying to dispel your ability to talk to people? Someone's got their priorities wrong.

The problem isn't them dispelling it intentionally, the problem is you getting hit with a targeted GDM to dispel your buffs and it getting dispelled. I'm personally not a big fan of permanencied spell; they have a bigger risk of being money down the drain than most magic items (though of course, every magic item carries the risk but the things that threaten those tend to be of higher level).


Also, how often do you actually *FIND* yourself in an AMF *AND* needing to interrogate someone, at the same time?

Dead Magic Zones and Wild Magic Zones (common in many notable settings, and omnipresent in Realms) are areas where you might need to go especially if looking for some ancient items of power that have yet to be reclaimed, and where mundane communication is one of the most important weapons in your inventory.

[Rejakor]

I was playing a devout fire worshiper (evoker wizard industrialist/priest of fire/druidic worshiper of the destructive aspect of nature) at a DnD-based LARP, and got brought along on a way-above-my-pay-grade elemental summoning to speak to a fire elemental head honcho because I was the only person who had a non-magical way of speaking Ignan in the whole damn LARP and they didn't want to risk a tongues spell going awry, so they needed a translator.