Hybrid Rogue/Sorcerer questions

[Jekyll]

So, I'm building a Rogue/Sorcerer Hybrid, with the intent of abusing the Sorcerous Blade Channeling feat. This feat, in case you don't want to look it up, lets me cast Sorcerer spells as melee attacks, so long as you use a dagger to do it. Makes sense to combine it with a Rogue, yeah?

Anyway, onto my questions!

Firstly, what Sorcerer Soul should I take? I've already ruled out the Dragon and Wild Souls, because all they give me is a resistance and a penetration. Storm and Cosmic Souls, however, grant me additional benefits, both of which seem equally useful to me.

With Storm Soul, I can reactively drop my thunder and lightning resistances to gain a temporary +4 to all defenses - quite a good benefit, especially for a character who's going to be in melee with cloth armor. Additionally, I gain access to the Eye of the Storm effect Storm Sorcerers can apply to some spells - with that, I could almost have a permanent area of damage around me all the time. Sounds fun!

With Soul of the Cosmic Cycle, though, I can do a number of things depending on my phase. In Sun Phase, anything nearby me is taking radiant damage every turn. In Moon Phase, I gain an AC bonus for each adjacent enemy. In Star Phase, I can teleport myself to safety if an attack misses me - or teleport myself adjacent to a ranged threat and start to beat it up. The obvious benefits to this are that since I'll be in melee, I'll often have a few enemies around me taking damage or buffing my defenses. I also gain the Cosmic Magic bonuses to some spells, which varies from spell to spell.


That out of the way, my next question is this: what are some of the best ways to buff my defenses? I'll be stuck in cloth armor, so anything I can do to buff this up is ideal. Unarmored Agility is the obvious choice as far as feats go - that +2 will be invaluable. Additionally, I've decided to be a Revenant as my race, since they're notoriously hard to kill. My race will probably change if I opt for Soul of the Cosmic Cycle, though. I'd like something with the +Strength I'd need.

Anyway, thanks in advance for the help!

[Fox Box Socks]

Wild Soul and Storm Soul get their bonus damage from Dex, and Cosmic Soul and Dragon Soul get their bonus damage from Str. Since you're Rogue/Sorcerer, you should be choosing between Wild and Storm, since you're going to be pumping Dex for your Rogue powers anyway.

Of the two, I find Storm Soul to be the most useful.

[Reverent-One]

So, I'm building a Rogue/Sorcerer Hybrid, with the intent of abusing the Sorcerous Blade Channeling feat. This feat, in case you don't want to look it up, lets me cast Sorcerer spells as melee attacks, so long as you use a dagger to do it. Makes sense to combine it with a Rogue, yeah?

There's a key issue you need to be aware of, a hybird rogue only gets sneak attack on rogue attack powers, so even sorcerous blade channeling won't let you add sneak attack onto your sorceror attacks.

[Jekyll]

Yeah, I know about the Sneak Attack limitation. I'll still have a bunch of Rogue powers to apply them to, so I'm not too worried about it. The primary draw of the build is being able to stab people with lightning, basically.

@Fox Box Socks - I was leaning Storm because of that, but I wasn't sure if the benefits provided by Cosmic would be worth a little bit of MAD.

[Fox Box Socks]

@Fox Box Socks - I was leaning Storm because of that, but I wasn't sure if the benefits provided by Cosmic would be worth a little bit of MAD.
The short answer is "no". MAD is harder to manage in 4e without items that give enhancement bonuses. You get +1 to two stats at levels ending in 4 and 8, and you'll almost always want to be putting that towards the same two stats.

Since you'll be balancing between Dex and Cha anyway, effects that key off Dex mean more to you, since you won't have to invest your precious stat upgrades on things that don't affect your options on a round by round basis.

[Jekyll]

The short answer is "no". MAD is harder to manage in 4e without items that give enhancement bonuses. You get +1 to two stats at levels ending in 4 and 8, and you'll almost always want to be putting that towards the same two stats.

Since you'll be balancing between Dex and Cha anyway, effects that key off Dex mean more to you, since you won't have to invest your precious stat upgrades on things that don't affect your options on a round by round basis.

Cheers, Storm it is then.

Any advice for increasing my AC at all? Or is Unarmored Agility and the Storm Soul reactive ability basically my only option?

[tcrudisi]

Considering that you are wanting to stab things with lightning, I'd say that Storm soul makes the most sense.

There are quite a few ways to increase your AC but they are dependent upon your starting level.

Just a few off the top of my head:
Unarmored Agility or Leather Armor Proficiency
Rhythm Blade wrist razors (level 3 magic item)
Helm of Able Defense (level 14 magic item)
Boots of the Fencing Master (level 7 magic item)
Amulet of Elusive Prey (level 14/19/24/29 magic item)

etc etc.

[Kurald Galain]

So, I'm building a Rogue/Sorcerer Hybrid, with the intent of abusing the Sorcerous Blade Channeling feat. This feat, in case you don't want to look it up, lets me cast Sorcerer spells as melee attacks, so long as you use a dagger to do it. Makes sense to combine it with a Rogue, yeah?
Well, you won't be getting sneak attack on those powers, nor the rogue's +1 with daggers, so I'm wondering what you're really getting out of that half of the hybrid. Sorcerer-multiclass-rogue makes more sense to me.

[Jekyll]

Well, you won't be getting sneak attack on those powers, nor the rogue's +1 with daggers, so I'm wondering what you're really getting out of that half of the hybrid. Sorcerer-multiclass-rogue makes more sense to me.

Nothing I've read indicates that I wouldn't get the +1 with daggers. I have to spend a feat to get it, sure, but why wouldn't I be allowed to apply it to the attack?

[Kurald Galain]

Nothing I've read indicates that I wouldn't get the +1 with daggers. I have to spend a feat to get it, sure, but why wouldn't I be allowed to apply it to the attack?

Because you get only one Hybrid Talent feat, and I was under the impression that you were going to spend it on a sorcerer soul feature.

[Jekyll]

Because you get only one Hybrid Talent feat, and I was under the impression that you were going to spend it on a sorcerer soul feature.

I misunderstood Hybrid Talents, then. I read it as being a feat you could take multiple times.

That buggers the whole thing right up, then. I'm a bit shoddy on the Multiclassing rules in 4.0 - I can take as many Rogue Multiclass Feats as I want, right?

[Dimers]

I misunderstood Hybrid Talents, then. I read it as being a feat you could take multiple times.

Once under normal conditions, and you get a second one if you make a hybrid paragon instead of taking a paragon path. No more than that.


That buggers the whole thing right up, then. I'm a bit shoddy on the Multiclassing rules in 4.0 - I can take as many Rogue Multiclass Feats as I want, right?

Sorry, that's a negative as well. You can take each rogue multiclass feat once, per the usual rules for taking feats. Many of them qualify you for other rogue-specific feats, though.

And if your mind works the same way as mine, here's the answer to the next question: No, you can't be a hybrid rogue/sorcerer who multiclasses into rogue. :smallwink:

[Kurald Galain]

I misunderstood Hybrid Talents, then. I read it as being a feat you could take multiple times.
Sorry, but no. In 4E, you can take any feat only once unless the feat itself explicitly says otherwise.


That buggers the whole thing right up, then. I'm a bit shoddy on the Multiclassing rules in 4.0 - I can take as many Rogue Multiclass Feats as I want, right?
Well, you only get to swap three powers (one each of at-will, encounter, daily) for the cost of a feat each. The main feat of interest is Sneak of Shadows, which gives you sneak attack dice once per encounter.

[Reluctance]

"I stab you with lightning" is cool, but at heart, all SBC does is let you use a ranged power when you want to hit a melee baddie without eating the OA. If you want to play a battle sorcerer, first you'll probably prefer blasts/bursts over ranged powers, and second Staff Expertise has the same effect only better.

If you're willing to burn the feats on this, I'd be curious how a rogue MC sorcerer would fit the concept. You'd have the range when you needed it, plus the ability to simply stab with it when you don't.

[Epinephrine]

Sorry, but no. In 4E, you can take any feat only once unless the feat itself explicitly says otherwise.

To expand on this, you can get a second hybrid talent at 11th if you go with a paragon hybrid instead of a paragon path, can make some nice combos that way, though you give up a lot by not having a paragon path.

[Jekyll]

"I stab you with lightning" is cool, but at heart, all SBC does is let you use a ranged power when you want to hit a melee baddie without eating the OA. If you want to play a battle sorcerer, first you'll probably prefer blasts/bursts over ranged powers, and second Staff Expertise has the same effect only better.

If you're willing to burn the feats on this, I'd be curious how a rogue MC sorcerer would fit the concept. You'd have the range when you needed it, plus the ability to simply stab with it when you don't.

I didn't think about doing a Rogue MC'd to Sorcerer. Arcane Prodigy is the obvious MC Feat to take, and maybe Sorcerous Power at Paragon. SBC is pretty integral to the concept. The big question is which Sorcerer powers to take with the power exchange Feats, and which Rogue Build fits this the best.

[MeeposFire]

I misunderstood Hybrid Talents, then. I read it as being a feat you could take multiple times.

That buggers the whole thing right up, then. I'm a bit shoddy on the Multiclassing rules in 4.0 - I can take as many Rogue Multiclass Feats as I want, right?

You can only multiclass in one other class but you can take all the various feats for the same class if you really wanted. Though I should warn you that you don't get much for doing that normally.

[Fox Box Socks]

You might be better served with Sorcerer MC'd to Rogue. A human sorcerer can start with both Sorcerous Blade Channeling and Sneak of Shadows, letting you blast dudes with lightning, stab dudes with lightning, and sneakily stab dudes with lightning. You'll be a little squishy until you can pick up Unarmored Agility at level 2, but Storm Soul should be enough to keep you alive until then.

[hoff]

You could ask your GM to allow you to buy Hybrid talent option twice. Explain to him that this is not some kind of munchkin plot to rule the gametable, just something to make your build viable. Most hybrids need some houseruling from the gm in order to be as powerful as a non-hybrid build.

[DragonBaneDM]

You could ask your GM to allow you to buy Hybrid talent option twice. Explain to him that this is not some kind of munchkin plot to rule the gametable, just something to make your build viable. Most hybrids need some houseruling from the gm in order to be as powerful as a non-hybrid build.

I'm very much in agreement with this. Unless the rest of your party has trouble optimizing, you're build probably won't be the strongest at the table. And if they ARE good at optimizing, you'll need a hand from the other side of the screen.